Western Ideals In Regards To Relationships In Thailand

[473geo]

OK, so most everyone is a hero. Let's give every student an A every time also and pay clerks at 7-11 the same as executives. La de da ...

BTW, was it your Dad who taught you all the good things Adolph Hitler did? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...

I think you are almost there Jing.......replace 'hero' with 'deserves respect'.......and you have cracked it

[JimsKnight]

Without wanting to hit below the belt Jingthing.

I feel you're naturally biased as you're not straight and obviously don't feel any sexual connection to Thai women. Hence you'll be anti-BG from emotional point of view.

However I see you're argument on the Hero's/Heroine rejection. I don't see them as that either.

But they still put up with the crap and keep menfolk happy and keep the homefires burning (usually).

[Jingthing]

I think you are almost there Jing.......replace 'hero' with 'deserves respect'.......and you have cracked it

I agree with that. Everyone deserves respect unless they show they don't deserve respect. I totally agree that sex workers are human beings just like anyone else. Some people I cannot respect though, such as those who make a point of praising the accomplishments of Hitler like our Continental friend here.

[Jingthing]

Without wanting to hit below the belt Jingthing.

I feel you're naturally biased as you're not straight and obviously don't feel any sexual connection to Thai women. Hence you'll be anti-BG from emotional point of view

That was one of the most idiotic posts I have read this year. Ever heard of BAR BOYS? They know all the same lines, they all go to the same school: mother in hospital, buffalo sick, brother needs school fees.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[henryalleman]

OK, so most everyone is a hero. Let's give every student an A every time also and pay clerks at 7-11 the same as executives. La de da ...

BTW, was it your Dad who taught you all the good things Adolph Hitler did? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...

I could easily lower myself to your level, but I refuse it because my upbringing taught me not to do like that. But I guarantee you it is not easy to restrain myself to do so.

BTW, my Father was arrested by the Gestapo and was interrogated by them(I spare you the details) and was held 6 weeks in their quarters.

My uncle died in Bergen Belzen, after he was arrested by the Gestapo. His name is on the memorial plate.

[Jingthing]

Its quite queer then how someone like you could grow up to be a Hitler apologist. You should know better.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[tracer5050]

people marry for money all over the world. Not only in Asia. They just call it different thing behind closed doors.

[Maizefarmer]

I read a post once on a young Thai girl's blog where she criticized a Thai girl she saw shopping with a much older man. She said that although the cashier might not be able to buy the stuff that this Thai girl can because of her much older partner, the cashier can take pride in the fact that she has not stooped to this girl's level.

In Western culture, women who marry for money are looked upon badly. Many children movies contain caricatures of this type of female character and its looked upon negatively.

On this board, many go out of their way to clarify that they married a girl from a good family, a virgin, and not a girl from a bar.

The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do? Or do you views these girls as dumb for not taking the easy money?

Now many will say, that everyone make's their own choice and neither is good or bad, but I think in the back of those people's heads they make a judgment, they just choose not to share it publicly, which is fine, but this is just the internet, so share away.

The "marry for money" you refer to as been frowned upon in Western society, is not missed by folk in Thai society - oh, they know it when they see it - make no mistake about that - and its frowned upon no less.

What is different though is the contrast between the "haves" and the "have nots": in Thailand versus the "haves" and the "have nots" in Western society.

In the rural areas of Thailand they do indeed make a judgement: behind the often overt critism and disgust expressed in private about "the young lady down the road", or "so and so's duaghter" who's gone to work in Phuket, is a grudging "you lucky bastard" acknowldegement when they turn up 6months later with a "pale-face" in hand and talk of marrige - if you understand Thai well enough to understand local dialect and colloquel talk, you'll laugh your legs off listening to how women folk twitter on every time this happens.

Thai's are by no means reserved when it comes to discussing such matters between themselves - they are more willing to express themselves on the subject than Western folk are.

[mahtin]

http://www.aan.com/go/am/foundation/brain

[dave_boo]

When you think about it, it's quite a good rule.

When you're 20, she's 17;

your'e 30, she's 22;

you're 40, she's 27;

you're 50, she's 32

My wife won't be very happy when I'm going to tell her that if I want to respect Thai tradition I need to find a younger wife, but as people say, when in Rome ...nail a diety to a cross?

