From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

[photojourn]

Regarding the event of the night 12th April and early morning 13th, how can anyone have a decent photo when it's dark like this? All videos on tv are shown when it was bright and no soldier will shoot at the reds at day time when reporters of many countries are around.

When it was this dark, even people living in apartments did not dare to stick their heads out to shoot videos, worrying soldiers might shoot up the sky and they might catch the bullets.

All we can do is to wait. The truth is still the truth.

Yawn - your non-arguments are so silly.

Any homevideo camera has 'NIGHT SHOT' ability since 10 years.

Most modern cellphones has flashes to supplement the light-intake.

Any real cameras will have flashes with the ability to illuminate even complete dark alleys.

And your claim that people was to scared is really silly. Found the clips online with people videotaping caps taking bribes in full daylight? Here the people filming would be at much higher risk of being seen and possible have something terrible happening to them. You claim people was apparently huddling under their beds our of fear so they could film from inside, in cover of darkness...as not every apartment are located directly above the events going on. And filming across the street could therefor be done from several feet inside an apartment too.

Yawn...

Flash photos of troops committing murder. Great idea! You're braver and smarter than me if you think you could do that and tell the tale and I've been doing this sh_t for 25 years. Oh, wait - you've never been in that situation, have you?

[HagenvonTronje]

HagenvonTronje>> A link to a news-post, about a single 'witness' that says he saw something but without evidence that anything he says is true... is hardly something solid.

Unlike Koo82 in the past, Animatics post you responded to didn't contain any lies.

So be more careful as to whom you bash and why.

thats is one of the main concepts here, bring. quote and link that content that the newspapers had published.

now you could make fun of that so called newspaper and the quality of the news. i am one who point quiet often out that you can not believe everything, based on the that, that it's written in the Post or Nation. 'news' appears to be trashy, BS and fantasy , nonsense or comical masterpiece. happen often with those papers.

the article was a typical. normal facepalm level. it's a short protocol of what someone says.

this MP is talking in a parliament debate. but somehow the punch line got lost. Mr Worawat said that he did know the man's fate. and yeah, so what. the article doesn't report if Mr Worawat also told the auditorium what he knows. mhm, and we as reader doesn't get any information about that mans fate. does this artcle have any purpose or is it one of those surrealistic joys you can have, if you read the local media. ongoing the article also says that the MP talked about a second case. the end.

mhm. a proper article would have give us the whole picture, introduced the reader to that parliamentarien debate. whats is about, explain why this MP have his claims and what is the nature of the the evidence. would talk about the on going debate, what the other had to say, as explanation, recognition, deny or what so ever and the finaly outcome of the debate on that topic and i am satisfied as reader.

instead the Post comes up with these fragmentary lines. The Nation wouldn't do it any better. so now i know only that this MP thinks that something is fishy, if he havad any good back up for that or not. i don't know. that is not the fault of the MP, or the eyewitness, it's the fault of the newspaper.

someone who reads that maybe not so carefull like me, could come to the conclusion what actuallynever has ben reported. and than repeat that what he had fixed in his head as FACT. was it maybe not is.

thats why i always ask for links, where some claimes are made are backed up. what is the source, sir?

if you would change the colours involved, both of these flamers would have loved the article ( dosn't matter how confuse the article will still be and not recognizing that it's still a non fact)

if some other equaly article that fits the own political extrem would be quoted, or just a picture of the face of your political hate object pops here up, with the question nosejob or not, some silly partisans would that requoting like maniacs.

if it wasn't an entry from one of their mob gang, they disturb the ontopic flow with stupid ramblings and shoulder padding each other. mocking koo, for being koo, that is character assassination. and a lot of member s have fun on such mob attacks. it's pointles, unfunny.

and A brought a lot of assumption, silly theories and yeah also a LIE to this thread. not just his own opinion, no a lie. he is a liar. and he got caught. just skip a few pages back.

[TAWP]

Regarding the event of the night 12th April and early morning 13th, how can anyone have a decent photo when it's dark like this? All videos on tv are shown when it was bright and no soldier will shoot at the reds at day time when reporters of many countries are around.

