Is Thai Education Really That Bad?

[JR Texas]

The real question is what to do about the sorry state of the eduction system in Thailand. I have no solution. Thais seem extremely resistant to change. And they do not like taking well-meaning advice from foreigners.

Maybe it is simply an evolutionary process that will take place even if we do nothing.

Just the thought

Before we can improve our thai education,…..we need to improve the mindset of “the parents and society as a whole” toward ….how they are viewing/valuing many issues related to …..Class, gender, equality, and esp the deep root of the thai cultures and traditions, for example

Most kids here are taught/ have been raised to have “ears”,.....but not “mouth”

In most cases, they, the parents, owned us since the day we were born!!!.

And often times they will dictate …the way we should…..dress, act, our future profession, and many times …who we should marry also, etcs.

So most of us have never been raised to speak up or think outside the box, or critical/questionable thinking of something that is not “already the pre-set norms under the glass lid name of “culture/traditions”

Just me here

You are correct, in my view. I think both of us are talking about the "flow of cultural information." We are a cultural species and that means we have the ability to learn..........most of us learn by imitating and absorbing the flow of cultural information that is presented to us.

Parents are absolutely the most important source of information, especially at an early age. Later teachers, priests/monks, peers, etc., take over.

As the globalization of the flow of cultural information takes place, Thais will be exposed to a greater range of possibilities. Now they are culturally blinded by a narrow cultural stream. It is like looking at the world through a tiny hole in a straw.......you miss 99% of it.

Thais that travel abroad enlarge their mindset/vision. They come back a bit different. Maybe the internet can be used more to get Thais exposed to something other than what they are currently seeing through that tiny hole in the straw.

I think you get my meaning...........reading widely, and not just Thai books, is also something that can enlarge perspective.

Culture is restrictive........it is a powerful force........it is extraordinarily difficult to change.........those that control the flow of cultural information, CONTROL.

[apetley]

I recently bought a Thai/English Picture Dictionary for my Daughter..

It scared the sh*t out of me as it told us that a Bat is a Bird & a Whale is a Fish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I threw the Book away but i dread to think what they are taught to be honest, if this kind of thing is allowed to be in Books, especially one's that I understand..

Was the subject of your disgust the book or the Thai language?

If you bought an English/Thai picture dictionary, would you throw it away if it showed a picture of a sealion that did not look like a lion?

How sure are you that you really did understand the book before you tossed it?

What it looked like is not relevant to the post you are commenting on.

A bat is not a bird, it's a mammal.

A whale is not a fish, it is also a mammal.

[teacup]

Thais that travel abroad enlarge their mindset/vision. They come back a bit different. Maybe the internet can be used more to get Thais exposed to something other than what they are currently seeing through that tiny hole in the straw.

Ooooooh you have no idea, of how painful it is…. to come back and reintegrate to your “old family” with the “new you” after the oversea education.

Yay, we're different alright.......they seem to THINK-SO-TOO

Edited April 22, 2009 by teacup

[geriatrickid]

The focus of the discussion is flawed. Maybe the instruction format of schools is flawed or maybe it works since Thailand seems to have survived and prospered in comparison to its neighbours. All I know is that the onus of educational achievement is the responsibility of the parents (or guardians). It is up to those people to instil a desire to learn, to explore and to read. I have long lambasted my parents for wasting their money on a fancy private school for me since many of my friends that came out of the lacklustre public system went on to become super achievers.

If so many of you feel the system is poor or flawed, then make the effort to spend some time with your progeny and teach them to teach themselves. I spent alot of time drinking beer and screwing around when I was in university, but I also spent alot of time wandering the libraries reading the books. No one told me to go exploring the medical science library. I went on my own because my childhood had exposed me to such things. At first it was for the wonderful photographs of the weird and wacky stuff , but then I started reading the texts. It wasn't just there, they also had a great fine arts and cinema section.