Oh, and for the record, I don't give a dam_n who's hooked up with who (although I would prefer if every other man in the world was gay--that would increase my chances of hooking up with the absolute stunners quite a bit!). If some cute young thing wants old wrinkly balls that have an atm card attached--up to her. If some geriatic wants to believe that she's in it for love, up to him. If I was wrong about the relationship in the last two sentence, well up to me.

FWIW, I married a Thai woman who is 5 months my elder (who's not a gold digger but definitely can not figure out how to keep a budget), so I guess that's just one my Thai custom I don't follow.....

[bobbysan124]

IMHO, considering the divorce rate, I'm American so I'll use that as a base, it would seem that whether or not there is an appreciable age difference, there are no guarantees of a successful and lasting marriage. And to quote Tina Turner, "what's love got to do with it?"

Same age or big discrepancy, two people are either into each other or not for reasons too numerous to mention. They either work at making it work or not and the chips fall where they may. Heard, and know first hand, too many stories of people being "madly in love with each other" (relatively same ages) and then dam_n near despising each other by the end. So, who gives a s_it. I say, if it feels right, go for it. Life is too short.

And, as stated previously, there seems to be some presumption that an older person is not capable of being a dam_n good lover - in and out of bed. And if anyone actually believes that then I've got a piece of a bridge in Brooklyn, New York, I'd like to sell them.

[Ulysses G.]

OK, so most everyone is a hero. Let's give every student an A every time also and pay clerks at 7-11 the same as executives. La de da ...

BTW, was it your Dad who taught you all the good things Adolph Hitler did? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree ...

IBTW, my Father was arrested by the Gestapo and was interrogated by them(I spare you the details) and was held 6 weeks in their quarters.

My uncle died in Bergen Belzen, after he was arrested by the Gestapo. His name is on the memorial plate.

Every race, religion and nationality has members who are not loyal to the rest of the group. During World War II some Jews actually collaborated with the Nazis and beat and killed other Jews, so they could live longer themselves.

They probably did some good things too.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kapo was a term used for certain prisoners who worked inside Nazi concentration camps during World War II in various lower administrative positions. The term is sometimes used to describe self-hating Jews and Jewish anti-Semites[1].

From Oliver Lustig's Dictionary of the Camp:

Vicenzo and Luigi Pappalettera

wrote in their book

The Brutes Have the Floor

^[3]

that, every time a new transport of detainees arrived at Mauthausen, Kapo August Adam picked out the professors, lawyers, priests and magistrates and cynically asked them: "Are you a lawyer? A professor? Good! Do you see this

green triangle

? This means I am a killer. I have five convictions on my record: one for manslaughter and four for robbery. Well, here I am in command. The world has turned upside down, did you get that? Do you need a Dolmetscher, an interpreter? Here it is!" And he was pointing to his bat, after which he striked. When he was satisfied, he formed a Scheisskompanie with those selected and sent them to clean the latrines.

^[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_(concentration_camp)

Edited March 23, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[TonySoprano]

Not many people seem to have actually understood the OP. Most went off on their own tangent. I guess this forum is like those ink blots. You open a thread and see what you want to see, or whatever personally troubles you.

[TonySoprano]

I read a post once on a young Thai girl's blog where she criticized a Thai girl she saw shopping with a much older man. She said that although the cashier might not be able to buy the stuff that this Thai girl can because of her much older partner, the cashier can take pride in the fact that she has not stooped to this girl's level.

In Western culture, women who marry for money are looked upon badly. Many children movies contain caricatures of this type of female character and its looked upon negatively.

On this board, many go out of their way to clarify that they married a girl from a good family, a virgin, and not a girl from a bar.

The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do? Or do you views these girls as dumb for not taking the easy money?

Now many will say, that everyone make's their own choice and neither is good or bad, but I think in the back of those people's heads they make a judgment, they just choose not to share it publicly, which is fine, but this is just the internet, so share away.

The "marry for money" you refer to as been frowned upon in Western society, is not missed by folk in Thai society - oh, they know it when they see it - make no mistake about that - and its frowned upon no less.

