Chiang Mai Hit By Smog For Five Consecutive Days

[KhunDave]

....so much for our Shangri-La

I guess it all depends on what you compare to...

/ Priceless

Thank you Priceless for your charts. Interesting. It seems that my question has opened up a can of worms here, for which, as a newcomer to the forum, I do apologise. And I am searching really for a fairly simple answer.

I am personally looking for a destination in which to regularly escape the cold UK winters, October to March, and to see sunshine and blue skies most days. Before I learnt about the full extent of the burning and subsequent smog, Chiang Mai was number one on my list.

The whys and wherefores of the pollution are of no concern to me in this personal question (although clearly of huge concern in the overall issue). I only want to to be able to estimate how long I would be likely to still see blue skies and the sun. It seems to be that perhaps I could start to give up hope of that maybe around mid January. If that is the case I would be advised I think to search for a different winter destination. Great pity.

If your resources permit, I would suggest October to mid-February in Chiang Mai and the final six weeks at the beach of your choice. Not too far from perfection IMO.

[chiang mai]

....so much for our Shangri-La

I guess it all depends on what you compare to...

/ Priceless

Thank you Priceless for your charts. Interesting. It seems that my question has opened up a can of worms here, for which, as a newcomer to the forum, I do apologise. And I am searching really for a fairly simple answer.

I am personally looking for a destination in which to regularly escape the cold UK winters, October to March, and to see sunshine and blue skies most days. Before I learnt about the full extent of the burning and subsequent smog, Chiang Mai was number one on my list.

The whys and wherefores of the pollution are of no concern to me in this personal question (although clearly of huge concern in the overall issue). I only want to to be able to estimate how long I would be likely to still see blue skies and the sun. It seems to be that perhaps I could start to give up hope of that maybe around mid January. If that is the case I would be advised I think to search for a different winter destination. Great pity.

You were not to know that this has been a long running debate in this forum and some of the regular contributors have resurfaced to enjoin the good fight once again!

But as far as your request goes: October through January in CM would not be a bad idea at all since that's probably the best time of the year, as far as I am concerned anyway. By mid January it can start to get very hot indeed and elements of the "burning season" become apparent around that time also. So why not consider splitting your time between CM and one of the beaches in the South, just as another poster suggested? January through March in say Krabi province or the islands would be perfect at that time of the year.

[Humbugcat]

....so much for our Shangri-La

I guess it all depends on what you compare to...

/ Priceless

Thank you Priceless for your charts. Interesting. It seems that my question has opened up a can of worms here, for which, as a newcomer to the forum, I do apologise. And I am searching really for a fairly simple answer.

I am personally looking for a destination in which to regularly escape the cold UK winters, October to March, and to see sunshine and blue skies most days. Before I learnt about the full extent of the burning and subsequent smog, Chiang Mai was number one on my list.

The whys and wherefores of the pollution are of no concern to me in this personal question (although clearly of huge concern in the overall issue). I only want to to be able to estimate how long I would be likely to still see blue skies and the sun. It seems to be that perhaps I could start to give up hope of that maybe around mid January. If that is the case I would be advised I think to search for a different winter destination. Great pity.

If your resources permit, I would suggest October to mid-February in Chiang Mai and the final six weeks at the beach of your choice. Not too far from perfection IMO.

Yes it does sound close to perfection, yet I guess the accommodation for the final 6 weeks would hike the cost up considerably from the cost of a single 6 month rental contract. Shame.

[KevinHunt]

Thank you Priceless for your charts. Interesting. It seems that my question has opened up a can of worms here, for which, as a newcomer to the forum, I do apologise. And I am searching really for a fairly simple answer.

I downloaded a picture of a can of worms specifically for use on this forum!! It comes in very handy.

There are few simple answers in life and far fewer here.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate recomending anyone to spend October to March in Chiang Mai. The air-pollution in late February does bother some folk, but it doesn't bother me enough to want to leave. I play tennis 3 times a week and it doesn't affect me, so that I notice. Bear in mind that I've been likened to an ostrich twice already this week.

