Brit Faces Two Years In Thai Jail For Being 'rude'.

[Jingthing]

In the west they would have put him in a cool off room. There is no way a person swearing would face criminal charges for mouthing off. If they thought it was a fake passport though, that would be much more serious. That is the key to this, the false accusation of having a fake passport.

[zehner]

Doesn't matter what you think they did wrong jingthing.

The Brit swore. He was wrong. End of story.

[Jingthing]

Doesn't matter what you think they did wrong jingthing.

The Brit swore. He was wrong. End of story.

So he deserves two years in Thai snake pit then? Who are you people? SCARY!

[zehner]

2 years is the maximum sentence jingthing.

He is out on bail now having spent 3 wonderful weeks in Phuket prison. Court date is in April.

I assume he will adopt the servile approach and beg forgiveness for his foul language in court and be booted out right after with a fine to pay.

Lesson learned eh?

[Jingthing]

I assume he will adopt the servile approach and beg forgiveness for his foul language in court and be booted out right after with a fine to pay.

Assume based on what? Yes, he will plead guilty and that will reduce his sentence, but it not a given that he won't be going back to prison. I hope for his sake that he doesn't, but to assume what is going to happen to him here especially because he doesn't appear to have money is naive.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[zehner]

Common sense.

[Jingthing]

Common sense.

Common sense? In Thaiand? Oh geez. I agree there is a fair chance he will get off easy because of all the PUBLICITY. He is very lucky about that. If this hadn't made the press, and he didn't have money, his odds of fair treatment would be greatly reduced.

[PhilHarries]

24 pages of bickering, name calling and conjecture on a thread about a man none of you have met, in a case none of you have the facts for, concerning a passport and photo none of you have seen. Guess none of the armchair detectives learned anything from the bodyless head case.

So what do you suggest, post the news item and close the thread preventing any discussion? Sure there's a lot of conjecture, discussion and bickering but these threads are little more than bar room chat (without the beer ). If you don't like it don't read it or are you one of those who buy a copy of Shakespeare and then complain there's no pictures?

[Jingthing]

Yes, and what else are we supposed to do? Because this is now a famous case, we will learn about the verdict. But we likely will not be seeing the passport picture and definitely won't be hearing the so called tape they have.

[zehner]

^Yes, common sense in Thailand.

If you get thrown in the slammer for insulting an immigration official and have a trial coming up what would you do>?

Option A: Go for the jugular, point to all the international press and demand an apology.

Option B: Apologise profusely and say you were in the wrong for swearing at the immigration official. Claim to love Thailand and her people and plead to be allowed back in.

Edited March 11, 2009 by zehner

[Jingthing]

He will obviously do Option B but he has NO CONTROL over the outcome. Pleading guilty lightens your sentence here, it does not automatically get you off with no punishment. Hopefully, the British embassy is now on this case and pulling strings. If not, why not you should be asking if you are British.

[Sabum]

I told myself I wouldnt post again but I gotta say something.

He swore AFTER they made him miss his plane with a non refundable ticket and NO EXTRA MONEY to buy another ticket. So not only did he LOSE A LARGE CHUNK OF CASH he was stuck and not able to go home all because of other people mistakes. You understand? He was fine until the actions of others cost him big time. I would freak out, and so would most HUMAN BEINGS. If you are saying you wouldn't I simply do not believe you are being honest with yourself.

Now anyone that doesnt see how this played out has a seriously skewed vision on Thailand. Based on my own experiences and reading about them non stop on this forum. If a Thai person does wrong or makes a mistake, they get their backs up. This was all about saving face at the cost of Simons liberty.

After they discovered that THEY WERE WRONG to detain Simon and cause him to miss his flight they charged him with being rude, AFTER.... better to go on the attack then admit to a mistake, I see this all the time, the whole situation seems completely transparent and obvious. But guess a lot of you don't live in the same Thailand I live in and have never seen this stereotypical behaviour time and time again.

RACE, to say race was not involved is so..... ridiculous. Race plays a huge part in these situations all around the world and not just Thailand. But at least in other countries they are a little careful because they don't want to be seen as racist, sorry but in a country where judges have ruled in the favor of the defendant because "the defendant is Thai and you are foreigner so defendant wins" it is painfully obvious that being labelled racist is not even registering as a concern.

I see people judging him because he is big, black, martial artist etc.... all of this is completely irrelevant! Claiming roid rage, hooligan, thinks hes so tough because he's a black belt..... how can you guys say so many ridiculous things? I go to the gym, I talk to weight lifters, they are doctors and lawyers and construction workers and students, they are just like anybody else. Same for black belt instructors, REGULAR PEOPLE. Guess if you've never met a weight lifter or black belt you can mystify them and think all kinds of bizarre things, I suggest you get out and experience new kinds of people. Honestly, feels like you're all a bunch bitter old men still living in 1955 and judging everyone that is different from you.

