Single Minded Thais?

[srisatch]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance? that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

[chico]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions..

it certainly is difficult for thais to admit that they do not know, therefore they try to say something positiv, which does not help us

on the other hand, the thai language is different from ours, and offers less possibilities to express clearly, what they want to say -

not to mention, that our upbringing, schooling, life experience have been teaching us, to be short and strait -

average thais tend to talk around, many don't have too much education and experience -

a totally different story with thais having lived or studied in europe or the US - not much difference to us, other than them earning less money!

it drove me crazy for years, when my wife asked for directions, got them, and we could never find that place - have given up, ask myself, or just look myself

[aaaaaa]

well, I think first of all - we shouldn't generalise coz not everybody is same.

some things can be same or similar, but not all.

my wife doesn't WANT to aks question such as you mentioned - doesn't mean she can't. she explained it by feeling "shy". and many other things also motivated by same "shyness". and it comes to some deegrees when she even tries to stop me from asking....

but

I observed and pointed out to her that it doesn't mean all Thai people share her opinion.

and she does ask Qs quite often when it is obvious that there is no any other way of getting the necessary information. although she admited to me that the reason she doesn't want to ask is something like: "why I should ask if I can find that out myself?"

about other issues - like buying first seen item. well , not necessarily the first - but she does have similar inclanation / dendency to fall for promotions etc. takes time EVERY time to explain to her, that the criteres to buy or not to buy something must not be its cheap price even if it is 50 satang, but do we realy need that at all or not. otherwise we'll end up with our home stuffed up with wonderfull cheap things of no any use!

but I don't agree that THai ppl don't answer or don't want to answer the Qs.... in fact - many offer their help even if it is not needed. like if I appear to be lost and looking for something just because I stoped on the street and want to decide what to do or changed my planes - sometimes some Thai approaches me and asks: "may I help u? where u wanna go?"

and about such a big Q as "Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? " - how can be given any objective A at all ? it is so relative !

[Harmonica]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

 

Another attempt at bashing Thais? ... albeit well-disguised!

[aaaaaa]

..............

it drove me crazy for years, when my wife asked for directions, got them, and we could never find that place - have given up, ask myself, or just look myself

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah! and especially - for her being ANGRY with me if I try to ask Qs myself! "you should let me do that - you can't speak Thai that well - but I'm THai. people you ask can't speak English !" or something like that.

also - refusal to make a phone call and an appointment. she says: "no need for that, we can just go and find. you don't understand Thai culture - we should be polite and not disturb people unnecessarily !" then arriving to the place we start to waste time even to find a phone booth (well, my fault - didn't recharge battery of cell phone ) and make SEVERAL phone calls to that person to explain how to find the place etc etc. then.... she become tired / bored/ upset / whatever to complete whole affair - and insists on going back home! nice! then what for we've come here? we could save us hussle and time and nerves by one single phone call for appointment which could clarify things once and forever - and won't be necessary to go anywhere at all ! but no - her logic functions differently. although after certain amount of time spend on reasoning with her she would eventually admit that she was simply stubborn/ lazy/ "shy" / etc. to do as I suggested !

well, at least she can be more often reasonable than not.

as I said - telling her that it is only her style and way of thinking and opinions etc. - not necessarily of ALL Thai ppl helps.

but then - not only Thais like to use generalizations as a solid evidence of their point. it is common human flaw it seems: to use superlatives and exaggarations etc. or by supporting one's argument selected evidences. there are plenty of examples even in this very Forum !

although I think my wife is undisputed expert and champion who'll beat anyone in that. she seems like knows only one sentence pattern: "you never......" do something ....

[Jai Dee]

it certainly is difficult for thais to admit that they do not know, therefore they try to say something positiv, which does not help us

This is one of the most frustrating things about communicating with Thais... whether it be in the workplace, on the street, or at home.