There are plenty of people in this world that have not had the benefit of a great formal education, but they have prospered and done well in life because they were willing to learn about new things. That's a concept that is taught through example. Instead of worrying about a system you can't change, concentrate on the things you can, like reading a book to your kid and then discussing the story or in helping with the homework. A good education starts in your home.

Gawd, I sound like my old granny now.

Edited April 22, 2009 by geriatrickid

[fanta rood]

So exactly how much out-of-the-box thinking do you really need when learning a language like English?

I was referring to the thai education as a whole, not specifically on the language learning.

And why is it a fact that they are are not taught to speak and think for themselves? Are there some concrete examples of this?

Just look around you, whenever you are in thailand.....

I see people just being ignorant with no interests in politics, technology or general safety. No thirst for knowledge if you will. But I do see them coming up with creative solutions in everyday life. They can diagnose and repair problems with basic materials at hand. They can also make effective decisions. If they want a building they have one ready in one month. It blows my mind just how ineffective the politicians in Europe are in general. There are endless of debates and corruption. After 40 years there are still no results. Take the JSF for example. Politicians in europe they always react to current events instead of acting before them happening in the first place.

I also see alot of creativity when I take a look around the universities, cultural sites or the architecture in Bangkok.

[whatawonderfulday]

The focus of the discussion is flawed. Maybe the instruction format of schools is flawed or maybe it works since Thailand seems to have survived and prospered in comparison to its neighbours. All I know is that the onus of educational achievement is the responsibility of the parents (or guardians). It is up to those people to instil a desire to learn, to explore and to read. I have long lambasted my parents for wasting their money on a fancy private school for me since many of my friends that came out of the lacklustre public system went on to become super achievers.

If so many of you feel the system is poor or flawed, then make the effort to spend some time with your progeny and teach them to teach themselves. I spent alot of time drinking beer and screwing around when I was in university, but I also spent alot of time wandering the libraries reading the books. No one told me to go exploring the medical science library. I went on my own because my childhood had exposed me to such things. At first it was for the wonderful photographs of the weird and wacky stuff , but then I started reading the texts. It wasn't just there, they also had a great fine arts and cinema section.

There are plenty of people in this world that have not had the benefit of a great formal education, but they have prospered and done well in life because they were willing to learn about new things. That's a concept that is taught through example. Instead of worrying about a system you can't change, concentrate on the things you can, like reading a book to your kid and then discussing the story or in helping with the homework. A good education starts in your home.

Gawd, I sound like my old granny now.

After wading through the entire thread, I know I am a sad case, this is the most enlightning and encouraging reply and so true. Whilst there are problems with probably most educational systems, the negativity by some of the posters against the Thai system is most profound and I wonder is it based on there own extensive experience of going through the Thai sysytem or that of their children or just elaborating upon the "theme" expressed by others ?

In any event clearly many of those who have expressed such concern have never dealt with the majority of check-out staff in Sainsburys in the UK !! If they had then they could only draw the conclusion that the UK educational system there had failed already !!!

[fiddlehead]

Although i haven't seen it on this thread, i remember reading somewhere that Thai people on average have an IQ of 89.

Doesn't that explain something about the education system here?

The bigger question (if this is true) is: "Does the government want to change that?"

[teacup]

So exactly how much out-of-the-box thinking do you really need when learning a language like English?

I was referring to the thai education as a whole, not specifically on the language learning.

And why is it a fact that they are are not taught to speak and think for themselves? Are there some concrete examples of this?

Just look around you, whenever you are in thailand.....

I see people just being ignorant with no interests in politics, technology or general safety. No thirst for knowledge if you will. But I do see them coming up with creative solutions in everyday life. They can diagnose and repair problems with basic materials at hand. They can also make effective decisions. If they want a building they have one ready in one month. It blows my mind just how ineffective the politicians in Europe are in general. There are endless of debates and corruption. After 40 years there are still no results. Take the JSF for example. Politicians in europe they always react to current events instead of acting before them happening in the first place.

