Convicted Of Cussing; Brit Offender Burrowes To Get Free Tcket Home

[simon43]

Patsycat said:

I also had a passport that had fallen into a puddle

What did your passport photo look like after that?

Edited May 20, 2009 by simon43

[Electra]

^ Another realist, world traveler...

If it appropriate to gauge folk by the company they keep then I suppose it is also a reasonable basis to judge forum posters by the posts they endorse. In which case, our redoubtable Sri Racha John may well be somewhat less discerning than his own ego evidently suggests.

Quite how he can endorse a view expressed by someone who so obviously cannot analyse even the most basic of information, and yet seemingly can display the prodigious feat of conducting a forgery examination through the medium of a photograph depicted on a website, is quite beyond me and, probably, him too. Trouble is, the chap can't see it.

[sriracha john]

If you don't think this is a dodgy-looking passport photo that would arouse suspicion with most immigration officials in most countries, then you haven't seen enough normal passport photos.

[Thaddeus]

If you don't think this is a dodgy-looking passport photo that would arouse suspicion with most immigration officials in most countries, then you haven't seen enough normal passport photos.

Agreed.

That picture belongs on a muay thai poster ...... in a passport, any immigration official, anywhere in the world is going to go 'hmmmmmm'

[GungaDin]

If you don't think this is a dodgy-looking passport photo that would arouse suspicion with most immigration officials in most countries, then you haven't seen enough normal passport photos.

If only!

[CFIT]

I really don't see why people are assuming this is about race. I saw the picture in his passport and thought it looked fake. It also looks like he has no clue how to prepare for an international flight. Him missing his first flight was entirely his fault. He should have arrived at the airport early enough to account for unexpected delays.

Right you are there, Burrowes is a stupid fool .

Everyone knows you should arrive at the airport at least 2 months ahead of your domestic flight , just in case the Immigration bureau is staffed with bigots biased against your skin colour, as well as your Embassy - in addition to Embasssy staff being incapable of making an overseas phone call when happy hour is approaching on a Friday.

Jeez ...

Edited May 21, 2009 by CFIT

[Dakhar]

I really don't see why people are assuming this is about race. I saw the picture in his passport and thought it looked fake. It also looks like he has no clue how to prepare for an international flight. Him missing his first flight was entirely his fault. He should have arrived at the airport early enough to account for unexpected delays.

Right you are there, Burrowes is a stupid fool .

Everyone knows you should arrive at the airport at least 2 months ahead of your domestic flight , just in case the Immigration bureau is staffed with bigots biased against your skin colour, as well as your Embassy - in addition to Embasssy staff being incapable of making an overseas phone call when happy hour is approaching on a Friday.

Jeez ...

.... and I endorse this

[CFIT]

But one can understand the problems it would bring when a large black man starts screaming and being abuse to a small Thai woman...or would you like it any other way?

So it seems it really was ALL about his skin colour.

But he didn't, and even if so,what does her size and sex have to do with it? She's an officer in the Royal Thai military/police, she shouldn't need protecting from words

.

Ofcourse skin-color plays a part. It always does.

But it is minor when a huge abusive man yells at a small immigration officer woman...

" It always does..." ?

( Yeah, when you're a bigot .)

It wasn't, "minor" in your initial statement

You don't even see your own bigotry, do you? It is so ingrained within your expectations -the fact that he is black is more threatening in your view.

You're Thai, aren't you ?

Edited May 21, 2009 by CFIT

[TAWP]

But one can understand the problems it would bring when a large black man starts screaming and being abuse to a small Thai woman...or would you like it any other way?

So it seems it really was ALL about his skin colour.

But he didn't, and even if so,what does her size and sex have to do with it? She's an officer in the Royal Thai military/police, she shouldn't need protecting from words

.

Ofcourse skin-color plays a part. It always does.

But it is minor when a huge abusive man yells at a small immigration officer woman...

" It always does..." ?

( Yeah, when you're a bigot .)

It wasn't, "minor" in your initial statement

You don't even see your own bigotry, do you? It is so ingrained within your expectations -the fact that he is black is more threatening in your view.

You're Thai, aren't you ?

And you are a buffoon, aren't you?

To claim skin color always have some level of impact all over the world isn't being bigot, it's being a realist.

