Looking for a Suzuki Caribian

[Jingthing]

This current severe economic downturn which started in America has exposed some real life villains. No one more so than Bernie Madoff. Now in China when there is some kind of major business or industrial crime the state makes a big public spectacle of it and usually executes them. Presumably, that has a cleansing effect on the society at large and makes people feel better. Part of the spiral of doom of the economy is real and part of it is panic and gloom and fear. Wouldn't it help to turn the bad mood around to take a hint from the Chinese. So the question is, suppose a guillotine was constructed and Bernie Madoff was beheaded on live action tv as a major world media event, would it be good for at least 1000 point rally on the Dow? That way, he could pay back what he stole.

OK, I realize this sounds inhumane. But assuming he is guilty, his crimes are severe and for a man accustomed to his style of living going to prison probably for life is a fate worse than death anyway.

Just asking.

If they did it,would you watch it? Would you pay to watch it?

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[scottyd]

I don't know who he is, but I think killing a man is a bit harsh. Maybe just get someone to dog him live on TV, I bet that would bring in a fair bit of cash.

[Jingthing]

If you were old and could not work anymore and someone stole your entire life savings, would you think it so harsh?

[scottyd]

No. You do realise it is killing a man, removing life, obsolete, dead, not coming back? And for what? Because he stole some money from old people?

If someone stole money from me, yes i'd want to give them a good kicking if I got my hands on them, but killing them, no thanks.

Plus he stole from old people, they wouldn't need the money for much longer anyways would they?

[Jingthing]

Scotty, I know what dead is. Its clear you don't know who Bernie Madoff is and why he wears a bullet proof vest.

[OriginalPoster]

This current severe economic downturn which started in America has exposed some real life villains. No one more so than Bernie Madoff. Now in China when there is some kind of major business or industrial crime the state makes a big public spectacle of it and usually executes them. Presumably, that has a cleansing effect on the society at large and makes people feel better. Part of the spiral of doom of the economy is real and part of it is panic and gloom and fear. Wouldn't it help to turn the bad mood around to take a hint from the Chinese. So the question is, suppose a guillotine was constructed and Bernie Madoff was beheaded on live action tv as a major world media event, would it be good for at least 1000 point rally on the Dow? That way, he could pay back what he stole.

OK, I realize this sounds inhumane. But assuming he is guilty, his crimes are severe and for a man accustomed to his style of living going to prison probably for life is a fate worse than death anyway.

Just asking.

If they did it,would you watch it? Would you pay to watch it?

By any chance, are you Card Carrying Member of the ACLU with a fondness of parody?

[Chaimai]

As much as I would like to string Madoff (and a few others) up by their gonads I think it is a step too far.

Their are laws in place that should ensure that punishment is proportionate to the crime. Death - and a public one at that - is excessive in a civilised world.

I would, however, be looking at how so many people keep 'beating the system'. Infact I would aslo be looking closelt at 'the system'

[scottyd]

I told you in my first post that I didn't know who he is. But lets look at this sensibly:

Killing him and broadcasting it to make back some money, fair enough, but you will have still killed a man and probably made back nowhere near what he stole.

or

Keep him alive, but use him as a monkey to make money over various pay per view events. You have not killed anyone, and you can keep doing repeat events recouping stolen money. Then you can release the man. Everybody is happy. Bar the probably sodomised Bernie Madoff, but he can be grateful he is alive.

I could solve the worlds problems if I cared.

[Jingthing]

By any chance, are you Card Carrying Member of the ACLU with a fondness of parody?

I am both but my question was sincere. I am not sure it is such a bad idea and if it turned the market around, it would have a kind of poetic justice. Being for civil liberties does not mean tolerance for people who steal people's life savings, the opposite in fact.

[scottyd]

Being for civil liberties does not mean tolerance for people who steal people's life savings, the opposite in fact.

So it is ok to kill this guy for stealing, but rapists and murderers can live. Sounds like you have the justice game wrapped up.

[Jingthing]

Being for civil liberties does not mean tolerance for people who steal people's life savings, the opposite in fact.

So it is ok to kill this guy for stealing, but rapists and murderers can live. Sounds like you have the justice game wrapped up.

If you are really asking, the problem I have with capital punishment in the US is twofold. Blacks get the brunt of it. Mostly poor blacks who don't have the money to pay for good lawyers. So it is a form of racism because it is not applied fairly across the races. Also, too many cases of innocent people being killed by the state. I am pretty sure Madoff is NOT innocent (I think he is pleading guilty). He also has the best lawyers money can buy, which he is buying with STOLEN money.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

By any chance, are you Card Carrying Member of the ACLU with a fondness of parody?

I am both but my question was sincere. I am not sure it is such a bad idea and if it turned the market around, it would have a kind of poetic justice. Being for civil liberties does not mean tolerance for people who steal people's life savings, the opposite in fact.

"ACLU Member for the Death Penalty" must be one of those small clubs, much as "Vegetarians for Reagan" was.

[Jingthing]

"ACLU Member for the Death Penalty" must be one of those small clubs, much as "Vegetarians for Reagan" was.

