Retirement Visas In Thailand Part I

[Langsuan Man]

Since Thai News clippings are restricted and have to have a MOD move them here is an article from Sunday's Bangkok Post, Spectrum.

Why is the Post not fact checking this guy's story? After three Retirement Visa applications and issuance at the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, DC I have never had to submit "notarized" copies of anything. Nor have I had to "go to a Royal Thai embassy or consulate " to obtain the forms or turn in the application, and since when can the 800,000 THB be satisfied with "deposited in a bank or banks" in your home country.

Not much of an Ivestigative Report, IMHO

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RETIREMENT VISAS IN THAILAND PART I

Published: 1/03/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: Spectrum

If you or your spouse is over 50 and want to live in Thailand, a retirement visa may be for you. There are two ways to apply for a visa to retire in Thailand. The first is by applying in your home country before you come. The visa you must apply for in this case is called the Non-Imm O-A and is discussed below.

In later articles we will explain the other alternative, conversion to a Non-Imm O visa from a tourist visa while you are already in Thailand and other issues common to both the Non-Imm O-A and the Non-Imm O, such as importation of household effects and renewal.

Okay, how do you apply for a Non-Imm O-A from outside Thailand? First, go to a Royal Thai embassy or consulate in your country of residence or your home country and get the forms. Your completed application should include your passport, which must have a remaining validity of at least 18 months. You must also supply three 4cm x 6cm photos taken within the last six months. There are two forms you must submit, the visa application form in triplicate and the personal data form.

The fee is the equivalent of 2,000 baht for a single-entry visa, or 5,000 baht for a multiple entry visa. If you are living in Thailand on a Non-Imm O-A and wish to travel outside of Thailand, you must have a multiple entry version, or the Non-Imm O-A will be cancelled when you return.

The most important requirement for the O-A visa is that you must be able to show that you have assets and/or income. There are two alternatives for this. First, you may show by copies of your bank statements that for at least three months before the application you have had the equivalent of at least 800,000 baht deposited in a bank or banks in your home country or in Thailand. The bank or banks must give an original letter about each account confirming the accuracy of the account statement.

Second, you may submit an original income certificate from the source of the income showing you have a pension or monthly income of at least the equivalent of 65,000 baht.

You may, likewise, prove a combination of your monthly income multiplied by 12 plus bank deposit of the equivalent of a total of 800,000 baht and this will be acceptable.

You'll also have to submit a letter from the police or similar organisation in your country, issued less than three months before your application, that you have no criminal record. This must be notarised.

Finally, you'll need a medical certificate, in the form the embassy or consulate will give you, showing that you are not suffering from leprosy, an advanced stage of tuberculosis, drug addiction, elephantiasis or the third phase of syphilis. This must be notarised and dated not more than three months before your application. If your spouse is under 50, he or she will be considered for a temporary stay under what is known as a Category O visa. This means that your spouse can only stay in Thailand for a three-month period, rather than the one-year period that you will have. This rule is recently imposed and some under-50 spouses are currently in Thailand on longer visas.

Even though you've received a Non-Imm O-A, you're still required every 90 days to file Immigration form TM.47. Also, you'll have to renew this visa every year. More on these issues next time.

James Finch of Chavalit Finch and

Partners

and Nilobon Tangprasit of Siam City Law Offices Limited

For more information visit

[Lite Beer]

Moved to Visas.

[Lite Beer]

Not sure about the notarization points but the rest of it looks pretty accurate.

Washington Thai Embassy Website. http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-Imglong.aspx

[InterestedObserver]

Notarized documents, primarily the health certificate, bank balance confirmation letter, and police records check, have been sporadically required by some Thai embassies and consulates for a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa issued in the applicants home country. Nothing new there. Check out the various embassy or consulate websites. Everything else seems correct, including the 800,000 THB on deposit in the home country.

Edited March 1, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[krading]

800,000 Tbh in the " home country " ? Never heard of that before. Would an Australian Superannuation Statement be accepted as money on deposit?

[harrry]

800,000 Tbh in the " home country " ? Never heard of that before. Would an Australian Superannuation Statement be accepted as money on deposit?

If you apply in your home country, in my case Australia, you have to show the money in an Australian bank. When you renew in Thailand it must of course have to be in a THAI bank for the required period. I believe 3 months.

