Powerful Amulet

[camerata]

I came across this story in a review of The Last Executioner at thaiprisonlife.com:

"Between 1984 and 2002, Chavoret Jaruboon shot dead 55 prisoners. In his autobiography, "The Last Executioner", he describes some of the more notable cases. Two stories in particular stand out. One of them was of the execution of a man who pleaded his innocence right up to the last moment. He said that the real guilty party was the son of a policeman and that he was beaten into making a confession. During his execution, it looked like he was almost being saved by divine providence. When Chavoret pulled the trigger the gun jammed and it wouldn’t fire. He checked the gun but couldn’t see any reason why it wouldn’t fire. They then set up the spare machine gun. After it was carefully aimed, Chavoret then pulled the trigger. But, this one jammed too. The prisoner might have been saved, however, a quick thinking guard decided to search the prisoner more thoroughly. They then found a Buddhist amulet called Luang Phor Daeng hidden in his right armpit. They do say that some amulets are powerful enough to protect you from bullets. Or maybe the monk, whose image was on this amulet, was trying to protect an innocent man. Anyway, once the amulet was removed the gun became unjammed and the prisoner was executed."

[TexasRanger]

He checked the gun but couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't fire.

Because "Jams" are usually to do with the ammunition not the weapon. I am afraid that the thought of an amulet being able to stop weapons from firing is an absurd notion, but then one has to wonder about how executing so many people might have affected his mental state anyway.

[phetaroi]

I came across this story in a review of The Last Executioner at thaiprisonlife.com:

"Between 1984 and 2002, Chavoret Jaruboon shot dead 55 prisoners. In his autobiography, "The Last Executioner", he describes some of the more notable cases. Two stories in particular stand out. One of them was of the execution of a man who pleaded his innocence right up to the last moment. He said that the real guilty party was the son of a policeman and that he was beaten into making a confession. During his execution, it looked like he was almost being saved by divine providence. When Chavoret pulled the trigger the gun jammed and it wouldn't fire. He checked the gun but couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't fire. They then set up the spare machine gun. After it was carefully aimed, Chavoret then pulled the trigger. But, this one jammed too. The prisoner might have been saved, however, a quick thinking guard decided to search the prisoner more thoroughly. They then found a Buddhist amulet called Luang Phor Daeng hidden in his right armpit. They do say that some amulets are powerful enough to protect you from bullets. Or maybe the monk, whose image was on this amulet, was trying to protect an innocent man. Anyway, once the amulet was removed the gun became unjammed and the prisoner was executed."

Although I can't find the story right now, it seems as if I recall a story about foreign ambassadors (perhaps back in Lopburi?) being shown a demonstration of how an amulet would stop a bullet.

[TexasRanger]

Although I can't find the story right now, it seems as if I recall a story about foreign ambassadors (perhaps back in Lopburi?) being shown a demonstration of how an amulet would stop a bullet.

I think if this were true then it would be world news and kevlar would be a thing of the past.

[mc2]

I came across this story in a review of The Last Executioner at thaiprisonlife.com:

"Between 1984 and 2002, Chavoret Jaruboon shot dead 55 prisoners. In his autobiography, "The Last Executioner", he describes some of the more notable cases. Two stories in particular stand out. One of them was of the execution of a man who pleaded his innocence right up to the last moment. He said that the real guilty party was the son of a policeman and that he was beaten into making a confession. During his execution, it looked like he was almost being saved by divine providence. When Chavoret pulled the trigger the gun jammed and it wouldn't fire. He checked the gun but couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't fire. They then set up the spare machine gun. After it was carefully aimed, Chavoret then pulled the trigger. But, this one jammed too. The prisoner might have been saved, however, a quick thinking guard decided to search the prisoner more thoroughly. They then found a Buddhist amulet called Luang Phor Daeng hidden in his right armpit. They do say that some amulets are powerful enough to protect you from bullets. Or maybe the monk, whose image was on this amulet, was trying to protect an innocent man. Anyway, once the amulet was removed the gun became unjammed and the prisoner was executed."

thats a really sad ending. i was hoping the guy would escape somehow.

if he was clever he would have stuck it up his arse like in pulp fiction

Edited March 16, 2009 by mc2

[phetaroi]

Although I can't find the story right now, it seems as if I recall a story about foreign ambassadors (perhaps back in Lopburi?) being shown a demonstration of how an amulet would stop a bullet.