What is different though is the contrast between the "haves" and the "have nots": in Thailand versus the "haves" and the "have nots" in Western society.

In the rural areas of Thailand they do indeed make a judgement: behind the often overt critism and disgust expressed in private about "the young lady down the road", or "so and so's duaghter" who's gone to work in Phuket, is a grudging "you lucky bastard" acknowldegement when they turn up 6months later with a "pale-face" in hand and talk of marrige - if you understand Thai well enough to understand local dialect and colloquel talk, you'll laugh your legs off listening to how women folk twitter on every time this happens.

Thai's are by no means reserved when it comes to discussing such matters between themselves - they are more willing to express themselves on the subject than Western folk are.

Interesting post.

[TonySoprano]

There most definitely is a choice. At some point for these gals (and guys), someone in their families most likely made the decision to live beyond their means... whether in terms of alcohol, motorcycle, television, cell phone, automobile, or real estate purchase. All without a care and without absolute common sense logic (no formal education required as it's simple addition and subtraction) that they would come up short at some point in the future. All without a care that someone would have to pay the bill.

Given, there is a cultural difference here in that many westerners will draw the line between self and family. If your folks screw up and put the farm in hock, you are less likely to break your back to save the farm (because it's their problem, not yours). Hence, there will be some disagreement between those who feel there is a "choice" or not.

Another interesting post.

[tmd5855]

"The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do?"

Yes I do. I look down on poor girls (who may have the looks advantage) to sell their bodies and/or go for older men who buy them gifts. I look down on financially comfortable girls who do the same even more.

I respect immensely the poor girls who make a choice to study and work at the same time whilst maintaining good Thai morals. Plenty of them who wouldn't dream of taking up offers of materialsm in exchange for a fake relationship.

I have total admiration for any young girl, anywhere in the world, who when faced with the impossible choices to earn a living, put aside their own preferences, to provide for their families and children. They accept scorn and ridicule from people like youself. Yet they are prepared to suffer for the greater good, sometimes in loveless marriages far from the families they support. They are heroes.

There's a saying in Thailand that people do not starve in this country. Quite true I'm sure. Choices are still available...do you want to enough or do you want more? The girls selling themselves are quite able to be like the student in MK or 7-11 making a pittance, sharing their room and possibly sending a small amount home if it's needed. If you think the girl selling herself is doing a fine job of bettering her life financially, and helping out her family then we have very different views.

Another slant at things.

My TGF who has been living with me these past few years worked a bar for 11 days before I met her. She was checked out and all was kosher. For the past few years a fixed amount of Sterling has been transferred to her account, from that the rent and all domestic bills are paid. With the £ bombing downards against the Baht, awaited her plea for more money?? Instead on arriving home on leave she suprised me, said she was now working at the 7/11 shop.

That money went to her family. She said she has no accomodation cost's so the reduced baht that is left for her is more than enough she says.

There are honest Thais whose priority is the family and if earn enough in a shop will work in a shop.

There but for the grace of God goes I (you)

Edited March 23, 2009 by tmd5855

[TenDreams]

Just read the book 'Thailand Fever' last night, highly recommended if you haven't already. Covers a lot of the topics that come up again and again (and again) on here.

[t.s]

Mute point - the description is mine you take offence at a word - not the principal statement.

mute point?

is that like a finger of speech?

a statue of limitations, or adding salt to the jury?

[clausewitz]

Looks good in principle.........

Now apply the fact that most Thai women look 10 years younger than they are......what are you 'seeing' on the streets?

Living in thailand for 4 years, speak good thai, been visiting here since 1985 and have yet to meet a Thai women (or man) that looked ten years younger than her age.

My current Mia noi is 21 and looks maybe..... 21.

[Geekfreaklover]

"The question I have is, do you look at all those Thai girls out there who work long hard hours for low wages and are not willing to sell their bodies as being morally superior to those who do?"

Yes I do. I look down on poor girls (who may have the looks advantage) to sell their bodies and/or go for older men who buy them gifts. I look down on financially comfortable girls who do the same even more.