I also see alot of creativity when I take a look around the universities, cultural sites or the architecture in Bangkok.

What I meant was….

Don't go with common route, think of something new and inventive

in term of....search deeper.....be different.....think BIG.....do something no-one else would even think of doing. U know …trying to think up something …un-ordinary

More of forward thinking.....thinking into the FUTURE!!!

Yes they are some around, but just would like to see more of them, thats all

[JR Texas]

The focus of the discussion is flawed. Maybe the instruction format of schools is flawed or maybe it works since Thailand seems to have survived and prospered in comparison to its neighbours. All I know is that the onus of educational achievement is the responsibility of the parents (or guardians).

to explore and to read. I have long lambasted my parents for wasting their money on a fancy private school for me since many of my friends that came out of the lacklustre public system went on to become super achievers.

If so many of you feel the system is poor or flawed, then make the effort to spend some time with your progeny and teach them to teach themselves. I spent alot of time drinking beer and screwing around when I was in university, but I also spent alot of time wandering the libraries reading the books. No one told me to go exploring the medical science library. I went on my own because my childhood had exposed me to such things. At first it was for the wonderful photographs of the weird and wacky stuff , but then I started reading the texts. It wasn't just there, they also had a great fine arts and cinema section.

There are plenty of people in this world that have not had the benefit of a great formal education, but they have prospered and done well in life because they were willing to learn about new things. That's a concept that is taught through example. Instead of worrying about a system you can't change, concentrate on the things you can, like reading a book to your kid and then discussing the story or in helping with the homework. A good education starts in your home.

Gawd, I sound like my old granny now.

Hi Granny I totally agree with your point: "It is up to those people to instill a desire to learn."

Let me modify it a bit: Teach students how to teach themselves, and instill a desire to learn.

[fanta rood]

So exactly how much out-of-the-box thinking do you really need when learning a language like English?

I was referring to the thai education as a whole, not specifically on the language learning.

And why is it a fact that they are are not taught to speak and think for themselves? Are there some concrete examples of this?

Just look around you, whenever you are in thailand.....

I see people just being ignorant with no interests in politics, technology or general safety. No thirst for knowledge if you will. But I do see them coming up with creative solutions in everyday life. They can diagnose and repair problems with basic materials at hand. They can also make effective decisions. If they want a building they have one ready in one month. It blows my mind just how ineffective the politicians in Europe are in general. There are endless of debates and corruption. After 40 years there are still no results. Take the JSF for example. Politicians in europe they always react to current events instead of acting before them happening in the first place.

I also see alot of creativity when I take a look around the universities, cultural sites or the architecture in Bangkok.

What I meant was….

Don't go with common route, think of something new and inventive

in term of....search deeper.....be different.....think BIG.....do something no-one else would even think of doing. U know …trying to think up something …un-ordinary

More of forward thinking.....thinking into the FUTURE!!!

Yes they are some around, but just would like to see more of them, thats all

I'll make it easier for you show me examples of foreign education systems that stimulates that kind of thinking and show me why the thai education system fails at that.

[Samuian]

Dear All,

I have been teaching my two teenage nieces and a few other kids in the village for the past couple of years during my periodic five month stay away from the English winter.

They come to my class in the evening, three days a week for two hours.

My nieces continue to complete lessons I send them over the internet during my time in England.

I have been using material from England and the internet as I have found the Thai material generally poor to say the least.

Firstly I must say that the kids are very keen to learn, they are patient and respectful and attend these evening classes keenly.

The fact is that they are being let down by the standard of teaching in their schools.

Although I have to say that one of the students who is 13 years old and goes to a well respected school, can speak English better than most of the English school teachers I have met, so there are clearly some schools who teach to a good standard.

Most of my kids go to classes with over 40 students in them, with a teacher who cannot speak even elementary English.

I am not a teacher myself but I have now decided to concentrate on getting them to read and speak English.

