Should I Buy Toyota Vios Or Honda Jazz?

[Thaiboxer]

I have no test to post, but this is a visual example of the jazz in a head on.

As another poster said, the Jazz doesn't look to hold up well in frontal collisions and the front is one of the strongest parts of a vehicle. I noticed that many trucks now have aftermarket steel grills and bumpers fitted on them....looks like these folks are ready for war! I suppose you could give an offending driver a little nudge with one of those things!

[Harmonica]

>>>>> I'd be interested to hear from people of expertise (I'm certainly not), but personally I'd have thought you needed some kind of "crush zone" for head on collisions i.e. to take the energy out of the impact. You wouldn't want a completely solid structure to transfer all the energy of the crash toward the occupants of the car. <<<<<<<

Yes Charles, agree with the "crush zone" and "energy of the crash ..." -- but the way it was explained to me, it did appear that this "structural" bar possessed these attributes.

Like to hear from people of expertise -- me too. I have tried a couple people at Honda and thus far, no satisfactory explanation, only vague answers.

[tuky]

I noticed that many trucks now have aftermarket steel grills and bumpers fitted on them....looks like these folks are ready for war! I suppose you could give an offending driver a little nudge with one of those things!

You should visit Australia mate, there you will find "bunny bars" on minis, "kangaroo bars" on family sedans and offroaders and finally "Bull bars" on bigger trucks. But of course in the lucky country they are really needed (too many pedestrians ).

[Harmonica]

Thanks for that Rav; makes sense to me. I have mentioned this to her and she then read (with a little help) your post. She is going thru' this thread with great interest -- no doubt I'll get questions about some of the structural strength you've outlined and esp. if it exists in the Vios.

someone wrote, yesterday I believe, that he does not want to influence his TG's decision because it could backfire a couple months later when she then says, "it was your idea, not mine; I didn't get what I really wanted"

Ditto.

[Harmonica]

Hyundai Coupe

That is a slick looking car, Rav and from the looks of it, I don't think I've seen one here -- or if I did, I might have confused it for another. Could be over 1 million Baht -- maybe other readers here will let us know if it is sold in LOS and whether there are many dealer/service stores around LOS.

[sabaijai]

The Hyundai Coupe looks very cool but isn't comparable to the Vios or Jazz, both of which have 4 doors. When I was shopping for a second car for around town about a year ago, I looked at all sorts of makes and models, including sporty two-door models like the Coupe. My other machine is a 4WD Ford Ranger turbo diesel, great for running around the mountains of N Thailand, not so much fun to drive in Chiang Mai traffic, or to park in any city.

We wanted something as small as possible, but because we occasionally go out with friends, we decided a 4-dr model was essential. In the end we took the Jazz because the driving position felt roomier than in the Vios, plus we both just thought it looked, well, jazzier. Got the midnight blue one. As my wife says, 'The Vios looks too conservative, like an office-girl car."

The Jazz comes in several models. Because of that rather short crush zone as mentioned in this thread, I bought the model that comes with dual airbags. With the dual airbags and generally lower driving speeds in town, I figure it's safe enough as a town car. Also opted for auto transmission, since it makes riding around in stop-and-go traffic so much easier.

I enjoy driving the Jazz myself. It does have a sportier feel than the Vios, which again is a Honda hallmark. Haven't had any problems. I'm sure the Vios is a fine little auto, too.

For highway or rural driving I'll always take the diesel pickup, as it's obviously safer (also as dual airbags) and the Jazz can't handle rutted roads much at all.

[kreon]

I often take my friend's Jazz to go snooker. Actually I feel Jazz is not bad for a girl. But it is really too narrow for me. I prefer Toyota Vios. It looks better and comfortable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so you avatar must have been 30 years ago then

[kreon]

>>>>> I'd be interested to hear from people of expertise (I'm certainly not), but personally I'd have thought you needed some kind of "crush zone" for head on collisions i.e. to take the energy out of the impact. You wouldn't want a completely solid structure to transfer all the energy of the crash toward the occupants of the car. <<<<<<<

Yes Charles, agree with the "crush zone" and "energy of the crash ..." -- but the way it was explained to me, it did appear that this "structural" bar possessed these attributes. 