Fair enough. I am not a strict ideologue. Case by case.

[scottyd]

I got completely lost when racism got brought into the equation, I thought Bernie was white? I don't even know what we are discussing now.

edit spelling

Edited March 11, 2009 by scottyd

[OriginalPoster]

Being for civil liberties does not mean tolerance for people who steal people's life savings, the opposite in fact.

So it is ok to kill this guy for stealing, but rapists and murderers can live. Sounds like you have the justice game wrapped up.

If you are really asking, the problem I have with capital punishment in the US is twofold. Blacks get the brunt of it. Mostly poor blacks who don't have the money to pay for good lawyers. So it is a form of racism because it is not applied fairly across the races. Also, too many cases of innocent people being killed by the state. I am pretty sure Madoff is NOT innocent (I think he is pleading guilty). He also has the best lawyers money can buy, which he is buying with STOLEN money.

Great, so instead of applying the death penalty predominantly to poor blacks we're going to target rich Jews instead? I sure you can see the slippery slope in that.

Edited March 11, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

Great, so instead of applying the death penalty predominantly to poor blacks we're going to target rich Jews instead? I sure you can see the slippery slope in that.

Just Bernie. He is a special case. It wouldn't matter if he was a Martian, it is what he did. Who said anything about targeting Jews? Just Bernie. And similar white collar financial criminals whatever they are. They can all afford good lawyers. I agree it would be unfortunate if they were mostly Jews, but this has nothing to do with antisemitism. These are extreme times and the people may want to see that we are really turning a corner. Coddling the likes of Madoff (how is it that he was allowed to stay in his penthouse for several months) does not give the message that the scandals that happened on wall street won't happen again. I believe the people do not yet believe that the system will be changed to prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again. And that is adding to the gloom and economic pain all over the planet.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ijustwannateach]

I told you in my first post that I didn't know who he is. But lets look at this sensibly:

Killing him and broadcasting it to make back some money, fair enough, but you will have still killed a man and probably made back nowhere near what he stole.

or

Keep him alive, but use him as a monkey to make money over various pay per view events. You have not killed anyone, and you can keep doing repeat events recouping stolen money. Then you can release the man. Everybody is happy. Bar the probably sodomised Bernie Madoff, but he can be grateful he is alive.

I could solve the worlds problems if I cared.

This made me laugh! Yes, line me up with the 'torture and exploit Bernie Madoff (but keep him alive to suffer for his many crimes)' contingent.

[scottyd]

What makes him a special case? Because he stole from more people than usual? Or because he stole a great big ammount?

If you legally kill someone publicly, a legal execution. Do you really think it will stop there? No it won't, there will be more "special cases" popping up more often, until it is the norm, and applys to everybody.

When it comes down to this, the poor you so valiantly are trying to protect and gain justice for will be feeling the repercussions. Just like when taxation was brought in to penalise the rich, look who suffers from it now.

[Jingthing]

BTW, the people who would most like revenge against Bernie Madoff are OTHER Jews. The vast majority of his victims were fellow Jews. Are they antisemitic? I think not.

I think on the dollar amount alone, Bernie Madoff is the biggest thief in the history of the world. Of course that excludes politicians.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

This current severe economic downturn which started in America has exposed some real life villains. No one more so than Bernie Madoff. Now in China when there is some kind of major business or industrial crime the state makes a big public spectacle of it and usually executes them. Presumably, that has a cleansing effect on the society at large and makes people feel better. Part of the spiral of doom of the economy is real and part of it is panic and gloom and fear. Wouldn't it help to turn the bad mood around to take a hint from the Chinese. So the question is, suppose a guillotine was constructed and Bernie Madoff was beheaded on live action tv as a major world media event, would it be good for at least 1000 point rally on the Dow? That way, he could pay back what he stole.

OK, I realize this sounds inhumane. But assuming he is guilty, his crimes are severe and for a man accustomed to his style of living going to prison probably for life is a fate worse than death anyway.

Just asking.

If they did it,would you watch it? Would you pay to watch it?

No I wouldn't watch it and no I wouldn't pay to watch it. I'd pay to put as much distance between you and me as was possible on the face of the earth. Are you seriously suggesting that it's acceptable to transmit public beheadings on television?

[jumnien]

I haven't heard that Madoff stole money from anyone. He asked for money to invest and lied about where it was going. Due diligence and common sense would easily of steered folks clear of him. He is turning out to be a hero to many people having exposed the corrupt and lame money managers around the globe that filtered money from trusting fools into his investment schemes.

[flying]

Punishment should fit the crime...............

So along those lines I would have Bernie's hands cut off....Both of them..Maybe his tongue too

Same would hold true for many bankers...investment firms etc.

Of course for the Fed & the creators of mortgage bundles their punishment for screwing the economy would be different

For them we would hack off a different body part. Same for GWB he loses little George

But death for none of them as that is far too good for them.

Edited March 12, 2009 by flying

[MiG16]

Im closing this thread.

You may argue that it has some links to Thailand in that the global downturn affects Thailand.

However, suggestion condoning violence, and asking opinions from members on such a violent view is certainly against forum rules, no matter how hypothetical.