Brit Faces Two Years In Thai Jail For Being 'rude'.

[stevenl]

It always amazes me that expats becomes so "institutionalised" living in Thailand they forget the basic rights they were brought up with.

It's like a sad version of Stockhausen syndrome.

Pathetic really

Way too many people living here in Thailand want the Thais to accept their beliefs and values.

Wake up, you're living i a different country with different ideas. Those basic rights are the basic rights you grew up with, but they don't apply here, nor in lots of other countries that don't share your (western) morals and values.

[Moonrakers]

I really should send a link to this thread to my (now ex) boss.

The bloke (My ex boss) is an utter numptie and acts like this himself at immigration when they don't give him exactly what he wants, shouting, thumping the desk etc. By all accounts he has been refused a Chinese visa for this very reason and it is likely that the same could well happen in Thailand.

Two years for this Burrowes chap is clearly excessive, but it doe's go to show that these officials have us by the gonads and so if they say jump, you say "how high would you like me to jump sir".

[Wellington]

Only a complete idiot would act the way he did. Can't feel sorry for him even though the sentence is rather harsh, in fact it is rather funny.

This is the sort of stupid reaction(from Immigration) that costs Thailand dearly in terms of future incoming tourists

particularly if the story reaches the British Press.

Madness

No-one should be locked up for being rude.

Slap on the wrist,yes,but that's enough.

[junkofdavid2]

I can't comment on this Brit's case as I don't know the whole story. Maybe he is indeed a victim.

However, what I can comment on based on actual experience I've seen with a lot of other "victims", whether a racial minority or disabled or otherwise, is that a lot of them have chips on their shoulder and actually WANT to be victims (or, should I say, "martyrs"), and even obviously intentionally DO things to taunt "the establishment" officers to get themselves "victimized" ("martyrized") by authorities or whoever... for reasons beyond me.

It's like street protesters who intentionally try everything to get beaten up by the cops during a street protest so that they can afterward cry to the media on air to shout about "police brutality", etc.... and then go back to their protest group with a new higher "status" within the group because he's now one of the ones who was beaten up... and that sets him "above" the rest in "heroism points".

[freddiefunk]

It always amazes me that expats becomes so "institutionalised" living in Thailand they forget the basic rights they were brought up with.

It's like a sad version of Stockhausen syndrome.

Pathetic really

Way too many people living here in Thailand want the Thais to accept their beliefs and values.

Wake up, you're living i a different country with different ideas. Those basic rights are the basic rights you grew up with, but they don't apply here, nor in lots of other countries that don't share your (western) morals and values.

ourmanflint was probably referring to the expats who are cheering this episode and not merely accepting it. I don't think it is Stockhausen syndrome. I believe many expats have worked very hard at integrating in Thailand and some of them get a perverse satisfaction out of seeing other expats fail adjust to the different cultural norms. It supports their sense of superiority.

[unforgiven]

A BRITISH man is facing a two-year sentence in a hellish Thai prison for being 'rude' to an official.

Voice reader Simon Burrowes, from Wembley, north London, was ending a holiday with a friend when Thai authorities in Phuket airport detained him on January 31, preventing him from returning to the UK.

Immigration officials suspected Burrowes' passport was a forgery. Speaking to The Voice via phone from Thailand, Burrowes said: "A woman at immigration was looking at my passport and then handed it to the man behind her. I was ushered to sit down whilst he took out a magnifying glass and proceeded to check my passport for half an hour," he explained.

He was told that he was not getting on the plane and was taken to a detention centre, whilst his friend Matthew was able to fly back to the UK. Burrowes said: "I'm a black man so I'm used to getting hassle at airports, but I was shocked by this." For three weeks, the 44-year old was held with 126 men in a cramped prison cell.

"Thai prisons are notorious for being some of the worst. There is no privacy. You go to the toilet in the open and there is no toilet paper. There were guys in there that had scabies and were next to me," said Burrowes.