Having said that, our western way of thinking is vastly different culturally to the Thais, and in order to work through a situation, one must start to think a little bit like the Thais.

It does come eventually... if you are prepared to work at it.

However, some things you may never understand.

[aaaaaa]

it certainly is difficult for thais to admit that they do not know, therefore they try to say something positiv, which does not help us

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is one of the most frustrating things about communicating with Thais... whether it be in the workplace, on the street, or at home.

Having said that, our western way of thinking is vastly different culturally to the Thais, and in order to work through a situation, one must start to think a little bit like the Thais.

It does come eventually... if you are prepared to work at it.

However, some things you may never understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, good point !

after a while my whife got certain ability to admit things. but more often she wants rahter me to admit something than her ! so we sort of playing game "admit it". as long as it helps to bridge the gaps in comunication and understanding - why not?

[DJ Pat]

It took me ages to actually find a Thai girl who voluntarily told me about her childhood and parents and life in general, stuff like

"When I was 7 we went ....."

"My parents would always take us to...."

"I feel that the Thaksin government is..."

"Why do my fellow people..."

"I wish they'd bloody hurry up here...."

Just simple things...

[srisatch]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another attempt at bashing Thais? ... albeit well-disguised!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you think that is bashing Thais it means you either cannot read or you cannot answer the questions

I speak Thai fluently, and my wife is no slouch when it comes to English, but we talk about this on and on, trying to find out whether it is 'language' or 'culture'. Yes of course Thai as a language constructs the world differently, and yes the whole issue of manners and troubling people is very real.

There is no imputation of better or worse ways of being/thinking/doing here. I would really like to understand from all your experiences whether there are different 'cognitive' or other explanations..or whether it is simple language deficient misunderstanding. Austin Coates, whom I admire..magistrate in HK, in Myself a Mandarin p39/40 says that Chinese people think Westerners ..."waste mental energy and are incoherent...while Chinese people are self centred to a point of being unsystematic...neither quite right he says.

[chico]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another attempt at bashing Thais? ... albeit well-disguised!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you think that is bashing Thais it means you either cannot read or you cannot answer the questions

I speak Thai fluently, and my wife is no slouch when it comes to English, but we talk about this on and on, trying to find out whether it is 'language' or 'culture'. Yes of course Thai as a language constructs the world differently, and yes the whole issue of manners and troubling people is very real.

There is no imputation of better or worse ways of being/thinking/doing here. I would really like to understand from all your experiences whether there are different 'cognitive' or other explanations..or whether it is simple language deficient misunderstanding. Austin Coates, whom I admire..magistrate in HK, in Myself a Mandarin p39/40 says that Chinese people think Westerners ..."waste mental energy and are incoherent...while Chinese people are self centred to a point of being unsystematic...neither quite right he says.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jay Dee "I try thinking like Thais.."

I do have been trying it, but must admit that (for me) it is not easy, therefore I try the other way, bringing my wife do understand my thinking, and after a few years, she is pretty good at it.

srisatch :"being/thinking/doing"

my understanding (now) of thai thinking is, that education/upbringing has given the average thai a very profund respect (even fear) of some professions like teacher, police, and this is not easy to overcome. I have been working on it for years, and it still exists with my wife, although it is much better now.

and one more thing : I told her in the beginning :"if you ask, your chance of a positive answer is 50% yes, 50% no - if you don't ask, its 100% no"

it took quite some while, but now she has got it, and it makes asking a lot easier for her - have to add, I always said, have to stay calm and polite, BUT ASK!!

to name some.

[Lancelot]

About directions, I've learned the hard way that Thai taxi drivers will NEVEr say they don't know where this or that place is. If I don't know the place myself and they don't give me a solid Khop phom!; I look for a new taxi...

About being self absorbed, I (politely) asked my Thai gf why thais will crowd into an elevator or skytrain before letting people disembark. Her answer was that "they are only thinking that they want inside-they are not trying to block you from exiting...."