THE FACTS: (since people are STILL judging him based on nontruths)

1. He didnt swear until AFTER they made him miss his flight and cost him lots of money he doesnt have. Saying he caused the situation is A LIE, he reacted to an outrageous situation

2. He is a 44 year old writer and martial arts instructor that was in Phuket actually working with and training a Bristish Champion, hardly a "hooligan!"

3. Nobody told him what he was being charged with, once his embassy finally informed the police his passport was real they kept him in jail without telling him the charge, his embassy finally came in a week later and told him.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Sabum

[yumidesign]

24 pages of bickering, name calling and conjecture on a thread about a man none of you have met, in a case none of you have the facts for, concerning a passport and photo none of you have seen. Guess none of the armchair detectives learned anything from the bodyless head case.

Thank you for some common sense, which seams to be missing in the large 'ratbag' element of this forum

[Jingthing]

I would freak out, and so would most HUMAN BEINGS. If you are saying you wouldn't I simply do not believe you are being honest with yourself.

Thank you Sabum. You are a true gentleman, purple shirt for you.

[ballpoint]

24 pages of bickering, name calling and conjecture on a thread about a man none of you have met, in a case none of you have the facts for, concerning a passport and photo none of you have seen. Guess none of the armchair detectives learned anything from the bodyless head case.

So what do you suggest, post the news item and close the thread preventing any discussion? Sure there's a lot of conjecture, discussion and bickering but these threads are little more than bar room chat (without the beer ). If you don't like it don't read it or are you one of those who buy a copy of Shakespeare and then complain there's no pictures?

Bar room chat? This would have erupted into a brawl by now. There's nothing wrong with a bit of reasonable discussion, which you'll notice I didn't mention as a negative thing in my original post, but this has gone well beyond that. We've had people claiming that he swore before he missed his flight, while he was missing his flight, after he missed his flight, and no doubt someone will come on and say he swore before he even arrived at the airport. If the authorities listen to the advice offered here, the man would be given a medal and made an honourary Thai citizen before being locked up for 20 years while being hung, shot and thrown in a septic tank. Sorry, my mistake, the last one's just for LM.

No doubt we could start a 100 page thread on the merits of pictures or no pictures in Shakespeare, but I fail to see what it's got to do with this topic? Or are you just upset that you've coloured in all the ones in your books already? From the posts on this thread, I doubt if you managed to stay within the lines.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I see people judging him because he is big, black, martial artist etc.... all of this is completely irrelevant! Claiming roid rage, hooligan, thinks hes so tough because he's a black belt..... how can you guys say so many ridiculous things? I go to the gym, I talk to weight lifters, they are doctors and lawyers and construction workers and students, they are just like anybody else. Same for black belt instructors, REGULAR PEOPLE. Guess if you've never met a weight lifter or black belt you can mystify them and think all kinds of bizarre things, I suggest you get out and experience new kinds of people. Honestly, feels like you're all a bunch bitter old men still living in 1955 and judging everyone that is different from you.

Disagree.

Chuck Norris' Personal Code of Conduct Rule No. 8 I will maintain respect for those in authority and demonstrate this respect at all times. The Martial Arts Instructor in question fails to meet this requirment.

[Sabum]

And then Simon is black. I can’t help feel that he is right when he says: ‘In Thailand there is no perception of a black Englishman’.

Thank you, Andrew Drummond. I say the same thing. Look at the ROOT CAUSE of this fiasco. They would have not given his passport a second look if he was not black.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/03/10/...n-the-sht-blog/

The "ROOT CAUSE" was his foul mouth.

If he has not kept his mouth shut we would have heard no more.

He swore ONCE after he watched his flight fly away without him... so how exactly beyond him standing there being black was he the root cause of this situation and we wouldnt hear any more of it? How exactly was his mouth the problem when he only said the ONE swear word AFTER they cost him money and stranded him in Thailand? ANSWER THIS

[Jingthing]

The Martial Arts Instructor in question fails to meet this requirment.

Oh dear, will he have to take a downgrade in belt colour now?

[Sabum]

Fact is they did question the passport. As a black man I'm sure it was not the first time he had been faced with such scrutiny.

If he had kept his cool he would avoided all the unpleasantness.

Coz he wuz black?

Big deal. He must have had that before. Why did he lose the cool? Did he think telling the immigration official to "fuc_k off" would endear him with the locals?

Right so what you are saying is, all black people should know their place right? I mean that is what it means when you say "Im sure he gets this kind of mistreatment all the time, why get angry?" He should just accept the constant racism and bigotry and not complain like a good little negro right? YES SAH! RIGHT AWAY SAH! You don't even realise how completely racist you are do you? Hard to believe that in 2009 people like you still exist in countries with proper education. You might as well just run to your closet and whip out your hood, stop playing, just be who you really are, I expect to see you marching down sukhumvit in full KKK regalia this afternoon.

