10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[hammered]

To have an election first everyone must agree on the ground rules and currently they dont. Under what constitution, who can stand etc. If people dont agree then the election outcome will not be accepted. The truth at the moment is that if the politicans dont come to some agreement then this will go on and on whatever temporary solution is proposed. Whenever the ruling classes of a country fall out, which is the case here, the only non-violent solution is that they come to a compromise and then at some point let the people they rule choose.

Right now you couldnt even have a fair election as how could PTPs campaign in Chumpon and Dems in Chaing Rai. The whole situation is just ludicrous.

[justanothercybertosser]

Turning to the thread in hand, one amusing irony is that the arguments being put forward against the red terror are beginning to sound curiously similar to the arguments put forward a few months ago against their yellow equivalents.

... paired very little analyses of ideological background of the opposing groups paired with complete ignorance towards changes and developments of ideological positions.

And that would be very important, because these ideological positions show that Thailand is moving towards massive upheavals.

[sriracha john]

What Fascists "look like"? Don't judge the content of a package by its appearance. Just because PAD has long hair compared to the stereotype of the shaven skinhead does not mean that they are any less fascist (and that stereotype isn not even true in Europe - many skinheads are actually leftists, and the Neonazi black block looks exactly the same as the radical left - long hair, black dress, etc.)

I would like to ask you kindly stop to write nonsense, you are making a fool of yourself.

actually, between Insight and Henry, this thread is getting better all the time.

No wonder such comments of "Insight" and "Henry" appeal to you - the intellectual level of this debate has now successfully been brought down to a beer hall slugfest.

You have a lot of experience in that environment, do you?

[hammered]

So what happens now? Violence? Crackdown? Coup? Everyone goes home and nothing? Negotiations? Elections? PAD come out? Blue shirts come out? Revolution? Speech?

[h90]

So what happens now? Violence? Crackdown? Coup? Everyone goes home and nothing? Negotiations? Elections? PAD come out? Blue shirts come out? Revolution? Speech?

In one week the money is finished, the red shirts go home, Abhisit goes into the GH.

End of next month the same thing again.

[Steve2UK]

Whatever one thinks of Thaksin, the sight of a former-PM calling for a coup or civil-war on the streets of his homeland is a sign of extreme desperation or mental-illness, and I would have thought it unlikely to help his repeated-demands for a pardon.

He has attacked Prem and the Privy Council before, look where that led, now he repeats the failed strategy. He simply fails to learn from experience. Not the sort of person who should be running the country, or indeed anything else, in the midst of a global economic crisis, when the country has more important things to worry about.

Good points, but......

From TOC

FLASH NEWS: Royal Household Bureau Denies Existence of Pardon Requests by Thaksin

UPDATE : 13 March 2009

The Royal Household Bureau reveals that it has never received any pardon request from former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Following news report by Japan Times that ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has submitted, not one, but 3 requests for a royal pardon. But the Royal Household Bureau reveals that it has never received such a request from Thaksin.

Staunch supporter of Thaksin, Jatupron Phromphan, has also come out to clarify the matter. He explained Thaksin hadn't submitted a request for a royal pardon. According to Jatuporn, Thaksin merely submitted documents in his defence against the various charges which have been filed against him.

[Steve2UK]

No wonder such comments of "Insight" and "Henry" appeal to you - the intellectual level of this debate has now successfully been brought down to a beer hall slugfest.

You have a lot of experience in that environment, do you?

please try to do in the future without childish name-calling.

Thank you.

[hammered]

Pheu Thai Party MP Natthawut Saikua told red-shirted people to disperse from their rallies at provincial halls, starting from 10 am.

From the Nation at:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...o-disperse-at-1

Cabinet meeting also called off.

Everybody takes a step back?

[hammered]

Can we please try and avoid the persoanl attacks. They are offputting and make the thread hard to follow.

[Plus]

Having elections means suspending govt policies for about six months and then starting some other "emergency" solutions.

Besides, it's silly to believe reds calls for elections when they have repeatedly obstructed rival parties campaigning, dispersing Democrat rallies and attacking Democrat politicians.

They have no idea how to participate in democratic elections whatsoever and shouldn't be indulged until they change their ways, or it would simply reenforce the idea that shutting down opposing voices by force is part of democracy.

Yes, right, we should get rid of these stupid elections, they just disturb the business of running the country.

You can't have elections when one side is determined to physically beat the crap out of the other. It would be like Zimbabwe in some areas here.

[Denim]

This man said when he heard Khun Thaksin promised during election campaigns, he did not believe. He said many governments came and went and could not do what they promised.

