Ancient Airliners

[cdnvic]

I'm an admitted plane geek. Sometime after accepting I was never gonna fly CF-18s I got into commercial jets. The oldest I can remember being on was an Air Canada DC-8 in the 70s. Back then I could still look up and see the odd Viscount or Super Connie frieghter coming into land at Winnipeg International.

I have some regrets at not travelling to someof the lesser airfaring nations to fly on some of the classics still in service in the late 80s to mid 90s, like the Caravelle, VC-10, Convair 990s, etc. Something about hearing every little noise the aircraft's componants make appeals to the motorhead in me.

Now to you who have flown these loud, smoky jets of the past, was it a different experience than I imagine, or is it just romance, nostalga and regret over missed opportunities getting to me?

Appreciate your comments

cv

[Thaddeus]

DeHavilland Comet.... can't remember the model number and too lazy to do a google .... it was a propeller job and a School trip in 1974 .... never been more than 30" off the ground before this experience ..... a couple of years later my Mum had a jaunt on Concorde ... amazing how things changed in a relatively short space of time

[Mr Red]

Made a couple trips from US to Southeast Asia (LOS and Vietnam) on chartered stretch DC-8s. They would shoehorn in around 400 GIs and away you would go. I recall landing once on Wake Island where you could stand on the one story terminal roof and see the whole island. After refueling and leg stretching, the stretch -8 got onto the main runway, then reversed engines and backed up as far as they could. Stood on the brakes with the engines at max, then let 'er rip. I remember most of us on board were trying to synchronize gripping our seats and lifting the plane into the air. Only way I knew we were in the air was when rocks and surf rolled past the windows -- never felt the normal bump when the gear leaves the ground!

I have flown in much older military aircraft, including the venerable B-52s and F-4s, and many hours in various C-130s, including the first production model built in 1952. When I was putting in hours on it, it was a side-firing gunship. My son still nags me on that since that same tail number is sitting in a local museum -- makes you feel real old to know you have literally hundreds of hours in a museum plane.

[lional6]

I had the misfortune to fly on a 1969 vintage Cathay Pacific L-1011 Tristar –1. It was 1981 the flight was from Manila to Hong Kong, the 747 that we were to use, had been hijacked. These planes were so underpowered that they correctly made the decision with a full load of 400 with a take off during a monsoon to leave the entire load of luggage on the ground to join us later.

[Mr Red]

When I was a kid about 7 or 8, I remember making a flight from my hometown to Denver, Colorado on a DC-7. It was my first flight and most of my time was spent with my nose pressed to the window. I remember large windows (compared to now) with substantial curtains, and I remember it taking a long time. Seems to me it shook worse than some of the C-130s I have flown on.

[cdnvic]

I rode a 1972 vintage Air Transat L-1011 from Vancouver to Gatwick. Every time this fuel sucking pig landed for refueling (Iqaluit, Manchester) there was a loud bang from the undercarrige. It also required about 90min to refuel.

Over the north pole I noticed water trickling in the window.. which shouldn't happen at 38000ft. When I pointed this out to the flight attendant she said "Hmmm.. that shouldn't be happening" and I never saw her again.

I learned years later that the loud bang was probably explosive bolts used to blast down the landing gear during a hydraulic failure, and that their replacement after every landing would explain the long "refueling" stops.

I was a bit skeptical that an airline could be so careless, but then again this same airline did accidently dump all the fuel out of an A-330 over the atlantic once, causing the engines to die and the pilots do a long glide to a postage stamp size island for an admittedly brilliant deadstick landing.

I won't fly them anymore... their service is worse than their maintenence.

cv

Edited January 23, 2005 by cdnvic

[VTR1000]

DeHavilland Comet.... can't remember the model number and too lazy to do a google .... it was a propeller job and a School trip in 1974 .... never been more than 30" off the ground before this experience ..... a couple of years later my Mum had a jaunt on Concorde ... amazing how things changed in a relatively short space of time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh? You must have been on a diiferent kind of DeHavilland Comet tham me then. It was the first JET engined plane I went on. It belonged to BOAC and the flight was from if I remember correctly, London Heathrow to Chileka Airport, Blantyre, Malawi in the mid 60's. This route then started using VC-10's after the Comets were taken out of service.