When it was this dark, even people living in apartments did not dare to stick their heads out to shoot videos, worrying soldiers might shoot up the sky and they might catch the bullets.

All we can do is to wait. The truth is still the truth.

Yawn - your non-arguments are so silly.

Any homevideo camera has 'NIGHT SHOT' ability since 10 years.

Most modern cellphones has flashes to supplement the light-intake.

Any real cameras will have flashes with the ability to illuminate even complete dark alleys.

And your claim that people was to scared is really silly. Found the clips online with people videotaping caps taking bribes in full daylight? Here the people filming would be at much higher risk of being seen and possible have something terrible happening to them. You claim people was apparently huddling under their beds our of fear so they could film from inside, in cover of darkness...as not every apartment are located directly above the events going on. And filming across the street could therefor be done from several feet inside an apartment too.

Yawn...

Flash photos of troops committing murder. Great idea! You're braver and smarter than me if you think you could do that and tell the tale and I've been doing this sh_t for 25 years. Oh, wait - you've never been in that situation, have you?

Yet another one that doesn't know what others have or have not done but are willing to try to say they are much more experienced without anything to back them up. How unusual.

Notice that the post wasn't a 'best ways to take pictures undetected'-post, but a listing as to what can be used in total darkness. Including taking pictures of blood splatter on house-walls after the soldiers have moved on.

I would probably stick to night shot-mode on a film-camera or a proper genIII scope and system camera.

But that was hardly the point.

The point is that once again Red's are making up excuses as to why it is impossible to supply anything of value, besides 'I heard'-stories.

[LivinginKata]

A number of sarcastic & flaming posts have been removed.

If it continues this topic will be closed.

The flaming & feuding continues....

Members are perfectly entitled to present opposing views. Member are not allowed to flame, make fun of, be sarcastic, be insulting, and so on, of other members.

A further number of posts have been edited or removed. Last warning people.

[photojourn]

Representatives of top military commanders told the House of Representatives committee yesterday that the Songkran Day crackdown met international standards and that no live bullets had been fired at the red-shirt protesters.

Maj-General Ong-art Pongsak, deputy commander of the First Army Region, told the panel on laws, justice and human rights that the operation, which had been overseen by an Army general, was merely aimed at dispersing the crowds.

He admitted that though some military officers were carrying pistols with live bullets, they were only meant to be used to protect high-ranking commanders overseeing the operation. He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day.

Not a single live bullet fired on Songkran clash day - Army

So there you have it. They were all blanks. the worlds only M16s that fire blank rounds on semi and full automatic without a Blank Firing Attachment (BFA).

Guess the holes in the taxis and buses must have been from metal worm and the noises going over our heads must have been flying pigs.

Seems to me the Army's story has changed at least three times now.

Edited April 29, 2009 by photojourn

[samgrowth]

Mark never lie.

When he said ZERP death and 77 injured, that is the fact.

Unless you can prove otherwise.

Show me the bodies.

[HagenvonTronje]

Military insists not a single bullet fired on Songkran Day

By The Nation, Published on April 30, 2009

Representatives of top military commanders told the House of Representatives committee yesterday that the Songkran Day crackdown met international standards and that no live bullets had been fired at the red-shirt protesters.

Maj-General Ong-art Pongsak, deputy commander of the First Army Region, told the panel on laws, justice and human rights that the operation, which had been overseen by an Army general, was merely aimed at dispersing the crowds.

Representing Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda, Ong-art said before the crackdown began, rioters had thrown petrol bombs at soldiers and run some over with speeding taxis.

He admitted that though some military officers were carrying pistols with live bullets, they were only meant to be used to protect high-ranking commanders overseeing the operation. He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day.

General Worapong Sa-nganet, deputy chief of staff who appeared as a representative of the armed forces supreme commander General Songkitti Jakkrabatra, said the crackdown was carried out under international standards and was in line with relevant laws. He said soldiers had taken part in the operation at the request of the police.

Songkitti served as chairman of the State of Emergency Solving Committee.