I respect immensely the poor girls who make a choice to study and work at the same time whilst maintaining good Thai morals. Plenty of them who wouldn't dream of taking up offers of materialsm in exchange for a fake relationship.

I have total admiration for any young girl, anywhere in the world, who when faced with the impossible choices to earn a living, put aside their own preferences, to provide for their families and children. They accept scorn and ridicule from people like youself. Yet they are prepared to suffer for the greater good, sometimes in loveless marriages far from the families they support. They are heroes.

Yes. But would you want your daughter to work as a prostitute?

[Jingthing]

Yes. But would you want your daughter to work as a prostitute?

Exactly! And decent Thai people don't want their sons and daughters whoring themselves either. People totally exaggerate the cultural differences in this respect.

[Ulysses G.]

='Geekfreaklover' date='2009-03-23 14:39:16' post='2614254']

Yes. But would you want your daughter to work as a prostitute?

If there were no negative stigma to it and my daughter wanted to do it, I would not be opposed. It is only because we are so brain washed by society that it is so looked down on. The truth is that many relationships are based on money, but everyone wants to pretend otherwise and prostitution is too much of a reminder.

[MiG16]

please remember that discussion of prostitution is against forum rules

(by the way, I risk violating the rule myself, but will take the chance to pose this question I have posed numerous times to friends/acquaintances/strangers whenever the topic comes up: oh nevermind....I better not. those that are curious enough can PM me )

lets stay within forum rules and not venture into grey area

[Ulysses G.]

Yes. But would you want your daughter to work as a prostitute?

Exactly! And decent Thai people don't want their sons and daughters whoring themselves either. People totally exaggerate the cultural differences in this respect.

I agree with you on many things, but not this. I know too many girls whose parents have pressured them into the business or are fully aware of what they are doing to go along with that.

I even know girls from fairly well off families who do a spell in a Karoake Bar to raise money quickly and make no attempt to hide it. Selling sex is a traditional way to make money here.

Mods, I was writing this while you were posting the warning and did not know about it when I posted. Deleteof this if you want.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Geekfreaklover]

Yes. But would you want your daughter to work as a prostitute?

Exactly! And decent Thai people don't want their sons and daughters whoring themselves either. People totally exaggerate the cultural differences in this respect.

I agree with you on many things, but not this. I know too many girls whose parents have pressured them into the business or are fully aware of what they are doing to go along with that.

I even know girls from fairly well off families who do a spell in a Karoake Bar to raise money quickly and make no attempt to hide it. Selling sex is a traditional way to make money here.

Mods, I was writing this while you were posting the warning and did not know about it when I posted. Deleteof this if you want.

Look at it. Are you a parent?

If so and if you knew that your daughter was pulling tricks would you look the other way becasue prostitution is right and society is wrong in saying that prostitution is wrong?

The moral answer should be no. If your son or daughter was working the streets you would do everything that you can to get them out of that situation if you were a decent human being. That is what being a parent is about.

You can't justify letting you child work as a prostitute. People wrap it up with culture. That is pure BS. Thai's let there children do this kind of work for two reasons. MONEY. MONEY and GREED FOR MONEY.

GFL.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Ulysses G.]

We have been warned not to continue talking about this subject. I very much disagree with you, but I do not need any unwanted vacations from Thai Visa.

[Jingthing]

I would like to publicly apologize to the poster H. Alleman. By way of PMs he has convinced me he is not a lover of Adolph Hitler, but is merely naive in thinking that many people will not assume him to be so by parading Hitler's "good deeds" on a public internet forum. However, I must also report that I am just as totally convinced that Mr. H.A. is indeed rabidly anti-American, a common enough state of being and even fully understandable given recent history. I calls em like I sees em.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

I'm sure we're all immensely relieved that you've been gracious enough to offer half an apology to someone whose point of view you don't agree with and whose posts you continue to misinterpret. Isn't it about time you set up another irrelevant poll?

[Jingthing]

Isn't it about time you set up another irrelevant poll?

The polls, they just come out, like bowel movements, you can't force them. When it is time, it will happen.

[endure]

Isn't it about time you set up another irrelevant poll?

The polls, they just come out, like bowel movements, you can't force them. When it is time, it will happen.

Let's hope you never suffer from diarrhoea