[lional6]

Ok once upon a time (late 70’s) 3 young men were on a holiday in south East Asia. I was young and green as grass, the other 2 older and worked for Qantas and was experienced flyers. We were doing an island hop and I was a white-knuckle flyer then. Before we got on the plane I had a few drinks, as it was a short flight. The other 2 tricked me into sitting at the window seat, just rear of the wing as we approached the small island to land my friend Leans over I says “shiet what’s that noise” I look out the window to see the rear half of the wing fly up quickly. I jump up and yell “fukc the wing fell off”, there was women screaming, kids crying as the other passengers panicked. Well the short of long story I was arrested and spent the night in the local nick until I convinced them I meant no harm.

[cdnvic]

Ok once upon a time (late 70’s) 3 young men were on a holiday in south East Asia. I was young and green as grass, the other 2 older and worked for Qantas and was experienced flyers. We were doing an island hop and I was a white-knuckle flyer then. Before we got on the plane I had a few drinks, as it was a short flight. The other 2 tricked me into sitting at the window seat, just rear of the wing as we approached the small island to land my friend Leans over I says “shiet what’s that noise” I look out the window to see the rear half of the wing fly up quickly. I jump up and yell “fukc the wing fell off”, there was women screaming, kids crying as the other passengers panicked. Well the short of long story I was arrested and spent the night in the local nick until I convinced them I meant no harm.

That's a great one!

cv

[Thaddeus]

DeHavilland Comet.... can't remember the model number and too lazy to do a google .... it was a propeller job and a School trip in 1974 .... never been more than 30" off the ground before this experience ..... a couple of years later my Mum had a jaunt on Concorde ... amazing how things changed in a relatively short space of time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh? You must have been on a diiferent kind of DeHavilland Comet tham me then. It was the first JET engined plane I went on. It belonged to BOAC and the flight was from if I remember correctly, London Heathrow to Chileka Airport, Blantyre, Malawi in the mid 60's. This route then started using VC-10's after the Comets were taken out of service.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely right VTR.... it was over 30 years ago and I'm going senile Ok .... Jeeez give a chap a break

[chuchok]

What about the old fokker freiendship.As in "There goes another fokker.."

[Khutan]

I went to London, on (I think) a Super connie in about 1967.

It took about a week, I had tinitus for nearly a month. I was told I behaved very well for the forst 2 days.

We were off-loaded each night and put into hotels.

AsI was only 4 years old, I don't remember too much, I don't know if it was a "Regular Service" or a "Package"

Also remember having the daylights frightened out of me when the trip got "Bumpy".

The good old days - no

Give me BA0010 up the front for 23 hours and a hot shower in a London hotel any time.

Matt

[corkscrew]

I'm an admitted plane geek. Sometime after accepting I was never gonna fly CF-18s I got into commercial jets. The oldest I can remember being on was an Air Canada DC-8 in the 70s. Back then I could still look up and see the odd Viscount or Super Connie frieghter coming into land at Winnipeg International.

I have some regrets at not travelling to someof the lesser airfaring nations to fly on some of the classics still in service in the late 80s to mid 90s, like the Caravelle, VC-10, Convair 990s, etc. Something about hearing every little noise the aircraft's componants make appeals to the motorhead in me.

Now to you who have flown these loud, smoky jets of the past, was it a different experience than I imagine, or is it just romance, nostalga and regret over missed opportunities getting to me?

Appreciate your comments

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember flying around the former USSR in Tupolevs. The seating was terribly tight...and the meal was always Chicken Aeroflot (dry and overcooked...and no alcohol). Aeroflot sold many of its old Tupolevs to Vietnam....on one memorable flight from Saigon to Hanoi I watched rivets dancing down the aisle.

[cdnvic]

I remember flying around the former USSR in Tupolevs. The seating was terribly tight...and the meal was always Chicken Aeroflot (dry and overcooked...and no alcohol). Aeroflot sold many of its old Tupolevs to Vietnam....on one memorable flight from Saigon to Hanoi I watched rivets dancing down the aisle.

You can still get alot of TU-154 and IL-62 flights out of Seoul/Inchon.

I gotta try one before they all go boom.

cv

[ProfessorFart]

We flew in a Tupolev from BKK to Phnom Penh (with Royal Phniom Penh Airlines) in 2002!!! Big portholes for windows, wobbly seats and steam in the cabin just before Landing. There were a total of five people on the flight!! Not my best flying experience!!

[lopburi3]

Flew the Pacific several times in Super Connies and have had a number of Fokker F7 trips but the dusting off of a Boeing 307 about 30 years ago by Royal Air Lao and using it for the Vientiane/Bangkok run after they could not keep payments up for the rented Electra convinced me, after one flight, to use the railway system.