At yesterday's meeting, chaired by Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee, other MPs asked lots of questions about the crackdown, which some of them described as violent.

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

[Thai at Heart]

Military insists not a single bullet fired on Songkran Day

By The Nation, Published on April 30, 2009

Representatives of top military commanders told the House of Representatives committee yesterday that the Songkran Day crackdown met international standards and that no live bullets had been fired at the red-shirt protesters.

Maj-General Ong-art Pongsak, deputy commander of the First Army Region, told the panel on laws, justice and human rights that the operation, which had been overseen by an Army general, was merely aimed at dispersing the crowds.

Representing Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda, Ong-art said before the crackdown began, rioters had thrown petrol bombs at soldiers and run some over with speeding taxis.

He admitted that though some military officers were carrying pistols with live bullets, they were only meant to be used to protect high-ranking commanders overseeing the operation. He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day.

General Worapong Sa-nganet, deputy chief of staff who appeared as a representative of the armed forces supreme commander General Songkitti Jakkrabatra, said the crackdown was carried out under international standards and was in line with relevant laws. He said soldiers had taken part in the operation at the request of the police.

Songkitti served as chairman of the State of Emergency Solving Committee.

At yesterday's meeting, chaired by Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee, other MPs asked lots of questions about the crackdown, which some of them described as violent.

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

Sometimes, some things are just best left unsaid. So what is left for the next time the army has to disperse a crowd?

[nitecm]

Military insists not a single bullet fired on Songkran Day

By The Nation, Published on April 30, 2009

Representatives of top military commanders told the House of Representatives committee yesterday that the Songkran Day crackdown met international standards and that no live bullets had been fired at the red-shirt protesters.

Maj-General Ong-art Pongsak, deputy commander of the First Army Region, told the panel on laws, justice and human rights that the operation, which had been overseen by an Army general, was merely aimed at dispersing the crowds.

Representing Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda, Ong-art said before the crackdown began, rioters had thrown petrol bombs at soldiers and run some over with speeding taxis.

He admitted that though some military officers were carrying pistols with live bullets, they were only meant to be used to protect high-ranking commanders overseeing the operation. He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day.

General Worapong Sa-nganet, deputy chief of staff who appeared as a representative of the armed forces supreme commander General Songkitti Jakkrabatra, said the crackdown was carried out under international standards and was in line with relevant laws. He said soldiers had taken part in the operation at the request of the police.

Songkitti served as chairman of the State of Emergency Solving Committee.

At yesterday's meeting, chaired by Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasopdee, other MPs asked lots of questions about the crackdown, which some of them described as violent.

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

Sometimes, some things are just best left unsaid. So what is left for the next time the army has to disperse a crowd?

So much argument .Ahbisit Known the best and do not has such narrow thinking. A gentle man act and the only way to solve the problem .

[animatic]

I have no doubt that EVERY soldier had live rounds available

in case the situation got life threatening for them.

I for one would not heasitate to go the other way ASAP

if ANY rifle was pointed my way and smoke issued from the barrel and sound arrived.

I would NOT assume they were not live rounds, but that I wasn't the target or I was missed.

So this was a very good way to dispurse a out of control crowd.

And there was ample evidense on video prior to this to show

this crowd was WAY out of control, and so using blanks was a good tactic.

No one wants to be the FIRST to find they are REAL rounds...

Plenty shows the crowd out of control at many locations

NOTHING shows the army killing ANYONE.

Edited April 30, 2009 by animatic

[HagenvonTronje]

what you want to say?

"He admitted that though some military officers were carrying pistols with live bullets, they were only meant to be used to protect high-ranking commanders overseeing the operation. He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day."

"He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day"

"He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day."

"He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day."

"He added that not a single live bullet was shot that day."