It seems the article fairly well represents the process I went through.

[Rdrokit]

I think the OP is confused. The article is correct as this is exactly what I did to get my Thai O-A visa in the USA. The only difference to the article was that I downloaded the needed forms from the Thai Embassy website and that I used the Thai Embassy in Los Angeles not Washington.

[Maestro]

800,000 Tbh in the " home country " ? ...

More precisely, the equivalent of 800,000 Baht anywhere in the world. This is for the application for a non-immigrant visa “O-A”, in this forum commonly referred to as retirement visa, by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Thai consulates sometimes parenthetically refereed to as long-stay visa. With this visa, on arrival in Thailand you receive permission to stay for one year. If it is valid for multiple entries, for one year from the date of its issue you receive permission to stay for one year every time you arrive in Thailand.

www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-Imglong.aspx

--

Maestro

[InterestedObserver]

The article was written about a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa which can only be obtained from ones home country; i.e., Australia, Germany, UK, or US etc. This type of visa is not available in Thailand or from any of the nearby Thai consulates, so any discussion about the requirements for issuance of said visa are not valid within and do not apply to Thailand.

[Tafia]

800,000 Tbh in the " home country " ? Never heard of that before. Would an Australian Superannuation Statement be accepted as money on deposit?

If you apply in your home country, in my case Australia, you have to show the money in an Australian bank. When you renew in Thailand it must of course have to be in a THAI bank for the required period. I believe 3 months.

It seems the article fairly well represents the process I went through.

As did I in the UK

[noise]

The article was written about a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa which can only be obtained from ones home country; i.e., Australia, Germany, UK, or US etc. This type of visa is not available in Thailand or from any of the nearby Thai consulates, so any discussion about the requirements for issuance of said visa are not valid within and do not apply to Thailand.

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

[Mario2008]

A visa cannot be applied for in thailand itself. You have to apply for a visa from abroad. In some cases you can convert your visa exempt entry or tourist visa to a non-immigrant visa, if you have at least 21 days remaning on your permission to stay and meet the qualifications for a one year extension.

Edit:

What you mean is getting an extension of stay for one year based on retirement. That is no problem, but something else then getting a visa. A visa and a permission to stay are 2 different things.

[Lite Beer]

The article was written about a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa which can only be obtained from ones home country; i.e., Australia, Germany, UK, or US etc. This type of visa is not available in Thailand or from any of the nearby Thai consulates, so any discussion about the requirements for issuance of said visa are not valid within and do not apply to Thailand.

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

You can only get a Non O-A Visa in your own country.

What you have is a 12 Month Extension of your Temporary Permision to Stay based on Retirement.

It is not the same thing.

[Patriciachas]

it is correct we had to have all documents notarized in the uk.

[noise]

The article was written about a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa which can only be obtained from ones home country; i.e., Australia, Germany, UK, or US etc. This type of visa is not available in Thailand or from any of the nearby Thai consulates, so any discussion about the requirements for issuance of said visa are not valid within and do not apply to Thailand.

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

You can only get a Non O-A Visa in your own country.

What you have is a 12 Month Extension of your Temporary Permision to Stay based on Retirement.

It is not the same thing.

I keep getting confused on this issue, so please bear with me while I ask for clarification. Given what you say is true, what is the difference? Is there any practical difference. I have to ask because the Wash D.C. Thai Embassy web site says:

Non-Immigrant Visa:

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for the following purposes:

........... To stay after retirement for a person who over 50 years old or older: (Category "O-A")

and then it goes on to say on another page

Non-Immigrant Visa Category "O-A" (Long Stay)

This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working.

These two sound the same to me. And 90 day reportings and annual renewals are the same. What am I missing?

Edited March 2, 2009 by noise

[Mario2008]

A non-O will give you a permisison to stay of 90 days, then you have to leave the country or apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.

An O-A longstay will give you a permisison to stay for 1 year, instead of 90 days. In additon you will need the police check and medical check, which the non-O doesn't require.

[Lite Beer]

A non-O will give you a permisison to stay of 90 days, then you have to leave the country or apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.

An O-A longstay will give you a permisison to stay for 1 year, instead of 90 days. In additon you will need the police check and medical check, which the non-O doesn't require.

