Male Landlord Violating My Rights?

[SiamSuzi]

I rented a condo, paid in advance. It was nothing formal. Just paid cash and got him to write up a receipt. My rental term is up and I plan on vacating tomorrow. I went out to get coffee today and upon returning, he was coming out of my condo. Yes, he waited until I left then went into my personal space.

He complained that I'd left the air conditioner on and also said he was going to have to charge me a 500 baht cleaning fee. I told him that I'd clean before I vacated, but he insisted that he will be here tomorrow as I am leaving and that I must pay.

First, I didn't agree to a cleaning fee for moving out. Second, is there any law or something regarding him entering the condo while I am out at the store? I feel like he's totally violated my privacy and personal rights. I'm a young female, he's an older man. It just doesn't seem right that he should be in the condo while I'm out.

At first I posted this in the housing forum, but I'd actually rather it be here because as a young female, I feel totally creeped out by this older Western man coming into my personal space like this, and trying to pressure me into paying him more money. He talks to me somewhat condescendingly to begin with, and treats me as though I'm some bewildered little thing. He's terribly mistaken. I can be a vicious force to be reckoned with (though I prefer to keep things pleasant). I guess in a way I'm ranting, but also interested to know if this is a standardly accepted thing around here. Do landlords just come in while you're out? And can they legally just decide to charge extra fees?

[sbk]

I think you'd be better off in the housing forum Suzi, there are some real housing/landlord experts in there and you will probably find the answers to your questions faster.

Let me know if and/or when you would like it moved.

[neverdie]

Another Rental Dispute thread.

Suzi, does he have any bond money?

[SiamSuzi]

I'm thinking that when you say "bond" it's the same as a "rental deposit". If that's the case, then no. I didn't pay one.

SBK, I guess it can be moved to housing since it directly deals with housing matters. I just posted it here because I feel like it's a female matter too. I feel like he's pushing me around because he views me as a young helpless female he can take advantage of. I doubt he'd be pulling this stuff if I were an older Western male.

Edited March 24, 2009 by SiamSuzi

[peter991]

I think you are over-reacting, Suzi. Let's have a look at the facts:

1) You are vacating the condo tomorrow. The landlord seems to be quite within his rights to check that the condo is in a satisfactory condition to relet tomorrow so he is not out of pocket.

2) When was the electricity meter read last? Perhaps as soon as you gave notice, it was read a few days ago, so that you can move out and the landlord will not need to chase you up for outstanding utility bill.

Yes - in Farangland things would have been more formal - with letters exchanged stating when he will visit and inspect the condo. But - this is Thailand. Just be grateful he did not show prospective tenants through your condo at all hours of the day and night in the last month of your lease.

Peter

[neverdie]

I'm thinking that when you say "bond" it's the same as a "rental deposit". If that's the case, then no. I didn't pay one.

SBK, I guess it can be moved to housing since it directly deals with housing matters. I just posted it here because I feel like it's a female matter too. I feel like he's pushing me around because he views me as a young helpless female he can take advantage of. I doubt he'd be pulling this stuff if I were an older Western male.

Yes, sorry I meant rental deposit, so you havent paid one, what a dam_n shame. Once you've moved your stuff out and cleaned up satisfactorily, tell him that you would of gladly paid the 500 baht, but since he voilated your space he can go suck eggs for better choice of the word. I wouldnt be giving him a red penny, rude baaastard....you say hes a farang, he should know better.

Have you checked to see if anything is missing?

[sbk]

I'm thinking that when you say "bond" it's the same as a "rental deposit". If that's the case, then no. I didn't pay one.

SBK, I guess it can be moved to housing since it directly deals with housing matters. I just posted it here because I feel like it's a female matter too. I feel like he's pushing me around because he views me as a young helpless female he can take advantage of. I doubt he'd be pulling this stuff if I were an older Western male.

Possible, or it could be he's just a jerk and would do this to anybody.

Moved to the housing forum

[SiamSuzi]

Peter, I feel like ofcourse he's within his rights to make sure the condo is in proper order, but he should set up a day/time with me to come take a look. He shouldn't just wait until I go out and sneak in and snoop around without so much as telling me. That's a violation of privacy, and frankly it's creepy.