TWAPs point? i can only guess: before was some discussions about live bullets in the air, and there have been photos of bullet holes on at least one taxi.

so no live bullets at red-shirts direct, doesn't exclude that there have been bullets fired in the air or at objects?

is it that what you mean? TWAP reads the text much more careful as others maybe, and he spotted that importend "at "what can change the meaning.

a few, the ones not reading the text careful enough, now would say the army uncle lies because there have been short in the air. but at the next press conference the army unlce could witty reply to such claims. hey my friends, why don't listen careful. i only said no live bullets at red shirts. har har. got you. wouldn't that be kindergarten? to avoid any misunderstandings, he could have make clear that there have been live bullets in the air, only sometimes of course, but never ever direct at red shirt protesters.

or what you want to say, TWAP? it's little bit unclear because you just quote a single line, 4 times, without explanation.

and if you read further in that article, there comes also a line without that at, that seems to be so importent to you. there you don't see that at like in no live bullets had been fired at the red-shirt . it is like the army uncle want to tell us. no live bullet at all, also not in the air, never ever.

@ all, have someone the link to previous statements by Abhisit or by somebody from the Army. i will look myself, but mabye somebody else is faster. i don't remember exactly those statements, the deny of the use of any live bullets, sounds for surprising new. i thought there was on all side consens about live bullets fired into the air. i remember one statement of Abhisit where he said, that the wounds of some protesters can only come from handguns, from firearms, the army not use. the wounds caused by the Rifles the army i equipped with cause depper and more fleshy wounds, or so. Abhisit gave some gory 'picture'/ description of such a wound but hence the protester has an other kind of wounds, it can not come from the army.

okay, i saw (TV, photo, youtube) those soldiers who carring pistols, or handguns aiming at something on street level, and it also looks like that the are shoting. somebody else saw those situations too? before i didn't bother to post such video here, soldiers with handguns, to make a point.

[Thai at Heart]

I have no doubt that EVERY soldier had live rounds available

in case the situation got life threatening for them.

I for one would not heasitate to go the other way ASAP

if ANY rifle was pointed my way and smoke issued from the barrel and sound arrived.

I would NOT assume they were not live rounds, but that I wasn't the target or I was missed.

So this was a very good way to dispurse a out of control crowd.

And there was ample evidense on video prior to this to show

this crowd was WAY out of control, and so using blanks was a good tactic.

No one wants to be the FIRST to find they are REAL rounds...

Plenty shows the crowd out of control at many locations

NOTHING shows the army killing ANYONE.

I agree, there is no hard proof of anyone getting killed. It is just rumor-mongering and tittle tattle. Bad things happen when crowds and the army normally get into proximity anywhere in the world (and Thailand does have it's history) so it would be very surprising if no-one was shot intentionally or not. But without evidence presumably no one got shot. The fact that live rounds weren't fired "at" the crowd is a ridiculous statement on the part of the army commander, since, they could just have likely shot someone in a window in that case. So what he is saying, is that we had live rounds, and fired them sort of around and about them to get them to move.

I am just amazed that the army has gone to all this trouble, with there being no evidence as yet, to basically say, "ha, ha, we fooled them into running away". It comes across as very clever and quite smug to be honest. Why give away the fundamental source of their tactics? Does he think they won't have to carry out the same type of operation again in the not too distant future. When a young bunch of squaddies are called into perform the next crowd removal, which I have little doubt will happen within the next 6 months, they might get lynched if they don't have live rounds, or the entire oncoming mob will get gunned down because they will believe that potentially none or only a small amount of the soldiers will have live ammunition. A mob doesn't stand around to wait for them all to get hold of live rounds. If the live shooters are mixed in with the blanks, a clever tactic that can only be open to potential abuse I would reckon and needs excellent organisation and a strong chain of command. It is the Thai army we are discussing isn't it?

[HagenvonTronje]

Plenty shows the crowd out of control at many locations

NOTHING shows the army killing ANYONE.

is there really that much evidence of red crowd out of control at many locations? in bangkok, really a big riot crowd and at so many locations.

i mean from the day of the crackdown. there have been the reports before how the limousines have been smashed, okay. that was also a failure that there wasn't any crowd control at all. in my opinion, because i didn't saw many pictures of any police line that got overrun, fights between police and protesters, and the security around these cars did nearly nothing.

so about the street riots in bangkok.

taking a map or google earth satellite pic like below, and mark there where what happend and add some pictures, videoclips.

maybe we need a pic that show more from bangkok, this is just the one that gave me the idea- i took it from a thread at pantip forum. what is marked with the red line is din daeng living area where the gas truck have been, the red circle marks Ratchaprarop soi 12, there was the scene with the two women and the hair puller.