[Ulysses G.]

The air-pollution in late February does bother some folk, but it doesn't bother me enough to want to leave. I play tennis 3 times a week and it doesn't affect me, so that I notice.

Be careful, or you will be accused of lying so that tourists will keep coming to visit your business.

I don't like smokey season and I would be pleased if it went away, but, on the other hand, it does not bother me all that much. It is almost impossible to convince some folks that it is just a minor annoyance to quite a few of us.

[KevinHunt]

The air-pollution in late February does bother some folk, but it doesn't bother me enough to want to leave. I play tennis 3 times a week and it doesn't affect me, so that I notice.

Be careful, or you will be accused of lying so that tourists will keep coming to visit your business.

I don't like smokey season and I would be pleased if it went away, but, on the other hand, it does not bother me all that much. It is almost impossible to convince some folks that it is just a minor annoyance to quite a few of us.

I find it surprising how often people will assume there must be some kind of ulterior motive when someone merely has a different opinion. It's either that or the old 'Ostrich' nugget. The reality is we're all right. It bothers some and it doesn't bother others.

All together now ...  'You say ee-ther and I say i-ther'.......

Let's call the whole thing off!!

[gatorhead333]

The air-pollution in late February does bother some folk, but it doesn't bother me enough to want to leave. I play tennis 3 times a week and it doesn't affect me, so that I notice.

Be careful, or you will be accused of lying so that tourists will keep coming to visit your business.

I don't like smokey season and I would be pleased if it went away, but, on the other hand, it does not bother me all that much. It is almost impossible to convince some folks that it is just a minor annoyance to quite a few of us.

hey Ug....

everybody needs to look at this as a positive ! like going to disneyworld...

where else can we enjoy the fun of a almost for real life "nuclear winter" with out everybody dying of radiation ?

this is a true tourist attraction if promoted properly.

"ya all come on to Chiang Mai!!

bring the kids!!

experince first hand a real life "nuclear winter" with out the headache of a rather painful, immediate, certain death!

come see only several feet in front of your face.... in the light of day!!

Good clean fun for the family! Make it a science week for the kiddies ...

just to let everybody know this was a goof. a joke.. o.k. ?? maybe a terrible sad joke.

Edited August 5, 2009 by gatorhead333

[PeaceBlondie]

Jan. and Feb. are not hot:

Month Avg. High Avg. Low Avg. Precip

January 29.0° C 14.0° C 0.76 cm

February 32.0° C 16.0° C 0.51 cm

Unless you're acclimated to Aberdeen

[Mapguy]

My goodness!!!! Here we go again!!! Might as well strip and dive into the pool with everyone else!

Kevin, welcome back! Perhaps the seasonal pollution doesn't bother you much, but has it helped your tennis serve?! I don't think so!

UG, isn't it nice to have an ally in Kevin, another friendly local merchant rightly concerned about tourism ??!! Yeah, rigggghhhhhttttt, the air pollution doesn't bother anyone any more than smokers bothered by other smokers in a bar! And, in a restaurant, it adds a certain je n'est sai quoi! to the taste of the carpaccio like the 2-cycle engine tuk tuk fumes spewed into your food at the outside tables at one of your (and others') favorite restaurants on Loy Khroh! Liar? Nobody is calling you a liar, but you might think about getting your filters cleaned! And don't miss any annual checkups!

Priceless, welcome back with your graph (appearing somewhere above)! It is mostly how others interpret your data with which I have significant disagreement. Sometimes it is your poor choice of presentation of such data and your often stubborn reliance upon such data alone (such as it is) without balancing them (and analysis of them) against common sense and experience. Statistical analysis can be a shaky business! It is the imperfect nature of scientific inquiry that the tobacco company lawyers made fortunes off of for years before they finally were nailed. And it wasn't really the scientific data that finally nailed those lawyers. It was a general public appreciation of a marriage of science with common sense and experience! Whatever! I hope you continue to do what you do, as I have often said. I just hope you are careful in how you present it and guard against people misusing it out of innocence, momentary hyperbolic rage, guilty design or sheer stubbornness. After all, it was all those asinine newspaper headlines like "Chiang Mai Is the Most Polluted Place in Thailand" and miscellaneous TV Chiang Mai poster vomit that got you riled up in the first place! And me, too.

