A Couple Opinion Pieces On The Current Troubles

[MeetJohnDoe]

I don't know if these have been cited already here on the forum but I was surfing around the NYT website and came across these two recent op-ed pieces on Thailand's current troubles. One from a prof. at Chula and another by a frequent commentator on Asian affairs, Philip Bowring. The pieces make good reading as one is a Thai's opinion and the other's is a foreign observers' (a farangs') and they are published in a foreign media outlet so may be a little bit less self-censored as to certain topics than the local Thai press.

Here are the links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/opinion/18thitinan.html

[Boater]

But don’t be fooled by this uneasy calm. Until Thailand becomes a true democracy, we can expect more chaos in the streets.

exactly, the calm before the storm ! .... its a question of when

PHILIP BOWRING

interesting comments ..... but unfortunalty he could get arrest in thailand for what he wrote

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thanks for posting those!! Again some much needed balance that you just don't get from the usual suspects in the Thai press.

(Perhaps some people can start a poll on if the NY Times is biased, too)

[Boater]

(Perhaps some people can start a poll on if the NY Times is biased, too)

when reading these reports, i always find the foriegn papers to be more truthful and open , as they have freedom of spech in what they write ( if you catch my drift )

[fiddlehead]

Very interesting opinions by both.

Rough times ahead.

Edited April 23, 2009 by fiddlehead

[Jingthing]

The comparison in the second of article of Thaksin and Peron is very astute. Note that Juan Peron was a fascist dictator who exploited the frustrations of the peasants. I disagree that there is significant danger Thaksin will ever return to power. The reason? The reaction of the man on the street in Bangkok to the red terrorism of Black Songkran. He simply lacks enough support for what he wants to pull off and he is now severely damaged, shown to be a liar, hypocrite, violent instigator, and coward.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[Boater]

I disagree that there is significant danger Thaksin will ever return to power.

never say never, remember this is thailand, stranger things have happened................

wonder if ladbrooks would tkae bets on this

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The comparison in the second of article of Thaksin and Peron is very astute. Note that Juan Peron was a fascist dictator who exploited the frustrations of the peasants. I disagree that there is significant danger Thaksin will ever return to power. The reason? The reaction of the man on the street in Bangkok to the red terrorism of Black Songkran. He simply lacks enough support for what he wants to pull off and he is now severely damaged, shown to be a liar, hypocrite, violent instigator, and coward.

Again, you're overly focussed on Thaksin again. The issue is NOT Thaksin. Did you read those two articles? The issues go deeper but are clear as day. For starters, you write 'Thaksin returning to power', which assumes that Thai prime ministers are actually in charge of things.

You're completely blinded by your hate for one person, eclipsing the topics brought forward in the two linked articles.

Sticking with Peron: Whatever you think of the man matters far less than the fact that Argentina HAS become a proper democracy. One can only hope that ultimately Thailand will arrive there as well, and without going through a dirty war.

Edited April 23, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ubonjoe]

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Such posts will result in a warning and/or suspension.

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[Jingthing]

The comparison in the second of article of Thaksin and Peron is very astute. Note that Juan Peron was a fascist dictator who exploited the frustrations of the peasants. I disagree that there is significant danger Thaksin will ever return to power. The reason? The reaction of the man on the street in Bangkok to the red terrorism of Black Songkran. He simply lacks enough support for what he wants to pull off and he is now severely damaged, shown to be a liar, hypocrite, violent instigator, and coward.

Again, you're overly focussed on Thaksin again. The issue is NOT Thaksin. Did you read those two articles? The issues go deeper but are clear as day. For starters, you write 'Thaksin returning to power', which assumes that Thai prime ministers are actually in charge of things.

You're completely blinded by your hate for one person, eclipsing the topics brought forward in the two linked articles.

Sticking with Peron: Whatever you think of the man matters far less than the fact that Argentina HAS become a proper democracy. One can only hope that ultimately Thailand will arrive there as well, and without going through a dirty war.

