Which Uk Visa Form To Fill In ?

[fft100]

Hi,

I am British and have lived here in Thailand, with the occasional month of work in Germany, for more than 3 years with my unmarried partner. We have a 15 month old daughter who has both Thai and British passports. Our daughter has my surname. We have property here.

We are all travelling together to the UK for a week in May.

Should I fill in form VAF1F for marriage (and it appears unmarried partners), or form 1B for family visitor ? or just the normal 1A for a visitor ?

I asked VFS the above, and there email said they couldnt tell me, and it was upto the applicant to decide which visa best suited there purposes ! Not sure what the point of a help line is if they come back with that kind of response. I dont want to submit the wrong form, and then get knocked back.

Which is the best form to fill in given our circumstances ?

Thanks

[7by7]

VAF1F is for those wishing to visit the UK and get married whilst there, which I assume you do not.

Use VAF1A.

[Bird on the Wire]

Can you show you've been living together for at least 2 years? If so your partner's a family member.

Use VAF1B.

[fft100]

Can you show you've been living together for at least 2 years? If so your partner's a family member.

Use VAF1B.

As i said in the OP, we have lived together more than 2 years. However the 1B form is as clear as mud when the family member is travelling with the applicant, instead of the applicant visiting a family member in the UK.

[Andrew Hicks]

Can you show you've been living together for at least 2 years? If so your partner's a family member.

Use VAF1B.

As i said in the OP, we have lived together more than 2 years. However the 1B form is as clear as mud when the family member is travelling with the applicant, instead of the applicant visiting a family member in the UK.

I agree that the Family Visitor issue is as clear as mud.

The back of the form has the definition of 'member of the applicant's family' as defined by the 2003 Regulations and yes, it includes someone you have lived with for two years in the tree years before applying for the visa.

I have posted a similar thread to yours and have had no answers. (Did I really say something offensive that needed editing?)

The history is that I emailed [email protected] saying I was travelling to UK as husband with my Thai wife. Was she threfore visiting me and should I fill in the Family Visitor form? They replied I should use that form if I was visiting family as defined.

Thanks a million for that!

I've now redefined the enquiry but have had no reply from them.

I started filling in the General Visitor form but on getting to the bit about who I knew in UK, it said that if I was visiting family then I should use the Family Visitor form. As I am visiting family I've now filled that in instead.

What hangs on the distinction is that under the NIA Act 2002, s.90 there is a right of appeal if the application was for the purpose of visiting a member of the family. Hence the different form.. but the form assumes that the applicant is resident in Thailand and the visitee is resident in UK.

British bureaucracy is totally crass. That's what happens when they make the forms too complex. Confusion.

The appeal hangs on whether you are in fact visiting family and no on which form you happen to fill in, so it shouldn't matter one bit.

The forms are almost the same and there's little difference in substance so if you have a good case for a visa they shouldn't knock you back just because they think you used the wrong form.

A visa applicant travelling with a spouse should have as much right to an appeal as where the spouse is in the UK. Do they dare to say that if we travel together we have no right of appeal but if I go a week early and she follows me then she is going to visit me and an appeal is available? That would be crazy!

Essentially s.90 does not address the question of whether an applicant travelling with spouse to UK has a right of appeal or not. It depends whether the appeal right in the section is to be construed restrictively or not.

What a mess and it's impossible to get any guidance. What do we pay the massive visa fees for?

Esentially if you fill in the Family form you are claiming a right of appeal so it might be easier to fill the General form.

Andrew

[7by7]

It is quite clear, if one thinks a bit. It is the applicant's status and intentions that count, not the sponsor's.

If the applicant is visiting their family then they apply for a family visit, using form VAF1B.

If the applicant is visiting as a tourist then they apply for a general visa using form VAF1A.

And so on, using the appropriate form depending on the purpose of the applicant's visit.

It matters not that their sponsor is a British citizen and that they may be travelling with said sponsor.

However, if the applicant is the spouse or civil partner of their British citizen sponsor, or qualifies under the unmarried partners rules, and the main purpose of the visit is to visit the sponsor's family then this would be a family visit and they should use form VAF1B.

The visa issued, or refused, will be the one applied for. As some categories of visit visa attract a right of appeal and other's don't it is important to apply for the correct visa using the correct form.

Mr. Hicks, as far as I am aware, no one has edited your post in your other thread. I, however, edited a post I made in a rush and under the influence in response to the arrogant way you referred to VAC staff members.

