Access Fees

[meemiathai]

Just what is wrong with the farangs' mind?

Just can't autorities of a certain country give discounts to its citizen? It is their own country! Don't they have the right to charge whatever they like to customers?

Isn't this called free trade? Does supply and demand apply here, PVTDick?

but there is no valid reason to support the policy and those that say we are rich and should pay more........well thats downright patronising to the thais but at least you give them a good laugh. why dont you voluntarily pay double for beer and food from now on ? why wait to be asked ? give that taxi driver a 200b tip if you think he is so underprivelidged , give the newsagent 50 baht for your bangkok post tomorrow , pay 2000 baht airpot tax when you go home , why just contribute at the parks. if you really thought it was about relative wealth and your motives were honourable then you would be paying more voluntarily.

If all prices really goes up for foreigners, what I will think is; Is this country too expensive for me? Rather than why do they pay less?

A short story:

A well off, strong and well trained athlete is going to compete with a poor, malnutrition and weak man in a 1500m race for his own packet of rice which the former doesn't even gives a shit to winning it or not. Complains that the latter is wearing a pair of Nike shoes. Oh yes, that is so unfair!

What do think the poor and weak are going to think?

This is such a fair world?

Go ahead and whinge as long as you guys like! Yes, I am willing to pay different prices because I am weak!!!!

[chico]

I have read with great interest the pros and cons of dual pricing. Up until now I have always railed against it but reading the well reasoned arguments of the fans of it I now realise I was wrong.

What really swung it was the one "If I don't like it sod off home" actually I thought this was my home, there again I can't be right all the time.

So I propose that the people who are in favour of being ripped off contact the people who don't like getting ripped off so they can send the extra 180 baht per person to those that do visits these places.

I reckon we visit the parks and waterfalls etc. about 5 times a year with overseas visitors usually two or three at a time 5x3x180 =2,700 baht call it 3 thousand for fun, you can send it a brown envelope I won't mind at all, promise.

This way everyone will be happy, especially me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could you probably include me in your recipients list??

[meemiathai]

KAN WIN said

I go to these places, because I want to and even with a P.R. which I have, I do not show it. I just pay the same as all the other Non-Thai people visiting.

No problem for me.

hi kan win,

i'd be interested to know why you pay the increased fees when you visit these places , and you must visit a lot of them judging by your photos.

is it just the national parks or would also be willing to pay more to use a tuk tuk in patong or pattaya just because of your nationality ?

kan win, your fotos are truly perfect, (unfortunately better than most of mines) and i do recognize many of the places, but even if you cannot (or will not) charge the fees sometime, somewhere what is the reason to be happy to pay them?

have to agree with taxexile : are you paying everywhere in thailand double or higher fees?

meemiathai is suggesting something like this to help the pour people!?

i do not believe that those fees are going to the needy, if someone want to do something for them, PM me, i give you plenty of adresses in isaan!!

chico, I am very disapointed!

How can you say that I was suggesting this double pricing to help the poor people?

I was simply answering your question.

Are you that thick to misunderstand it or was it done on purpose?

sorry, definitely not intentional. i thought i was quoting you from another post, after rereading some i cannot find it, therefore i guess, just my mistake.

my apologies again!

Thanks!

Sorry for my part too.

[Scallywag]

If you begrudge paying it then don't.

[PvtDick]

Just what is wrong with the farangs' mind?

Just can't autorities of a certain country give discounts to its citizen? It is their own country! Don't they have the right to charge whatever they like to customers?

Isn't this called free trade? Does supply and demand apply here, PVTDick?

Well, actually, no it doesn't. The government owns all the national parks; they therefore have a monopoly on supply. The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

[sriracha john]

Who the ###### mentioned whores....I certainly didn't.........obviously you're one of the people that put the two together.ie good night out/whore. I tried to put an intellegent light on the matter. Must have gone clean over your head. I live in a part of the country where people do come to see the sights. I used to drink,but now I look after other folks needs, I don't anymore. I am also happily married (to a wonderful Thai) but I'm one of the few that DON"T need to whore around.