Like to hear from people of expertise -- me too.  I have tried a couple people at Honda and thus far, no satisfactory explanation, only vague answers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about a nice mercedes benz c190, cute car for the missus

[bkk_mike]

what about a nice mercedes benz c190, cute car for the missus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a nice car, we've got one. But you can buy both Vios and Jazz a few times over for the price of the Merc in Thailand.

[taxexile]

THE HONDA JAZZ

What's Good

The first giant step forward in small car design since the original 1959 Mini. Entirely new one box model on sale in Japan from June 2001. Already Japan's best seller by December 2001. Replaced the lacklustre Logo and arrived in the UK early in 2002, providing stiff competition for the new Ford Fiesta, new VW Polo, new SEAT Ibiza, Skoda Fabia, Citroen C3, new Nissan Micra, Renault Clio, Vauxhall Corsa, Toyota Yaris and Daihatsu YRV. Features new chain-cam 1,339cc 8 valve 1-DSI engine technology. (Dual and Sequential Ignition System comprises two spark plugs per cylinder in a compact combustion chamber where sequential ignition results in low CO2 emissions and excellent fuel economy.) Dimensions are: length 3,830mm (12 ft 7in: 3in shorter than the new Fiesta); width 1,675mm (5 ft 6in) {1,878mm mirror tip to mirror tip); height: 1,525mm (5ft 0in). Despite its compact dimensions, the one boc cab forward design make it look quite big. Luggage volume is 353 litres to the parcel shelf with the rear seats up (more than the Fiesta) and a huge 1,323 litres with the seats down. The chain cam engine puts out 61kW (82bhp) at 5,700rpm and 119Nm (88 lb ft) torque at a low 2,800 rpm. Combined economy is 49.6mpg and CO2 output 134g/km, well within the £100 a year VED grade. The engine is optimised for ordinary 95Ron Premium unleaded petrol. Insurance is a low Group 3E. Mounting the fuel tank in the centre of the car and using a new H-shaped torsion beam rear axle allows for an unusually low cabin floor. The short nose also allows more interior space which is equivalent to many C sector sized cars. Honda expects the car to achieve a four star NCAP crash safety rating. The 2/3 + 1/3 split rear seats can each be fully folded into the floor with headrests in place, providing a completely flat loadspace 1,740mm (5ft 9in) long. And by sliding the front passenger seat fully forward, then completely reclining it, objects as long as 2,400mm (7ft 10in) will fit. The versatile rear seat squabs can also be tipped up and locked against the seat backs creating a central luggage area ideal for a dog to be carried. The height of this area from floor to ceiling is 1,280mm (4ft 2"), enough for small children to stand up and change clothes after an afternoon on the beach. Prices: £8,995. £10,295 and £11,295. Order yours early for March 02 reg. CVT-7 from August 2002 at £900 extra has seven steering wheel paddle shift selectable ratios. See full road test of manual Jazz on this website. Much liked by readers who have bought one. Now also available with a well-integrated body colour side-protection strip. Voted Auto Express 2002 Car of the Year. Available from July 2002 in wider choice of colours including Iris Red (pink); Orchid Yellow, Clover Green, Ice Blue metallic and Nighthawk Black pearl. Revised suspension and CD players from March 2003. Revised 2003 models with better suspension arrived March 2003 but only with CVT-7 transmission. Revised suspension manuals delayed until May 2003. 100% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. Exemplary fewest breakdowns, problems and faults making it a 'Best Buy' in 2003 Which survey. Top individual model in 2004 J.D. Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. 110PS 1.5 VTEC version in Japan and Australia, and also Thailand and Malaysia from Spring 2004. Comes with CVT-7 as standard. Upgrade from Spring 2004. All now fitted with four wheel disc brakes, ABS, handy seat folding lever and two sets of alarm remotes. 4 Star NCAP occupant safety rating and 3 Stars for pedestrian safety. 99% of Cars up to 2 years old breakdown-free over previous 12 months in 2004 Which? survey. Which? Best Buy 2004. Which? used best buy £5,000 - £10,000 2004.