[Sabum]

I see people judging him because he is big, black, martial artist etc.... all of this is completely irrelevant! Claiming roid rage, hooligan, thinks hes so tough because he's a black belt..... how can you guys say so many ridiculous things? I go to the gym, I talk to weight lifters, they are doctors and lawyers and construction workers and students, they are just like anybody else. Same for black belt instructors, REGULAR PEOPLE. Guess if you've never met a weight lifter or black belt you can mystify them and think all kinds of bizarre things, I suggest you get out and experience new kinds of people. Honestly, feels like you're all a bunch bitter old men still living in 1955 and judging everyone that is different from you.

Disagree.

Chuck Norris' Personal Code of Conduct Rule No. 8 I will maintain respect for those in authority and demonstrate this respect at all times. The Martial Arts Instructor in question fails to meet this requirment.

Are you joking? Hope so, I think any martial artist, any PERSON would be dismayed and angry in the face of authority abusing its power and causing injustice. Not necessarily this case, just saying to respect authority even when its breaking the law or trying to kill you seems like a foolish thing to say right? You do know that authority does inhumane acts around the globe every minute right? We are supposed to respect authority in even those situations?

[neverdie]

must be one of the sadest stories I've ever heard , could someone please hand me a handkerchief, sob sob.

All the people defending him with all these accurate statements are doing so because they witnessed the entire incident

[bungy007]

You say one thing out of place to an immigration/police officer in America and youll be tasered. Be rude to one in Canada (as what happened last year, big case) youll be tasered and killed.

You cant go around insulting officers like immigration here in Thailand or anywhere else, or you are asking for problems. He should have known better.

Presumeably, the whacked-out Canuk is serving hard time for first degree murder. As for the American - well...he's American and has obviously been over exposed to hollywood and is presumeably enjoying prescriptive medicine whilst bound in a straight jacket for an indefinite period - i.e. life!

[bungy007]

I told myself I wouldnt post again but I gotta say something.

He swore AFTER they made him miss his plane with a non refundable ticket and NO EXTRA MONEY to buy another ticket. So not only did he LOSE A LARGE CHUNK OF CASH he was stuck and not able to go home all because of other people mistakes. You understand? He was fine until the actions of others cost him big time. I would freak out, and so would most HUMAN BEINGS. If you are saying you wouldn't I simply do not believe you are being honest with yourself.

Now anyone that doesnt see how this played out has a seriously skewed vision on Thailand. Based on my own experiences and reading about them non stop on this forum. If a Thai person does wrong or makes a mistake, they get their backs up. This was all about saving face at the cost of Simons liberty.

After they discovered that THEY WERE WRONG to detain Simon and cause him to miss his flight they charged him with being rude, AFTER.... better to go on the attack then admit to a mistake, I see this all the time, the whole situation seems completely transparent and obvious. But guess a lot of you don't live in the same Thailand I live in and have never seen this stereotypical behaviour time and time again.

RACE, to say race was not involved is so..... ridiculous. Race plays a huge part in these situations all around the world and not just Thailand. But at least in other countries they are a little careful because they don't want to be seen as racist, sorry but in a country where judges have ruled in the favor of the defendant because "the defendant is Thai and you are foreigner so defendant wins" it is painfully obvious that being labelled racist is not even registering as a concern.

I see people judging him because he is big, black, martial artist etc.... all of this is completely irrelevant! Claiming roid rage, hooligan, thinks hes so tough because he's a black belt..... how can you guys say so many ridiculous things? I go to the gym, I talk to weight lifters, they are doctors and lawyers and construction workers and students, they are just like anybody else. Same for black belt instructors, REGULAR PEOPLE. Guess if you've never met a weight lifter or black belt you can mystify them and think all kinds of bizarre things, I suggest you get out and experience new kinds of people. Honestly, feels like you're all a bunch bitter old men still living in 1955 and judging everyone that is different from you.

THE FACTS: (since people are STILL judging him based on nontruths)

1. He didnt swear until AFTER they made him miss his flight and cost him lots of money he doesnt have. Saying he caused the situation is A LIE, he reacted to an outrageous situation

2. He is a 44 year old writer and martial arts instructor that was in Phuket actually working with and training a Bristish Champion, hardly a "hooligan!"

3. Nobody told him what he was being charged with, once his embassy finally informed the police his passport was real they kept him in jail without telling him the charge, his embassy finally came in a week later and told him.

This is nothing short of a national disgrace! I'm wish that I was really shocked that the British Embassy allowed things to go this far but I've been abroad for too long. This man should be returned first class by Thai airways with all charges dropped and with his pockets weighed down with copious quantities of financial compensation for lost time and imprisonment!