In PRC it was an old rattletrap and they used the tail number for flight number so if your plane was delayed you did not fly until it was repaired. They also cancelled any flight if there were enough hotel rooms available to take the pax (no guess on who paid) and sent you on your way the next morning having fulfilled their hotel room occupancy quota.

[Rinrada]

In thr 60s as an air cadet (fo kite... )I was fortunate to do about 20 hours in the old chippi-Chipmunk out of Turnhouse.

Following on in later years we got a lot of AEF=Air experience flying in Varsitys-Valletas-Beverleys-Shacks-C130s (new modern -Big)DC4s and even the old Avro Anson but one time a way back in never never land we were taken up for a round trip at Scampton (old 617...da-da-da-dadad.da-ada) in a Vulcan which was part of the v bomber setup....def sanuk.

However even later again best of all is /was /will always be the old lady herself................CONCORDE.....so sad but its gone

[Steve2UK]

In thr 60s as an air cadet (fo kite... )I was fortunate to do about 20 hours in the old chippi-Chipmunk out of Turnhouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Late 60's and I'm a whey-faced air cadet. Great Saturday of flying in a Chipmunk out of Manston over the English Channel. "Hey" says the pilot "see that tanker down there? Want to take a closer look?" "Sure" I say - and we drop down in a Stuka dive and buzz the ship. Come Sunday and I'm at home watching the evening news. Pilot & air cadet crashed in the Channel that day and both dead. Pilot thought to have had a heart attack............ And, yes - it was the same pilot

Late 90's and I'm set to fly to Manila from Coron Island in a 6-seater - 6 seats + boxes of fish. Pilot is starting his taxi to take off. Agitated Pinoy comes running out of the control "hut" wildly waving a sheet of paper in one hand and a calculator in the other. Plane halts and pilot opens his door. Two passengers have to get off - because he's just worked out that we're overweight with the fish. Spent the rest of the flight wondering a] what would have been left of the fish - and us - after the plane had ploughed into the hill at the end of the runway and b] whether it's only in the Philippines that passengers get offloaded rather than fish..........

[Rinrada]

All goes to show and makes you wonder if and when your time is up...but its not really worth worrying about it ...is it .

Memories of a near thing reminds me of a couple of instances....

In the 1970s we used to fly up and down the Saudi East coast down into the Rub al Khali (empty quarter )in Folkers belonging to ARAMCo and I became convinced that the piles of sand at the end of the "runways----wot runways" were there to act as breaks and STOP the bloody planes.

On quite a number of occasions we ploughed straight into them but one time we went over the top and ended up sticking up in the air at almost 45 degrees but everyone just dusted down and climed out.

Took them a couple of hours to locate the wheels

Another time out of KL going back to the UK the engines went on fire (747)but no prob.and we ended up back in KL in a rather nice hotel opposite the Petrolonas .....mini bar took a pounding that night

"Escaped "from Nigeria in the 80s on an old-old Varig 707 to Rio and sure enough a couple of weeks later it went down in the the west africian jungle

Ditto while in Cambodia in 93 regulars trip from Phnom Penh up to Stung Treng in the old (choppers) Russian Mi17 and 26s and again sure enough day after I got there on one occasion the bugger went down.

At least the villagers made a couple of quid on the scraps.

Finally flying Iraqi Air on regular shuttle from Basra to Baghdad in 79.....will leave it for another time.

[Steve2UK]

All goes to show and makes you wonder if and when your time is up...but its not really worth worrying about it ...is it .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - "che sera, sera" (maybe someone will tell me the Thai equivalent)........

But, even my "sang froid" (sorry about all the languages) was strained on a Thai flight from KL coming into Don Muang in a serious storm with massive turbulence - the plane bucking wildly. Looking at the high-rise buildings we were passing on the approach, I could see that we were lurching up and down several floors at a time. Once would have been OK, but the pilot tried and aborted THREE times. Going round for the third attempt, I (for one) was wishing that he would then call it quits - which he did and we finally diverted to a Thai Air Force base in the Gulf. Have to admit, the knuckles were certainly white by then.........

[rickshaw92]

I did not start travelling until 93. I once took a flight fron Gilget to Islamabad on some ole klunker with propellers. Scary stuff, but thats PIA for ya I do remember the good old days when there was a smoking section in the back.

[khunlungphudhu]

I first arrived in Bangkok on a Hastings, returned to Singapore on a Beverly.

The Bev was carrying two choppers in the hold, and it was the monsoon season over the gulf and turned rather cold so the crew put the heating on, something that had not been done in many a year.