Facelifted inside and out for 2005 (on sale 6-10-2004) with option of new 1,247cc entry engine and more colours. Revised range comprises 1.2 S, 1.4 SE and 1.4 Sport grades (replacing the current 1.4 S / SE / SE Sport line up), with the entry price point starting at £8,600. With a 1246 cc petrol engine serving up 78 PS, the 1.2 offers thrust very similar to the larger i-DSi unit: 0-60 mph in 13.4 sec and top speed 106 mph. Also offers fuel economy of 51.4 mpg in the EU combined test, with CO2 emissions very low for a petrol engine at 129 g/km. The 1.2 model also benefits from redesigned front and rear bumpers plus metallic garnish for the fascia controls. Bigger changes for the SE and Sport grades which feature new headlamp and rear light cluster designs, door mirror-mounted LED indicators and new style 15 in alloy wheels (previously the SE had 14 in steel rims). Inside, the SE and Sport models have new textured seat fabric, self-illuminating instrument dials similar to the Accord, and a new sporty steering wheel. Also a new stereo system with steering wheel mounted remote controls, outside temperature gauge, chrome handbrake button and, on CVT models, steering wheel mounted paddles in place of buttons (left paddle used to change down, right to change up). 1.4 Sport now has its own look with sport front grille, unique alloy wheels, stylish body kit plus front foglights, automatic climate control air conditioning and digital display as well as black interior trim. Four new colours are introduced to the Jazz range for the 2005 YM, including Sirius Blue, Macha Crame (green) and Venus Orange metallics, plus Helios Yellow pearlescent. RECOMMENDED.

Original road test at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=34

Updated road tests manual and CVT-7 at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=60

More at www.honda.co.uk

What's Bad

Steering a bit sticky and dead in the straight-ahead position. Though Jazz handling and grip is good, the new Fiesta, Polo and Yaris are all a bit better in these respects, which may be the reason for the revised suspension from March 2003. 50 softer damper dealer kits briefly available for pre-suspension fix manuals, but made car too wallowy so were withdrawn. 2003 suspension mods cannot be retro fitted as they involve revised body pick-up

[taxexile]

Want to change your car? Avoid costly mistakes by checking out what’s good, what’s bad, what to watch out for and recalls for more than 750 models new and used. Simply select the Make and Model, and this vital information, constantly updated, is yours.

Soluna Vios (from 2003 - Thai market)

What's Good

Cute and modern Thai market 4-door saloon, based on Yaris but bigger and competing head on with new Honda City saloon. Has chain cam 1,496cc VVT-i 16v engine developing 109PS at 6,000rpm. Size 4,285mm x 1,695mm x 1,435mm. 'Tunnel vision' digital instrument display in angled pod in centre of dash. Prices: 1.5J 505,000 baht; 1.5J auto 540,000 baht; 1.5E 560,000 baht; 1.5E auto 595,000 baht; 1.5E auto Ivory 600,000 baht; 1.5E (airbag + ABS) 595,000 baht; 1.5E auto 595,000 baht; 1.5E (airbag + ABS) auto 625,000 baht; 1.5E Ivory (airbag + ABS) 630,000 baht; 1.5S auto 659,000 baht; 1.5S auto Ivory 679,000 baht; 1.5S auto Sporty 686,000 baht. Metallic or Mica paint and a/c standard across the range. 1.5S comes with alloys, CD, ABS, front fogs and airbag. Sporty has front airdam, side skirts and low spoiler. 'Ivory' special ivory leather interior. Vios is Thai Car of the Year 2003. Very good to drive, with nice combination of ride, handling and steering. Nicely built, too. At 70 baht/£ prices translate to £7,214 - £9,800, supply is good and small discounts + accessory packs are available. In Jan 2004 ten dealer fit extras included a gearshift lock and extra rustproofing. Insurance for a 21 year old 18,000 baht. 143PS Turbo from March 2004.