But in this case it wasn't the Major issue, even if ut probably help compound his problems, as he is a big guy, well trained, raising his voice and shouting abuse to a small, petite, woman.

Ofcourse he would have the hel_l-hammer brought down on him, it is to be expected.

It's not fair, since the embassy was the original faulty party, but it is being a realist.

[farseer]

So it seems it really was ALL about his skin colour.

But he didn't, and even if so,what does her size and sex have to do with it? She's an officer in the Royal Thai military/police, she shouldn't need protecting from words

.

Ofcourse skin-color plays a part. It always does.

Talk privately to Thais and they will admit that they do not like black skinned people, and especially black skinned foreigners.

[Texpat]

And loud-mouthed tourists trying to intimidate and lord over them.

I wouldn't pay to see Burrowes fight, but I would pay to see the exchange at the immi counter.

[thai1]

While not in any way condoning the treatment meted out to Mr Burroughs, this case simply highlights the fact that when living in and travelling within a third world country, it behoves foreigners to behave at all times in an exempliary manner, especially when dealing with people in authority, and even more especially when dealing with those who have the power to incarcerate, or delay your departure.

It's only common sense. Losing you temper will get you nowhere, and simply inflame the situation.

Wasn't it in Phuket a couple of years ago that some Asian tourists (Korean I think) were refused entry to Thailand for being loud and rude when queueing up at immigration.

For those who are unable to keep their tempers under control, then they had better stay at home.

Irrelevant. The initial imprisonment was for a false passport.....duh. But if it makes you feel smug...........

[thai1]

After pointing a finger at the officer's face and shouting, "Give me back my [expletive deleted] passport you [expletive deleted] bitch," Mr Burrowes snatched the passport back from the officer and walked away from the counter."

Well this is shocking, what is the source for this information? For months Simon claimed he said something completely different that was not an insult aimed directly at the officials. Was he lying or is this information wrong?

Go figure . This is also the latest version. Shocking ? Sad

[thai1]

I really don't see why people are assuming this is about race. I saw the picture in his passport and thought it looked fake. It also looks like he has no clue how to prepare for an international flight. Him missing his first flight was entirely his fault. He should have arrived at the airport early enough to account for unexpected delays. Because of this mistake he became more than just rude, his behavior in snatching his passport back from the officer was completely unacceptable. Had he not said a word, this action alone should have landed him in jail. He missed his second flight because he again didn't have a clue regarding his visa.

For those who think it is all about race, I have a white Australian friend who gets additional questioning when arriving in the US. The reason, his passport looks suspicious because it had gotten wet in the past. For those that didn't get it, if you have a suspicious looking passport, plan for additional time at the airport regardless of your race or country of origin.

My friend was just waiting for a time between travel long enough that will allow him to get a replacement passport. I bet this guy will get back to the UK and not consider getting a new passport as his "is a valid travel document". My friend's is as well, but he knows it is in *his* best interest to replace it with one that hadn't been through a rain storm. This guy should consider wearing a shirt and being square to the camera for his next passport photo so he won't have such issues again.

Do you have difficulties processing simple information ? The passport is apparantly nine years old with 17 checkpoint history. 00.30 thereby doesn't make it too late to arrive for a 01.50 flight . Gather your facts. The behaviour prompting the passport snatching was unacceptable. You'd have noted this if you weren't so deliberately selective for the sake of finger pointing. 'Action, alone, jail'... the charge was a false passport. Second flight? after two months on bail immigration held Mr Burrowes because a stop to Bangkok would have required a stamped visa or an explanation for it's abscence. Though almost fined for being incarcerated for a false passport Phuket airport do not have the procedures in place to explain to Bangkok the status of a given individual. Burrowes fault ? or inefficiency; like your researching.

Your white friend; so what. What has additional questioning got to do with missing a flight and being laughed at after an hour. Do you think you can decipher the difference ? New passport ? The passport is apparently in tatters having been illegally pulled apart by clusters of backward Thai opportunists, doubtless convinced they were on to something . Maybe you should work with them.

Btw shirtless photos are unorthodox not illegal, idiot

[BboyRusty]

It seems people dont seem to realise that it is only the past few years that passport picture requirements have been tightened up somewhat! My last passport which would still have been in date, Ok maybe not, it ran out on 11th May has my eyes looking to the side (similar to when the police used to take your pic and they said look at the star) Also it is not a fullly square on picture. Yes I am wearing a shirt but that is not the point I am making.