Second, utilities were included in the rental price. I've paid everything I agreed to. I don't have any outstanding balances.

Neverdie - that's what I was thinking... This guy is farang and he should know better. He's either a slimy weasel or really stupid.

I'm torn. The angel on my shoulder says "Clean up, give him the money he wants because he obviously needs it more than you, and be on your way", but the American on my other shoulder says "F this guy. Tell him you're charging HIM 10,000 baht for violating your privacy and trying to take advantage of you".

[JimmyTheMook]

I'm thinking that when you say "bond" it's the same as a "rental deposit". If that's the case, then no. I didn't pay one.

SBK, I guess it can be moved to housing since it directly deals with housing matters. I just posted it here because I feel like it's a female matter too. I feel like he's pushing me around because he views me as a young helpless female he can take advantage of. I doubt he'd be pulling this stuff if I were an older Western male.

Step on his ballz a bit then , ask him if he is a registered Thai company paying taxes on his income derived from renting the condo to you.

Also have the local immigrations phone number handy if you need to call his bluff.

[YaiJung]

I agree that his behavior is pretty creepy. Not much you can do other than just take your stuff and leave.

Hate to say it, but if he had been Thai, it's quite possible he would have been snooping through your place on a regular basis without you knowing. Several Thai landlords I have rented from have done this to me. They seem to think since they own the place they can feel free to look around whenever they want, usually when I was out. Extremely annoying!

The 500 baht cleaning fee is pretty normal and minimal at that. Once again, if he had been Thai and if you had paid a deposit, you probably wouldn't be getting it back and would be in a much worse situation, trying to chase him all over town for the money, etc. They have a habit of disappearing when it's time to give back the deposit.

If you are really pissed off at this guy, as I believe you rightly are, just take your stuff and split. Not worth getting too upset over, IMO.

[toptuan]

A good reason to have a hasp on the outside of your exterior door, with a padlock for which only YOU have the key. Standard practice in every apartment/house in our area.

Every month, when the landlord comes around to collect his rent, he is welcome to inspect the premises, and sometimes does. No problem for me, as I'm there.

In direct response to your question, a western male, of all people, should know the impropriety of entering your private quarters, unannounced, in your absence. In most western countries, the landlord has to give notice for inspection of premises so these types of things don't happen. How could you sleep at night, knowing this sleezeball could enter your home at any time, perhaps in a drunken, horny state of mind? (just to boost the drama a bit).

Unfortunately, I doubt if there's anything in Thai law to support your grievance; but ethically, the guy is way off-base, IMHO. If you know other renters of his, they should be warned.

Edited March 24, 2009 by toptuan

[joskydive]

As most have stated, just take your stuff and go, but I'd go before he got out of bed. The guy is way out of order and is probably taking advantage of your youth. Unfortunately, you have no written agreement to protect you and likewise, he hasn't either.

He cannot demand extra monies from you, there is no agreement, but it has been known that maybe they confiscate personal property and won't return it until you pay them the money they demand.

Protect yourself, your belonging and leave quickly. No forwarding address.

[neverdie]

Suzi,

Perhaps your boyfriend 'neverdie' should come and assist you tommorrow for the 'move out'. My stats are: 7'2, 155 to 160kg & Im as ugly and bad as they come .....I could bust sum arse and get ur 10k, no problem

ps: I am kidding of course, but surely someone will be with you tommorrow?

Edited March 24, 2009 by neverdie

[SiamSuzi]

LOL!!!

[hhgz]

"He...said he was going to have to charge me a 500 baht cleaning fee."

Wow, 500THB, and you didn't have to pay any deposit. If I was you, I'd hire an attorney...

[LennyW]

Peter, I feel like ofcourse he's within his rights to make sure the condo is in proper order, but he should set up a day/time with me to come take a look. He shouldn't just wait until I go out and sneak in and snoop around without so much as telling me. That's a violation of privacy, and frankly it's creepy.

Second, utilities were included in the rental price. I've paid everything I agreed to. I don't have any outstanding balances.

