"red" And "yellow" Foreigners

[rixalex]

We were both being sarcastic.

No flies on you!

[Xangsamhua]

Also the concept of liberalism is totally different in Europe and the US.

Henry's right. Outside the US, liberalism usually refers to less government control; in the US it refers to more.

[henryalleman]

Jinghting and Ulysses you proved my point brilliantly, couldn't do it better

I can be wrong, but I have the feeling that Europeans are more tolerant towards different opinions without throwing words like Commie, Nazi or Fascist. If I'm wrong just tell me.

BTW my opinion about GW Bush is very simply. If I was an American and use your terminology I would say.

He was not only a nitwit and an religious fanatic but also a dangerous one, because he is also a Fascist who was the puppet of a Nazi like Rumsfeld who used Gestapo and SS methods. Not yet to mention Cheney the puppet master, who ripped of the American people for billions of dollars and caused thousands of American and Iraci life's to serve his friends at Halliburton and Blackwater.

But I'm an Continental European who have a more balanced terminology.

So my opinion of Mr. Bush is that he was full of good intentions but he surrounded himself with the wrong people and that's why he did make some mistakes because he was misguided, and his internal and foreign policy was not a great succes.

[Jingthing]

In other words, you are a political wimp. I wouldn't expect anything else from a Hitler apologist. I hope you understand why intelligent Americans have total disdain for Euro snobs like yourself who don't have the cajones to unconditionally condemn total evil when it stares them in the face.

BTW, your satirical description of how a typical American left winger would describe Bush was totally incorrect.

[henryalleman]

In other words, you are a political wimp. I wouldn't expect anything else from a Hitler apologist. I hope you understand why intelligent Americans have total disdain for Euro snobs like yourself who don't have the cajones to unconditionally condemn total evil when it stares them in the face.

Raised up as an gentleman, I withhold further comments.

[Jingthing]

That's refreshing. The Continental has spoken and is now silent. The world is a better place when all Hitler apologists keep their warped admiration of the Fuehrer to themselves.

The Continental

withholding further comments

[sassienie]

The OP is attempting to combine Western politics with Thai political traditions in a way that, one must be black and the other white, or red and yellow in this case.

It doesn’t work.

Thai culture and Western values are totally different in many cases and there are no definite opposites within Thai politics, which is beyond the understanding of some Westerners.

Therefore what is the point of voting on something that is irrelevant?

[Ulysses G.]

Jinghting and Ulysses you proved my point brilliantly, couldn't do it better

I can be wrong, but I have the feeling that Europeans are more tolerant towards different opinions without throwing words like Commie, Nazi or Fascist. If I'm wrong just tell me.

BTW my opinion about GW Bush is very simply. If I was an American and use your terminology I would say.

He was not only a nitwit and an religious fanatic but also a dangerous one, because he is also a Fascist who was the puppet of a Nazi like Rumsfeld who used Gestapo and SS methods. Not yet to mention Cheney the puppet master, who ripped of the American people for billions of dollars and caused thousands of American and Iraci life's to serve his friends at Halliburton and Blackwater.

So you say exactly what you accuse Americans of saying - which is a perfect repetition of most left-wing Europeans political views - and pretend to soften it with your last - kinder - statement -which is exactly what I think about Bush - and is not what most lefty Eurotrash say at all. Someone is certainly full of sheet!

[canuckamuck]

I think the problem is that right or left wing descriptions only work when the concept of center is known and agreed upon (within certain parameters). This is why ‘right and left wing’ describes different attitudes in the US than those in Europe. For the most part Europe’s center is much further left. In Thailand however there is a different situation where right and left cannot describe political thinking. Mostly the direction seems to be backwards and then occasionally forwards. But neither the establishment backed parties nor the populist grass roots parties have any sort of politics that resemble actual liberalism or conservatism. The reason for this is the apparent disdain for the rule of law, and a population that tolerates (embraces) feudalism. Maybe in fifty years there will be sufficient maturity in Thai politics to make this comparison.

[Ulysses G.]

But I'm an Continental European who have a more balanced terminology.

Yeah, we have seen your 'balanced" views: Hitler was just a misunderstood guy who did heaps to make Nazi Germany a great country.

Pardon me if I do not buy it!

[Pierrot]

Useless Post - Deleted

[rixalex]

The OP is attempting to combine Western politics with Thai political traditions in a way that, one must be black and the other white, or red and yellow in this case.

It doesn't work.

Thai culture and Western values are totally different in many cases and there are no definite opposites within Thai politics, which is beyond the understanding of some Westerners.

Therefore what is the point of voting on something that is irrelevant?

I think you have misunderstood the poll. Either that or you are over-thinking it.

The essence of it was these two simple questions:

Which side do you support or sympathise with most, red or yellow?

Politically, how would you describe yourself - left, centre or right?

Are those questions so hard to answer?

I appreciate that we all have different definitions of what it means to be left, centre or right, but defining one's political persuasion is never going to be a scientific thing.

[TAWP]

Ulysses G. and Jingthing>> Supporting fascist acts as the Patriot Act goes against everything your nation is built upon and a spit in the face of your founding fathers. I have respect for many American thinkers - your fascist corporatist heroes are not any of them.