Burrowes, on the other hand. was totally innocent but was pulled, accused and held in prison for far longer than was necessary because he was black.

Didn't his highly suspect passport photo have something to do with his being pulled aside and questioned?

Possibly, but only if you are so intellectually challenged or institutionally hidebound by a racial prejudice that you actually conclude that an apparent state of undress depicted in the photograph is sufficient evidence of forgery and that as a consequence it was not original to the document in which it was contained.

Had it been presented by any one of the thousands of white tourists passing through immigration at Phuket airport it would be a racing certainty the outcome would have been altogether different.

So a highly unusual passport photo of a shirtless man taken from an unusual angle and doesn't match the normal standard of the thousands of passport photos that pass in front of immigration every day wouldn't arouse suspicion as to its authenticity..

except if it's a black man involved???

I find that impossible to believe.

[thai1]

She didn't need protecting.

She slapped his ass in the pokey right quick.

It transpires she's the office menace that they tip toe around . On the day she'd had a split in the family and she's uptight anyway. Don't believe me ? ask Phuket international staff about Pornpatsorn Charuthas. Taking the mick is a mite too easy

[thai1]

I would imagine immigration officers around Thailand look at thousands -- tens of thousands -- of passports daily.

Of that number, there is likely more than a few "suspect" passports that give them pause every day.

I'm confident that if Burrowes hadn't bowed up on the immigration officer and remained calm without his outburst, the incident would never have escalated and he would have been home weeks ago.

Som nam naa.

You can be confident all day but you weren't there. Two immigration officials have stated that the outburst charge was compiled as a red herring because of the initial 12 days of incarceration over a passport. Weeks ago schmeeksago. Going to jail for incompetance matters

[thai1]

if you guys can just get past the fact that he is black and look at the problem.

they thought there was a problem with his passport ][real or made up] and no matter what happened, right or wrong, he cursed them with an aggressive attitude. please name the country that wouldn't bring you in a back room and discuss it. Doesnt matter if you think he is going to jail, more cursing and attitude, more time.

i have a shaved head, not by choice but because i am hair challenged and this is the best alternative. i have stood in many lines at the airport and watched the immigration officers being polite, sometimes friendly, sometimes with a smile to people in front of me. when i get there I don't get the same treatment. I smile, try to look small, speak a bit of polite Thai but most of the time they are very curt, never smile and sometimes a bit rude. I have been pulled out of line and questioned for 20 minutes before. In every instance I am polite, keep smiling and never rude or question why they did it. Probably because they think i am a skinhead [no tattoos, dress well] and stereotype me. I just go with the flow and it all ends well. I am sure that if I answered back or cursed it would not go well for me. It is not always easy but in the end I win, I am here and free.

this guy, right or wrong, felt he had a point to make, and made it badly. Was it because he was black? who cares, if they are prejudiced then that is all the more reason bend over and take it, It is my advice because you will never win this way, anywhere, any country. If you don't like the way they are going to treat you don't come or grin and bear it. Right or wrong, it is their country and they make the rules. I don't condone either the immigration or the guy doing the cursing, but i know who wins in the end.

Do you think Burrowes would've come here if he had any idea he'd be treated like that. Come on mate, enough of the cliches already. In any case, the charge was a false passport which makes your last paragraph superflous

[thai1]

If you don't think this is a dodgy-looking passport photo that would arouse suspicion with most immigration officials in most countries, then you haven't seen enough normal passport photos.

Agreed.

That picture belongs on a muay thai poster ...... in a passport, any immigration official, anywhere in the world is going to go 'hmmmmmm'

hmmmmmmm, let's colaborate our joint professional scrutiny for an hour in this highly technological era of computers. Hmmmmm let's study it for a further 2 hours while our superior scrutinises him. Hmmmmm, let's lock him up

[thai1]

While not in any way condoning the treatment meted out to Mr Burroughs, this case simply highlights the fact that when living in and travelling within a third world country, it behoves foreigners to behave at all times in an exempliary manner, especially when dealing with people in authority, and even more especially when dealing with those who have the power to incarcerate, or delay your departure.