Neverdie - that's what I was thinking... This guy is farang and he should know better. He's either a slimy weasel or really stupid.

I'm torn. The angel on my shoulder says "Clean up, give him the money he wants because he obviously needs it more than you, and be on your way", but the American on my other shoulder says "F this guy. Tell him you're charging HIM 10,000 baht for violating your privacy and trying to take advantage of you".

Absolutely, sounds like a right weasel!

[girlx]

hmm i guess i have been lucky- i have always had really great landlords in thailand. i do think the 500 baht cleaning fee is pretty standard in BKK, should have been in your agreement though.

as for him in your space, you're out tomorrow, i would just shrug it off.

[pumpuiman]

Landlords are within their rights to inspect the space, at a stretch he's a bit rude but not committing any crime.

You should be thankful that the guy is an idiot for not taking a deposit.

Personally, I'd pay the 500 baht just to shut the guy up....and avoid having to clean.

Sure, you could mess with the guy.....but is it worth the very real possibility of trouble you may encounter?

After reading the countless horror stories about dealing with Thai landlords, your one lucky girl.

Now you want to throw stones at a bees nest?

[SiamSuzi]

I'm not upset about the amount of this fee he wants to charge, just about the fact that he is trying to impose a fee which he never mentioned before. And when I told him I'd clean and make it spotless, he still wanted to just charge a cleaning fee. I don't think it's the cleaning he's worried about. He just wants to try and extract extra money from me. Maybe 500 isn't much, but the way he's doing things are shady and slimy. It's probably just because he saw the air conditioner turned on while I was at the store. He's not Thai either. He's American, so he can't hide behind the veil of "that's just how Thais are".

Regardless, the big issue is that he waits in the lobby until I leave then snoops in my private abode. Why didn't he just ask to come in and inspect? Shady! And creepy! And it doesn't really make me feel too safe.

Not to mention that when I moved in, he called and wanted to come inside to pick up his "gym shorts". Then he calls once a week to see how I'm doing, and always mentions how the weather is perfect and he thought I'd be out sunbathing. Yeah, it all sounds like he's being nice, but if he were really nice then he'd have taken care of the issue he promised to take care of, about getting my fingerscan in the office so I didn't have to keep asking security to let me in. He's creepy, not nice. Nice is the veil he wears to mask how inapropriate he is. I wonder if he's a criminal or offender back in the U.S.

I'm out of here tomorrow anyways, so what ever.

[neverdie]

Yes Suzi, he sounds like a real creep! Typical American.

Now, you wouldnt happen to have a pic of you in that bikini sunbathing, would you?

I hope he isnt one of these landlords that has a secret hidden camera in the shower

[BEDBANDIT]

every time i have rented a condo / apartment for over a month , i have been hit with a cleaning fee ...... normally 400b

my GF was staying with me at the time and she cleaned up good a proper ...... not like us males do

it was a thai landlord ...... we still had to pay ... i just except it now.

as for the matter of a Westerner entering your place ...... i would give him both barrels don't hold back susi tell him what you think !!. i would off called the tourist police .

He might not have taken anything ...... instead he could of planted something ...... ever thought of that ???

if you can , move now .... hope it all works out

Edited March 24, 2009 by BEDBANDIT

[simon43]

I agree that his behavior is pretty creepy. Not much you can do other than just take your stuff and leave.

[\quote]

Good suggestion. Might also be prudent to check that he hasn't stolen any of your underwear.....

Simon

[Meg_2003]

The cleaning fee is normal. I rented 2 apartments (joining rooms) last year, and I had to pay 200 baht per room for cleaning. Unfortunately, they only hit us with this bill AFTER I had been on my hands and knee's cleaning the place up. And they had seen me cleaning all day.... So before finally leaving, I trashed the place with old soil, sand and leaves...

You're VERY lucky that you weren't charged a deposit!!!

[retirednavyman]

Yes Suzi, he sounds like a real creep! Typical American.

Now, you wouldnt happen to have a pic of you in that bikini sunbathing, would you?

I hope he isnt one of these landlords that has a secret hidden camera in the shower

Be careful, you're stereotyping!

[toptuan]

Yes Suzi, he sounds like a real creep! Typical American.

