True Colours

[polecat]

Right ladies and gents, I'm offering 3/2 on BKKjames and 7/5 on Ladyheather. Who wants a bit.

(You hang onto your money G54 )

[bkkjames]

Right ladies and gents, I'm offering 3/2 on BKKjames and 7/5 on Ladyheather. Who wants a bit.

(You hang onto your money G54 )

I take those odds and say that I will nick it in extra time.

LH (not to be confused with lufthansa), respectfully, if you have never been in the shoes of the OP, how then can you possibly be in a position to criticise his actions.

I once went to work with wearing a pair of socks that didn't match. You know what I did. I logged onto TV and forgot about it.

I didn't try to steal someone else's shoes or socks when they were not looking. That would be wrong. Trusting your instict has been, in my experience at least, a very good self preservation tactic.

Once you have combed through all this deep material and analyzed it, please feel free to report back to the class on your findings.

I suspect, that if you spend too much times examining the shoes of others, you will find that its far more pleasant to examine your own first.

[LadyHeather]

No worries BkkJames, I am off to have a life off Thai Visa, I might suggest you try the same

[JimSiam]

Right ladies and gents, I'm offering 3/2 on BKKjames and 7/5 on Ladyheather. Who wants a bit.

(You hang onto your money G54 )

I'll take some of that action, my money on LH

[sbk]

Now now boys and girls, drop the bickering please. I am sure the OP would rather you discuss his topic than read this.

[scottyd]

LadyHeather is just a feminist that wants greater power, not equality.

The OP and Bkkjames obviousley know the score.

[bkkjames]

Right ladies and gents, I'm offering 3/2 on BKKjames and 7/5 on Ladyheather. Who wants a bit.

(You hang onto your money G54 )

I'll take some of that action, my money on LH

Too late, the books are closed. LH has left the building. Too bad, i was beginning to get aroused.

Sorry SBK, back to the OP, good work mate. your insticts hold you in fine shape.

[t.s]

Right ladies and gents, I'm offering 3/2 on BKKjames and 7/5 on Ladyheather. Who wants a bit?

(You hang onto your money G54 )

um, that would be james.

[polecat]

Come back! Come back!

OK, no refunds. sorry. TV rules

[Maigo6]

Now now boys and girls, drop the bickering please. I am sure the OP would rather you discuss his topic than read this.

He's left the building already.

[Maizefarmer]

OK, some will gloat, that is part and parcel of posting here, but maybe it will help one other Farang to take time and be careful.

Well, after this last 3 weeks I now understand the g/f true colour. Not Yellow or Red, but the colour of money.

She married at 16. 1 baby 18 mnth. Now divorced. Works factory 7k Baht mth (now) previously at a shop owned by cousin 4k Baht mth.

4/5 weeks ago a sister in law arrives from Phuket with her Thai husband. Seems the restaurant she worked at has closed. She & husband have come back to live with her father. Now the fun begins to end our relationship.

Since early last year the g/f and I have been great. Some minor problems but that is to be expected. She talked of the future and it looked rosy. I was happy to accept a future together, but in a couple of years, not now to buy a house, land, car etc.

In December she started work at the Sugar Factory. I went to England for my Non O visa. When I came back all was OK. Same as before. Loving and romantic. The kisses and cuddles and romance were there until 3 weeks ago. About 4 weeks ago she tells me she is working so hard she now does not have time to see me much. Seems she is now so tired and working so hard. Works, goes house mother, sleeps. Sees me for a couple of hours for 1 day.

One Sunday I take her home in the car and she says 'I no have money, Teerak.' As it happens, my wallet is in the house, not in the car. I cannot give her any. She is not happy, but what can I do? Okay, I do give her some money each week but not a lot. She does have her wages.

Monday morning she phones me. Asks me not to forget milk for the baby, pampers and food ( I usually get these every week. It is no problem).

In the next breath she asks why she has to work at the Sugar factory. Why will I not marry her?

She works at the sugar factor because, in her words last November, she wants to work there. She likes to work there. Does so every year. I cannot persuade her to stay working at her cousins shop. As for marriage, I refuse to pay 6 Baht gold the mother wants for the privelege. There are no guarantees she will stay married and at a cost of near 250,000 Baht (gold 6 Baht + same in cash + ancillaries) I am unwilling to marry her right now. Tell her I will not buy a wife. That went dow well LOL.