I think if this were true then it would be world news and kevlar would be a thing of the past.

I didn't say it was true...I said it was a "story" and I thought it was in the Lopburi historic period.

[SeerObserver]

He checked the gun but couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't fire.

Because "Jams" are usually to do with the ammunition not the weapon. I am afraid that the thought of an amulet being able to stop weapons from firing is an absurd notion, but then one has to wonder about how executing so many people might have affected his mental state anyway.

Even with that being the case, it is an unlikely "coincidence" that 2 bullets in a row from different weapons would fail to fire.

Although I can't find the story right now, it seems as if I recall a story about foreign ambassadors (perhaps back in Lopburi?) being shown a demonstration of how an amulet would stop a bullet.

I think if this were true then it would be world news and kevlar would be a thing of the past.

When a phenomenon like this occurs, a person's karma is also factored in. Devadatta would have been swallowed by the earth regardless of any amulet he was wearing.

[desertrat]

I'm a Dawkins, Sam Harris, Bill Maher guy, but do try to see some benefits of the religious, (not easy).

Please tell me..Does this amulet nonsense have anything to do with Buddhism.?

[phetaroi]

I'm a Dawkins, Sam Harris, Bill Maher guy, but do try to see some benefits of the religious, (not easy).

Please tell me..Does this amulet nonsense have anything to do with Buddhism.?

I'm reading a book right now that I think would argue "yes" to your question. "Inside Thai Society" (Mulder) posits that Buddhism "is not a supernatural manifestation of goodness -- although the Buddha as a person is sometimes seen as such -- but is rather a path that cultivates goodness and morality as instruments leading to wisdom, equanimity, and ultimately to liberation...the Buddhist path is merely suggesting how to go about it." Mulder talks about amulets and makes it clear they began in pre-Buddhist animist times, but here is the key point: "In the Thai frame of mind, animistic expression, magic, and popular Buddhism deal essentially with the tenuous order of saksit, plus the chaotic realm of evil powers, and these religious expressions should be understood as one complex."

[camerata]

Please tell me..Does this amulet nonsense have anything to do with Buddhism.?

It has a lot to do with "popular Buddhism," but nothing to do with Buddhist doctrine.

[camerata]

The most rational explanation of the anecdote that I can think of is that the first gun jammed and (although the second gun jamming is not an impossible coincidence if it was rarely used) the author of the book embellished what happened to make it more interesting. If he shot 55 people he obviously wasn't keeping the 5 Precepts and presumably wouldn't balk at some bending of the truth. I imagine many of the condemned would try to sneak an amulet into the execution room for comfort, if not protection, so no surprise there.

Luang Phor Daeng (1878-1974) was famed for his powerful protective amulets and tagroots, beginning when he protected farmers' livestock from a plague in 1934 that was killing all their animals. He lived in violent Petchaburi province, so his amulets were much appreciated. Needless to say, genuine LP Daeng amulets are worth a lot of money now.

[TexasRanger]

Even with that being the case, it is an unlikely "coincidence" that 2 bullets in a row from different weapons would fail to fire.

Not at all, I was regularly firing weapons for 17 years and on firing ranges it is not uncommon for multiple shooters to have jams, that is why dealing with a jam or misfire is part of personal weapons drill, it is a very common thing, but I could see how someone looking for "something else" could relate it to the amulet. We all know the stock that Thai people place in amulets and such like.

I would love to know why they felt the need to use a "machine gun" to perform executions.