Over to you, guys!

[Priceless]

Is everyone missing the obvious here? It hasn't rained much for quite a few days! Actually, rainfall all season seems to have been very light; have had to go back to watering the grass again

A good couple of hours downpour and things will revert to normal.

BTW, I see India is also experiencing problems with the monsoon this year, flooding in some places with dorught in others in an abnormal pattern.

Oh, so the air quality in CM is acceptable as long as it rains every couple of days, otherwise folks might wish to consider leaving in order to preserve their health? Yes, that sort of fits with that very tiresome and somewhat dubious graph.

As usual you are going a bit too far, but it is true that rain does improve the air quality. This is probably one of the reasons why you prefer the Phuket air. Phuket has on average 182 rainy days/year (according to the Thai Meteorological Department), i.e. it rains every second day. The corresponding figure for Chiang Mai is 118 days/year, i.e. slightly less than every third day. This was probably a strongly contributing factor in the very bad pollution of 2007. There was absolutely no rain from the end of October of 2006 to late April 2007, in addition to a very persistent inversion in February/March 2007.

Could you please explain what is "somewhat dubious" about the graph, apart from the fact that you don't like what it shows?

/ Priceless

You must be really bored Priceless to want to go down this same road again! Do we really have to regurgitate al the same arguments yet again.

No, we don't need to "regurgitate al the same arguments yet again". I'd just like to point out two things:

- There has, over the years, been a lot of discussion about the burning of agricultural waste. There has however, as far as I can recall, been very little discussion about the relative importance of precipitation (i.e. rain).

- You quite frequently say things like "that very tiresome and somewhat dubious graph". As far as I can recall though, you have never shown the common courtesy of specifying what is "dubious" about it, or any other facts that I've posted.

May I suggest that you either specify your objections, or stay in your rainy Phuket and cease your participation in the Chiang Mai discussions since you obviously have nothing of value to add.

/ Priceless

[gatorhead333]

My Don, why have you forsaken me?

Bless me with your wisdom . A mere tad perhaps, a itty bitty, tynnie wennie, tid-bit could you kindly spare??

bestow a blessing i beg of you...

[Donnyboy]

....and now we must pause for our mid thread break, could I recommend a tune from the aptly named Smoke City

[Mapguy]

Oh, so the air quality in CM is acceptable as long as it rains every couple of days, otherwise folks might wish to consider leaving in order to preserve their health? Yes, that sort of fits with that very tiresome and somewhat dubious graph.

As usual you are going a bit too far, but it is true that rain does improve the air quality. This is probably one of the reasons why you prefer the Phuket air. Phuket has on average 182 rainy days/year (according to the Thai Meteorological Department), i.e. it rains every second day. The corresponding figure for Chiang Mai is 118 days/year, i.e. slightly less than every third day. This was probably a strongly contributing factor in the very bad pollution of 2007. There was absolutely no rain from the end of October of 2006 to late April 2007, in addition to a very persistent inversion in February/March 2007.

Could you please explain what is "somewhat dubious" about the graph, apart from the fact that you don't like what it shows?

/ Priceless

You must be really bored Priceless to want to go down this same road again! Do we really have to regurgitate al the same arguments yet again.

No, we don't need to "regurgitate al the same arguments yet again". I'd just like to point out two things:

- There has, over the years, been a lot of discussion about the burning of agricultural waste. There has however, as far as I can recall, been very little discussion about the relative importance of precipitation (i.e. rain).

- You quite frequently say things like "that very tiresome and somewhat dubious graph". As far as I can recall though, you have never shown the common courtesy of specifying what is "dubious" about it, or any other facts that I've posted.