I am willing to help, but not pay for everything, surely this is a 'partnership?' Not a one way street.

On her asking me again she why she has to work Factory Sugar. I tell her she can go back to work at her cousins shop and I will help support her and the baby. Then I asked how much she would want / need to stop working at the factory and return to the shop. Answer? 20 - 30 k Baht a month!! This for a lady who earns 7k a mth for the time the factory is open - 4 months a year or so.

I refuse.

Now things become difficult. The winning lottery ticket I have worth only 4k is 'stolen' next day from her handbag. Not exactly high value, agreed. Coincidence?

Now I hear she is too tired to see me. She is sick. Grandfather also now sick. She coughs and sniffles on the phone a lot.

I insist she sees me if we are to stay together. Twice a week is OK if she is tired. I feel that is reasonable. I get once a week, Sunday, the day before the milk and stuff for the baby are due and then I see her for maybe 2 hours. Yes I am suspicious.

Onto Valentine's Day. I do not see her. nor the next day. She is too tired. Wonderful. So the gold I have bought for her, I do not give her. She tells me on 15th, 'Every day for us is Valentine's Day.' Hmmm. Yet the week before she was Ok and not too tired to go to her Cousin's birthday do, but was too tired to see me.

Since Valentine's day I have seen her twice. She is on the phone to me every day 2 / 3 times a day. Always complaining she is tired, often has flu, a bad cold, sick. The dust at the factory is bad, I understand that. Yet always stating love etc.

We had made now a new arrangement to see each other Sunday / Wednesday until the factory closes in April. Sunday was good. Wednesday? She is, erm, sick.

Onto yesterday, Thursday. A phone call at 8 p.m. She is coughing badly, nose sniffing. Sounds so tired. She is off home from work to go to bed. Every night before she goes to sleep I get a call. Not last night! I send an SMS asking where she is, is she at her cousins new shop that opened last night? (This was pure guesswork).

SMS comes back at 10 p.m.. Teerak, I go work shop cousin. Family say I have go help. I work also 3 a.m. help cousin.

But she is sick. She is really very tired (as per the phone call 2 hours earlier). Yet able to work at the shop after 12 hours at the factory and then to start again at the shop at 3 a.m. Then to work at the factory 1 p.m. today until 8 a.m. tomorrow. ???

I drove to the shop last night. There she is in new uniform. Looks fit, not sick. No sniffy nose. No cough. Does not look tired. Looks her same beautiful self. Let's say, I am not happy LOL.

I ask for the key for the motorbike that is in my name. Get the key and walk out of the shop. I have had enough. Now I have the motorbike. She is shamed in front of friends and family that I have taken it back.

Today.

Phone call. Why I have work factory? Why you no make marry? Why you no give I 20 - 30k Baht a month so we can live same man + wife? I have friend Chiang Mai. She have Farang he make marry after he know friend I for 3 weeks.

(He is a fool, I think, and say so - but not really believeing it is true). When I try to explain that I want to know her a long time before we marry she is silent. Then repeats herself on money, factory etc.

Also now she is shamed that I took away the motorbike I 'gave' her. ( I kept the bike in my name as she requested it after only a short time together and I was being careful. Told her she can have it if we are still together in a year).

Now she tells me that if we get back together I now have to buy a new motorbike and put it in her name. (No chance).

It goes to show it takes time for true colours to shine through - regards the 20-30k a month. Her being too 'tired' to see me was, I feel, to apply pressure to get me to give in to her demands?

Yet I cannot help but feel she does love me and has been misguided.

Why give a lady so much money a month? 4 to 5 times what she earns. 7 times what she earns at her cousin's shop. No middle ground. Now not happy that I help support the baby and give her money each week since December + she has her wages. Before she was always borrowing off her mother and says her mother gave her 15k a month - something I find hard to believe.

Seems to me that all this started since the sister in law came up from Phuket. Maybe with lavish ideas of Farang and money etc. I will never know for sure. I only know it was all good before that.

I have listened to others who say take your time before marrying a Thai lady. Make sure of her. Wait a couple of years. Seems sensible advice. I am glad I listened, waited and was cautious.

OK, rant over. Sorry it was a long one. Now I'm back on the market for another lady LOL.