Within minutes the cabin was full of smoke and bums were biting seats as the rear doors and all hatches were opened and the plane lost altitude exceedingly quickly.

I have not worried about flying since!

[Rinrada]

Unfortunately there is the serious side

So sorry guys ..RIP

Ten feared dead in Hercules crash

Flags were flown at half-mast at RAF Lyneham

Nine RAF personnel and one soldier are missing, believed dead, after a British Hercules plane crashed in Iraq, Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon has said.

The first of the dead to be named was Australian airman Flt Lt Paul Pardoel, 35, of Victoria State. The Australian Department of Defence said the former member of the Royal Australian Air Force who had enlisted in the RAF was among the casualties.

The father-of-three, who had lived in the UK for three years, is thought to be the first Australian serving in Iraq to die.

A statement from RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire, where the Hercules was based, said the immediate families of those thought to have been involved in the crash had been contacted.

"They may need extra time to speak with their wider families, so therefore we are unable to release the names of those involved at this stage," it said.

Sir Jock Stirrup, the RAF's chief of air staff, said those names would be released at 1200GMT on Tuesday.

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told the Commons: "I know the House will join me in sending our deepest condolences and sympathy to the families of these brave men and to their comrades.

"Yesterday's elections in Iraq demonstrate the vital importance of what those and thousands of other brave British servicemen and women have been helping to achieve in Iraq," he said.

Shadow foreign secretary Michael Ancram also voiced his party's sorrow over the crash.

Wreckage from the C-130 plane, which is known for its reliability, was spread over a wide area, after crashing in fine conditions at 1725 local time (1425 GMT).

Tributes have been left at the plane's base in Wiltshire

It is thought the investigation into what caused the crash could prove difficult in the hostile territory.

The Hercules had been en route from Baghdad to Balad, which houses one of the largest US air bases in Iraq.

Well-wishers have been leaving flowers at the Wiltshire base since news of the crash broke on Sunday.

The MoD has a phone number for

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4221521.stm

[lampard10]

I'm an admitted plane geek.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am an Aircraft Engineer,in fact those of you who know the FC in Surin will remember all the pictures. I love everything about aircraft. Did you know that if you flew everyday for the next 40,000 years you would just tip the odds of being in an aircrash. And to the L1011 Tri-Star worrier. Each Tri-Star is supposed to carry it's own ghost,that warns the pilot if anything is wrong. Only an old wives tale..Rubbish.........I hear most of you saying. On three occasions now the skipper of a 1011 has witnessed a phenonomen that has saved his aircraft from crashing. Maybe some of you have seen one of the films made about it. Myself I am a Boeing 707 man. Finest Aircraft ever built. Built like a brick &lt;deleted&gt; house. I will never forget the film of the commercial test flight of the 707, in front of all the prospective buyers. As the Aircraft passed the stand housing all the reps it did a barrel roll and flew inverted before rolling back. That took some nerve. I could go on forever on this subject but that'll do for now. To aircraft lovers everywhere. Just remember it's safer to take a plane than get out of bed each morning.

[lional6]

I'm an admitted plane geek.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am an Aircraft Engineer,in fact those of you who know the FC in Surin will remember all the pictures. I love everything about aircraft. Did you know that if you flew everyday for the next 40,000 years you would just tip the odds of being in an aircrash. And to the L1011 Tri-Star worrier. Each Tri-Star is supposed to carry it's own ghost,that warns the pilot if anything is wrong. Only an old wives tale..Rubbish.........I hear most of you saying. On three occasions now the skipper of a 1011 has witnessed a phenonomen that has saved his aircraft from crashing. Maybe some of you have seen one of the films made about it. Myself I am a Boeing 707 man. Finest Aircraft ever built. Built like a brick &lt;deleted&gt; house. I will never forget the film of the commercial test flight of the 707, in front of all the prospective buyers. As the Aircraft passed the stand housing all the reps it did a barrel roll and flew inverted before rolling back. That took some nerve. I could go on forever on this subject but that'll do for now. To aircraft lovers everywhere. Just remember it's safer to take a plane than get out of bed each morning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was me lampard, never mind the co pilot "pee" I just want the 5 years back it took of my life during the flight .... oh the return of my fingernails from the armrest would be good also.