He contacted the British Consulate, who confirmed his passport was genuine. However, the disgruntled Brit claims that the Consulate should have done more, saying that they took long to react to his case.

"I was disgusted and beside myself. People talk of them [the British Consulate] like they are the cavalry. If you have issues abroad they come charging to help. But they didn't really help me," he fumed. Burrowes was later charged with 'rude and aggressive behaviour' towards an immigration officer, a claim he denies, and was released on £2,000 bail. He must remain in Thailand until his trial begins on April 26, and his lawyer has warned he could face a two-year jail sentence.

"I have to find some way to sustain myself financially while I am here. I went to Thailand to enjoy the land, learn the culture and spend some money. It's turned into a nightmare," he said. Burrowes is hoping that he will soon be able to fly back to the UK.

"If they find me guilty, who knows what will happen. I met people in prison who are doing five years for having two spliffs on them. It's very difficult to hold yourself up in a Thai prison. I feel very bitter about what has happened," he said. A spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London told The Voice they are

looking into the case.

Link to story here.

It would appear that he swore at the immigration official, criticised Thailand & snatched his passport back, so on that basis he got what he deserved & if he does receive a prison sentence, he has only himself to blame - end of discussion. I'd just add that I've no sympathy for him whatsoever.

they'll just kick him out with a 3 week lesson on manners.

[Journalist]

Royal Pardon please.

[H2oDunc]

" Im black so Im used to getting hassle " Tells me all I need to know about this guy. This paired with the interview with " the Voice " tells me we have a guy with a big attitude and a big chip on the shoulder. Back in the UK he is used to calling the race card at every delay or inconvenience. In the UK it works as everybody is so scared of being labelled as a racist. He has just found out that this attitude does not work here in Thailand.

Just my opinion on reading the reports.

I hope that Thailand never gets in the same mess we have in the UK now through PC policies

[mickba]

.....................You people are all totally crazy. Youre either judging him because he's black, because he's a martial arts instructor and fighter, because he's english. because he's a falang... .........

Sorry to be pedantic, but I don't believe one can be both black and a farang.

[geriatrickid]

they'll just kick him out with a 3 week lesson on manners.

You nailed it.

We've all been in line at immigration behind a jerk at some point, so maybe he was one of them. Maybe he wasn't. The evidence will come out.

The immigration folks don't go out of their way to look for a fight. Sure they can be cold and unsmiling at times, but they are pretty calm.

If he was beligerent, this just might do him some good. If he is a big bruiser and used to having his way, he will learn the benefits of remaining calm and understanding that in life we must sometimes deal with annoying situations. I have a hunch that he's not had to many people say no to him before.

[grantbkk]

This appears to be a big human interest story that I originally viewed in the Phuket New Forum. I had no idea he was Black. Of the 33 million or so visitors to the Land of Smiles Thai Immigration happens to mess with this guy? I don't think so. There would have to be a trigger of some sort to single him out. While visiting Suan Phlu every year on almost every occasion I see at least one guy flip out and they just wait for his tirade to end and get him to leave the building. No jail, court or prison sentence.

Perhaps this guy had a short fuse and it could have been "roid rage". Not unheard of in the athletic community. He had to be special to get "hassled" going out of Thailand. I respect the immigration officials and show deference in all cases. You can be right but you can be "dead" right. What was he thinking? These people have total control over you until you're stamped out.

People here are over reacting and reading things into the case that are not there. He received a three week lesson in manners and will probably not do another day in jail. He will be blacklisted and deported. As far as making a living, his Facebook profile shows him to be an expert Thai boxer. He can make money at that every night. From his own interview it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and this could be a good life's lesson for him.

[Splatter]

....

People here are over reacting and reading things into the case that are not there. He received a three week lesson in manners and will probably not do another day in jail. He will be blacklisted and deported. As far as making a living, his Facebook profile shows him to be an expert Thai boxer. He can make money at that every night. From his own interview it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and this could be a good life's lesson for him.