May I suggest that you either specify your objections, or stay in your rainy Phuket and cease your participation in the Chiang Mai discussions since you obviously have nothing of value to add.

/ Priceless

Why are you two guys bothering to get so dam_n snippy ?

Trouble really is that sh_it really does does happen here in Chiang Mai! Just clean the top of your wall around your house, the top of your refrigerator, or the filter in your air conditioner.

Some persistent regulars on this site keep insisting that Chiang Mai's historical and persistent (PM<10 particulate matter) seasonal (basically mid-February to early April, at its worst) air pollution doesn't bother everyone. That's valid, but I also had a relative who lived until she was 95 despite smoking two packs a day!

OP has said that all he wanted was blue skies to visit and ignore the worries of work and the world. A lot of people unfortunately haven't that luxury. What about folks who live and work here, most much too dam_n poor to "winter" here or "summer" there!

[KevinHunt]

My goodness!!!! Here we go again!!! Might as well strip and dive into the pool with everyone else!

Kevin, welcome back! Perhaps the seasonal pollution doesn't bother you much, but has it helped your tennis serve?! I don't think so!

??? What can I say???

UG, isn't it nice to have an ally in Kevin, another friendly local merchant rightly concerned about tourism

There's that 'ulterior motive' argument again. It couldn't possibly be a difference of opinion could it?

BTW - do you play tennis? Maybe you should.

Edited August 5, 2009 by KevinHunt

[greytown]

Anyone got pictures of Chiang Mai in the smog?

[zzaa09]

As the locals were field burning some 100 years ago as they are today, wonder what the thoughts and concerns were back then?

well a 100 years ago the average life expectancy in Thailand was probably 35 years or less.

Are you sure of this? Documentation? Probably not......I'm sure your making s**t up as you go. My initial comment was a twisted reference to the modern politics regarding this field burning and associated smoke - usually by whinging and whining Farang.

[Ulysses G.]

Mapguy Posted today 2009 08 06

UG, isn't it nice to have an ally in Kevin, another friendly local merchant rightly concerned about tourism

There's that 'ulterior motive' argument again. It couldn't possibly be a difference of opinion could it?

Madguy has been repeating this lying bit of propoganda like a mantra for years, but as usual, he is completely full of sheeet - Insight about anything, is not exactly his forte' - and of course, he completely ignores all the many other working and non-working expats who feel exactly the same as we do.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Priceless, welcome back with your graph (appearing somewhere above)! It is mostly how others interpret your data with which I have significant disagreement...

Maybe you have forgotten that Priceless placed you on his "ignore" list back when you started stalking him a while ago, so he can't see your posts or your PMs.

I don't want you to waste any of your valuable time.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[chiang mai]

For Priceless - apologies that I am unable to quote previous text but I'm having system difficulties this morning it seems:

You know only too well Priceless the issues I have with some of the graphs you display here, but for the record and for the benefit of anyone else who does not know, I don't believe that they are truly representative of the air quality in CM. How can they possibly be so when the data on which they are based is drawn from one single fixed monitoring station and one mobile station - I do not believe that sampling of that size can possibly be representative of the air quality in CM - for me that's akin to taking one persons temperature and suggesting that everyone in the city has the same reading.

Secondly, viewers of the graphs can be forgiven for believing that they show the difference in air quality between four different locations in Thailand and drawing a conclusion that the air quality in CM is often better than some beach locations. Maybe that is the case but as far as I can see that is not a valid conclusion since only PM10 and not PM2.5 readings are captured and measured. Since PM2.5 is arguably a far more dangerous threat, measuring PM10 in isolation and basing conclusions on that reading alone is not helpful.