Like Dorothy said "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."

In all fairness, the Thais are "babes in the woods" when compared with mainland chinese charging into subway cars....

[bina]

hello ?? reality check here??

my humble opinion of american and israeli MEN is that they never never never will ask for directions but prefer to drive in circle forever and curse until they find their way;

shopping? all the thai men ive seen shopping will drag me for miles thruough the 'shuk' (market) checking prices for hot peppers or cow innards before we go back to , yep! ., original place to buy same.....

but thai will not ask questions of doctors (shy, or in deference to someone who supposedly knows more); or say when they have a problem (like at work) but just stew until they explode and walk off job (opposite of israeli who explode right away) causing numerous screw ups between employers and employees....

when personal things happen, they never seem to discuss it with anyone.but keep it all inside; these guys are living w/eachother for two years and still not everyone knows how many kids they have, etc etc.... i've watched thai meeting eachother in the city and the conversation involves 'where are u working?, how much do you make ? is the employer jai di?; what area are u frm in thailand? and thats it.... israelis start with: how much money, etc, but zoom in on, are u married, how many kids, etc etc...

[Khun Ngo]

About directions, I've learned the hard way that Thai taxi drivers will NEVEr say they don't know where this or that place is. ...

Well they will. You got to do it the right way:

Do not straight enter the taxi.

Do open the front door, stick your head in and ask the driver " Pai --------- mai?"

He will then say yes or no. If the answer is no, it mostly means that he doesn't know

the way. In that case you might offer him to give directions.

[Phil Conners]

I think it must be something in the water. The dogs do the same. Stand or sleep in the middle of a busy soi and don't batter an eyelid even if you're about to drive over them.

[johnnyk]

Face is very important, so admitting you don't know is loss of face.

I think the education system also encourages rote learning and not thinking through a problem to solve it.

I'm not a logician but isn't there something about westerners using a linear logic and Asians (and others) using a circular logic?

An Asian friend once pointed out to me that in a western letter the meat is up front but in an Asian letter the most important stuff is near the bottom of the page.

Only thing I know is that when I'm in LoS, I'm not going to change their thinking, it's up to me to adapt. Makes life easier if I do.

[Lancelot]

About directions, I've learned the hard way that Thai taxi drivers will NEVEr say they don't know where this or that place is. ...

Do open the front door, stick your head in and ask the driver " Pai --------- mai?"

He will then say yes or no. If the answer is no, it mostly means that he doesn't know

the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Khun Ngo, yes, that is the way I do it. I always try to be polite, but when I get the "blank" look, I just move on to the next taxi.

[Jai Dee]

I told her in the beginning :"if you ask, your chance of a positive answer is 50% yes, 50% no - if you don't ask, its 100% no"

Good approach chico.

I'll try that one myself.

But I still maintain that in order to effectively communicate, you must be aware of the "face" issue and try to think and thus communicate like them.

[chico]

[but I still maintain that in order to effectively communicate, you must be aware of the "face" issue and try to think and thus communicate like them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're absolutely right, but that's the very hard part (at least for me) since thai interpretation of face is so opposed to my usual way of thinking - but "learning by doing!"

[Harmonica]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

 

Another attempt at bashing Thais? ... albeit well-disguised!

Well if you think that is bashing Thais it means you either cannot read or you cannot answer the questions

I speak Thai fluently, and my wife is no slouch when it comes to English, but we talk about this on and on, trying to find out whether it is 'language' or 'culture'. Yes of course Thai as a language constructs the world differently, and yes the whole issue of manners and troubling people is very real.

There is no imputation of better or worse ways of being/thinking/doing here. I would really like to understand from all your experiences whether there are different 'cognitive' or other explanations..or whether it is simple language deficient misunderstanding. Austin Coates, whom I admire..magistrate in HK, in Myself a Mandarin p39/40 says that Chinese people think Westerners ..."waste mental energy and are incoherent...while Chinese people are self centred to a point of being unsystematic...neither quite right he says.

