2009 Formula One Season

[wackysleet]

Mjo mate, we are not arguing, it's mostly just a discussion on our own opinions of drivers etc and racing in general which we all know is subjective.

Discussing about drivers and races along with a bit of history keeps this topic open from one race to another, just look at how many posters we actually get when there's no racing, obviously a lot of our posts are of no interest to many here but two days after a race the topic would die.

Personally I would be very happy to talk about past races and drivers during the interim period as I believe there are no real characters within the present crop of drivers like Senna/Prost/Mansell/Moss the list is endless and yes even Shumacher. .

Maybe i was

No, arguing maybe not the correct word.

I've been hearing something in star sports about F1 classic races from past years they are supposedly showing during the winter break. Any info if it will be like a race per week or something ?

This is the 4th bloody time I tried replying but keep losing my connection.

Mjo I haven't heard anything but would love to see some old races on tv.

But I have on tape and latterly on disc every race since the sixties except the last race which I missed as my daughter was taken into hospital with a fractured skull, and kept mostly in England, as I am going back to London in a couple of weeks I will bring some back and get them transferred onto disc but there are over 200, I also have quite a lot of old film that I took in the 50s and 60s but as I was only a youngster in 1950 they are not top quality but were watchable the last time I viewed them.

If anyone is interested in seeing some of the old races I would willingly send you a copy of a race when transferred to disc.

[rixalex]

Sorry to hear about your daughter Wacky. Hope she's on the mend.

Did i understand you correctly? You have every F1 race recorded since the sixties, with the exception of the last race at Interlagos? If so, you must be quite the anorak!

If anyone is interested in seeing some of the old races I would willingly send you a copy of a race when transferred to disc.

What a gent.

[wackysleet]

Sorry to hear about your daughter Wacky. Hope she's on the mend.

Did i understand you correctly? You have every F1 race recorded since the sixties, with the exception of the last race at Interlagos? If so, you must be quite the anorak!

If anyone is interested in seeing some of the old races I would willingly send you a copy of a race when transferred to disc.

What a gent.

Thanks rixalex, she will hopefully be out of the I.C.U. tomorrow.

Actually my collection started the weekend I bought my new VHS recorder and since I travelled a lot my daughter always taped the races for me and did so until I moved and settled in Asia.

I am a keen fan, more so of the earlier races than the present races and I always admired Nigel Mansell as a driver he was fearless and in my opinion the best british driver ever, certainly the most successful.

The offer stands for copies and when they are transferred I will post.

[Mosha]

Best wishes to the family bud, I've got my fingers crossed for the bairn..

[wackysleet]

Best wishes to the family bud, I've got my fingers crossed for the bairn..

Thanks Mosha, she has now come out of I.C.U. and in a private room with a good prognosis.

David.

[ignis]

Best wishes for your Daughters recovery..

Wow would love to view some of the older races....

As for Nigel Mansell yes he was great + think he was involved but can't remember a race where some one broke down just before the checkered flag and got out a pushed the car over the line... another where one broke down and another driver stopped and gave the other driver a lift sat on the side.

[wackysleet]

Best wishes for your Daughters recovery..

Wow would love to view some of the older races....

As for Nigel Mansell yes he was great + think he was involved but can't remember a race where some one broke down just before the checkered flag and got out a pushed the car over the line... another where one broke down and another driver stopped and gave the other driver a lift sat on the side.

Thanks ignis. The race your referring to was, if I remember right The British Grand Prix on the occassion Nigel won the race for the 3rd time and Senna broke down on the last lap and was awarded 4th place having I think run out of petrol, Nigel came around on his lap of honour and picked up Senna and gave him a lift back to the pits even though they were not the best of friends but Nigel was the one man not intimidated by Senna.

As I said previously, I will transfer the tapes onto disc and anyone that wants one can pm me {no charge}.

[Mosha]

From the F1 official site.