It's only common sense. Losing you temper will get you nowhere, and simply inflame the situation.

Wasn't it in Phuket a couple of years ago that some Asian tourists (Korean I think) were refused entry to Thailand for being loud and rude when queueing up at immigration.

For those who are unable to keep their tempers under control, then they had better stay at home.

everybody seems to be biting the red herring. Burrowes was imprisoned for a false passpot, forget exemplary behaviour whilst being humiliated and patting yourself on the back after

[thai1]

"As officers tried to verify the passport, Mr Burrowes realized his non-refundable flight would take to the skies without him.

He then became angry and abusive toward the female immigration officer holding his passport.

After pointing a finger at the officer's face and shouting, "Give me back my [expletive deleted] passport you [expletive deleted] bitch," Mr Burrowes snatched the passport back from the officer and walked away from the counter."

any country, name it......................................

terrible to miss the flight and I can see why he got really angry but...................................he got what he deserved....... in my wildest nightmare i couldnt imagine doing it and would expect the same or worse.

Press mis-information. That sentence wasn't said at all. So he got what you would like to think he deserved

[thai1]

"As officers tried to verify the passport, Mr Burrowes realized his non-refundable flight would take to the skies without him.

He then became angry and abusive toward the female immigration officer holding his passport.

After pointing a finger at the officer's face and shouting, "Give me back my [expletive deleted] passport you [expletive deleted] bitch," Mr Burrowes snatched the passport back from the officer and walked away from the counter."

any country, name it......................................

terrible to miss the flight and I can see why he got really angry but...................................he got what he deserved....... in my wildest nightmare i couldnt imagine doing it and would expect the same or worse.

Press mis-information. That sentence wasn't said at all. So he got what you would like to think he deserved

[thai1]

"As officers tried to verify the passport, Mr Burrowes realized his non-refundable flight would take to the skies without him.

He then became angry and abusive toward the female immigration officer holding his passport.

After pointing a finger at the officer's face and shouting, "Give me back my [expletive deleted] passport you [expletive deleted] bitch," Mr Burrowes snatched the passport back from the officer and walked away from the counter."

any country, name it......................................

terrible to miss the flight and I can see why he got really angry but...................................he got what he deserved....... in my wildest nightmare i couldnt imagine doing it and would expect the same or worse.

Press mis-information. That sentence wasn't said at all. So he got what you would like to think he deserved

[thai1]

Conclusion:

As traversing the globe entails any number of potential pitfalls, not everyone is cut out to be a world traveler.

What a pompous statement!

Seems the board is populated with elitists , too.

So, you are actually arguing Mr. Burrowes skin colour had NOTHING to do with his ordeal and it was his fault that his legally issued passport wasn't up to Thai standards ( or at least one Thai's standard..)?

Factual, not pompous.

Realist, not elitist.

I'm not arguing anything, but simply pointing out that given his presentation with a suspect passport followed by aggressive action, the subsequent events that befell him could occur to a person of any color.

Part of being world traveler is having responsibility for educating oneself and in many areas, this was sorely lacking. Yes, others were involved in his predicament, but I don't absolve him of his own role in it.

The bonafide passport has a nine year history. The staff held him for an hour, laughed at him when he asked for an explanation and didn't find his details on a computer. He was not dragged away screaming but spent two hours quote 'getting on' witha superior who finally made the arrest. At what point are you going to commit your argument to some-one's doorstep

[thai1]

While Mr. Burrows could have shown more restraint in expressing his displeasure, the Thai authorities could also have shown a bit of tolerance. Holding him to the last possible minute, then hustling him onboard his (original) flight might have gotten their message across.

Yes, we all know "This is Thailand" and that we must respect Thai authority, but do those same authorities ever think about the negative image Thailand is sending the world?

... Sadly, I think they just don't care.

before we start having a go at Thai immigration cause they are such an easy target, lets re-read the one of the few sensible posts about this from the scouser...

They are a target because they scrutinised the passport for an hour, then another two hours, tghen instigated an arrest. Mr Burrowes was informed the next day of the embassy's lack of finding. The two bodies are both at fault

from: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Brit-Faces-Y...14#entry2687514

..... the catalyst was the couldn't-care-less attitude of the embassy official who didn't want to delay his early dart on a Friday.