[Koo82]

No real bullet has been fired to the reds?

What can run through his right leg and run to his left leg? This photo was shown by Peua Thai MP in the Parliament meeting 22nd and 23rd April 2009.

Sorry for the scary photo but I must post it:

[Koo82]

They block many websites saying there are death in this Song Kran. Only those saying how ugly Khun Thaksin is are readable. Only those saying there are "2 death caused by the reds" are readable. They block DStation too.

They want people to believe that they did not use violence to the reds.

But the reds still have meetings showing photos.

No violence?

[animatic]

Koo it isn't only bullets that can make wounds like your picture.

A long stick or metal pole would do it too.

Rioting in the streets almost ALWAYS means people are injured,

some from their own actions others from bad luck.

Edited May 1, 2009 by animatic

[webfact]

Well, not only bullets create wounds...

so it would be very interesting if a physician (maybe someone in this board) could give his opinion.

Edited May 1, 2009 by LivinginKata

[HagenvonTronje]

that gory picture is from Petchaburi soi 5/7

no army involved there but residents of that street/soi. it's a muslim community there. this is one of a couple of threads to the petchaburi situation on Pantip

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi...2/P7753252.html

there are claims, that a yellow shirt started the fight, which become later bigger and more people involved. locals blocked the road, armed with clubs.

the yellow shirt, played songkran there, but there are pics, how a red shirt got knocked of the moto bike, beaten and that was maybe the beginning of furtherdevelopment. from the supopposed to be yellow residents exist a pic from the last years october riots. the people on this pics are looking very similar, could be same person.

that this wound form the pic is a firearm wound is not disputed. i thought you know it all? thats why i ask all the time, how you can back up your claims of red attacks and so on. BS was it. maybe i should start to post pics.

edit: add some more comment

Edited May 1, 2009 by HagenvonTronje

[HagenvonTronje]

anyway, there are pic of armed civilians together with soldiers. so that there have been nobody in combat uniform doesn't have to mean anything.

below the resident of ptechaburi and a yellow riot fighter on 7. oct. same person? (a third pic added for memory refresh of oct. 7, look pic 2 again)

[ballpoint]

that gory picture is from Petchaburi soi 5/7

no army involved there but residents of that street/soi. it's a muslim community there. this is one of a couple of threads to the petchaburi situation on Pantip

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topi...2/P7753252.html

there are claims, that a yellow shirt started the fight, which become later bigger and more people involved. locals blocked the road, armed with clubs.

the yellow shirt, played songkran there, but there are pics, how a red shirt got knocked of the moto bike, beaten and that was maybe the beginning of furtherdevelopment. from the supopposed to be yellow residents exist a pic from the last years october riots. the people on this pics are looking very similar, could be same person.

that this wound form the pic is a firearm wound is not disputed. i thought you know it all? thats why i ask all the time, how you can back up your claims of red attacks and so on. BS was it. maybe i should start to post pics.

edit: add some more comment

So, by the admission of a fellow red, Koo is guilty of posting fraudulently labelled pictures again? It's all getting rather tiring, make some false claims, show a picture that has nothing what so ever to do with them as evidence, and put your fingers in your ears and turn away when confronted with the truth.

Given that the reds had attacked a mosque, and threatened the lives and homes of other Bangkok residents, I'm surprised at the restraint shown by these people in defending themselves.

[hammered]

My take is of course some soldiers had live rounds and some blanks. Whatever the final casualty tally it will be low though as we dont have hospitals filled with bullet ridden people and the fatc is in combat a lot more peopleget inf\jured than killed.

Of course some live rounds will have been fired direct. The footage of buses being sped towards soldiers is enough for a person to know if you had live rounds you would have emptied the clipintothe bus if it was coming towards you. Also any soldier who felt threatened or scared may also have fired direct.