Where did you read this man has a work permit so he can earn money Thai boxing in Thailand?

[stiggy]

In heathrow one time I was frogmarched under armed guard with my wife into a police holding room.

Our crime .. when checking in we where being charged with excess luggage. I pointed out to my wife that its not worth paying 35 pounds a kilo for heinz soup.

My wife then unpacked them and informed me that I could stick them up my Ar3s and save the money. It was a comment made in jest between husband and wife but a staff member took offensive.My wife then apologized (genuinely) and was then told do not raise your voice ! We laughed and made a comment between ourselves that maybe the staff here need a holiday.

Next thing security where called and we where being charged with harassment.Eventually after missing flight the Police stated it was ridiculous after watching the whole thing on CCTV. Apologized and let us go.

[Lobin]

.....................You people are all totally crazy. Youre either judging him because he's black, because he's a martial arts instructor and fighter, because he's english. because he's a falang... .........

Sorry to be pedantic, but I don't believe one can be both black and a farang.

falang dam - ฝรั่งดำ

Edited March 4, 2009 by Lobin

[PhilHarries]

This is the sort of stupid reaction(from Immigration) that costs Thailand dearly in terms of future incoming tourists

particularly if the story reaches the British Press.

I don't think it will have any noticable effect on British tourism. People's attention span is so short these days that headline news one day is forgotten three days later. A minor case like this most likely won't even make the national press unless it's a slow news day.

Even if it did make the newspapers, likely as not most people would just pass it over as another case of he got what he deserved on the basis of there's no smoke without fire.

It may be a sad indictment of our society but it would probably get more attention if he was a white, professional, family man returning from his annual vacation with his wife and kids. But then such a man is viewed as being less likely to launch into a tirade against the immigration officer and the country so his version of events is more likely to be believed.

[grantbkk]

....

People here are over reacting and reading things into the case that are not there. He received a three week lesson in manners and will probably not do another day in jail. He will be blacklisted and deported. As far as making a living, his Facebook profile shows him to be an expert Thai boxer. He can make money at that every night. From his own interview it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and this could be a good life's lesson for him.

Where did you read this man has a work permit so he can earn money Thai boxing in Thailand?

Perhaps you are not familiar with Thailand and the work permit thing. The WP is required but often goes unenforced. Let's take the English teaching profession for example. I'm not saying this guy should be an English teacher by the way. He seems a bit high strung for teaching Thai children. But I digress. Maybe about half of the English teachers have the required work permit. They take heat every time a John Mark Karr type gets arrested here. The convoluted work permit, visa process makes the requirement too difficult for some hence the laws are ignored. I am not advocating this guy continues to break Thai laws but how will he eat, sleep and prosper while he is cooling his heels awaiting his court date?

[neverdie]

A published photo of a shirtless black man's passport photo in which he looks younger than he really is...

I can see where the problem is, if hes a man with darker skin & this is his passport photo.....can you spot the problem?

Edited March 4, 2009 by neverdie

[Splatter]

....

People here are over reacting and reading things into the case that are not there. He received a three week lesson in manners and will probably not do another day in jail. He will be blacklisted and deported. As far as making a living, his Facebook profile shows him to be an expert Thai boxer. He can make money at that every night. From his own interview it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and this could be a good life's lesson for him.

Where did you read this man has a work permit so he can earn money Thai boxing in Thailand?

Perhaps you are not familiar with Thailand and the work permit thing. The WP is required but often goes unenforced. Let's take the English teaching profession for example. I'm not saying this guy should be an English teacher by the way. He seems a bit high strung for teaching Thai children. But I digress. Maybe about half of the English teachers have the required work permit. They take heat every time a John Mark Karr type gets arrested here. The convoluted work permit, visa process makes the requirement too difficult for some hence the laws are ignored. I am not advocating this guy continues to break Thai laws but how will he eat, sleep and prosper while he is cooling his heels awaiting his court date?