In response to the previous poster who suggests that it is of no concern to the Thai authorities that someone is trying to leave on a potentially forged/counterfeit document, I would only say that s/he has little understanding of the way these things truly work. If a document were to be either forged or counterfeit, and this were to be detected by the UK immigration authorities, the holder would be on a flight straight back to Thailand, whereupon it would be the Thai authorities' problem. They may as well deal with a perceived problem at source, rather than a day later.

Unfortunately, as already established, it was the British embassy bloke who created the whole problem.

SNAFU!

and it was the britsh consul who failed to use common sense in the matter, or even bother to try and do something about it, not the thai immigration officer....

The scouser again:

... In my immigration days, it was indeed through the medium of a simple interview that we would initially determine someone's entitlement to a British passport. It was only once suspicions had arisen that certainty would be established through forgery analysis of the passport.

As "Electra" states, albeit rather obliquely, if the bloke not only speaks with a British accent, but has a geographical awareness of where he purports to live, coupled with general knowledge of the UK, all of which can be established in the course of 5-minute chat, then the chances are he's a Brit. If, on the other hand, he speaks with, for example, a broad West African accent, thinks Big Ben is in Glasgow, and that Tony Blair is the Queen, the chances are he's not a Brit. There you go - problem solved without even looking at the passport.

[thai1]

Once he became obnoxious, jail was inevitable.

If he had one ounce of self control, he, in all liklihood, could have reasoned with them, proved his identity through other means.

If you've been in Thailand more than a week, you learn that losing your cool will get you nowhere.

Evidently he missed that lesson.

"I was angry. I grabbed my passport and walked out of the immigration area, saying, 'I am a British citizen who has come to your country to spend my money. Don't treat me like a 'f**king idiot.'"

What a tw@. Sadly, he sounds like a lot of TV posters who think spending money here allows for special rights, liberties and privileges.

How ruthless. You obviously read his account as you've quoted it; albeit edited to with a bit of a sentence from here (I grabbed my passport) and another from there (saying "I'm a british....."). The editorial doesn't say that at all. How have you become such a low life.

You must also have read that he took out so much i.d that it was considered suspect by the arresting officer. You are shockingly shameless, but then you are anonymous. You are scum and as an expat I am embarrassed

[thai1]

His flight has been paid for by an anonymous Thai benefactor who wants to demonstrate to the world that Thailand is a far more pleasant place than the Burrowes case has made it seem.

...or just wants to get rid of the uppity bugger.

of course; to the tune of what 5oo quid in baht ? wise aren't you

[thai1]

an international forum on which few of the participants are American

I am sure that is wrong. I recall reading most hits here are from the USA.

Look, if you didn't know this already (HARD TO BELIEVE) we are telling you the use of the word uppity when applied to a BLACK MAN is offensive and racist, and yet you don't apologize for it, but defend it and want to continue using it. There are different levels of offensiveness, racist implications being rather high. Again, agree to disagree, I think your position is ARROGANT and insensitive. Enough said. This may be shocking to you, but Americans are not the only nationality capable of arrogance.

BTW, back to the context of the usage here:

...or just wants to get rid of the uppity bugger.

does that sound like a friendly comment to you?

stop pretending to be naive

It's so funny that you are calling other people arrogant...lol

Here's the situation:

- You say a word is offensive in a certain sourthern American vernacular

- Many other people have told you that it's actually not offensive in England and other parts of the world.

- Yet you are still insisting that everyone adhere to your local interpretation of the word?

What is that if it's not arrogant?

What will be next you demanding we all start calling Jam as Jelly, and plasters as band-aids? And he wasn't in jail he was in a Hooscow?

[thai1]

Good, Mr Burrowes has done his little hard time in the slammer, now just deport the FOUL mouth Rascal

That shows how intelligent you are in one sentence

[thai1]

You are being silly. The fact that he is already in Thailand is not evidence that said passport is real. It did not work, the phone call or whateve back up plan to checking a passport also failed. He is shirtless in the passport photo... How could they have let him go through?... Once he decided to break the law, the passport issue becomes a secondary matter. At the end of the day, we are subjected to the results of our personal choices.

by your closing statement it sounds as though you sanction their use of another charge to justify their passport arresr mistake as an act of fate