Missus Maizefarmer (the wife) says: "will they ever learn ..... will they ever".

Good ... you've learn't your lesson now have you?

[jubby]

6 baht gold plus extrasfor a thai girl who has a kid at 16,no way,smell the coffee mate.

Around here the parents would be glad if you took her off their hands for FREE. She wants 30K a month spending money , and you see her once a week to provide for the Baby. Wow, Consider yourself very very lucky for engaging the old grey matter.

Now take a long hard look at yourself , take a reality check, and learn. ..... Unless you ARE an 'Hansome Man' offcourse ;-)

[Samuian]

20-30.000 is the usual "fee" the bar-girlz asking... it's top money!

How come she know?

new trend is for freelanceers to have a job, anything, as it is for "cover" - "never been there, never done that"...

they will convince anyone - NOT everyone! - that they aren't from the redlight....even look down and make bad coments about bar girls - tell you on the streets, in shopping malls, anywhere - who is a bar girl and who isn't.... well, well, well - much, much money and a very, very good life is the result - who wouldn't?

[dbrenn]

Sorry if it's too deep for you BkkJames, but it just seems patently obvious to me that if you treat someone like something to be used and then thrown away, easily replaced, then the only people you will attract are the ones who figure its ok to take you for whatever they can get.

Correct.

In Thailand, as in any other country, a relationship that goes the distance involves sharing. If one partner through good fortune has far more wealth than the other, it is unreasonable for the richer partner to pretend to be a pauper and treat his mate as such, as this will be viewed as lack of commitment and as conservation of assets to keep options open for future conquests. In the western world, you don't see a man who earns much more than his wife expect her to remain poor either, and vice versa.

The girl and her family in this case obviously think that the OP is using his poorer partner temporarily, and is not willing to invite her into his life, with all the sacrifices that might entail. The lady withdrawing and being perpetually busy means that she is about to give up on the OP and dump him.

To put it bluntly, you can only drink the milk for so long before you are expected to buy the cow. In Thailand this period of time before a man is expected to make a commitment is generally shorter than in the west, particularly at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, and especially if the relationship is sexual. Now if the OP doesn't like the idea of hitching up with a girl who has a child, or if he just doesn't like her enough, then he should end it rather than stringing out the agony.

Edited February 27, 2009 by dbrenn

[scottyd]

Don't know about you guys, but when dating, the girl is not entitled to half of my shit, and she definatley will not be getting a wage from me, and even more definatley will not be stopping work to sit on her arse just because I can "afford" to. No no no, children you have got it all wrong.

This is a relationship, not sponsor a child.

Yes when i'm dating, I LIKE to pay for things, like meals, cinema, pretty much if she is out with me, I LIKE to pay for her, but in no way am I OBLIGED to pay for her regardless of her financial situation. If she ever offers to pay, I let her because that shows the relationship is 2 ways, not 1.

[eek]

Correct.

In Thailand, as in any other country, a relationship that goes the distance involves sharing. If one partner through good fortune has far more wealth than the other, it is unreasonable for the richer partner to pretend to be a pauper and treat his mate as such, as this will be viewed as lack of commitment and as conservation of assets to keep options open for future conquests. In the western world, you don't see a man who earns much more than his wife expect her to remain poor either, and vice versa.

The girl and her family in this case obviously think that the OP is using his poorer partner temporarily, and is not willing to invite her into his life, with all the sacrifices that might entail. The lady withdrawing and being perpetually busy means that she is about to give up on the OP and dump him.

To put it bluntly, you can only drink the milk for so long before you are expected to buy the cow. In Thailand this period of time before a man is expected to make a commitment is generally shorter than in the west, particularly at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, and especially if the relationship is sexual. Now if the OP doesn't like the idea of hitching up with a girl who has a child, or if he just doesn't like her enough, then he should end it rather than stringing out the agony.

That was my thoughts too. Seems like normal female behavour (imo). A woman who doesnt feel she is getting respect and commitment after a period of time will begin to pull away. This is also a mans cue to hopefully finally realise she is worth the commitment, doesnt want her out of his life, so will finally take more concrete decisions. If he doesnt, then she will realise that he doesnt value her enough, so will begin to move on with her life.

[jubby]

Normal behaviour ladies ? . Ok I can see there's the possibility She was moving away from the relationship. But its not a Normal relationship is it ? or have we all been here too long.