Plus a Multi Entry Non O-A will give you up to two years stay without have to extend.

[noise]

A non-O will give you a permisison to stay of 90 days, then you have to leave the country or apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.

An O-A longstay will give you a permisison to stay for 1 year, instead of 90 days. In additon you will need the police check and medical check, which the non-O doesn't require.

Plus a Multi Entry Non O-A will give you up to two years stay without have to extend.

That is what I was thinking: if you apply in the US and get a Non O-A, whether multiple entry or not, you have to leave in 90 days or apply for Non O-A Long Stay-Retiree. The single entry vs multiple entry just changes the number of times you can enter Thailand after leaving at the end of the first 90 days.

So the choice one makes in the US has to take into consideration how long one intends to stay without leaving the country.

That is how I interpreted it in the past. But I was reading some inputs in previous posts as saying you could get a retiree visa in the U.S. good for a one year stay with no requirement to leave the country every 90 days.

Thanks.

[Lite Beer]

That is what I was thinking: if you apply in the US and get a Non O-A, whether multiple entry or not, you have to leave in 90 days or apply for Non O-A Long Stay-Retiree. The single entry vs multiple entry just changes the number of times you can enter Thailand after leaving at the end of the first 90 days.

So the choice one makes in the US has to take into consideration how long one intends to stay without leaving the country.

That is how I interpreted it in the past. But I was reading some inputs in previous posts as saying you could get a retiree visa in the U.S. good for a one year stay with no requirement to leave the country every 90 days.

Thanks.

You are still confused.

Non Imm O-A Visa. Apply in your own country with the finacial requirements of 800,000 Baht in any bank OR 65,000 Baht monthly income. OR A combination of the two. Medical and Police Report needed. This will give you a stay of 12 months in Thailand without having to leave. You do have to report your address to Immigration every 90 days.

Non Imm O-A Visa Multi Entry. Same as above but if you leave Thailand and enter again you will get another 12 months stay. Do a border run the day before it expires and you will get another 12 months making a total of 2 years.

Non Imm O Visa. Apply at any Thai Consulate and it gives you a stay of 90 days.

Non Imm O Visa Multi Entry This is usually applied for in your own country but it is possible to get elsewhere if you qualify. This gives you unlimited entries for a period of 12 months. Each entry has a maximum of 90 days. Do a border run just before it expires and you get another 90 days giving a total of 15 months.

12 Month Extension of Stay. This you apply for at an Immigration Office in Thailand. It gives you a stay of 12 months without having to leave the country. You do have to report your address to Immigration every 90 days.

[InterestedObserver]

With a Non-Immigrant "O" visa you will get a 90 day Admitted Until stamp at the airport and need to do border runs every 90 days if the visa is of the multiple entry type. With the Non-Immigrant "O-A" visa immigration admits you for 1 your at the airport, no border runs are necessary.

A visa for entry into Thailand should not be confused with an Extension of Temporary Stay, they are not the same. An extension of stay is what you get when your original visa Admitted Until date is about to expire and you either need to leave the country or extend your permission to stay in Thailand.

If you entry Thailand with a Non-Immigrant "O" visa, get a 90 day Admitted Until stamp at the airport, and then apply for an Extension of Temporary Stay based on retirement from immigration before the 90 days is up, you effectively have the same thing as the Non-Immigrant "O-A" visa. You would not be required to leave Thailand for at least 1 year.

Edited March 2, 2009 by InterestedObserver
corrected spelling - mario2008

[harrry]

With a Non-Immigrant "O" visa you will get a 90 day Admitted Until stamp at the airport and need to do border runs every 90 days if the visa is of the multiple entry type. With the Non-Immigrant "O-A" visa immigration admits you for 1 your at the airport, no border runs are necessary.

A visa for entry into Thailand should not be confused with an Extension of Temporary Stay, they are not the same. An extension of stay is what you get when your original visa Admitted Until date is about to expire and you either need to leave the country or extend your permission to stay in Thailand.

If you entry Thailand with a Non-Immigrant "O" visa, get a 90 day Admitted Until stamp at the airport, and then apply for an Extension of Temporary Stay based on retirement from immigration before the 90 days is up, you effectively have the same thing as the Non-Immigrant "O-A" visa. You would not be required to leave Thailand for at least 1 year.