Perhaps we should begin to question the protection we are really getting from our embassy. They should at least come out and clarify their actions or lack of!

[PhilHarries]

and no doubt someone will come on and say he swore before he even arrived at the airport.

Ah but if he swore before he got to the airport and there was no immigration officers to hear him did he make a sound?

Anyhow, little doubt he'll get to hear about TV and may even make a visit and tell us what actually happened. That will truly spoil the fun.

[bungy007]

must be one of the sadest stories I've ever heard , could someone please hand me a handkerchief, sob sob.

All the people defending him with all these accurate statements are doing so because they witnessed the entire incident

Don't have to have witnessed it - even if he called the immigration official a trumped up Colonel Blimp with a wanger the size of a Thai chilly pepper, he should not have been imprisoned! By opening their boarders and accepting international flights, Thailand has ineffect agreed to accept that a multitude of cultures will pass through their portals. As a consequence, ideals and actions that may be acceptable to other cultures like spitting, drinking vodka for breakfast, not believing in a monachy etc has to be tolerated to a degree. The Thai way is not the only way!

Therefore, they should have given him some kind of officail warning that their perception of his behaviour is not going to endear him to government officials and to be aware that he has now had a warning posted against his name. If it happens again he will have to face the consequences which are blah, blah, blah. He would then be able to make up his mind whether to return to a country that forced him to miss his place etc or not.

Thailand is way out of line by their actions and in some way have perpertrated a crime against Simon and have set a very grim precedent. Will it come back to bite them on the bum?

[ClaytonSeymour]

Disagree.

Chuck Norris' Personal Code of Conduct Rule No. 8 I will maintain respect for those in authority and demonstrate this respect at all times. The Martial Arts Instructor in question fails to meet this requirment.

Are you joking? Hope so, I think any martial artist, any PERSON would be dismayed and angry in the face of authority abusing its power and causing injustice. Not necessarily this case, just saying to respect authority even when its breaking the law or trying to kill you seems like a foolish thing to say right? You do know that authority does inhumane acts around the globe every minute right? We are supposed to respect authority in even those situations?

I most certainly am not joking.

I also know that the UK authorities operate at the opposite end of the scale - hence individuals such as this feel it's acceptable to behave like guttersnipes. Besides, to compare the plight of someone facing real inhumanity i.e. Darfur, with someone who chose to be disrespectful to immigration officials is rather poor.

[NanLaew]

Will it come back to bite them on the bum?

Not a chance. We just aint that significant despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on an internet forum. The sooner we understand that, the shorter this thread will be.

[henryalleman]

must be one of the sadest stories I've ever heard , could someone please hand me a handkerchief, sob sob.

All the people defending him with all these accurate statements are doing so because they witnessed the entire incident

Don't have to have witnessed it - even if he called the immigration official a trumped up Colonel Blimp with a wanger the size of a Thai chilly pepper, he should not have been imprisoned! By opening their boarders and accepting international flights, Thailand has ineffect agreed to accept that a multitude of cultures will pass through their portals. As a consequence, ideals and actions that may be acceptable to other cultures like spitting, drinking vodka for breakfast, not believing in a monachy etc has to be tolerated to a degree. The Thai way is not the only way!

No my friend, you are wrong completely. When you visit a country you should follow their rules. If you can't stay home.

[Oberkommando]

I also know that the UK authorities operate at the opposite end of the scale - hence individuals such as this feel it's acceptable to behave like guttersnipes.

The difference is the punishment will more than likely fit the crime in the UK.

This is of course assuming this guy actually did anything wrong. I am leaning to the belief that he was a bit miffed at missing his flight and being treated like a criminal, then being locked up for several days due to the negligence and incompetence of others.

Enough to push most of us over the edge I would think.

Of course the Thais can never admit they are wrong so they have thrown the book at this guy. Face must be saved, after all.

About 18 months ago I flew into BKK from Dubai and I saw an over-officious Immigration Officer having an argument with an American gentleman who had nipped under the cordon to use one of the desks after being beckoned to do so by the Official manning the desk. The officious officer came from nowhere, incorrectly scolding the American for jumping the queue, and tried to send him to the back of the (now really, really long) line. Needless to say the American had something so say about this but the Thai wouldn't listen to reason. Unfortunately I didn't see the conclusion of this fracas as I had to get stamped in myself and collect my baggage...

[Oberkommando]

No my friend, you are wrong completely. When you visit a country you should follow their rules. If you can't stay home.

Yet a large percentage of visitors Thailand attracts come here specifically for a certain illegal activity.

Some rules are made to be broken it seems.

Not a chance. We just aint that significant despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on an internet forum. The sooner we understand that, the shorter this thread will be.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Thailand is receiving a lot of negative press at the moment, including this story being picked up by some of the main British papers.

Cumulatively, as another poster pointed out, it most certainly will have an effect.