   Whoever read my say out to you,they missed the point completely

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

re: "whores"...go back and re-read dr john's post to which you replied "well said sir".... if you don't want to be associated with what he posts, then don't write "well said sir"...

as for "putting an intelligent light on the matter".... I'm still waiting to see anything intelligent about lumping thousands of foreigners into a single pigeon-hole. There are more than a "few" who "DON'T need to whore around".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr John's comments were against the exploiting and sexual abuse of girls as young as 13. If, as you write you are against him ,and for that then you and your filthy types should be locked up. Please do not reply to my comments again as I do not wish to be assossiated with pervs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lampard, my good man... you are getting more tangential with every post.

what i am "against" is dr john lumping everyone together into the type of person you so libelously accuse others of being. as you can see from others who have posted, they too resent his insinuations. as for not replying to your comments, there is one sure-fire method you can utilize to seeing your wish come to completion..... don't post.

[sriracha john]

I have read with great interest the pros and cons of dual pricing. Up until now I have always railed against it but reading the well reasoned arguments of the fans of it I now realise I was wrong.

What really swung it was the one "If I don't like it sod off home" actually I thought this was my home, there again I can't be right all the time.

So I propose that the people who are in favour of being ripped off contact the people who don't like getting ripped off so they can send the extra 180 baht per person to those that do visits these places.

I reckon we visit the parks and waterfalls etc. about 5 times a year with overseas visitors usually two or three at a time 5x3x180 =2,700 baht call it 3 thousand for fun, you can send it a brown envelope I won't mind at all, promise.

This way everyone will be happy, especially me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could you probably include me in your recipients list??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

include myself on the list as well, please... perhaps lampard could just send his directly my way...

[sriracha john]

I can accept people saying it is unfair.  Or is about money.  I can accept people saying it is too expensive.  But to say this is racism really pisses me off. 

This tuktuk bastard charged me 100baht then 20baht for that lovely thai lady.

Actually, by definition ("rac·ism. n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.")

in your scenario, racism is EXACTLY what occurs

[sriracha john]

Just what is wrong with the farangs' mind?

Just can't autorities of a certain country give discounts to its citizen? It is their own country! Don't they have the right to charge whatever they like to customers?

Isn't this called free trade? Does supply and demand apply here, PVTDick?

Well, actually, no it doesn't. The government owns all the national parks; they therefore have a monopoly on supply. The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Pvt for shooting another hole in their rationalizations in a clear, logical manner....

by the way, when can we expect LcplDick? you deserve the promotion.

[meemiathai]

I can accept people saying it is unfair.  Or is about money.  I can accept people saying it is too expensive.  But to say this is racism really pisses me off. 

This tuktuk bastard charged me 100baht then 20baht for that lovely thai lady.

Actually, by definition ("rac·ism. n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.")

in your scenario, racism is EXACTLY what occurs

It is not based on race here. Status, in fact. Tourist or resident.

Primates learn to use tools to improve standard of living.

Humans are best at using tools. They use tools like "racism" to amplify what they try to say. to make them louder. to make them look more reasonable.

[Jai Dee]

Primates learn to use tools to improve standard of living.

Humans are best at using tools.  They use tools like "racism" to amplify what they try to say.  to make them louder.  to make them look more reasonable.

Interesting spin...

What other tools do humans employ? Manipulation... baiting... deceit...

[sriracha john]

I can accept people saying it is unfair.  Or is about money.  I can accept people saying it is too expensive.  But to say this is racism really pisses me off. 

This tuktuk bastard charged me 100baht then 20baht for that lovely thai lady.

Actually, by definition ("rac·ism. n. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.")

in your scenario, racism is EXACTLY what occurs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not based on race here. Status, in fact. Tourist or resident.

Factually, it's based on race. If the customer was an American born to Thai parents in the USA, for example, and on her first tourist visit here, they would most likely only be asked to pay the 20 baht rate, whereas a Thai resident citizen born to white parents here, would most likely be asked to pay the 100 baht rate. In this age of world globalization, tourist vs. resident scenarios can all get muddled as per the aforementioned examples. The differing rates are based on race.