The main difference is that you get a one year stay on entry so if you use a multiple entry and re-enter just at the end of the period you do not have to have any money in Thailand for up to two years.

[InterestedObserver]

The main difference is that you get a one year stay on entry so if you use a multiple entry and re-enter just at the end of the period you do not have to have any money in Thailand for up to two years.

Correct. You would not need to keep any money in Thailand until it was necessary to apply for an extension of stay based on retirement using the 800,000 THB on deposit method. With a pension the money in Thailand requirements can be minimal, depending on the amount of the pension.

Edited March 2, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[noise]

The main difference is that you get a one year stay on entry so if you use a multiple entry and re-enter just at the end of the period you do not have to have any money in Thailand for up to two years.

Correct. You would not need to keep any money in Thailand until it was necessary to apply for an extension of stay based on retirement using the 800,000 THB on deposit method. With a pension the money in Thailand requirements can be minimal, depending on the amount of the pension.

Lite Beer et al-- it is no wonder I am still confused. Everyone I talk to has a slightly different slant on visas. But inquiring minds want to know! So I keep poking and trying to get things in very simple words.

Ok, ignoring all the requirements for money here or there, etc., and just asking about the type of visa (ignoring single/multiple entries) ..... from what all of you have said here and from what I read on the Wash D.D. embassy web site... I am now under the impression the following is correct:

1. If you apply in the U.S. for simple a non-imm O under the category of retirement, which is classified as A, you will get a visa that requires you to leave every 90 days.

2. If you apply in the U.S. for a non-imm O-A Long Stay as a retiree, you can get the visa authorizing a stay of a year.

Is that correct? If so, then that explains the case where someone I know who applied, got his visa, and overstayed 9 months He mistakenly applied for a simple O instead of the Long Stay O, even though the purpose would be the same in each case. And, yes, he was not very smart to not have read his visa paperwork and the stamp in his passport. And he wasn't notified about reporting every 90 days because he was expected to leave in 90 days.

And to belabor another point, once you have been here 2 years, there is no practical difference between the two. The same requirements exist for everyone in extending a non-imm O-A year to year?

[Lite Beer]

1. If you apply in the U.S. for simple a non-imm O under the category of retirement, which is classified as A, you will get a visa that requires you to leave every 90 days. Travelers with this type of visa will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 90 days.

Correct except that it is a Non Imm O Visa. Not "A". A single entry gives you 90 days. A multi entry gives you unlimited entries of a maximum of 90 days at a time.

2. If you apply in the U.S. for a non-imm O-A Long Stay as a retiree, you can get the visa authorizing a stay of a year. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.

Correct. Unless you get a Multi Entry in which case it can be stretched out to two years.

Is that correct? If so, then that explains the case where someone I know who applied, got his visa, and overstayed 9 months He mistakenly applied for a simple O instead of the Long Stay O, even though the purpose would be the same in each case. And, yes, he was not very smart to not have read his visa paperwork and the stamp in his passport. And he wasn't notified about reporting every 90 days because he was expected to leave in 90 days.

As you said. He was not very smart. If he applied for a Visa giving him 90 day stays and then stayed for a year.

And to belabor another point, once you have been here 2 years, there is no practical difference between the two. The same requirements exist for everyone in extending a non-imm O-A year to year?

Correct once you have been in Thailand for the duration of your permition to stay you apply for a 12 month extension at Immigration. Unless you choose to go back and apply for another O-A Visa in your home country.

[JimGant]

If your spouse is under 50, he or she will be considered for a temporary stay under what is known as a Category O visa. This means that your spouse can only stay in Thailand for a three-month period, rather than the one-year period that you will have. This rule is recently imposed and some under-50 spouses are currently in Thailand on longer visas.

Hmmm. I kinda remember a discussion about this, but my search skills can't seem to locate it -- or maybe there wasn't a discussion.....(?). Anyway, is this correct? And if so, where's the definitive guidance? The latest Police Order that would apply, I believe, is 777/2551, para 2.20. But this says nothing about a spouse dependent needing to be over 50 for a long stay -- only a parent dependent of someone here on extension.... If this is true, kinda unfair for retirees with younger non-Thai wives.

If you are living in Thailand on a Non-Imm O-A and wish to travel outside of Thailand, you must have a multiple entry version, or the Non-Imm O-A will be cancelled when you return.