Road terst at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=121

More at www.solunavios.com

What's Bad

No heater and not destined for UK. Minor alarm/interior light-fader faults can flatten battery.

What to Watch Out For

Too soon to say.

Recalls

Minor recall of Vios built between April 2003 and March 2004 because they may not have enough lubrication to allow their front seats to recline.

[taxexile]

hyundai coupe.

What's Good

If the Lantra is 'the curvy car', then this is 'the swoopy coupe'. The first incarnation was good looking and a lot of coupe for the money. 14' 3" long by 5' 8" wide and around 1,200kg. 112 bhp 1.6 the entry level at a reasonable £14,000. 137 bhp 2.0 litre a more serious car with standard alloys. Aircon optional on 1.6 and 2.0i; standard on 2.0iSE which also comes with leather seats. FI has big alloys and low-profile tyres. Will impress those who don't know what it is and is not a bad car in its own right. 130 mph plus. Handles nicely. Sells very well. Re-styled Y2k model has better sound-proofing and re-tuned, pleasant-sounding exhaust. Priced from £12,999 for the 1.6i. 19th from top of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. Hyundais generally had below average warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 78.85 v/s lowest 31.93). 27th from top car out of 137 in 2003 Top Gear survey. Hyundai 3rd top top of Reliability Index for 2004 combining low average cost of repair of £315.78 with low 22.35 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk

What's Bad

OTT launch advertising campaign compared the look of it to a Ferrari. Will not confer quite the same status on driver as a 3-Series, a Corrado, a Celica or even a Prelude. Year 2000 front-end restyle is not to everyone's taste.

What to Watch Out For

Cars that are flash for not much cash can be prime candidates for the repo man, so used examples may be without service books and some of the keys, and definitely warrant an HPI check. Still young enough to want to see full dealer service history.

[taxexile]

any chance of a section for petrolheads here on thaivisa.

[Harmonica]

>>>>> I'd be interested to hear from people of expertise (I'm certainly not), but personally I'd have thought you needed some kind of "crush zone" for head on collisions i.e. to take the energy out of the impact. You wouldn't want a completely solid structure to transfer all the energy of the crash toward the occupants of the car. <<<<<<<

Yes Charles, agree with the "crush zone" and "energy of the crash ..." -- but the way it was explained to me, it did appear that this "structural" bar possessed these attributes. 

Like to hear from people of expertise -- me too.  I have tried a couple people at Honda and thus far, no satisfactory explanation, only vague answers.

what about a nice mercedes benz c190, cute car for the missus

c190 is cute no doubt, but can't afford it at the moment, kreon -- budget @ 750,000 tops -- and don't want to buy on monthly terms either.

[sendbaht]

'c190 is cute no doubt, but can't afford it at the moment, kreon -- budget @ 750,000 tops -- and don't want to buy on monthly terms either.'

Yes pay cash, payments are the worst.

Asked my wife what car she would like when we are in Thailand.... she wants something where she can see over other cars...looks like some kind of a SUV or truck.

We will have only one car in the family, ( i will ride a motorbke) so might spend more on it they if we were going to own two.

[Harmonica]

Sabaijai,

Before you purchased your Jazz had you given any thought to the "expensive replacement parts" and "lower resale value" ?

Thanks

[Harmonica]

Thanks Tax, tough reading but good info

[taxexile]

tough reading but good info

not half as tough as some of your stuff.

[Harmonica]

tough reading but good info

not half as tough as some of your stuff.

Ouch!

[sabaijai]

Sabaijai,

Before you purchased your Jazz had you given any thought to the "expensive replacement parts" and "lower resale value" ?

Thanks

Matter of fact I did. Parts for the Jazz cost about the same as for a Vios, perhaps marginally more expensive in some cases, overall not much difference, certainly not enough to affect my decision.