[Jingthing]

Ulysses G. and Jingthing>> Supporting fascist acts as the Patriot Act goes against everything your nation is built upon and a spit in the face of your founding fathers. I have respect for many American thinkers - your fascist corporatist heroes are not any of them.

That's good to know because you would be hard pressed to find an American more opposed to American style fascism (as well as Hitler style fascism) than yours truly. I can't speak for Ulysses.

[Ulysses G.]

It is common to introduce laws that limit one's freedom during times of war. The Patriot Act does not make any American happy, but there are times that one has to do what is best to keep our enemies at bay.

There have been no terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11. That says that the temporary sacrifice is probably worth it.

[TAWP]

It is common to introduce laws that limit one's freedom during times of war. The Patriot Act does not make any American happy, but there are times that one has to do what is best to keep our enemies at bay.

There have been no terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11. That says that the temporary sacrifice is probably worth it.

I have an anti-terrorist stone to sell to you...

[Jingthing]

Ulysses: no attacks under Obama too! So I guess you also love Obama!

[jumnien]

I think most political thinkers would agree that Bush and Obama, and for that matter Abhisit) are merely pawns for the same sinister forces who hold real power and benefit from the ridiculous right/left good/evil bickering that saps the energy of the populace and prohibits real change. There are of course real differences between Obama and Bush, as there are between Coke and Pepsi. But essentially, neither is orange juice and will never be regardless of what we might wish. Is all political dialogue a fruitless endeavor then? No, it exposes the psychoanalytic forces which motivate the arguer.

[thaihome]

The OP is attempting to combine Western politics with Thai political traditions in a way that, one must be black and the other white, or red and yellow in this case.

It doesn’t work.

Thai culture and Western values are totally different in many cases and there are no definite opposites within Thai politics, which is beyond the understanding of some Westerners.

Therefore what is the point of voting on something that is irrelevant?

This is so true. Thai political parties are not based on any ideology or political agenda other then getting into power and controlling the budget. To try correlate a western political view, i.e. left, right or center, is a waste of time. The only correlation I can see is that person with a western liberal bent is likely to believe the one sided bullshit that the BBC spews out about the PAD and TRT/PPP democratic elections.

The fact that the most vocal PAD critic here, admits his views are entirely based on his own economics and not what he thinks is best for Thailand is a clue to how Thai politics actually work.

TH

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses: no attacks under Obama too! So I guess you also love Obama!

I ended up voting for Obama and I certainly have a lot of respect for him. I do not agree with everything that he does, but there has never been a president that I did agree with 100%.

I love the fact that he is so young and hip and I like the fact that he is a liberal that moderates his views so that they have a chance of actually working.

I really hope that he turns out to be as good as he seems.

[MiG16]

Also the concept of liberalism is totally different in Europe and the US.

Henry's right. Outside the US, liberalism usually refers to less government control; in the US it refers to more.

could that be due to the fact that Americans tend to link terminology to the parties rather than the political concept and definition?

Ive realised that using the term libertarian helps alleviate this confusion that americans have developed and (republicans being liberal, or democrts being whatever...I can never remember which is which )

another thing I found is, in some places they use the term conservatism to describe the liberals (libertarian).

in my definition conservatism is a different category in itself, but those that use the term to describe liberals use this logic: that because the liberals propose less government control, including less government spending, hence they are adopting a conservative fiscal and monetary policy.

does the above logic makes sense to others?

[rixalex]

The fact that the most vocal PAD critic here, admits his views are entirely based on his own economics and not what he thinks is best for Thailand is a clue to how Thai politics actually work.

TH

I wonder who you could be refering to?

[Ulysses G.]

Hardly the "most vocal PAD critic", but supporting a bunch of idiots who ruined tourism in Thailand last year by taking over the airport at the beginning of high season is not exactly good for Thailand.

[sriracha john]

Hardly the "most vocal PAD critic", but supporting a bunch of idiots who ruined tourism in Thailand last year by taking over the airport at the beginning of high season is not exactly good for Thailand.

The smallest-minority-held opinion according to the poll thus far.

[Ulysses G.]

the poll

The 'sriracha john' poll?

[sriracha john]

the poll

The 'sriracha john' poll?

No, the TV poll at the top of this page

[Ulysses G.]

Oh, the one that has no place to choose "none of the above" - which is what most expats would choose - and which is almost evenly divided between yellows and reds with very few members even bothering to vote. That poll.

[sriracha john]

Oh, the one that has no place to choose "none of the above" - which is what most expats would choose - and which is almost evenly divided between yellows and reds with very few members even bothering to vote. That poll.

I look forward to participating in your re-worded poll.

[BigSnake]

I support neither. I for one stay clear of Thai Politics. However I do were my Red Shirt on Sunday and Yellow Shirt on Monday, this had to do with a long Thai Tradition and nothing what ever to do with Politic. I do express my opinion privately among farangs friends and very close Thai friends.

[Plus]

The red yellow divide in Thailand is about one person, not about ideologies.