Why I have work factory? Why you no make marry? Why you no give I 20 - 30k Baht a month so we can live same man + wife?

The Guy was being a bit cautious for obvious reasons. Good on him.

I'll give you the 'sharing' thing, but I've never been expected to give any of my ex girlfriends 30K a month and 250K in Gold.

.............. Not that I could anyway

[eek]

I meant normal female behaviour in regards to the pulling away. As for the money stuff, well I dont have any personal experience of it, so I cant really comment on that. The things I have written are just tying to offer another side to "shes a gold-digger, dump her" style posts. If she is normally a lovely girl to him, then maybe her sudden change in behaviour and demands about money and marriage are due to her sister having recently moved in and her and the family bending her ear. Maybe they are telling her to push the topic or find another guy. Maybe they are telling her the guy doesnt care enough about her because he isnt committing or giving money. I just dont think the whole thing is black and white. (Also if there is a huge age difference, that puts another slant on things too.) Also, i think that there are some Thai lady/Western male relationships that evolve around money and status symbols. So, if his lady has been seeing a lot of that around, it may make her feel that she isnt valued by him. (Im not saying its right to compare relationships, im just saying maybe she is).

Only the OP can really think it all through and decide about it, but as he asked for opinions, I think its a good idea that he gets some that offer a balanced opinion and some food for thought.

Edited February 27, 2009 by eek

[Maigo6]

Amazing how we all get into the nitty gritty of the OP, analyzing this that and the other about 2 people who may or may not even exist except in the mind of some troll who's probably sitting back gloating with a beer in his hand..

The only person who don't seem interested is the guy that posted this thread.

[CrossBones]

Same old... same old

YAAAAAWWN

[jubby]

Its certainly a balanced view Eek and I'm sure its appreciated even if he his a Troll. Maigo6 has spoken and he/she does have a nose for sniffing said creatures out. There's so many obviously wrong relationships in my Village and local area that I tend to see things Black and white.

Times are hard Eek, If I came calling with 250K in gold and 30K a month for life would you think about it ?

[Birdman]

So many posts, topics and threads about similar issues on TV since years.

All the answers are there.

If op has not got it yet, he is one of the brainless types, having fun to post something just for recognising that...called a troll

...nothing more than a baby crying for mama, 'cause inability of inspiration...

unfortunate a looser

[t.s]

So many posts, topics and threads about similar issues on TV since years.

All the answers are there.

If op has not got it yet, he is one of the brainless types, having fun to post something just for recognising that...called a troll

...nothing more than a baby crying for mama, 'cause inability of inspiration...

unfortunate a looser

poor birdman, it seems you have lost your grain of salt. i hope you find it soon.

by the way, it's loser for future reference.

[Birdman]

So many posts, topics and threads about similar issues on TV since years.

All the answers are there.

If op has not got it yet, he is one of the brainless types, having fun to post something just for recognising that...called a troll

...nothing more than a baby crying for mama, 'cause inability of inspiration...

unfortunate a looser

poor birdman, it seems you have lost your grain of salt. i hope you find it soon.

by the way, it's loser for future reference.

I know you now, t.s. and I can tell, you are wrong again. I was on your side already...

[G54]

May i ask how long you have been dating her? Sounds like it has been about a year? If that is the case, she may just be fed up now that you are not making a commitment to her. She may be being asked by friends and family about when she is going to get married, and feeling the pressure and shame. Also, as she is dating a farang, she may be being asked why she isnt contributing more financially to the family, and feeling shame on that part too.

I do think it is was wrong of her to ask you to pay around 30k baht when she is only earning 7k, but I imagine that might be because of her family pressures and them nagging her. I agree that part shouldnt be tolerated.

I think all the sniffles and overacting is because she is feeling very sad and feels she is being strung along when she wants some security of commitment. After a while most women of all cultures and background want to feel they have commitment.

Taking away the bike like that must have caused her a lot of hurt, especially the way you did it (in front of others).

Only you really know about your relationship..if its worth a commitment or not. But, from what you say, it doesnt really sound to me like she is only after money.

eek

About 9 months. Marriage was raised after about a month, by the mother and her demand for gold. No chance of that. It takes time to get to know any woman + vice versa.