[SeerObserver]

Even with that being the case, it is an unlikely "coincidence" that 2 bullets in a row from different weapons would fail to fire.

Not at all, I was regularly firing weapons for 17 years and on firing ranges it is not uncommon for multiple shooters to have jams, that is why dealing with a jam or misfire is part of personal weapons drill, it is a very common thing, but I could see how someone looking for "something else" could relate it to the amulet. We all know the stock that Thai people place in amulets and such like.

I would love to know why they felt the need to use a "machine gun" to perform executions.

Yeah the machine gun sounds a bit much...an imprecise weapon for that purpose as well.

[Pakeha]

I have an amulet (actually I have a lot but several vey special ones) which protects me from being cut by knifes and swords. I have another one that protects me from drowning.

Unfortunately I don't have one that protects from bullets although they do exist.

My brother in law had one of the amulets that protects against bullets mentioned by the OP which his father gave to him. It was said to be worth one million baht. Sadly it was stolen quite a few years back. Strangely he was shot not long after it was stolen - true story! He lived.

Many Thais do believe in the power of these amulets. I know many who swear by their power and don't take kindly to scepticism.

I have to admit I have not tested the 'power' of mine nor do I intend to.

[Pakeha]

I would love to know why they felt the need to use a "machine gun" to perform executions.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Bangkok Hilton"? Watch it.

[TexasRanger]

I have an amulet (actually I have a lot but several vey special ones) which protects me from being cut by knifes and swords. I have another one that protects me from drowning.

Unfortunately I don't have one that protects from bullets although they do exist.

My brother in law had one of the amulets that protects against bullets mentioned by the OP which his father gave to him. It was said to be worth one million baht. Sadly it was stolen quite a few years back. Strangely he was shot not long after it was stolen - true story! He lived.

Many Thais do believe in the power of these amulets. I know many who swear by their power and don't take kindly to scepticism.

I have to admit I have not tested the 'power' of mine nor do I intend to.

I respect your personal beliefs but my logical brain cannot accept that an amulet can protect you from being cut or drowning.

[Pakeha]

I respect your personal beliefs but my logical brain cannot accept that an amulet can protect you from being cut or drowning.

Thanks TexasRanger. Like I said - I haven't tested them, nor do I intend to if you get my drift .

[rockyysdt]

I would love to know why they felt the need to use a "machine gun" to perform executions.

Up until 1934 condemned prisoners had their head cut off from behind.

From 1934 until 2001 a single executioner would shoot the condemned prisoner in the back with a mounted machine gun.

As a screen, with a target placed on it, separated the executioner and the victim a machine gun made sure the job was completed.

[SeerObserver]

Copied and pasted from THIS THREAD on a similar topic.

By nature, we're visual creatures. So it would follow that visual cues serve as reminders, so to speak. There is no doubt that Buddha images and Wat related things have an impact on our mindset. The same can be said of amulets. Some people wear them out of faith in their maker/blesser and/or powers that they possess. The people who aren't into that who wear amulets do so as a reminder of virtue. Seeing your amulet, feeling it on your person, etc., has a profound effect that can affect choices you make, actions, etc.

[adjan jb]

Please tell me..Does this amulet nonsense have anything to do with Buddhism.?

It has a lot to do with "popular Buddhism," but nothing to do with Buddhist doctrine.

Isn't "popular Buddhism" another name for superstition?

[phetaroi]

Isn't "popular Buddhism" another name for superstition?

First, if there wasn't "popular Buddhism" (or Christianity, etc.), then I doubt the concept would have survived several thousand years.

Second, I would have to say that the right Buddhists have to think for themselves, rather than just follow "church rules" (as with some Catholics), is what leads to "popular Buddhism".

[camerata]

Isn't "popular Buddhism" another name for superstition?