For resale I checked www.taladrod.com and the Jazz is holding its value very well for as long as they've been out. Since the Jazz is one of the hottest selling sedans in Thailand at the moment (I'm sure it fluctuates month to month), it looks to me like resale will be quite good for the immeidate future. Long term, no one knows.

So what's it gonna be, Harmonica?

[Harmonica]

Thanks for that, sabaijai -- she has still not test-driven either car, but I think its as close as possible to 100% that its going to be the Toyota Vios.

I thought we'd have it all done this week, but the house hunting is taking up all the time -- she has driven the Corolla, Altis and older Soluna before (as rental cars) -- but never driven a Jazz -- that ONE test-drive is holding things up; and it could very well turn things around.

Soon.

[kwiz117]

how about a mazda3, honada civic 2.0, those are good car too 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the latest BMW Mini ..

It gives a very good impression when a guy drives it.. you know what I mean.. right.?

Smaller the car.. bigger it is..

Bigger the car.. smaller it is..

You have said that you drive a Toyota VIGO.. that's a big car!!!

[doctormann]

Really you should compare the Toyota Vios with the Honda City, not the Jazz. Both Vios and City are small saloon / sedan cars whereas the Jazz is a hatchback but otherwise mechanically identical. Both cars offer much the same specification and performance and the price is similar.

Interestingly, you can only get ABS on the Jazz if you buy an auto but this is available on the City in both manual and auto versions. Whether or not you get air bags on the Honda depends on which spec. level you choose and I expect that the same applies to the Toyota.

I am probably biased, having just bought a City auto, but, so far, it's proving to be an excellent car and is very sporty to drive. Not only that but the GF thinks that it is 'suay'. Can't comment on reliability at this stage but I can say that, back in UK, both Toyata and Honda are at the top of the reliability league. If spare parts are a bit expensive it doesn't matter too much when you don't need many of them. This cannot be said of some other makes (I can think of at least two marques that are popular in the UK where the spares are cheap but the reliability is cr*p and you need to pay out frequently).

If you are worried about crumple zones, or lack of them, be assured that the Jazz meets stringent UK requirements on safety and is a class leader for small cars. The City is not available in UK but its front end is the same as the Jazz. The mechanical construction of the cars built in Thailand is identical to those built for the UK - only minor details like heater / air-con are different.

Alternatively, buy a Volvo tank. In this case, the crumple zones are on other peoples' cars!

Someone suggested buying a new Mini. Is this really a serious suggestion because this is a highly impractical car? Undoubtedly fun to drive but expensive to buy and maintain and has storage space for a small handbag. Don't bother taking it shopping unless the rear seats are not being used!

DM

[kwiz117]

Someone suggested buying a new Mini.  Is this really a serious suggestion because this is a highly impractical car?  Undoubtedly fun to drive but expensive to buy and maintain and has storage space for a small handbag.  Don't bother taking it shopping unless the rear seats are not being used! 

DM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems like you didn't get it.

Smaller the car.. bigger it is..

Bigger the car.. smaller it is..

That's how women understand about cars...

Therefore, even if you get a big car with rear seats you will not get the luck to use it..

[taxexile]

story on itv news today about a woman who recently bought a new honda crv from a dealer , had it for about a month and the thing was nothing but trouble , wouldn't start , problems with this and that. took it back to the honda dealer many times but they couldnt or wouldnt fix it.

eventually she demanded a replacement but the dealer laughed at her and told her that as a customer/consumer she had absolutely no rights and that he ,as a supplier could do what he wanted.

she took the car and parked it outside the itv studios and smashed it up with a hammer whilst they filmed.

if you buy a honda..... check the small print on the guarantee.

[doctormann]

Someone suggested buying a new Mini.  Is this really a serious suggestion because this is a highly impractical car?  Undoubtedly fun to drive but expensive to buy and maintain and has storage space for a small handbag.  Don't bother taking it shopping unless the rear seats are not being used!  

DM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems like you didn't get it.

Smaller the car.. bigger it is..

Bigger the car.. smaller it is..

That's how women understand about cars...