Yeah, but don't try and get a multiple entry O-A from the Los Angeles consulate. They will only allow a single entry O-A visa, as they apparently got miffed about the nearly 2-year possibility of the multiple entry version. Here's a quote from their website:

Purpose of visit: To stay in Thailand for a retirement purpose.(Category “O-A”)

Validity of visa: The validity of visa is 3 months.

Period of stay: Travelers with this type of visa will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period up to 1 year.

Fee: $ 65 for a single-entry ONLY, no multiple-entry.

But, on the good side, no stated requirement about 'notarization.' The closest they come to that is requiring a 'letter of guarantee' from the bank if going the 800k route.

[Lite Beer]

If your spouse is under 50, he or she will be considered for a temporary stay under what is known as a Category O visa. This means that your spouse can only stay in Thailand for a three-month period, rather than the one-year period that you will have. This rule is recently imposed and some under-50 spouses are currently in Thailand on longer visas.

Hmmm. I kinda remember a discussion about this, but my search skills can't seem to locate it -- or maybe there wasn't a discussion.....(?). Anyway, is this correct? And if so, where's the definitive guidance? The latest Police Order that would apply, I believe, is 777/2551, para 2.20. But this says nothing about a spouse dependent needing to be over 50 for a long stay -- only a parent dependent of someone here on extension.... If this is true, kinda unfair for retirees with younger non-Thai wives.

The wife under 50 can apply for a Multi Entry Non O Visa giving multiple entries of up to 90 days at a time. Whether this is available in all countries I do not know but it certainly is in the UK.

She can also apply for 12 month extensions if her Husband is on 12 monthly extensions. So they would both be better off to arrive in Thailand on a single Non O Visa and apply for the 12 month extensions in Thailand rather tham him getting an O-A Visa before arrival.

[JimGant]

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

As said, you can effectively get an O-A visa in Thailand by getting a one-year extension of your Non Imm visa. But this is not strictly getting an "O-A" visa -- strictly, you *can't* get an O-A visa stamp from within Thailand.

The confusion is underwritten by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs' website, where they discuss the O-A visa and provide the following partial misinformation:

Applicant may submit their [O-A] application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located on Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Sathorn District, Bangkok 10120. Tel 0-2287-4948 (direct) or 0-2287-3101 - 10 ext. 2236.

(MFA website:Here)

Hopefully, MFA knows more about its own affairs than it does about those of the Thai Immigration Police.....

Hull's website also mimics the MFA misinformation.

No wonder this confusion keeps cropping up.

[JimGant]

So they would both be better off to arrive in Thailand on a single Non O Visa and apply for the 12 month extensions in Thailand rather tham him getting an O-A Visa before arrival.

I'll say!! Another positive for extending in Thailand vs. getting an O-A visa. Heads up you geezers with non Thai trophy wives.....

[Mario2008]

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

As said, you can effectively get an O-A visa in Thailand by getting a one-year extension of your Non Imm visa. But this is not strictly getting an "O-A" visa -- strictly, you *can't* get an O-A visa stamp from within Thailand.

The confusion is underwritten by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs' website, where they discuss the O-A visa and provide the following partial misinformation:

Applicant may submit their [O-A] application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located on Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Sathorn District, Bangkok 10120. Tel 0-2287-4948 (direct) or 0-2287-3101 - 10 ext. 2236.

(MFA website:Here)

Hopefully, MFA knows more about its own affairs than it does about those of the Thai Immigration Police.....

Hull's website also mimics the MFA misinformation.

No wonder this confusion keeps cropping up.

This is the usual confusion about the differences between a visa and the permision to stay. A visa is simply a permit to travel to Thailand and ask to be allowed to enter. They can and sometimes will deny you entry, visa or no visa.

When you are allowed entry you get a permission to stay and it is this permisison to stay that you can extend, not the visa.

More info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_(document)

[Naam]

The article was written about a Non-Immigrant "O-A" long stay (retirement) visa which can only be obtained from ones home country; i.e., Australia, Germany, UK, or US etc.This type of visa is not available in Thailand or from any of the nearby Thai consulates , so any discussion about the requirements for issuance of said visa are not valid within and do not apply to Thailand.

that's all theory and what the regulations say. practice is different and varies.