Edited January 21, 2005 by sriracha john

[PvtDick]

No, actually it's based on NATIONALITY. A Thai national of whatever race (Chinese, Thai, Lao, Indian) pays the local rate, while a foreigner of whatever race (Caucasian, Arab, Japanese) pays the foreign rate.

[sriracha john]

No, actually it's based on NATIONALITY.  A Thai national of whatever race (Chinese, Thai, Lao, Indian) pays the local rate, while a foreigner of whatever  race (Caucasian, Arab, Japanese) pays the foreign rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

except for the Thai-American, Thai-German, etc. would get charged the local rate, yes? which returns it to a race issue.

[PvtDick]

Only if they can pass for Thai nationals. If they are ethnic Thais who can't speak Thai and dress and act like foreigners, they get the foreigner price.

[lampard10]

[include myself on the list as well, please... perhaps lampard could just send his directly my way...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly I wish to apologise for my outburst yesterday. It was out of order. There are of course things for and things against. Heathrow charges a small fortune now for tourists to arrive....and leave for that matter. The forgein office charges a fortune for visa's for tourists to amble through the &lt;deleted&gt; that litters our streets at home. Just remember what I wrote last week. In our country( I assume you are English)Serbs,Croats,Afghans or anybody that is running away from a regeme that the powers to be have deemed bad,have more rights and get far more money than those who were born there. Just think if we had had a two tier pricing system 30 years ago Britain might still be Great. And as I previously said 'At least Thailand have the decency to tell you they are charging tourists more' And if you go about it the right way it does not apply to us who live here. A few weeks ago at Phanom Rung I said in my poor Thai' Pen khon Thai' the official just said 'ok passport' I showed him my Thai driving licence and was charged the same as the rest of the Thais I was with. This is how it should be. Anyway I apologise again,but I suppose these online 'discussions' are designed to provoke certain individuals.

[Doctor John]

I am farang, i went to Phu Kradung yesterday and paid 20 Baht, same as Thai nationals, I had a Thai driving license with me.

If the fees are racist and based on race, I would have still been charged 200 baht cos I am still a farang, but I was only charged 20 baht and there ain't no way on earth I could pass for a Thai, so how is it racist?

It gives Thai nationals that in general are paid a low wage a chance to go to National parks etc, if they where charged 200 baht it would be impossible for them to go, a Tourist is charged 200 Baht and he can pay it and then moan about the injustice of it all.

The average Thai would not be able to pay that, full stop.

[PvtDick]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks. The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

[Thai_dye]

going to Koh Samet, arriving at the island and driving to a resort, one is stopped at the entrance of the "national park" (covering almost the whole island including all beaches, resorts etc) :

Thais pay 20bt, Farang 200bt, - the fee is to keep the island clean!

Now that I understand, since every weekend , hundreds of thai clans invade the beaches with all their home cooked meals, living all their trash where they have been sitting, whereas farang normally go to the restaurants to eat ?

Why are we paying everywhere around  5 to 10 times more than thais?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Has any of you ever asked why you get paid tripple or even more than we do??

We're slaves in our own country,not to mention overseas!

Yet, I'm not saying charging farangs more is fair either. My ex didn't pay for that when we went to Samet as he spoke good Thai and insisted he'd lived in Thailand for 20 years(in fact it was only 2 years!) and he was no longer a farang anymore! Yep, he paid 20 baht!

[meemiathai]

The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

I am certainly going to blush if I was to say something like that.

Can you buy a bottle of coke with 20 baht in your country?

Do people complain about ladies' night in night clubs????

Can we put it that way?

All people are to be charged 200 baht, but for Thais they get 90% discount.

Is that OK?

The government owns all the national parks; they therefore have a monopoly on supply. The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

They have the right to not let non-thais in as well!

[aughie]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks.  The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

The problem here is they would have to raise prices to make up for the lost revenue? So everyone would pay more for the entrance.