In my humble opinion the problem is nothing to do with the character of the Thai's but much more to do with the resources and system of education in the country.

It is repeated here so many times, it's the system, the system, the system, the system........it' s the result of how the social fabric here is woven, the "mai pen rai" attitude, not to make anybody lose face and then if the teacher doesn't know better how the teacher can judge the comprehension of a student?

Take this across to all fields of teaching .... same with maths,same, same, same... lovely people but a lousy system!

[KhaoNiaw]

A lot of people seem to be focusing on English language teaching. In higher education, I have found that English is generally taught by very highly qualified, competent Thai teachers. The problem, and I assume that this extends to other subjects as well, is that this level of competence and ability is not found lower down the education system. The answer does not lie in employing, in the case of English, thousands of native speakers, many of whom would not be up to the task anyway. Improvement will only come by encouraging Thai graduates of the highest quality to join the teaching profession. A tough task considering pay and working conditions.

My daughter is just coming up to Mathayom 5, private Thai school (not too expensive or exclusive), no English programme. We made the decision to stay in Thailand quite early on, aware of the negatives but feeling they were outweighed by the positives. We nearly decided to move on when my daughter's year were a pilot group in the last round of major education reform, I think when she was in Prathom 3 or 4. The school and teachers were not really prepared and it was a complete mess. No textbooks at all, teachers had to prepare pretty much everything from scratch and a lot of it was awful. Things have gradually come together at the school and I'm now pretty happy with my daughter's progress. She has really become much more motivated and enquiring since she went into Mathayom 4, and has quite high ambitions for her further education. Her English oral communication skills and pronunciation are 1st language - you have to put in a bit of work yourself if you want writing skills and spelling as well.

Overall, the Thai education system clearly needs a serious overhaul but this should be achieved by getting talented, experienced and competent Thais to do the job. They are out there but for the most part not in Prathom / Mathayom education.

Edited April 22, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[teacup]

What I meant was….

Don't go with common route, think of something new and inventive

in term of....search deeper.....be different.....think BIG.....do something no-one else would even think of doing. U know …trying to think up something …un-ordinary

More of forward thinking.....thinking into the FUTURE!!!

Yes they are some around, but just would like to see more of them, thats all

I'll make it easier for you show me examples of foreign education systems that stimulates that kind of thinking and show me why the thai education system fails at that.

ok let me think and formulate the sentences .......be back

[fanta rood]

What I meant was….

Don't go with common route, think of something new and inventive

in term of....search deeper.....be different.....think BIG.....do something no-one else would even think of doing. U know …trying to think up something …un-ordinary

More of forward thinking.....thinking into the FUTURE!!!

Yes they are some around, but just would like to see more of them, thats all

I'll make it easier for you show me examples of foreign education systems that stimulates that kind of thinking and show me why the thai education system fails at that.

ok let me think and formulate the sentences .......be back

Oh btw everybody promotes creative thinking. You would be crazy not to. Its about how you achieve that by teaching.

Just in case you might think I meant something else

[Neeranam]

Depends on the school. But certainly English language at Thai schools has its own problems, they are taught grammar,reading and writing BUT many have NO idea what they are reading or writing. And don't get me started on conversation.

ernest old fruit you need to use the spell checker more.

Is this just for english or accross the whole cariculum ? Is this just for English or across the whole curriculum ?

Allan

Is this just for English, or the whole curriculum?

[fanta rood]

Depends on the school. But certainly English language at Thai schools has its own problems, they are taught grammar,reading and writing BUT many have NO idea what they are reading or writing. And don't get me started on conversation.

ernest old fruit you need to use the spell checker more.

Is this just for english or accross the whole cariculum ? Is this just for English or across the whole curriculum ?

Allan

Is this just for English, or the whole curriculum?

Thanks for make it so clear that he misspelled a word and even underlining it in his own quote to make it extra clear. Not to mention the subtle use of the red colour in your own reply.