Not really. It just means the way that people practise Buddhism as opposed to following the teachings of the Buddha in the Pali Canon. Part of it is tradition, part of it is misunderstanding. For example, in Theravada Buddhist countries there is a traditional belief that Buddha images have a protective power (the same goes for Pali chanting), but that idea doesn't come from the scriptures. Interestingly, some accounts of Thai Buddhism say that the reverence for amulets has its origin in the Mahayana Buddhism that was prevalent here centuries ago.

[camerata]

User chakran is having problems posting and asked me to post this:

Some food for thought......

Here is what the Buddha said about believes in "protective charms"

AN 5.175: Candala Sutta — The Outcaste {A iii 206} [Thanissaro].

This discourse lists — first in negative and then in positive form —

the basic requirements for being a Buddhist lay follower in good standing.

"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower. Which five? He/she does not have conviction [in the Buddha's Awakening]; is unvirtuous; is eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts protective charms & ceremonies, not kamma; and searches for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings there first. Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower."Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower. Which five? He/she has conviction; is virtuous; is not eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts kamma, not protective charms & ceremonies; does not search for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings here first. Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower."

Hope this can shade some light.......

May all beings be well and happy always.......

[phetaroi]

May all beings be well and happy always.......

LOL...well, in a religion or philosophy that recognizes the basic fact of life containing much suffering, his closing statement above would seem very un-Buddhist.

[Pakeha]

Copied and pasted from THIS THREAD on a similar topic.

By nature, we're visual creatures. So it would follow that visual cues serve as reminders, so to speak. There is no doubt that Buddha images and Wat related things have an impact on our mindset. The same can be said of amulets. Some people wear them out of faith in their maker/blesser and/or powers that they possess. The people who aren't into that who wear amulets do so as a reminder of virtue. Seeing your amulet, feeling it on your person, etc., has a profound effect that can affect choices you make, actions, etc.

Spot on!

It is like having a Buddha image in your house. It's not to worship that image but just to remind you of the middle path.

[chakran]

May all beings be well and happy always.......

LOL...well, in a religion or philosophy that recognizes the basic fact of life containing much suffering, his closing statement above would seem very un-Buddhist.

The phrase "May all beings be well and happy always".......is an aspiration, a well meaning wish for others - not a statement about the nature of reality. And as reality is, as you correctly say, so riddled with dukkha (Suffering). this aspiration is doubly relevant.

Thank you.....

May you be well and happy always.....

Edited March 19, 2009 by chakran

[camerata]

May all beings be well and happy always.......

LOL...well, in a religion or philosophy that recognizes the basic fact of life containing much suffering, his closing statement above would seem very un-Buddhist.

I think you've got it the wrong way round. It's because there is suffering in life that we practise metta (loving-kindness). The above is part of standard metta meditation:

Sit down or lie down comfortably and close your eyes.

Now turn your attention to yourself and say in your mind:

"May I be well, may I be happy."

Then recall in your mind someone very dear to you and say in your mind:

"May (s)he be well, may (s)he be happy."

Then recall to your mind your friends and also wish them well:

"May they be well, may they be happy."

Next turn your attention to the whole world, to all people around you and say in your mind: "May all people be well, may all people be happy."

Finally turn your attention to the whole world, to all beings around you and say in your mind: "May all beings be well, may all beings be happy."

[TexasRanger]

Nice.

Does it work?

[camerata]

Does it work?

Yes. But if you aren't a Buddhist you may not know that the object of the meditation is yourself. i.e. it reduces the suffering of the meditator. Specifically, it's the antidote to "ill will."

[Pakeha]

Does it work?

Yes. But if you aren't a Buddhist you may not know that the object of the meditation is yourself. i.e. it reduces the suffering of the meditator. Specifically, it's the antidote to "ill will."

I thought the object of this meditation was no self. The meta is directed at all sentient beings. Through practising it you come to realise their is no distinction between this and that, I and you. So another beings suffering is your suffering and vice versa. That is why it is said that those that attain enlightenment return in an effort to ease the suffering of all sentient beings, not just their own.

What do you think Camerata?