It does though bring us back to the casulaty list from hospitals not being very high infact maybe lower than Oct 7. That alone indicates whatever the final figure it isnt goign to dramatically change.

On the debate over whether yellow or blue or local residents. Well I know for a fact that at Din Daeng some of thsoe who chased the red shirts away were red shirt symapthisers the day before. Most though were apolitcal and no doubt some were yellows. Local communities are like that. They are made up of people with differnet opinions although most people are generally apolitical. It is going tobe the same in other places. If you feel your community, house, property, family, life are threatened the chances are you are going to do something about it. This isnt about organised yellow or blue action. Songkhran was onjgoing pople were drinking and enjoying themselves and they see the red riot on TV then deds come near them. Predictable really. Common sense rather than conspiracy theories explain most things in life.

The government while going after leaders of the rdds seem to have left the lesser ones alone. Thjey also seem to have left the vigilante action alone and from what I know some of this was heavy. Then again if you start a riot and get molotoved up you are quite likely asking for a kicking from anyone who feels threatened.People have had enough of rd and yellow demos and are starting to make it known in at least Bangkok although therehave been reports of reds attacked in other places including even some Northern towns.

[justanothercybertosser]

On the debate over whether yellow or blue or local residents. Well I know for a fact that at Din Daeng some of thsoe who chased the red shirts away were red shirt symapthisers the day before. Most though were apolitcal and no doubt some were yellows. Local communities are like that. They are made up of people with differnet opinions although most people are generally apolitical. It is going tobe the same in other places. If you feel your community, house, property, family, life are threatened the chances are you are going to do something about it. This isnt about organised yellow or blue action. Songkhran was onjgoing pople were drinking and enjoying themselves and they see the red riot on TV then deds come near them. Predictable really. Common sense rather than conspiracy theories explain most things in life.

The government while going after leaders of the rdds seem to have left the lesser ones alone. Thjey also seem to have left the vigilante action alone and from what I know some of this was heavy. Then again if you start a riot and get molotoved up you are quite likely asking for a kicking from anyone who feels threatened.People have had enough of rd and yellow demos and are starting to make it known in at least Bangkok although therehave been reports of reds attacked in other places including even some Northern towns.

Not exactly. The Din Daeng community is mostly made up of Red sympathizers, and yes, they naturally got angry that some Reds places the gas truck there.

The communities at Nang Loern/Yommarat are mostly pro-PAD, and had PAD re-enforcements at night, who engaged in the battles.

The time line of the Petchaburi Soi 5/Soi 7 incident was that Red Shirts were shot at first. There were PAD holed up in the Sois, and the local residents there are known not to support Red Shirts.

Communities are politicised very much nowadays. The area where i live in Bangkok is mostly made up of very open Red sympathizers, many migrants from the North and the Northeast. The nearby Mu Bans with many middle class Thai Chinese is mostly yellow though.

Abhsit's promises of reconciliation are PR talk geared towards potential investors. More important is what Suthep says and does. That though is more often than not the exact opposite of what Abhsit says. Within the Democrat Party Suthep has far more power than Abhisit.

If Suthep just calls these vigilantes "local residents" and thanks them for their support, then anybody who has some inkling about the situation can see that this is a double standard that will make reconcilliation even more difficult. The same counts for the now infamous Blue Shirts, who Suthep calls "volonteers from Chonburi and Pattaya". I believe the talk of reconcilliation when the government goes as vehemntly against those as they go against Red Shirts, and stops obfuscating the issue.

What about the Red Shirts that have been shot by those Blue Shirts before the violence in Bangkok began? Why is that not highlighted the same way as the violence that has been done by Red Shirts?

[HagenvonTronje]

So, by the admission of a fellow red, Koo is guilty of posting fraudulently labelled pictures again? It's all getting rather tiring, make some false claims, show a picture that has nothing what so ever to do with them as evidence, and put your fingers in your ears and turn away when confronted with the truth.

Given that the reds had attacked a mosque, and threatened the lives and homes of other Bangkok residents, I'm surprised at the restraint shown by these people in defending themselves.

do you know where that bullet came from? reds attacked a mosque, when did that happen?

and also what was going on on soi 5/7, petchaburi at all., you know it better than koo?