That would have been too much for our clearly superior out-of-the-box thinking had you not done that.

[teacup]

What I meant was….

Don't go with common route, think of something new and inventive

in term of....search deeper.....be different.....think BIG.....do something no-one else would even think of doing. U know …trying to think up something …un-ordinary

More of forward thinking.....thinking into the FUTURE!!!

Yes they are some around, but just would like to see more of them, thats all

I'll make it easier for you show me examples of foreign education systems that stimulates that kind of thinking and show me why the thai education system fails at that.

ok let me think and formulate the sentences .......be back

Oh btw everybody promotes creative thinking. You would be crazy not to. Its about how you achieve that by teaching.

Just in case you might think I meant something else

Sorry.....late dinner

Ok here is one example ….

The thai education system is trying to find out what to teach “generally”….

while the west (from my experience, US ) is trying to find out “HOW/best method”to teach effectively also.

[Neeranam]

A good education starts in your home.

Absolutely.

I was an English teacher here for 14 years in every kind of institution so have experienced many aspects of Thai education. I just had a tough decision to make - whether to pay for my elder daughter to go to a private school or not. I decided to go for the school and their special "English program" because it is better than the normal school BUT it isn't really worth the money. These programs are a hit or a miss - maybe 20% of the teachers are "real" and good. Many drunken bums(like myself), and unqualified guys are allowed in.

[teacup]

and

I always think that generally the thai education is a bit rigid and less flexible, depending on memorizing facts and hardworks more (these could be reasons for contributing to students having "less creativity time", I guess)……. rather than think out of the box. They are being taught “mostly” how to solve the problem, but not necessary learn how to use the most effective way to achieve something…

..generally speaking & also from my own experiences here, of course

Edited April 22, 2009 by teacup

[Tyke]

I've only seen a small snapshot (or the results). My wife's sis has just finished senior/high school. She wants to be an english teacher and her parents are all up for it.

Reading skills are great, but there is no comprehension, of even a simple sentence. No understanding of what the words mean, let alone the gist of a whole sentence.

The parents are going to fork out x thousand baht to put her through uni, but I have doubts, if she is going to be a teacher is this the blind leading the blind, she's actually classed 3rd in the whole school for her abilities in english!

Is this the norm?

Is this just for english or accross the whole cariculum ?

Are you an expert on assessing English reading ability and comprehension skills? Under what circumstances and how was she assessed? Maybe it's you that's getting it all wrong and then blaming her. As you wrote "I've only seen a small snapshot (or the results)". It's half-baked statements of poorly crafted evidence like this that open up a whole front against anything Thai. Incidentally, I advise you to correct your own English in your posting. Listening to the speech of most school kids in the UK should tell you that they can't communicate effectively in their own language - and the UK education system is supposed to be the envy of the world - <deleted>.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Tyke

[Kitsch22]

I recently bought a Thai/English Picture Dictionary for my Daughter..

It scared the sh*t out of me as it told us that a Bat is a Bird & a Whale is a Fish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I threw the Book away but i dread to think what they are taught to be honest, if this kind of thing is allowed to be in Books, especially one's that I understand..

Was the subject of your disgust the book or the Thai language?

If you bought an English/Thai picture dictionary, would you throw it away if it showed a picture of a sealion that did not look like a lion?

How sure are you that you really did understand the book before you tossed it?

What it looked like is not relevant to the post you are commenting on.

A bat is not a bird, it's a mammal.

A whale is not a fish, it is also a mammal.

So what? The book was a dictionary, not a textbook on taxonomy.

The (linguistically) correct translation of "whale" is 'plaa waal'. You may not like it, but it is so.

Similarly, 'khaang khaow luuk nok' is the correct Thai name for a common species of bat.

So what it looked like (in a children's picture dictionary) was perhaps relevant, after all.

[Moonrakers]

My first and last foray into the teaching profession was some 9 years or so ago, it did not go well.

It was with a small private "school", the type that also operated as a travel agent amongst other things and it was wholly Thai owned.