Anyway Thai Rak Thai won. He went to hospital using the 30 Baht card. They asked him to come back in another 15 days, then they provided him man-made leg(s) costing more than 50,000 Baht. He paid only 30 Baht. He was so moved.

In the "Red in the Land" talk on Saturday and Sunday on DStation, a few people opened their shirts and showed the scars they had heart operation for 30 Baht. They all were very moved.

No one cared for them in the past. They know they were not wrong when voting for Khun Thaksin.

Other women said in the past they couldn't find money to set up a noodle cart to sell in the market. After Khun Thaksin came, they could wear aprons and walked into a bank to borrow money, using village loan program.

During those days, Democrat Party laughed at those programs but now they still keep. Because they can't think of anything better. They only know to give budget for Newin group, those ministries having PAD holding positions such as Foreign Ministry, a little for coalition parties and what they do best is to give out free money and to borrow money. They have the history of playing political games only and not having any sensible theory.

Even Abhisit wants to give out free medical cares, no red will vote for Democrat Party. The reds are protesting because Abhisit did not come by a true democracy way and is a representative for noble system against democracy.

Good post Koo. These are some of the reasons Thaksin will always be popular with the rural poor. He was the first to give them help.......not handouts.

[Denim]

Protest will be over by Monday. Koo is delusional. Thaksin doesn't love you Koo. He doesn't care about you. He only cares about his money. You are fighting for Thaksin's money. If you are ok with that, great!

Hmmmm....you forgot to mention which Monday ? Use a date next time. Hows the training for your naked run coming along ?

[sriracha john]

Thaksin: to return Thailand if coup staged

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra says he will return to Thailand if a coup d’état is staged and will lead all United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) supporters to restore true democracy to Thailand.

Thaksin said during his video-link talk at the gathering of the UDD in front of the Government House last night (March 30), asserting he would bring back the true democracy and pleading for more UDD supporters to show up in the gathering and to withstand all kinds of dictatorship.

Thaksin also affirmed that if a gunshot was heard or people injured, he would lead the people to fight for true democracy.

In addition, Thaksin challenged Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya to seize his passport back as well.

- ThaiNews / 2009-03-31

Edited March 31, 2009 by Jai Dee
Emphasised test de-emphasised as per original news report

[Wolfie]

Civil war, unrest and blood on the Streets... he desperately wants his frozen assets back, doesn't he?

[jayboy]

Having elections means suspending govt policies for about six months and then starting some other "emergency" solutions.

Besides, it's silly to believe reds calls for elections when they have repeatedly obstructed rival parties campaigning, dispersing Democrat rallies and attacking Democrat politicians.

They have no idea how to participate in democratic elections whatsoever and shouldn't be indulged until they change their ways, or it would simply reenforce the idea that shutting down opposing voices by force is part of democracy.

Yes, right, we should get rid of these stupid elections, they just disturb the business of running the country.

You can't have elections when one side is determined to physically beat the crap out of the other. It would be like Zimbabwe in some areas here.

I'm not sure this is a good reason, but generally I don't think this is a time for elections.This country is facing an economic crisis of the first order.By design or good luck we have a competent administration who should be allowed to concentate on essentials.The reds have made their point and should stand down.Thaksin should be allowed to stew in his own juice, and blowhards like Kasit should be told to pipe down.When elections do come -late 2010? - Thais should swallow their pride and international observers should be allowed for the full electoral cycle (not just to monitor the violence on both sides Plus mentions but also to ensure the military/elite group don't try and rig the result -as they tried last time round.

[animatic]

Civil war, unrest and blood on the Streets... he desperately wants his frozen assets back, doesn't he?

Succinctly.

[Plus]

There are simply no reasons to hold the elections.

Neither the govt nor parliament work is paralised. A couple of thousands of protesters holding the gates in the daytime is not a reason.

Granted, last week I thought the protest would wind down by Monday, obviously they managed to carry it on, with fresh reenforcements arriving from up country. Today the nationwide (Isan and North only) rallies were called off, however, and Abhisit is gone for a week.

So far the govt dismissed the protests but that might change. Blocking the govt from working is actually illegal, if reds continue to do so they lose all their high moral ground and rules will change overnight.

They can't demand prosecution for PAD and do exactly the same things themselves, and police actions against them would be legal and justified. They can scream "but PAD got away with it" all they want - let them live through Oct 7 mayhem first, then they re-evaluate what "get away" really means.