Yes amigo, I think it is Thai bashing

And I shall repeat -- well disguised!

And now for some free advice -- wake up amigo and stop bitching about the little stuff!

Then come and have a beer with me, my treat!

[srisatch]

hello ?? reality check here??

my humble opinion of american and israeli MEN is that they never never never will ask for directions but prefer to drive in circle forever and curse until they find their way;

shopping?  all the thai men ive seen shopping will drag me for miles thruough the 'shuk' (market) checking prices for hot peppers or cow innards before we go back to , yep! ., original place to buy same.....

but thai will not ask questions of doctors (shy, or in deference to someone who supposedly knows more); or say when they have a problem (like at work) but just stew until they explode and walk off job (opposite of israeli who explode right away) causing numerous screw ups between employers and employees....

when personal things happen, they never seem to discuss it with anyone.but keep it all inside; these guys are living w/eachother for two years and still not everyone knows how many kids they have, etc etc.... i've watched thai meeting eachother in the city and the conversation involves 'where are u working?, how much do you make ? is the employer  jai di?; what area are u frm in thailand?  and thats it.... israelis start with: how much money, etc, but zoom in on, are u married, how many kids, etc  etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh! I think you are quite right about western guys not asking-particularly directions when driving

I was nervous of raising any kind of gender aspect; but I think the still relatively serious suppression of women may have something to do with it, as much through the education system as the family. And the repression of the feelings of boys is strong. too. Striking things I see:...little boy crying, mother wields coat hanger saying Ngyap..stop crying and thrashes him 'til he stops...no inquiry into why..no wonder I meet a lot of smiling, seething people.

I'm not much the wiser about this. Westerners seem to be feeding off a whole host of external stimuli, which can be very tedious and tiring, while many Thais I meet seem quite cut/shut off from those things. My wife says I think too much and talk too much!

[aaaaaa]

....My wife says I think too much and talk too much!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh, yours too? mine tells me this all the time, especially whenever she don't wanna continue the suject in which she'll not 'win' what's more - she tells me I'm not a man - coz I talk too much !

but I know it is not only her. I've heard many times from many ppls - khit mak mak ! as if once one stops thinking - it automatically solves all the problems. I wonder now - is mai pen rai related to khit mak mak - like if one doesn't 'think too much' then everything becomes 'never mind' ?

seems to be a cool philosophy of ganja smokers !

last night though she surprised me by showing me few of her drawnings, she said that everyone has some ways of expressing what is inside, and for her it is in painting. so, I think Thais also do have external stimulis, one of which is watching endless TV shows I think and even simply news ....

but not all and always supress their feelings and emotions. real recent story comes to mind. few weeks back around 3am 2 guys with long knifes (or parangs or whatever) chased another guy into our appartment and slashed him badly. many people got out of their beds and doors to watch, my wife too witnessed. and nobody dared to interfer. even after those attackers left and the victim lied in the pool of blood screaming in pain (yeah, still alive) - some people finally started to try doing somethin, especially couple of women who went to scold the security guys for letting this thing happen ,and then call the police, taxi and medics - they did wahtever was reasonable and natural to do at that moment. and the main thing why I'm telling all this - these two women didn't try to supress their emotions, they yelled at security guards and in general at all the people who stared around and reproached them for their passiveness and aloftness from the whole situation.

so not all and always are inert or "mai pen rai" minded here. but yes - it is in much bigger amount here than in the West and even in some other asian countries around this region.

[bina]

i;m wondering if the

aloftness from the whole situation.

is a throw back of budhism to be not attached to anything since nothing is permanent (that is detatched, not neccessarily because of pure cold heartedness or lack of caring)

I wonder now - is mai pen rai related to khit mak mak - like if one doesn't 'think too much' then everything becomes 'never mind' ? what? not obvious?

i'm always being told that i 'kit mak mak'....and it causes headaches....