Monaco moved forward in revised 2010 calendar

Flags of different nations. Formula One World Championship, Rd 12, Belgian Grand Prix, Qualifying Day, Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium, Saturday 29 August 2009. Jaime Alguersuari (ESP) Scuderia Toro Rosso STR4. Formula One World Championship, Rd 16, Brazilian Grand Prix, Race, Interlagos, Sao Paulo, Brazil, Sunday, 18 October 2009 Felipe Massa (BRA) Ferrari with the chequered flag waves home race winner Mark Webber (AUS) Red Bull Racing RB5. Formula One World Championship, Rd 16, Brazilian Grand Prix, Race, Interlagos, Sao Paulo, Brazil, Sunday, 18 October 2009 The start of the race. Formula One World Championship, Rd 16, Brazilian Grand Prix, Race, Interlagos, Sao Paulo, Brazil, Sunday, 18 October 2009

Following a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) in Paris on Wednesday, the FIA has re-released its provisional calendar for the 2010 season. The slightly revised schedule sees next year’s Monaco Grand Prix move forward one week to May 16 from its original date of May 23.

The sport’s governing body also revealed that it has approved in principle a proposal to swap the dates of the Abu Dhabi and Brazilian Grands Prix, pending an agreement with the promoters of both events.

A final calendar will be adopted at the December meeting of the WMSC.

2010 FIA Formula One World Championship calendar

14 March - Bahrain

28 March - Australia

4 April - Malaysia

18 April - China

9 May - Spain

16 May - Monaco

30 May - Turkey

13 June - Canada**

27 June - Europe (Valencia)

11 July - Great Britain*

25 July - Germany

1 August - Hungary

29 August - Belgium

12 September - Italy

26 September - Singapore

3 October - Japan*

17 October - Korea*

31 October - Abu Dhabi†

14 November - Brazil†

*Subject to the homologation of the circuit.

**Subject to the completion of contract negotiations with Formula One Management.

†The FIA has approved in principle a proposal to swap the dates of the Abu Dhabi and Brazil Grands Prix, pending agreement with the promoters of both events.

Whatever homologation means, also I thought Spa had had it's operating license revoked?

[skydiver77]

Discussing about drivers and races along with a bit of history keeps this topic open from one race to another, just look at how many posters we actually get when there's no racing, obviously a lot of our posts are of no interest to many here but two days after a race the topic would die.

Personally I would be very happy to talk about past races and drivers during the interim period as I believe there are no real characters within the present crop of drivers like Senna/Prost/Mansell/Moss the list is endless and yes even Shumacher. .

Best wishes to your daughter Wacky.

If you happen to wander back thru. this entertaining thread, you will see that my all time favourite driver is Mansell. Despite being somewhat devoid of an outward personality ,[compared to some of the other drivers,] once behind the wheel, that was it.

And of course never intimidated by Senna. There is one other driver you have not mentioned, who didn't give a dam_n about anyone, including Senna; Irvine.

Another real character with excellent ability was Hunt. Prost wasn't a 'character' as such, but in his day was unrivalled for smoothness and consistincy.

Hill isn't mentioned much in this thread. Not much of a character and seemed be immersed within the image of his famous father. but he was in the right place at the right time.

Can you recall the Monaco race when in the last few laps, Mansell was climbing all over the back of Senna? Sure wouldn't mind seeing that again.

And as always, Nigel was knackered when clambering out of the car. But he was right for the time. He is a big man and if teleported to todays races, may well find it difficult competing against all these slim short assed drivers.

Of course I'm happy the title has gone to a Brit. But I really wanted Rubens to clinch it this time.....

[MJo]

Been recovering from the MotoGP a while....

Best wishes to your daughter Wacky.

It seems Bernie is not gonna give anything for free and is again ready to transfer races to countries and tracks that are willing to pay his asking price or more. Personally i think it's a shame, why not to keep British GP going on just for the history of the sport and not to base all decisions purely on cash in Bernie's hand. After all it is FIA's series and they let 3rd party businessman to call the shots on this.

[MJo]

Interesting survey for drivers salaries...

LINK

They say this season the salaries paid for the drivers totalled 126.8 million USD. And that's just basic salary not including bonuses and sponsor income.