The sniffles and the bad cough were allegedly flu / cold etc.

Yes, I did cause a lot of hurt to take the bike as I did. Not intentional, I was also hurt and angry when I saw her in the shop looking so fit and definitely not tired. Beautiful as ever also.

She has made the bed, or unmade it, shall I say.

No, not only after money, I will accept that. I also have to accept I cannot go on with deceit and with that sort of acrimony in the background. She needs to decide what she wants (wanted) for the future. She had already told mother to lighten up last year. But now? Well maybe the sis in law has more sway. I do not know. Maybe more tales of 'Farang Money' that sound real to the ex g/f.

Our loss - hers, the babys and mine - is my overall feeling.

[thaiwanderer]

To the OP you say you were paying her. What do you expect when she wants more? Her 'true colours' were known from the start you just balked at paying the revised price. Everything is a negotiation.

Learn from it (but not too much!). Good luck.

[G54]

No, I have not left the building, I am about to. Sh*t, shower n shave time then off out to the pub.

First, though :-

For those who have been and are being constructive and supportive. Thanks. Nice to know there are good, sensible people out there

Ahhh, Maigo6. So incisive

I have dated Thai ladies from 46 down to 22. Believe it or not, the younger ones have been more honest overall and a hel_l of a lot more fun LOL. Money? Well I do know many an older Thai lady who would happily ravage the bank account and a lot faster. At least that has been my experience so far. As to age. I find, her, age does not matter that much. If the younger lady is getting support they seem happy until someone comes along and starts the knife twisting into the ATM slot.

Yes, I feel bad about the break up but I had to do something. I refuse to keep chasing shadows. I will not be held to ransom also. I tried to compromise and that failed. A few years down the line and a solid committment and I believe I would have started to sort a house and land for the future for the baby, her and I. Under the current financial climate that is a no-no.

As it is, yes, I will need to start again. Wiser, tighter fisted, more wary.

A disposable item, LH, like the pampers? I don't think so. It took 4 weeks or so to reach my decision. After many attempts at compromise. How long do you want me to hang around waiting? 6 months? A year?

Misterman21 Get real. The future is what counts. Not just now because someone is telling her of all the sad fools who pay a fortune for a bit of 'love'. If you are happy to give a lady 20 - 30k a month, go ahead. Makes me laugh to think about it. What happened to reality?

And for others thinking of BG's. No, she isn't. I do have doubts about the sis in law though.

[Sabum]

I just wanna beat my head against the wall..... mother demanded money for marriage? MARRIAGE TO A NON VIRGIN WITH A CHILD ALREADY BY ANOTHER MAN?!?!?!?! Pure insanity, the going rate for a woman with a child is average ZILCHOMUNDO!

This is just one of the amazing things Ive read in your report that astounds me. Something you haven't fessed up to is the fact that you are old and she is a teenager.... and you make her work in a factory? I'm at a loss, I would never pay a woman to be my girlfriend... UNLESS I WAS OLD AND UGLY AND SHE WAS A TEEN! Then I would happily accept my situation and pay the dam_n money and never for one second get all uppity and self righteous about the obvious financial arrangement that is my relationship. What a fool. YOU'RE ALL FOOLS! God these nonstop threads of utter retardedness never stop do they?

Can't believe I actually agree with Maigo, now I want to cry.

[G54]

To the OP you say you were paying her. What do you expect when she wants more? Her 'true colours' were known from the start you just balked at paying the revised price. Everything is a negotiation.

Learn from it (but not too much!). Good luck.

Sorry, but there is a BIG difference between give and support.

Now, pub time.

[eek]

Maybe a bit of time away from each other to think things through clearly might be good? You sound like you are hurting and that you did hope things would work.

Also, the little i know of Thai culture, confrontation with family members isnt an easy one. I think it will be hard for her to prevent her family from nagging on at her, especially any older members (so if her sister is older, it wouldnt be her place to tell her to be quiet). I know my in my bf's family things are dealt with in indirect ways. This seems to be a norm here, rather than out and out direct discussion or confrontation. This may be no easy task for her.

Also, as some members have experienced, when you get involved with her, it may be a case of "love me, love my family", as they will be a strong part of your life also. You need to work it out if you can handle that.

Well all i can say is good luck whatever you decide to do, but if you are saying goodbye to her, be a gentleman about it.