[chico]

head on!!!

three very important points!!!

[Face is very important, so admitting you don't know is loss of face.

I think the education system also encourages rote learning and not thinking through a problem to solve it.

but many westerners too think that the best way to solve a problem is to let it solve himself - although not the most successful people

I'm not a logician but isn't there something about westerners using a linear logic and Asians (and others) using a circular logic?

the advantage is, that westerners can reroute to circular logic if linear doesn' do them any good, whereas (average) thais onlu think linear

An Asian friend once pointed out to me that in a western letter the meat is up front but in an Asian letter the most important stuff is near the bottom of the page.

when thais start a conversation/letter/negotiation, they always start with a little story about something, and after some time, just casyally, come to the point - chinese I believe are the experts in this

Only thing I know is that when I'm in LoS, I'm not going to change their thinking, it's up to me to adapt. Makes life easier if I do.

if every farang would (and could) do this, there would be none to very little problems!!

[Phil Conners]

An Asian friend once pointed out to me that in a western letter the meat is up front but in an Asian letter the most important stuff is near the bottom of the page.

I don't know, and (American) lawyer-friend of mine always says he always read contracts back to front to get the interesting bits first

[Erwin1011]

There is certainly a difference in thinking between westeners and non westeners. We tend to think in causal relationships (Linear), one step leads to another in cause and effect.

Non westeners think on simultanious relationships, if things happen at the same moment ,then a relationship exists between them.

I think it was the german philosopher Kant, who was the first to notice this and tried to combine them. to some other philosophers this has ultimately resulted in the development of the quantum theories.

I specifically say non westeners, as this type of logic is not only found with with Asians, but also with Africans,American Indians etc.

you would expect however, that the type of linear logic we use would lead to more single mindedness than the other.

[Jai Dee]

i'm always being told that  i 'kit mak mak'....and it causes headaches....

Me too!

But if people from a Western background and culture think with "linear" logic, how would you describe the logic used by Asians, and Thais in particular?

Circular?

Tangential?

Associative?

Any other mathematical terms that come to mind?

and...

Once you've categorized the logic, how best to deal with it?

[srisatch]

....My wife says I think too much and talk too much!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh, yours too? mine tells me this all the time, especially whenever she don't wanna continue the suject in which she'll not 'win' what's more - she tells me I'm not a man - coz I talk too much !

but I know it is not only her. I've heard many times from many ppls - khit mak mak ! as if once one stops thinking - it automatically solves all the problems. I wonder now - is mai pen rai related to khit mak mak - like if one doesn't 'think too much' then everything becomes 'never mind' ?

seems to be a cool philosophy of ganja smokers !

last night though she surprised me by showing me few of her drawnings, she said that everyone has some ways of expressing what is inside, and for her it is in painting. so, I think Thais also do have external stimulis, one of which is watching endless TV shows I think and even simply news ....

but not all and always supress their feelings and emotions. real recent story comes to mind. few weeks back around 3am 2 guys with long knifes (or parangs or whatever) chased another guy into our appartment and slashed him badly. many people got out of their beds and doors to watch, my wife too witnessed. and nobody dared to interfer. even after those attackers left and the victim lied in the pool of blood screaming in pain (yeah, still alive) - some people finally started to try doing somethin, especially couple of women who went to scold the security guys for letting this thing happen ,and then call the police, taxi and medics - they did wahtever was reasonable and natural to do at that moment. and the main thing why I'm telling all this - these two women didn't try to supress their emotions, they yelled at security guards and in general at all the people who stared around and reproached them for their passiveness and aloftness from the whole situation.

so not all and always are inert or "mai pen rai" minded here. but yes - it is in much bigger amount here than in the West and even in some other asian countries around this region.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you live in an exciting place!

I think it is connected too to Aray Go Dai..and Tahm jai.. Anything goes and Up to You,.