More amazing is that Kimi in the top of the list with 45M USD. That's more than one third of the total ! God he must love his manager even if he takes 15% Also Rosberg is surprisingly high in the list considering he's fairly new face in F1. But maybe the same case as Vettel, considered as fast and future champion so teams want to keep them and pay accordingly.

Other interesting thing is that average per driver is 6.4M but only 5 drivers out of the total 20 are getting more than the average. Ok there is few rentals that are not getting anything as per the list but still. Big gap between the "stars" and the rest of them.

DRIVER SALARIES FOR 2009

1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m

2. Lewis Hamilton $18m

3. Fernando Alonso $15m

4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m

5. Jarno Trulli $6.5m

6. Sebastian Vettell $6m

7. Mark Webber $5.5m

8. Jenson Button $5m

9. Robert Kubica $4.5m

10. Heiki Kovaleinen $3.5m

11. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m

12. Timo Glock $2m

13. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m

14. Sebastien Buemi $1.5m

15. Rubens Barrichello $1m

16. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m

17. Vitantonio Liuzzi $NIL

18. Adrian Sutil [Rent a driver]

19. Romain Grossjean $NIL

20. Kazuki Nakajima $NIL

* Ferrari’s Felipe Massa, who is not racing due to injury, earned $8m in 2009.

[F1fanatic]

Is it only me who thinks these 'salaries' obscene??!

Yes, a few years ago F1 drivers were risking their lives - but raced anyway for the love of it. Nowadays, its fairly safe - thank god as nobody wants to see the racers dying!

BUT - the salaries have got out of hand IMO. Once Kimi is faced with the challenge of whether to go to another team (cos he'll lose money from his pay-off with Ferrari if he races for another team), you know something is seriously wrong. I say this bearing in mind the latest stories that Kimi will get 30 million dollars if he doesn't race (<deleted>!) and less if he does! I mean - honestly, what the hel_l!! We can't even imagine that sort of money for one year of NOT driving a car!!

Edited October 28, 2009 by F1fanatic

[rixalex]

Can you recall the Monaco race when in the last few laps, Mansell was climbing all over the back of Senna? Sure wouldn't mind seeing that again.

Yeah remember that one vividly, not for the right reasons though. It highlighted for me the worst thing about street circuits. If i had my way, i'd like them all scrapped, with the exception of Monaco. The recent introduction of Valencia and Singapore for me is just a novelty thing.

[Mosha]

I'd scrap Monaco to. It's the most boring of the races, and the only one I don't care if I miss the race. At least it shouldn't carry any points, especially if there is no refuelling. It will become a fast procession.

[rixalex]

Is it only me who thinks these 'salaries' obscene??!

Yes, a few years ago F1 drivers were risking their lives - but raced anyway for the love of it. Nowadays, its fairly safe - thank god as nobody wants to see the racers dying!

The sport generates a lot of revenue. Who would you prefer to be getting this money? It has to go somewhere, and why not to the guys that the fans come to see?

I've got no problem with drivers fighting for the best deal possible. And if the team is prepared to pay x amount, then that is up to the team. Nobody puts a gun to the head of the team owner to pay those wages.

[rixalex]

I'd scrap Monaco to. It's the most boring of the races, and the only one I don't care if I miss the race.

Wow! No sentimentality from you i see!

For me, of all the street circuits, Monaco is the best because the tight, built-up nature of the surroundings makes it a spectacle, even when the racing isn't. I like the history of the place too. If it went i think i'd be forever be looking back at the videos thinking how crazy it all was and wishing i could go back in time to experience it once again.

It's unique, not just in terms of F1, but in terms of motorsport as a whole. Nowhere else in the world do people go racing at that speed in tiny little back sois.

Where's your romance Mosha - or does the missus demand all of that from you?

P.S. Any news David on your daughter's condition?

Edited October 28, 2009 by rixalex

[Mosha]

Quote

Wow! No sentimentality from you i see!

End Quote

I watch the sport to see cars and drivers at their limit. As for sentimentality. The UK government must immediately revoke Bernie's passport if he allows the British GP to die.

[MJo]

Is it only me who thinks these 'salaries' obscene??!

Yes, a few years ago F1 drivers were risking their lives - but raced anyway for the love of it. Nowadays, its fairly safe - thank god as nobody wants to see the racers dying!