[Oberkommando]

Once again, all M16s I saw were cycling live ammo.

No blank firing adaptors = impossible to cycle blank ammo in an M16.

[ballpoint]

do you know where that bullet came from? reds attacked a mosque, when did that happen?

and also what was going on on soi 5/7, petchaburi at all., you know it better than koo?

From what I've seen of Koo's posting, I'd say I do know it better than him / her. And, for someone quick to spread around terms such as "credulous" and "clueless", you actually know very little too, other than the pre-prepared propaganda speeches of the great leader.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-244941 No doubt you'll come back with the latest cover all response, "they weren't real reds". "Third hand" describes your news postings, not these red thugs.

I'd say Koo has brought the bashing on him / her self. Not content to merely keep repeating the same old "yellows slept in government house, closed down two airports, Khunt is my PM, it's not fair, blah blah blah", (s)he has increasingly resorted to posting pictures and making fraudulent clams about them. And that's not forgetting the "Abhisit is a draft dodger" posts, where (s)he claimed to be a Thai parent, yet knew nothing at all about the country's draft laws. As the great leader has found out, some of the people will believe your lies all of the time, indeed, many of the people may begin by believing your lies some of the time, but sooner or later, most of the people are going to see through all of your lies.

[Koo82]

With Police using tear gas to PAD on 7th Oct and media cried a lot. In this Song Kran, soldiers carried these and all I hear is the reds killed people at Nang Lerng. What do the reds get from killing people? They want more and more people to join them. What's the point of killing?

What do I need to learn from draft laws? My son only joins some kinds of local forces and he's done. That's all I know. The reds said Abhisit did not pass the blood test for Army call.

[webfact]

With Police using tear gas to PAD on 7th Oct and media cried a lot. In this Song Kran, soldiers carried these and all I hear is the reds killed people at Nang Lerng. What do the reds get from killing people? They want more and more people to join them. What's the point of killing?

What do I need to learn from draft laws? My son only joins some kinds of local forces and he's done. That's all I know. The reds said Abhisit did not pass the blood test for Army call.

What has this to do with his ability to GOVERN the country???

[Koo82]

The post in Bangkok Post said about a red who said he jumped out from the truck carrying about 10 people towards Lop Buri. He should have photos to show. Unfortunately he is not James Bond.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...protester-shown

Without any concrete evidence, I too could have claimed that I saw Thaksin raping you in your bedroom. But that doesn't make it true, one bit. You need evidence to prove it. Don't you find it strange that you can believe whatever the reds say so easily without any evidence, but equally easily you can refuse and dismiss any court rulings against Thaksin and his family despite all the evidence stacked up against them?

Where is your logic or standard in believing anything? Huh?

Logic comes from joining the red protest 3 times and seeing with my own eyes who they are and what they fight for.

From watching what Democrat Party has done and why they lost elections.

From watching how Abhisit comes to his chair not after an election but the help from street violence of PAD and help from Army.

The reds have evidence to show when they talk. I find it harder to protect the yellows for what the yellows have done. But surprisingly people still can do it.

So tell me, what will be charged to those who blocked airports? What about cooking on tv and went down for that? Which case is more serious? Same for Khun T's land case. Alarm should ring that a PM is disqualified for appearing on his cooking shows.

[ThNiner]

Logic comes from joining the red protest 3 times

Wow, what a shocking revelation!!

[Koo82]

What has this to do with his ability to GOVERN the country???

So cooking on tv shows that Khun Samak does not have ability to govern the country?

Comparing:

- a man avoiding his duty as a man

- and a man cooking on tv

which man is worse?

People said Abhisit did not control the situation well that he let the reds run into Asean Summit in Pattaya.

The truth is Abhisit and Khun Thaksin do not have the control of the army. They can bring tanks in any time when they like. Abhisit must listen to army because they helped him to be in power. Army wanted to get the power by coup but it looks ugly in international eyes, so they supported Abhisit. Everybody knows this.

Suthep looks more like the real PM to me.