The police will try to clear the gates without applying undue force and if reds are seen as provoking violence, they won't get any sympathy from the general public, and Thaksin will have to step up and lead the troops. He needs those extra treason charges, apparently.

PAD, in the meantime, is getting vocal about allowing Thaksin to freely attack coutnry's institutions, they have a point about national security and Thaksin led insurrection. Some Dems are also fed up with it, and Suthep is not the one to stand down in a fight. Without Abhisit around some hot heads might prevail and reds might get more than they bargain for.

[Ricardo]

Whatever one thinks of Thaksin, the sight of a former-PM calling for a coup or civil-war on the streets of his homeland is a sign of extreme desperation or mental-illness, and I would have thought it unlikely to help his repeated-demands for a pardon.

He has attacked Prem and the Privy Council before, look where that led, now he repeats the failed strategy. He simply fails to learn from experience. Not the sort of person who should be running the country, or indeed anything else, in the midst of a global economic crisis, when the country has more important things to worry about.

Good points, but......

From TOC

FLASH NEWS: Royal Household Bureau Denies Existence of Pardon Requests by Thaksin

UPDATE : 13 March 2009

The Royal Household Bureau reveals that it has never received any pardon request from former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Following news report by Japan Times that ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has submitted, not one, but 3 requests for a royal pardon. But the Royal Household Bureau reveals that it has never received such a request from Thaksin.

Staunch supporter of Thaksin, Jatupron Phromphan, has also come out to clarify the matter. He explained Thaksin hadn't submitted a request for a royal pardon. According to Jatuporn, Thaksin merely submitted documents in his defence against the various charges which have been filed against him.

Fair comment, but it was reported as a request for a pardon, and the denial & explanation by Jatupron is a familiar Thaksin stratagem, saying different things to different people, then denying it all or spinning yet another version. One reason why many farangs no longer believe anything Thaksin says. It is all too open to reversal a day later.

Another good example is the promise, that all the upheaval will cease immediately he gets what he wants, while his followers are assured that this is a fight to the death, for justice and democracy. Pure B.S. throughout.

[justanothercybertosser]

Blocking the govt from working is actually illegal, if reds continue to do so they lose all their high moral ground and rules will change overnight.

Really?

It would have been nice if the PAD and their supporters would have held those views 9 months ago. Or do different rules apply to PAD?

[Journalist]

Without Abhisit around some hot heads might prevail and reds might get more than they bargain for.

I doubt chinless wonder Abhisit is calling many of the shots anyway in circumstances like this.

He should be okay going off on the cocktail and dinner party Euro-circuit - as he does every fortnight, donning his Hermes tie and telling the world at large what a 'abtholutely thpiffing democrathy' Thailand has and how nobody back home has any complaints or gripes.

He can leave the hard boys in Bangkok to deal with the reds.

[h90]

There are simply no reasons to hold the elections.

Neither the govt nor parliament work is paralised. A couple of thousands of protesters holding the gates in the daytime is not a reason.

Granted, last week I thought the protest would wind down by Monday, obviously they managed to carry it on, with fresh reenforcements arriving from up country. Today the nationwide (Isan and North only) rallies were called off, however, and Abhisit is gone for a week.

So far the govt dismissed the protests but that might change. Blocking the govt from working is actually illegal, if reds continue to do so they lose all their high moral ground and rules will change overnight.

They can't demand prosecution for PAD and do exactly the same things themselves, and police actions against them would be legal and justified. They can scream "but PAD got away with it" all they want - let them live through Oct 7 mayhem first, then they re-evaluate what "get away" really means.

The police will try to clear the gates without applying undue force and if reds are seen as provoking violence, they won't get any sympathy from the general public, and Thaksin will have to step up and lead the troops. He needs those extra treason charges, apparently.

PAD, in the meantime, is getting vocal about allowing Thaksin to freely attack coutnry's institutions, they have a point about national security and Thaksin led insurrection. Some Dems are also fed up with it, and Suthep is not the one to stand down in a fight. Without Abhisit around some hot heads might prevail and reds might get more than they bargain for.

I think not long time and they disappear or just a few hundred people blocking a lot of gates, which can be arrested by the police, charged with 500-1000 Baht and released.

[h90]

Without Abhisit around some hot heads might prevail and reds might get more than they bargain for.

I doubt chinless wonder Abhisit is calling many of the shots anyway in circumstances like this.

He should be okay going off on the cocktail and dinner party Euro-circuit - as he does every fortnight, donning his Hermes tie and telling the world at large what a 'abtholutely thpiffing democrathy' Thailand has and how nobody back home has any complaints or gripes.