BTW, the massive visa fees have nothing to do with the cost of providing the service. They have been increased to the current high levels by Labour as a cynical way of increasing revenue.

Edited March 21, 2009 by 7by7

[Andrew Hicks]

It is quite clear, if one thinks a bit. It is the applicant's status and intentions that count, not the sponsor's.

If the applicant is visiting their family then they apply for a family visit, using form VAF1B.

If the applicant is visiting as a tourist then they apply for a general visa using form VAF1A.

And so on, using the appropriate form depending on the purpose of the applicant's visit.

It matters not that their sponsor is a British citizen and that they may be travelling with said sponsor.

However, if the applicant is the spouse or civil partner of their British citizen sponsor, or qualifies under the unmarried partners rules, and the main purpose of the visit is to visit the sponsor's family then this would be a family visit and they should use form VAF1B.

The visa issued, or refused, will be the one applied for. As some categories of visit visa attract a right of appeal and other's don't it is important to apply for the correct visa using the correct form.

Mr. Hicks, as far as I am aware, no one has edited your post in your other thread. I, however, edited a post I made in a rush and under the influence in response to the arrogant way you referred to VAC staff members.

BTW, the massive visa fees have nothing to do with the cost of providing the service. They have been increased to the current high levels by Labour as a cynical way of increasing revenue.

I'm not sure that you've actually read the Regulations underlying this question. If you had, you'd realise that there is an issue here.

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there? Not in ordinary English usage, nor I think in terms of the rules of statutory interpretation which is what this is all about.

I do appreciate that the whole visa thing can make people irritable.

Andrew

[7by7]

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there?

I don't know; the purpose of the visit is up to them.

If they are travelling to the UK because they want to climb to the top of the Blackpool tower then this would not be a family visit; nor if they were visiting to conduct business, obtain medical treatment etc.

If, however, they were travelling to the UK to visit the family of the British spouse then that would be a family visit.

VAT2.4 What is a family visitor?

Under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003, a family visitor is defined as:

1. the applicant's spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin (NB: "first cousin" means, in relation to a person, the son or daughter of his uncle or aunt);
   
2. the father, mother, brother or sister of the applicant's spouse;
   
3. the spouse of the applicant's son or daughter;
   
4. the applicant's stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
   
5. a person with whom the applicant has lived as a member of an unmarried couple for at least two of the three years before the day on which his application for entry clearance was made.
   

In addition:

• Children adopted under an adoption order recognised in UK law are treated as if they are the natural children of the adoptive parents; and,
  
• The Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003 pre-date The Civil Partnership Act (2004). Civil partners are considered “a member of the applicant’s family” in the same way as a spouse for the purposes of the Family Visitor Regulations.
  

ECOs should not seek documentary evidence of a claimed relationship unless there are strong grounds to doubt it (such as a disparity in age that makes the relationship biologically unlikely).

Whatever the purpose of the visit it is extremely unlikely that someone applying as the spouse of a British citizen who is legally living in Thailand and will be travelling with the applicant would be refused.

Unless, of course, the British spouse was too arrogant or lazy to do a bit of research and provide the necessary documents to show that the criteria for the visa were met.

[elwood]

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there?

I don't know; the purpose of the visit is up to them.

If they are travelling to the UK because they want to climb to the top of the Blackpool tower then this would not be a family visit; nor if they were visiting to conduct business, obtain medical treatment etc.

If, however, they were travelling to the UK to visit the family of the British spouse then that would be a family visit.

VAT2.4 What is a family visitor?

Under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003, a family visitor is defined as:

1. the applicant's spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin (NB: "first cousin" means, in relation to a person, the son or daughter of his uncle or aunt);
   
2. the father, mother, brother or sister of the applicant's spouse;
   
3. the spouse of the applicant's son or daughter;
   
4. the applicant's stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
   
5. a person with whom the applicant has lived as a member of an unmarried couple for at least two of the three years before the day on which his application for entry clearance was made.
   

In addition:

• Children adopted under an adoption order recognised in UK law are treated as if they are the natural children of the adoptive parents; and,
  
• The Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003 pre-date The Civil Partnership Act (2004). Civil partners are considered “a member of the applicant’s family” in the same way as a spouse for the purposes of the Family Visitor Regulations.
  