Finally, on the subject of overall air quality: over time we have debated rigorously the issue of air quality in CM and frequently mentioned the viewpoint of the medical profession regarding pollution related illnesses. Prominent doctors at local hospitals have written articles concerning the rate of new cancer cases in the North, the numbers of deaths from heart and respiratory disease and many individuals have provided anecdotal evidence confirming the impact of poor air quality on their health. But you largely dismiss such data and refer back to your graphs as the sole source of authoritative evidence because no large scale well organized and managed survey of those things has been undertaken. As a statistician and a purist you are perhaps right to ignore the "hearsay", but anyone wishing to understand the true state of the air quality in CM will certainly not ignore such things. In summary, your graphs are misleading and present a barrier to understanding the true picture rather than becoming a part of it.

[gatorhead333]

whats up with this thread? all piles of mudpies. no beef no nothing... as in wheres the beef... oh yeh that is the burger thread..

i was begging for blessed wisdom and got none.

Field burning is only a part of it but please try to open your eyes as you drive your car into CM.. remember the cars,trucks buses they were not here 100 years ago in fact 30 years ago when i first came here to the mountain and saw the light there were few roads much less cars butt to butt back to back..

remember the dozens of dry kilns burning the cut off waste of teak wood,saw dust bellowing out toxic fumes drying the teak rain forest we cut down more and more of each and every week ,so bon ta kwai merchants can sell cheap, low grade furniture destined to crack to the tourist and expats .

remember the pottery kilns blasting the toxic gasses..

remember all the other factories running on burning wood for this reason or that

Finally, to solve this problem it ain't going to be gabbing about out of office good looking lady mayors or mudpies on the world all piled up crying about some ones graph.

Also all the graphs in the universe do not do anything either except upset the mudpies to the point of more pointless piles.

TO SOLVE TE PROBLEM: you would have to beat down ,ostly Burma and China some since air currents flow in that envelope CM with toxic fumes from burning off field in Burma and smoke pollution from China maybe some too. When the low pressure(weatherman term) comes in at the same time CM is justs screwed. all the mudpies can yell at God for this one...

it is both human and Godly acts in a blessed combination stew that causes this mess !

so the good looking not in office mayor and all the mudpies piles are just passing more toxic gass

so buy a gas mask and enjoy CM beautiful, fun nuclear winters.

Edited August 6, 2009 by gatorhead333

[Ulysses G.]

My Don, why have you forsaken me?

Bless me with your wisdom . A mere tad perhaps, a itty bitty, tynnie wennie, tid-bit could you kindly spare??

bestow a blessing i beg of you...

Who is "Don"?

[gatorhead333]

My Don, why have you forsaken me?

Bless me with your wisdom . A mere tad perhaps, a itty bitty, tynnie wennie, tid-bit could you kindly spare??

bestow a blessing i beg of you...

Who is "Don"?

u ever see the god father movie? well he gives out forgiveness and he grates life or death for some... the Don.

then we got this guy posting his blessing to individuals one at a time on TV kinda like the Don ,all important serious ,, did i say important?..

so i was just joking again...

u know uG i hope you know, life is just a joke.... and parts of life are really big jokes. u must know or you will blow.

as in blow up.... explode.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe, but God has a lousy sense of humor!

[gatorhead333]

it seems the piles of mudpies on TV have no humor in their heart either..

poor mudpies going to maybe blow

[Ulysses G.]

Don't worry, Mudpie loves complaining about pollution. It is even more fun than complaining about restaurant threads!

Edited August 6, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[KhunDave]

Is it really 6th August? Feels a lot like 6th March to me.....

[Donnyboy]

Anyone got pictures of Chiang Mai in the smog?

Edited August 6, 2009 by Donnyboy

[Donnyboy]

Maybe, but God has a lousy sense of humor!

dont worry UG, The Don will talk to him about making all this smoke go away....

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse

Edited August 6, 2009 by Donnyboy

[gatorhead333]

Maybe, but God has a lousy sense of humor!

dont worry UG, The Don will talk to him about making all this smoke go away....

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse

my cat sees dead people.....

Edited August 6, 2009 by gatorhead333

[greytown]

Anyone got pictures of Chiang Mai in the smog?

Thanks Donnyboy for the pics!