BUT - the salaries have got out of hand IMO. Once Kimi is faced with the challenge of whether to go to another team (cos he'll lose money from his pay-off with Ferrari if he races for another team), you know something is seriously wrong. I say this bearing in mind the latest stories that Kimi will get 30 million dollars if he doesn't race (<deleted>!) and less if he does! I mean - honestly, what the hel_l!! We can't even imagine that sort of money for one year of NOT driving a car!!

Yes they are high and goes over the top of my head how they pay like this when there is all the talk of cutting costs.

But if we compare the salaries to some other popular sports they are not that much. I mean for golf players and the like there is no personal risk (of death) involved and yet they get paid the same.

But Rix is correct, which one is the fool, the one asking or the one paying With all the money going on in the biz i also like to see good part of it going to the pockets of the guys who risk their lives for the sport. Better than giving it all to Bernie to spend on his new young GF.

[rixalex]

19. Romain Grossjean $NIL

Gotta feel sorry for Romain. Not only does he get paid bugger all it would seem, but he has people spelling his surname in a rather unfortunate manner!

[Mosha]

This article was in a link at MSN, part of which listed the salaries. I've left that out as we all know what the list reads like.

F1 2009 driver salaries revealed

The driver salaries for every competitor in F1 2009 have been published, containing a number of surprises – most notably the discrepancy in team-mate pay in some cases, and also the staggering gap between what the highest-paid driver receives and the pay packet of the next man on the list...

Ahead of the inaugural Abu Dhabi Grand Prix this weekend around the all-new, spectacular Yas Marina street circuit, Arabian Business has revealed the salary list, which is perhaps unsurprisingly topped by former world champions Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari, 2007), Lewis Hamilton (McLaren-Mercedes, 2008) and Fernando Alonso (Renault, 2005/2006).

More of a shock, perhaps, is the $27 million margin between Raikkonen’s retainer and that of Hamilton, and the $37 million that the Finn earned over injured Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa, who is bidding to return to the fray in 2010 following his terrifying high-speed Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying accident back in late July.

The figure also perhaps sheds some light upon Raikkonen’s current predicament, with potential suitors McLaren and Toyota reportedly baulking at the 30-year-old’s financial demands for next season, and the 18-time grand prix-winner apparently unwilling to lower his expectations.

Newly-crowned 2009 F1 World Champion Jenson Button, meanwhile, was paid just $5 million over the course of his title-winning campaign – albeit $4 million more than Brawn GP team-mate Rubens Barrichello, who seemingly received less even than Scuderia Toro Rosso rookie Sébastien Buemi – after taking a substantial cut last winter in order to enable the Brackley-based outfit to survive the post-Honda F1 fallout. The British star and his team remain locked in stalled discussions over his 2010 salary – as the 29-year-old believes his achievements this year merit a return to his erstwhile retainer at the very least.

Aside from Raikkonen, Hamilton and Alonso, similarly ahead of Button on the list are Brawn-bound Williams star Nico Rosberg, Massa, Toyota veteran Jarno Trulli and Red Bull Racing pairing Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber. Whilst four drivers on the grid – Kazuki Nakajima (Williams), Romain Grosjean (Renault) and Adrian Sutil and Vitantonio Liuzzi (both Force India F1) – went unpaid, the total salaries nonetheless equalled a mind-numbing $134.8 million, or to put it another way, an average of $6.4 million per driver.

“There may be a global recession going on,” remarked Tom Rubython, who compiled the list, “but being an F1 driver means you earned a fortune this year. These figures are just basic salaries, and don’t include sponsorship and other income, which can often be three times that amount.”

[rixalex]

Some interesting news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8331563.stm

Looks like Mercedes might be getting ready to jump ship from McLaren to Brawn.

Seems a bit knee-jerk to me.

And i'll be sorry if Rosberg goes to Brawn. Him and Lewis would make a great partnership.

[MJo]

Some interesting news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8331563.stm

Looks like Mercedes might be getting ready to jump ship from McLaren to Brawn.

Seems a bit knee-jerk to me.