Therefore, even if you get a big car with rear seats you will not get the luck to use it..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I got the point all right but I am trying to offer some serious advice here. This is a problem of form over function. Just because something has 'style' doesn't mean that it's useful. If you want pose value then buy a mini, and the ladies can put whatever intrpretation they like on its, and your size. If, on the other hand, you want a practical vehicle, don't. In fact, just go and buy a truck!

[Harmonica]

story on itv news today about a woman who recently bought a new honda crv from a dealer , had it for about a month and the thing was nothing but trouble , wouldn't start , problems with this and that. took it back to the honda dealer many times but they couldnt or wouldnt fix it.

eventually she demanded a replacement but the dealer laughed at her and told her that as a customer/consumer she had absolutely no rights and that he ,as a supplier could do what he wanted.

she took the car and parked it outside the itv studios and smashed it up with a hammer whilst they filmed.

if you buy a honda..... check the small print on the guarantee.

OK then guys, I can now give you a definite word -- "Mai dtong-gahn lawng-doo Jazz", she said (or therabouts)!

Even when I was looking into other pickup trucks , she always had just one thing to say -- buy Toyota.

The sexy look of the Jazz along with the way its being advertized and the fact that so many boys and girls her age are driving it, had thrown her off her firm Toyota stance.

This story closes our book on the choice. Many thanks to Tax -- Its a done deal!

Much obliged to everybody who contributed -- what a way to learn about something one is interested in!! Very grateful

[doctormann]

story on itv news today about a woman who recently bought a new honda crv from a dealer , had it for about a month and the thing was nothing but trouble , wouldn't start , problems with this and that. took it back to the honda dealer many times but they couldnt or wouldnt fix it.

eventually she demanded a replacement but the dealer laughed at her and told her that as a customer/consumer she had absolutely no rights and that he ,as a supplier could do what he wanted.

she took the car and parked it outside the itv studios and smashed it up with a hammer whilst they filmed.

if you buy a honda..... check the small print on the guarantee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are presumably talking about Independent TV News in the UK, right? In this case we can assume that this was a Honda built for the UK market. As I said in my earlier post, the reputation od Honda in the UK is extremely good. I don't believe for a minute that Honda got this reputation by dealing with its customers in such a cavalier manner as this news report suggests. Methinks that there is something fishy here. For a start, if she had had the car for only one month, under UK law she could have rejected it and demanded a full refund of her money.

As far as the Honda guarantee is concerned, I doubt that it differs markedly from that given by most other manufacturers - in fact it's possibly a bit better than most.

[bkk_mike]

story on itv news today about a woman who recently bought a new honda crv from a dealer , had it for about a month and the thing was nothing but trouble , wouldn't start , problems with this and that. took it back to the honda dealer many times but they couldnt or wouldnt fix it.

eventually she demanded a replacement but the dealer laughed at her and told her that as a customer/consumer she had absolutely no rights and that he ,as a supplier could do what he wanted.

she took the car and parked it outside the itv studios and smashed it up with a hammer whilst they filmed.

if you buy a honda..... check the small print on the guarantee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are presumably talking about Independent TV News in the UK, right? In this case we can assume that this was a Honda built for the UK market. As I said in my earlier post, the reputation od Honda in the UK is extremely good. I don't believe for a minute that Honda got this reputation by dealing with its customers in such a cavalier manner as this news report suggests. Methinks that there is something fishy here. For a start, if she had had the car for only one month, under UK law she could have rejected it and demanded a full refund of her money.

As far as the Honda guarantee is concerned, I doubt that it differs markedly from that given by most other manufacturers - in fact it's possibly a bit better than most.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually - I assume he's talking about ITV Thailand...

Edited January 27, 2005 by bkk_mike

[taxexile]

You are presumably talking about Independent TV News in the UK, right?

no

itv news bangkok.

she must have taken delivery of a rogue car , because, as you say, hondas' reliability is supposed to be as good as toyotas'. the dealer should really have changed it. consumer rights here in thailand are almost non-existent , she might have had better luck with honda itself rather than a dealership.