OK you Creep, you just offended 30% of Thai Visa members!

[harrry]

Why is the topic Male Landlord. I would think his sex is not relevant to the post.

[neverdie]

Yes Suzi, he sounds like a real creep! Typical American.

Now, you wouldnt happen to have a pic of you in that bikini sunbathing, would you?

I hope he isnt one of these landlords that has a secret hidden camera in the shower

Be careful, you're stereotyping!

Yes Suzi, he sounds like a real creep! Typical American.

OK you Creep, you just offended 30% of Thai Visa members! dam_n it I always aim to offend more than 80% of people in any given post....I fell dam_n short of that .

BINGO! Just dragged two of you out of the woods. The first sentence was said tongue in cheek in order to place myself for the second comment which I have highlighted above.....so yes if anyone was being 'creepy' it was me. So back in your boxes .

Harry, I think the fact that Suzi has brought up the sex of the landlord has to do with the fact she feels as if she has been voilated by this creep, who is snooping around in her room when he knows she is out......she obviously feels he wouldnt be doing that kind of thing to a man, just shes young, beautiful, sexy & all of that (thats how it is in my mind anyway).

I was serious about the hidden camera theory & perhaps Simon is right, perhaps he took a pair of her underwear to remember her by :jerk: .

Main thing is, hopefully Suzi is free of there today & safe away from Mr Creepy.....I mean the 'other' Mr Creepy

Edited March 25, 2009 by neverdie

[Cuban]

This response is somewhat after the event - however FWIW and to aid people in the future - in that situation an informal response could be to publize the person in question via a few web sites, shame the guy. An offical response would be to involve the Thai police and Immigration - as someone mentions above does he have a WP for collecting rental etc. Very few WPs will allow non-Thais to directly handle the cash.

[Asianrider]

Violated is a strong word. Lot of landlords want to check their condo/house as tenancy expires, but not sneak inside behind the tenant's back.

Most landlords accept that tenants may domestically clean their apartment themselves, others will insist it is professionally cleaned by a third party. If i was moving in afterwards, i would like to think that it has been independantly cleaned.

Rental agreements go a long way to avoiding these types of issue's by dealing with landlord's access rights, and tenant's obligations at end of lease.

[SiamSuzi]

Well Mr. Neverdie, I might just be catching a case of the vapors! I wasn't sure if you were being facetious or not. I do have plenty of bikini pics, you're right... because I model bikinis professionally (though only part time).

Anyhow, you're right on the mark about why I mentioned the landlord's gender: too many creepy coincidences to just pass off.

He called me like 3 times last night too, to make sure we set a time for him to come over this morning as he wanted to be there when I officially moved out.

Joke's on that guy, I left 3 hours before our meeting time!

It's not generally in my character to pull a stunt like that as I'm usually pretty "by the rules", but this guy was way out of line. Seriously, waiting until I leave my apartment to sneak in behind my back? Come one. Again, he's American and should know better. Creepy Americans! (I can say that because I'm American too, and a lot of us are indeed creepy).

Anyways, I was going to clean, but then I accidentally, well, I forgot. Ooops, my bad!

I didn't leave the money either, as it was never a part of the agreement. He could have easily mentioned it when we were negotiating price. He didn't feel obligated to bring it up before hand, and I didn't feel obligated to pay it afterwards.

Actually, I half expected him to show up early, in which case I'd have given him an earful and made him feel like the dumbest ass walking the face of the earth. I'm generally very nice, polite, proper, and socially graceful, but I don't like it when people try to take advantage of me. I do have teeth and claws and they've been known to rip some gaping holes. I prefer when I don't have to show them though.

Anyhow, yeah I thought of the whole camera in the bathroom thing. In fact, there was a hole in the ceiling which I stuffed a wash cloth into when I first arrived. You never know, these wierdos. I mean, didn't they find Jean Benet Ramsey's murderer over here in BKK? There are ALL kinds. I'm not being paranoid. They're really full force in this city. It's so easy. You can check into cheap guest houses without any ID or credit card. You can flee your country and disappear here.

Some people might live in a rose tinted world, but I keeps it REAL!