And i'll be sorry if Rosberg goes to Brawn. Him and Lewis would make a great partnership.

Rosberg would do nice in McLaren, in my opinion he's one the future champs with Vettel. Would be nice to see how he compares to Lewis. Just read in the news that he has confirmed that he's leaving Williams. Said that this will be his last race for Williams for now. Did not tell where he's going but i guess it will be Brawn.

Kimi also said to the Finn F1 channel that McLaren is his only option. Claiming he has not even discussed anything with Toyota. Or then driving rally if McLaren deal falls thru due to salary etc. He also said there would be some news in few days time. Propably to announce deal with McLaren or his retirement from F1.

[Mosha]

As McLaren are said to be after BMWs F1 engine department, I don't think losing Mercedes will be too much of a blow.

[rixalex]

As McLaren are said to be after BMWs F1 engine department, I don't think losing Mercedes will be too much of a blow.

Are you suggesting they might not be losing but rather getting rid off?

Switching partnerships from Benz to BM, if it happens, is surely the equivalent of quiting Man United to go play for Liverpool!

[Mosha]

Actually I was suggesting they would be getting rid of, but the article says both McLaren and BMW have quashed the rumour, hinting at McLaren buying the BMW F1 engine department. Also that Mercedes are to continue providing them with engines so ignore what I said previously.

[rixalex]

Actually I was suggesting they would be getting rid of, but the article says both McLaren and BMW have quashed the rumour, hinting at McLaren buying the BMW F1 engine department. Also that Mercedes are to continue providing them with engines so ignore what I said previously.

Shame. The McLaren / Benz relationship has been successful but maybe from McLaren's point of view they could do with freshening things up and starting a new challenge. Also, having this year been beaten by a team with the same engine supplier as themselves, perhaps they would prefer to be in an exclusive relationship.

[rixalex]

Just been announced that Bruno Senna will join F1 next year for one of the new teams.

As i was reading the news about Bruno i was reminded that he wasn't Ayrton's son as i sometimes like to think, but his nephew.

He is Ayrton's sister's son. Her name is Viviane Lalli.

Urm.... so surely he should be Bruno Lalli, unless i'm missing something?

Has he shamelessly used his uncle's name to get further in the sport?

[rixalex]

Well that was a walk in the park, if ever i saw one, for Lewis. Be interesting to see his fuel load. Don't get why he's so far ahead of the rest.

Any thoughts on the circuit?

It's different, i'll give it that much.

[ignis]

Car weights including fuel (in kg, by grid order)

1. HAMILTON McLaren 658.5

2. VETTEL Red Bull 663

3. WEBBER Red Bull 660

4. BARRICHELLO Brawn 655

5. BUTTON Brawn 657

6. TRULLI Toyota 661

7. KUBICA BMW 654.5

8. HEIDFELD BMW 664

9. ROSBERG Williams 665

10. BUEMI Toro Rosso 661.5

11. RAIKKONEN Ferrari 692

12. KOBAYASHI Toyota 694.3

13. KOVALAINEN McLaren 697

14. NAKAJIMA Williams 704

15. ALGUERSUARI Toro Rosso 696.5

16. ALONSO Renault 708.3

17. LIUZZI Force India 695

18. SUTIL Force India 696

19. GROSJEAN Renault 710.8

20. FISICHELLA Ferrari 692.5

[MJo]

Just been announced that Bruno Senna will join F1 next year for one of the new teams.

As i was reading the news about Bruno i was reminded that he wasn't Ayrton's son as i sometimes like to think, but his nephew.

He is Ayrton's sister's son. Her name is Viviane Lalli.

Urm.... so surely he should be Bruno Lalli, unless i'm missing something?

Has he shamelessly used his uncle's name to get further in the sport?

When Ayrton left McLaren to join Williams in 1993 he said in his farewell speech to the team "if you think i'm fast just wait to see my nephew Bruno". He was 10 years old at the time and drove karts with Senna and beat him most of the time as he was lighter.

If i remember correctly after Senna's death his mother pulled him out of racing but once he got older he started again. Thus entering to F1 quite old age.