Thank you.

I should think ignoring another law might be slightly foolish in his current position.

[grantbkk]

....

People here are over reacting and reading things into the case that are not there. He received a three week lesson in manners and will probably not do another day in jail. He will be blacklisted and deported. As far as making a living, his Facebook profile shows him to be an expert Thai boxer. He can make money at that every night. From his own interview it looks like he has a chip on his shoulder and this could be a good life's lesson for him.

Where did you read this man has a work permit so he can earn money Thai boxing in Thailand?

Perhaps you are not familiar with Thailand and the work permit thing. The WP is required but often goes unenforced. Let's take the English teaching profession for example. I'm not saying this guy should be an English teacher by the way. He seems a bit high strung for teaching Thai children. But I digress. Maybe about half of the English teachers have the required work permit. They take heat every time a John Mark Karr type gets arrested here. The convoluted work permit, visa process makes the requirement too difficult for some hence the laws are ignored. I am not advocating this guy continues to break Thai laws but how will he eat, sleep and prosper while he is cooling his heels awaiting his court date?

Thank you.

I should think ignoring another law might be slightly foolish in his current position.

You are absolutely right and I am not advocating that he break any rules or laws but a man has to have options.

[Jingthing]

Are there some people in Phuket who are willing to step up to the plate and help out this guy with a room, meals, spending money, and a suit of clothes if he needs that for court? I don't care how "rude" he was. He is a victim and if they have this tape (probably don't even need that, its his word against the cops and yes Thailand is racist against black people) he may indeed be going down for two years. We have many expat hotel and restaurant owners. This guy apparently needs help. The other poster is correct, if he gets arrested again for working illegally that will make it even worse.

I have another reason why so many people take the officials side over our brother from the UK. They are deep down afraid inside that the next victim of Thai "justice" could be them. If you build up the case that any foreigner who gets in trouble here is always guilty and always a "bad farang" then you can feel more comfortable and smug that you being a "good farang" are immune from these random acts of injustice. Still, it isn't pretty to watch.

Does anyone reading this thread actually know this guy? If so, you could help relay any helpful offers ...

Based on his description maybe it wouldn't be that difficult to identify him walking the streets. Please help out this guy with some human kindness. It may be some of the only decent living he gets for two years and two years in bad Thai prison is a life threatening experience.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[animatic]

I was hassled for 20 minutes at a Bangkok hotel

because I had a beard in the passport,

and they thought I looked too young in real life.

It was truly idiotic.

[tuky]

Johnny B Goode

...by Chuck Berry?

although I usually am.... sorry, but no

Johnny Are You Queer? - The Go-Go's

Couldn't resist.

[barky]

" Im black so Im used to getting hassle " Tells me all I need to know about this guy. This paired with the interview with " the Voice " tells me we have a guy with a big attitude and a big chip on the shoulder. Back in the UK he is used to calling the race card at every delay or inconvenience. In the UK it works as everybody is so scared of being labelled as a racist. He has just found out that this attitude does not work here in Thailand.

Just my opinion on reading the reports.

I hope that Thailand never gets in the same mess we have in the UK now through PC policies

You could be right here. I would take it a step further by saying I am of the opinion that virtually the only people that are seen as racist are whites, and whites tend to only see (and accuse) one another as racists.

The label racist is invariably levelled at whites only. Very often by whites themselves.

I've never heard of a situation (except maybe on this forum from time to time) when an Asian or a Black or an Arab is publically accused of, and branded as a racist.

It appears anecdotally, that Asians (example Thais) Blacks and Arabs and anyone who is not white caucasian for that matter, are incappable of being racist.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Thaddeus]

I was hassled for 20 minutes at a Bangkok hotel

because I had a beard in the passport

Funny place to keep a beard.

[Jingthing]

I've never heard of a situation (except maybe on this forum from time to time) when an Asian or a Black or an Arab is publically accused of, and branded as a racist.