I was offered the job because I regularly used to use the internet cafe there, I thought "why not" and so I started. Before my first lesson I received NO training whatsoever and the only material that I had to work from was a home made booklet that was full of spelling and grammar mistakes, mistakes such as "I like go shopping" and "We liking to go cinema".

Considering that I had to work from this I offered to correct it, free of charge of course to which I got the reply: "You have degree?". "No", I answered truthfully. "Well then, I right you wrong!" the guy told me.

And so for the rest of my short duration there I ended up knowingly 'educating' young kids to speak English incorrectly. A fu_king disgrace if you ask me, and that pretty much sums up my 2 week teaching 'career'.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Moonrakers

[Hyponeros]

I just interviewed several student who graduated or will graduate soon. Some learned English or French as their major and it is horrifying. They get their diplomas with relatively good grade (3.2) but they CANNOT make a single sentence without mistake or without having to think.

Then I asked one of them to name me one author (she studied in her last semester) and she could not remember any. I asked to name me a book and she forgot everything. How can a university give a diploma? What about doctors? Are they trained in the same way as language students???

[myauq]

I just interviewed several Thai students who have recently graduated, or will graduate soon. Some learned studied English or French as their majors, and it is but I found their overall language skills horrifying. They get got their diplomas with relatively good grades (3.2) but I found that they CANNOT make could not utter or write a single sentence without mistakes or without having to think for a long period of time before hand.

Then I also asked one of them interviewees to name me one an author (whose novels were studied during the in her last semester), and but she could not remember any single name. I asked her to name me a book, and she forgot everything also failed to remember. How can a university give a diplomas to people like this? What about doctors? -- Aare they also trained in the same way as language students?with the same lax standards and accountability?

[tilac22]

So thaicbr is teaching English. I hope that doesn't include punctuation.

[Neeranam]

I just interviewed several Thai students who have recently graduated, or will graduate soon. Some learned studied English or French as their majors, and it is but I found their overall language skills horrifying. They get got their diplomas with relatively good grades (3.2) but I found that they CANNOT make could not utter or write a single sentence without mistakes or without having to think for a long period of time before hand.

Then I also asked one of them interviewees to name me one an author (whose novels were studied during the in her last semester), and but she could not remember any single name. I asked her to name me a book, and she forgot everything also failed to remember. How can a university give a diplomas to people like this? What about doctors? -- Aare they also trained in the same way as language students?with the same lax standards and accountability?

[Oberkommando]

Example, go to a Thai restaurant anywhere in the world and your meal will be created by a Thai chef. Same with Indian, Chinese etc. etc.

Go to a French, Chinese, Italian, European retaurant here in Thailand, who is making your food..??

T.I.T

Most of the Thai restaurants in the UK are Chinese owned and run, so your argument is nonsense.

Additionally, most Indian restaurants in the UK are staffed by Bengalis, Napalese and Bangladeshis. Indians rarely do any of the cooking.

Western food in Thailand is of a horrible standard, in my experience the Thais can't even get a loaf of bread right, or crust a pie properly, let alone get anywhere close to gourmet.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Oberkommando

[Texpat]

I know almost nothing about the Thai education system.

But there's a technical college near my house and all the students act as if they're 10-years-old. They have a <deleted> recess!

I'm really embarassed for them each time I think of conversations or dealings I've had with American university students.

From what I've witnessed, there is no comparison.

[Treeshew77]

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts.

I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today.

However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn.

As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok.

I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school.

He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

Did you mean Montessori school in Samuthprakan? My friend finished from there too. But I have never seen that her ability is better than the others who finished from temple school.

[Oberkommando]

In any event clearly many of those who have expressed such concern have never dealt with the majority of check-out staff in Sainsburys in the UK !! If they had then they could only draw the conclusion that the UK educational system there had failed already !!!

Most of the people working in Sainsburys were probably educated in Eastern Europe.