He can leave the hard boys in Bangkok to deal with the reds.

Or not dealing with them, just don't doing anything, the absolute longest, they may stay is Sonkran....

[Sao Jiang Mai]

What a silly post. The state of the world econom is also rather important right now.

[mdechgan]

The protest will only last as long as the money. Compared to the PAD the DAAD does not have that many supporters. They may have the people but not the capital. Example: 100 motorcycle taxis blocking uthong.

Some people love Thaksin for his money, but more hate him for non-financial reasons more than the people that follow him. Southerners really hate him. They said look at Abhisit, he gives 2,000 baht to everyone regardless of north, south, east west, central while Thaksin only cared about his Northerners and Isaan. Bangkokians hate him also because look a the Taksin extension. Apirak wanted it for the Bkk metropolis but Mr. T denied funding for it because he wanted to piss off the city because they supported the Democrat Party.

Thaksin is really out of his mind right now and he shows it. First he wants to defend himself, then he asks for a pardon, now he wants to organize a mass rally, then what? Incite a civil war?

This was like when China took Tibet or when Napoleon took over France as a republic. The peasants were happy because they gained some land which was taken from the aristocracy. But seriously this isn't like robin hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor, its more like a mob boss paying his henchmen.

Edited March 31, 2009 by mdechgan

[sriracha john]

Thaksin also affirmed that if a gunshot was heard or people injured, he would lead the people to fight

Thaksin is really out of his mind right now and he shows it. First he wants to defend himself, then he asks for a pardon, now he wants to organize a mass rally, then what? Incite a civil war?

Yes; based on the above quote, it would appear so.

[sriracha john]

From our Bound To Happen News Department comes....

[sriracha john]

Prem's supporters gather in Songkhla

Thousands of people gathered in General Prem Tinsulanonda's home province of Songkhla on Tuesday in a show of support for the Privy Council President after fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra claimed he was behind the Sept 2006 military coup that toppled him from power.

They demonstrators, members of the Love Pa Prem group, came from 16 districts of the province.

Members took turns in attacking the core leaders of the anti-government red-shirts, especially Veera Musikhapong, for being ungrateful to General Prem.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...her-in-songkhla

[mdechgan]

Thaksin is really out of his mind right now and he shows it. First he wants to defend himself, then he asks for a pardon, now he wants to organize a mass rally, then what? Incite a civil war?

Yes; based on the above quote, it would appear so.

The question really intrigues me. Is a civil war possible? Lets say there is where would the lines be drawn? South and Isaan are clear, some parts of the North but what about central? How would the military be divided? Would the Prachuap air force bomb the Korat air base? It is really interesting. Economically the Isaan doesn't stand a chance for a prolonged war unless they received aid from Burma, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. But if these countries sided with the Isaan it would be even more intriguing.

[sriracha john]

Provincial Red Shirts Give up Gatherings

The Red-shirt group leader has ordered red-shirt members in provinces outside Bangkok to stop all protests. They decided that they will gather again if the authorities break up the gathering in front of the Government House.

Red-shirt group leader Natthawut Saikuea has publicly ordered red-shirt members in provinces outside Bangkok to stop all protests.

He also declared that it is the third step to winning, because the red-shirt group was able to stop the Cabinet meeting. The Chiang Mai red-shirt group in front of the Chiang Mai City Hall dispersed at 10am. They ended the gathering due to the order by the red-shirt group leader.

The leader of Love Chiangmai Group 51 asked the Chiang Mai red-shirt group to go home and wait for a signal from Bangkok. If the authorities force the red-shirt rally to stop, they will gather again.

However, today at 4pm., the Chiang Mai red-shirt group will assail the government at Grand Waroros Hotel, which is the Love Chiangmai Group 51 station.

- TOC / 2009-03-31

Edited March 31, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

Blocking the govt from working is actually illegal, if reds continue to do so they lose all their high moral ground and rules will change overnight.

Really?

It would have been nice if the PAD and their supporters would have held those views 9 months ago. Or do different rules apply to PAD?

Same rules, different game.

So far reds are not prepared to play the same game as PAD, if they want confrontation with the police it won't fly with the general public, and without general public support they won't accomplish anything.

Their leaders are trying to fake a mass uprising by copying PAD. They think that all they need for a revolution is colored shirts and a TV station, and people are idiots, they can be fooled into believing their cause. They can't fool all the people all the time, and at the moment their credibility is at the lowest, and they are not making any friends by threatening a full blown insurrection.