Do you want to go to Mae Sot..Up to you...We go...

Do you want to stay the night /eat/go to the market...Aray Go Dai..

Shall we stay the night? Stay OK, Go home OK,

Shall we go and stay in the Mae Sot Hills..It is nice.

How much? I don't know maybe 1500B

No! Too expensive. Let's go home.

In other words these are things that YOU should be thinking about and making decisions about. I have other things on my mind!

[chico]

But if people from a Western background and culture think with "linear" logic, how would you describe the logic used by Asians, and Thais in particular?

Circular?

Tangential?

Associative?

Any other mathematical terms that come to mind?

"intuitif" or "feminin" would be western words,

Jean Paul Sartre would probably formulate : the hypothetic use of non-existant missings"

and...

Once you've categorized the logic, how best to deal with it?

- the asian way : SMILE

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[bina]

you describe the logic used by Asians, and Thais in particular?

circumnavigational (is that the word? or something similar to it) ; its what looks like random movement but actually its just a different way to get some place although not always the direct way..... unfortunately israelis are even more straight to the point then americans which means even americans think we have no tact... (we dont) ... the tahm jai idea doesnt exist at all , everyone will disagree very loudly and nastily..... put the israeli mentality (super confrontational) with the thai (tahm jai)and u get a lot of one sided fireworks w/ thai airports workers smiling and more or less ignoring frenzied israeli tourists (watched my fellow passengers in bangkok airport one day)..... sometimes i'm shocked by questions/requests from thai that have been working here for 8-10 years.... they sound just like their israeli bosses and so un thai that it catches me un awares

the navajo go circular.....

[chico]

....My wife says I think too much and talk too much!

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oh, yours too? mine tells me this all the time, especially whenever she don't wanna continue the suject in which she'll not 'win' what's more - she tells me I'm not a man - coz I talk too much !

but I know it is not only her. I've heard many times from many ppls - khit mak mak ! as if once one stops thinking - it automatically solves all the problems. I wonder now - is mai pen rai related to khit mak mak - like if one doesn't 'think too much' then everything becomes 'never mind' ?

seems to be a cool philosophy of ganja smokers !

last night though she surprised me by showing me few of her drawnings, she said that everyone has some ways of expressing what is inside, and for her it is in painting. so, I think Thais also do have external stimulis, one of which is watching endless TV shows I think and even simply news ....

but not all and always supress their feelings and emotions. real recent story comes to mind. few weeks back around 3am 2 guys with long knifes (or parangs or whatever) chased another guy into our appartment and slashed him badly. many people got out of their beds and doors to watch, my wife too witnessed. and nobody dared to interfer. even after those attackers left and the victim lied in the pool of blood screaming in pain (yeah, still alive) - some people finally started to try doing somethin, especially couple of women who went to scold the security guys for letting this thing happen ,and then call the police, taxi and medics - they did wahtever was reasonable and natural to do at that moment. and the main thing why I'm telling all this - these two women didn't try to supress their emotions, they yelled at security guards and in general at all the people who stared around and reproached them for their passiveness and aloftness from the whole situation.

so not all and always are inert or "mai pen rai" minded here. but yes - it is in much bigger amount here than in the West and even in some other asian countries around this region.

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Well you live in an exciting place!

I think it is connected too to Aray Go Dai..and Tahm jai.. Anything goes and Up to You,.

Do you want to go to Mae Sot..Up to you...We go...

Do you want to stay the night /eat/go to the market...Aray Go Dai..

Shall we stay the night? Stay OK, Go home OK,

Shall we go and stay in the Mae Sot Hills..It is nice.

How much? I don't know maybe 1500B

No! Too expensive. Let's go home.

In other words these are things that YOU should be thinking about and making decisions about. I have other things on my mind!

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mine has found something to top this :

question : you want coffee or tea? - answer : yes!

what, coffee or tea? - yes, ok - and then I give up and have a beer myself!