ECOs should not seek documentary evidence of a claimed relationship unless there are strong grounds to doubt it (such as a disparity in age that makes the relationship biologically unlikely).

Whatever the purpose of the visit it is extremely unlikely that someone applying as the spouse of a British citizen who is legally living in Thailand and will be travelling with the applicant would be refused.

Unless, of course, the British spouse was too arrogant or lazy to do a bit of research and provide the necessary documents to show that the criteria for the visa were met.

Your answers seem to be the clearest on the topic, so please can I ask you this;

My wife used to visit UK on a 5-year multi-visit visa, the last one expired in 2004. Now she will be travelling to UK again in June, so I intend to apply for a multi-visit visa again on a Family Visit VAF-1B form.

However, she will be travelling alone in June; do you think this will create any problem with the application?

Many thanks,

Elwood

[Andrew Hicks]

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there?

I don't know; the purpose of the visit is up to them.

If they are travelling to the UK because they want to climb to the top of the Blackpool tower then this would not be a family visit; nor if they were visiting to conduct business, obtain medical treatment etc.

If, however, they were travelling to the UK to visit the family of the British spouse then that would be a family visit.

VAT2.4 What is a family visitor?

Under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003, a family visitor is defined as:

1. the applicant's spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin (NB: "first cousin" means, in relation to a person, the son or daughter of his uncle or aunt);
   
2. the father, mother, brother or sister of the applicant's spouse;
   
3. the spouse of the applicant's son or daughter;
   
4. the applicant's stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
   
5. a person with whom the applicant has lived as a member of an unmarried couple for at least two of the three years before the day on which his application for entry clearance was made.
   

In addition:

• Children adopted under an adoption order recognised in UK law are treated as if they are the natural children of the adoptive parents; and,
  
• The Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003 pre-date The Civil Partnership Act (2004). Civil partners are considered “a member of the applicant’s family” in the same way as a spouse for the purposes of the Family Visitor Regulations.
  

ECOs should not seek documentary evidence of a claimed relationship unless there are strong grounds to doubt it (such as a disparity in age that makes the relationship biologically unlikely).

Whatever the purpose of the visit it is extremely unlikely that someone applying as the spouse of a British citizen who is legally living in Thailand and will be travelling with the applicant would be refused.

Unless, of course, the British spouse was too arrogant or lazy to do a bit of research and provide the necessary documents to show that the criteria for the visa were met.

I have bothered to read the relevant regulations that determine the right of appeal and as a qualified solicitor of many years standing I am fully aware that the question I put raises a difficult point.

I did not get out of bed the wrong side today and am untroubled by someone who is being offensive but who in his position should know better.

What's the point of posting on Thaivisa if this is the sort of response one gets from a moderator.

[7by7]

My wife used to visit UK on a 5-year multi-visit visa, the last one expired in 2004. Now she will be travelling to UK again in June, so I intend to apply for a multi-visit visa again on a Family Visit VAF-1B form.

However, she will be travelling alone in June; do you think this will create any problem with the application?

Many thanks,

Elwood

Should not be a problem, given her previous history. However as it is 5 years since she last visited the UK I doubt she will get a long term visa, I'd apply for a 6 month one this time.

Mr. Hicks, as your remarks are preceded by a quote of one of my posts, I assume they are addressed to me. Thanks for the promotion. I did not know that you had the power to appoint moderators!

I fail to see why you think this point is difficult, especially for someone with your claimed qualifications. The guidance I quoted seems quite clear.

[elwood]

My wife used to visit UK on a 5-year multi-visit visa, the last one expired in 2004. Now she will be travelling to UK again in June, so I intend to apply for a multi-visit visa again on a Family Visit VAF-1B form.

However, she will be travelling alone in June; do you think this will create any problem with the application?

Many thanks,

Elwood

Should not be a problem, given her previous history. However as it is 5 years since she last visited the UK I doubt she will get a long term visa, I'd apply for a 6 month one this time.

Mr. Hicks, as your remarks are preceded by a quote of one of my posts, I assume they are addressed to me. Thanks for the promotion. I did not know that you had the power to appoint moderators!

I fail to see why you think this point is difficult, especially for someone with your claimed qualifications. The guidance I quoted seems quite clear.

7by7 -

Many thanks for your advice,

Elwood

[fft100]

Family visa, i.e. 1B was filled in and was succesful. Mind you, i did supply 5 inches of documents !