So you are saying Thailand must go through a fascist dictator stage before it can become a true democracy. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. I think it is impossible to know the end result of an unlikely return to Thaksin power verses the greater probability that he is finished. I think the real sincere strivers for "true democracy" in Thailand would do best to start over. No red shirts. No Thaksin proxy parties. No Thaksin. And NO VIOLENCE! Yes, they need a new leader that has real moral credibility. Anything remotely associated with Thaksin, red shirts, and violent terrorism is not going anywhere. Peaceful PEOPLE POWER movements can make a difference, but not when they are based on a foundation of excrement. As was obvious to me even before Thaksin went insane, the red shirts are MUCH more VIOLENT than the yellow shirts. Violence is not the answer here, as the everyday people in Bangkok made crystal clear in their rejection of the red terror.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[flying]

Thanks !

Two very well balance articles.

Nice to see for a change.

[Pierrot]

Since you're in a reading mood, you should check this link :

http://www.economist.com/books/displaystor...ory_id=13484685

History never repeats itself but there is always something to learn from other coutries past.

[thaihome]

MONDAY was the Thai New Year, a public holiday. Normally you would see people in the streets, having fun and, in keeping with tradition, throwing water at one another. But this year hardly anyone was celebrating in downtown Bangkok.

I got as far as the first sentence when it became obvious the writer has no clue. I don't know where he was, but I was around Bangkok quite a bit on Monday and there were thousand out throwing water and even more going about normal business.

A much more accurate intro would have been:

While the hundreds of thousands of people left in Bangkok that did not head upcountry for the holiday were out throwing water or going about their normal lives, in a very small part of Bangkok, centered around the main government area, a few thousand people, bused into the city by their upcountry political bosses, did everything they could to incite the army into taking fatal action against them.

TH

Edited April 23, 2009 by thaihome

[blackout]

“The demonstrators claimed to be protesting systemic injustices and differing standards for rich and poor”

I do not see how can it be a mater of rich and poor here! I am seeing it as a problem between a group of people who can not stand thaksin’s way of democracy and a group of people benefit from thaksin’s offer.

“Elections are held, but if the establishment doesn’t like the winning party, the government is dissolved.”

This guy clearly forgot to say what thaksin have done, and what sparked the protest at the first place. wasn’t that because of thaksin’s corruption case?

Bangkok gave full support to thaksin, and even help him get away with his first tax misconduct case during his first 6 months as a PM. Then what happen in the next 6 years? Why not the guy talk about it too? why the free world media didn't ask? the brain is too small to think of? or simply they did not do their homework?

It is not as simple as “if the establishment doesn’t like the winning party, the government is dissolved” as he said.

Don’t tell me that no one remember what สมัคร said! Wasn’t that sparked new round of protesting at the time?

“We need a fully elected legislature, courts that can make impartial decisions on election outcomes and independent watchdog agencies.”

Just like the courts during thaksin’s time as we have seen?

I think a free world media need to do a lot more homework on this.

I don’t like what the yellow did, and I don’t like the dictator like thaksin either.

if people want to talk about Thailand democracy, make sure they talk about thaksin style of democracy, and the money can by everything from some thais too.

Do some more homework and ask your self if the urban really rich, and the rural really poor? You think people with farm, truck, spend money like crazy are poor? And what wrong if you want to work and save your own money for your own future? you should be punish right?

Is it right for a PM to make billion and pay no tax? If a PM do ,people in the country should keep quiet? will people in the west keep quiet?

Why no free world media want to talk about this? Did they do their homework or they might get financial support from someone? Why we can question about thai’s media being influence, but the samething can not apply to the international media too?

Are they god, no one can or even want to question them? It s sound like thaksin to me! Remember his 6-7 years? He was a new god of thailand, no one can question him and his money. Is that the free world style of demo- crazy?

[JetsetBkk]

I don't know if these have been cited already here on the forum but I was surfing around the NYT website...

I like this bit:

...the Constitutional Court abolished the red shirts' ruling People Power Party, leaving a vacuum to be filled by the current prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva. Few would call this democracy.

But apparently the vocal majority on this forum would.