Informed people realize that racism exists in all ALL cultures.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[barky]

I've never heard of a situation (except maybe on this forum from time to time) when an Asian or a Black or an Arab is publically accused of, and branded as a racist.

Informed people realize that racism exists in all ALL cultures.

Then I guess that makes two of us jingthing. However, me thinks that they really do know, but it's not fashionable (pc) to call a non-white racist

[Moonrakers]

I was hassled for 20 minutes at a Bangkok hotel

because I had a beard in the passport

Funny place to keep a beard.

[Mogli]

I've been reading this thread and I am staggered by the attitude of most of those posting. With the exception of Sabum, JingThing and a few others who have not lost their sanity, the rest of you seem to be delusional and with no knowledge fo the facts as ever yet always err on the side of "he must deserve it"... More Thai than the Thais!

Guys, wake up and smell the coffee! Those of us who have been here a while have all been so irritated by the slow ignorance of Thais on too many occasions, their inability to accept they made a mistake, their hyposcrisy of rules for them and us and the out and out racist behaviour they mostly exhibit given the slightest provocation!

Some proof? OK, hard facts.

Stupid - lowest average IQ in the world (when indexed to GDP) and declining... And yes, University is a farcical charade where cheating is encouraged, absence is normal and only a retard wil not pass. He probably will if his parents pay enough though...

Mistakes - when was the last time you heard a Thai say it was their fault and they are worng? I never did... There is always some magical reason for them being right or misled and we 'foreigners' don't understand after all!

Hypocrisy - all this jai yen yen and mai pen rai suits them but it is easily forgotten when they try to mow you down in their car when you're on the crossing or they use the pavement for their motorbike... We have to be chill while they get angry and then shout and scream after a few words they don't like. Very fair!

Racist - where do you want me to start? All around us, every day, every way, we are reminded we are unwelcome and ONLY here to spend money! It is getting worse too in my time here and it is at a poiint now where the Thais simply hate foreigners...

I stay here (for now) because I have a busines here and lovely family - yes, Thai wife, children with her - but I despair at the way this country is commmitting commercial and political suicide each day. It cannot stay OUT of the news for the wrong reasons and this is another example of the Thais telling us they want LESS tourists as all thios news does is warn peole to stay away even more.

This poor guy got frustrated and said a few bad words but that is it! How does that translate to jail in any civilised country - sorry I forgot, the mobile phones and pick-ups hide the mentailty which is still primeval and wil NEVER change as long as the people are encouraged to stay dumb on a diet of bullshit TV and no books. Yes, the average Thai reads ONE book each year (Thai official stats) compared to over 50 in Vietnam and more in every other neighbouring country! I have only ever seen average Thai read comics - maybe that counts as their book for the year. Tragic...

I hope this guy gets off and avoids jail but how many poeople will he tell about his view of Thailand as do all the others that end up in jail for the simple fact that Thais and their insedcurities and loss of face can't handle looking as stuopid as they really are!

Rant over... But I have not become that Thai yet to have forgotten right and wrong and espoused greed at all cost.

Spot on post.

Must have been around for a while.

And I agree about the 'more Thai than Thais' comment.

[Journalist]

^^Dead right about Thailand being a "Not my fault" culture.

It should be the national motto. Rather than "Land of Smiles" or "Amazing Thailand"

Edited March 4, 2009 by Journalist

[jonclark]

You get the feeling that this country has been so introspect for so long that it's about to disappear up its own backside. Insulting Thailand and Thais - For the love of god get off your high horse. Thais insult every bordering country and their inhabitants and then some.

As for the poor immigration officers who felt offended - my heart bleeds for them. If you work for the government you must be able to deal with all members of the public calmly, rationally and politely - even if they are getting a bit shirty with you.

Go to any job center, social security office etc in UK and the officals there put up with a lot worse than being told to F off.