[meemiathai]

Just what is wrong with the farangs' mind?

Just can't autorities of a certain country give discounts to its citizen?  It is their own country!  Don't they have the right to charge whatever they like to customers?

Isn't this called free trade?  Does supply and demand apply here, PVTDick?

Well, actually, no it doesn't. The government owns all the national parks; they therefore have a monopoly on supply. The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

Thanks Pvt for shooting another hole in their rationalizations in a clear, logical manner....

by the way, when can we expect LcplDick? you deserve the promotion.

Yeah, let's wait and see all the arrows start shooting towards Pvtdick when the Copyright topic is brought about. It is all about selfishness, you guys! I do not condone using copied products. (trying to befriend Pvtdick now )

Edited January 21, 2005 by meemiathai

[PvtDick]

No, that is not OK. I do not support dual pricing based on race or nationality -- and it still surprises me that some people do.

[sriracha john]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks.  The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm of the same opinion...

[meemiathai]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks.  The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

I'm of the same opinion...

We all of course knew what your opinions were!

[meemiathai]

No, that is not OK.  I do not support dual pricing based on race or nationality -- and it still surprises me that some people do.

First of all, we are not supporting it. We just think it is resonable and acceptable.

Secondly, based on what are the dual pricings you support or found acceptable?

[sriracha john]

The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am certainly going to blush if I was to say something like that.

why? it's fair

Can you buy a bottle of coke with 20 baht in your country?

what does that have to do with anything, but for the record; coke for 50 cents?...yeah, you can find that.

Do people complain about ladies' night in night clubs????

no, because they have those everywhere, including Thailand...if things are universally accepted, that's not at issue, but very few places have different admission rates to national parks based on race

Can we put it that way?

All people are to be charged 200 baht, but for Thais they get 90% discount.

Is that OK?

no, unless you chose to accept racism

The government owns all the national parks; they therefore have a monopoly on supply. The principles of free trade and supply and demand cease to work when anyone or anything holds a monopoly and can dictate any damned price they want.

They have the right to not let non-thais in as well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's fine...and watch them go down hill at an even faster pace then now to a point where no one wants to visit

Edited January 21, 2005 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks.  The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem here is they would have to raise prices to make up for the lost revenue? So everyone would pay more for the entrance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the majority of the revenue now is certainly not going to the improvements or the upkeep of the parks. any loss of revenue would or should come out of the higher-ups who personally squander the funds.

[sriracha john]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Thais be charged 200 baht for entrance to national parks.  The assumed solution would be to charge EVERYONE 20 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm of the same opinion...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all of course knew what your opinions were!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmm... I'm suspicious of that as many things have gotten quite distorted on this here topic as of late...

but that's fine, that's what a discourse is all about. clearing things up.

so i was agreeing with pvtdick and just wanted to clearly spell out that i'm ALSO NOT in favor of charging Thais 200 baht and letting in foreigners for free...

[PvtDick]

No, that is not OK.  I do not support dual pricing based on race or nationality -- and it still surprises me that some people do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, we are not supporting it. We just think it is resonable and acceptable.

Secondly, based on what are the dual pricings you support or found acceptable?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'll play your little game: I do not find dual pricing based on race or nationality either reasonable or acceptable, because I believe that the price for any good or service should be fixed based upon the value of that good or service, combined with supply and demand factors if applicable-- not the perceived wealth or poverty of the prospective consumer. After all neither nationality nor race is a meaningful indicator of an individual person's wealth, is it?

Imagine the outrage if, in the US, Disneyland offered a special discount for blacks and Latins because, on average, they have lower income than whites. Or if a bar charged Japanese patrons higher prices than Chinese ones, because a study indicated that it took Japanese 25% longer to finish their drinks.

No...such madness is never acceptable, because it codifies the treatment of races or nationalities of people by stereotypes based on some "generality" that is obviously not true in all cases. Much better to have prices be driven by what is being delivered than by what the person doing the buying looks like.