[cdnvic]

I'm an admitted plane geek.

cv

I am an Aircraft Engineer,in fact those of you who know the FC in Surin will remember all the pictures. I love everything about aircraft. Did you know that if you flew everyday for the next 40,000 years you would just tip the odds of being in an aircrash. And to the L1011 Tri-Star worrier. Each Tri-Star is supposed to carry it's own ghost,that warns the pilot if anything is wrong. Only an old wives tale..Rubbish.........I hear most of you saying. On three occasions now the skipper of a 1011 has witnessed a phenonomen that has saved his aircraft from crashing. Maybe some of you have seen one of the films made about it. Myself I am a Boeing 707 man. Finest Aircraft ever built. Built like a brick &lt;deleted&gt; house. I will never forget the film of the commercial test flight of the 707, in front of all the prospective buyers. As the Aircraft passed the stand housing all the reps it did a barrel roll and flew inverted before rolling back. That took some nerve. I could go on forever on this subject but that'll do for now. To aircraft lovers everywhere. Just remember it's safer to take a plane than get out of bed each morning.

The ghosts I hear came from parts salvaged from an L-1011 crash in the Florida everglades in 1972.

I hear ya on the 707, however if only for the novelty factor I prefer the Convair 880, and 990s. Faster than both the 707 and DC-8, and beautiful to see in the air. There's still one 990 airworthy in texas thats for sale for about $80k.

cv

[Mr Red]

I'm an admitted plane geek.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am an Aircraft Engineer,in fact those of you who know the FC in Surin will remember all the pictures. I love everything about aircraft. Did you know that if you flew everyday for the next 40,000 years you would just tip the odds of being in an aircrash. And to the L1011 Tri-Star worrier. Each Tri-Star is supposed to carry it's own ghost,that warns the pilot if anything is wrong. Only an old wives tale..Rubbish.........I hear most of you saying. On three occasions now the skipper of a 1011 has witnessed a phenonomen that has saved his aircraft from crashing. Maybe some of you have seen one of the films made about it. Myself I am a Boeing 707 man. Finest Aircraft ever built. Built like a brick &lt;deleted&gt; house. I will never forget the film of the commercial test flight of the 707, in front of all the prospective buyers. As the Aircraft passed the stand housing all the reps it did a barrel roll and flew inverted before rolling back. That took some nerve. I could go on forever on this subject but that'll do for now. To aircraft lovers everywhere. Just remember it's safer to take a plane than get out of bed each morning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A video of that famous roll is at Flyboy Network along with some other good pix and videos.

[lional6]

This is why Qantas has the best safety record since the Jet Age.

After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a "gripe

sheet," which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft.

The mechanics correct the problems; document their repairs on the form,

and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humour.

Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots

(marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by

maintenance engineers.

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.

S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.

S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.

S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.

S: Live bugs on back-order.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.

S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.

S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.

S: That's what they're for.

P: IFF inoperative.

S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.

S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.

S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny. (I love this one!)

S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.

S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.

S: Cat installed.

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget

pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget

[lampard10]

This is why Qantas has the best safety record since the Jet Age.

After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a "gripe

sheet," which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft.

The mechanics correct the problems; document their repairs on the form,

and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humour.

Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots

(marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by

maintenance engineers.

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.

S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.

S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.

S: Something tightened in cockpit. 

P: Dead bugs on windshield.

S: Live bugs on back-order.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.

S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.

S: Evidence removed. 

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.

S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.

S: That's what they're for.

P: IFF inoperative.

S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.

S: Suspect you're right. 

P: Number 3 engine missing.

S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny. (I love this one!)

S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.

S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.

S: Cat installed.

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget

  pounding on something with a hammer.

S: Took hammer away from midget

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love 'Em. Heard most of them but a few I havn't. One I heard slightly different.

P. # 3 Engine missing

S. Cowling opened. Engine found. Cowling closed.

My favourite flight deck remark of all time (only assumed of course)

The El-Al freighter pilots last words coming into Schipol

' What flock of bats'

By the way I think you'll find the best flight saftey record is now held by Eva Air. In fact up to when I checked not long ago, the only recorded incident was a wheel on the grass at LHR

[stephanbkk]

DC3!! - DC8 and 707

Up until maybe 1985 they were still flying between Boston Logan Airport and Provincetown. My first airline job was for Boston - Provincetown Airways so I got to fly them alot. Flight was less than an hour and flew low and very very noisy. I was the only flight attendant on board due to airline regulations but no service offered! As a kid in 1969 fliew DC8 on TransAmerica Airways (now defunct) from Shannon, Ireland to New York! Remember the plane being very long and narrow! When I started working for Qantas they still had some 707's which flew from London to Sydney! Quite a few stops in between!

Those were the days!! Oh and I'm only 43 so really not that long ago.