Foreigners Opinions On Thai Working Culture

[Oberkommando]

I allow them to arrive late because I was with them the night before till late, so I know. If they are MSN-ing during the day, I don't care because they finish their work on time. Why worry about the small stuff?

Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

Turning up late and not working is showing you respect?

Sounds like they are taking advantage of you.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Oberkommando

[GuestHouse]

I have worked in Thailand for over 20 years, always in Thai organizations and companies. .......

Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

At last, someone not talking out of that part they normally reserve for keeping a bar stool warm.

[freitag1]

Good list I agree with it. I have worked here and had to supervise Thai staff and made similar experiences.

[Scott]

I have worked in 16 different countries in management/administrative positions mostly. Every culture has it's quirks and problems. Thailand, however, has more quirks and problems than most. It's a nice place to live, but not the easiest place to work.

[Oberkommando]

I have worked in Thailand for over 20 years, always in Thai organizations and companies. .......

Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

At last, someone not talking out of that part they normally reserve for keeping a bar stool warm.

Yes, because everyone that disagrees with you must be someone who "has no experience of working with Thais", a "Bar Stool Pundit", or "someone who needs to run down Thais."

Quotes from your earlier post.

[Morris]

I worked as a project manager for 2 years some time back. It was one of the most frustrating times in my professional career.

THE most frustrating aspect that I found was the almost complete inability to make a finite decision.

They are so afraid of making the wrong one; they will do anything to avoid this. I think it comes from a culture of "if they make a mistake, they are personally libel for that mistake.

Have you ever seen how the 7/11 girl will count out your change 2 or 3 times? That’s because she will be libel for any shortfall in the till. This culture is spread right through the Thai workforce and causes incredible delays in production.

A simple example of what I mean is;

One time several trades were being held up for weeks by the slow progress of laying floor tiles in concourse 2. When I investigated I found out that every single tile was counted 2 or 3 times before it went out of the factory onto the truck. Then they are counted again when they are unloaded. They are then counted again when they are distributed to the site shed and then again when they are distributed to the tile layers. Not only are they counted they are checked for any chips or cracks. When they finally get to the trades men they handle them like they are blocks of gold and if any are chipped or cracked when they are laid, they will pay from their wages.

Can you imagine the delays this would cause? This is the same right throughout the construction process. It is the main reason construction time lines get drawn out to obscene proportions.

And the really weird thing is, they cannot see anything wrong with this!

Another thing they tend to do is lie, ALL THE TIME. I have sat in countless meetings and they will look you right in the eye and tell you porkies about completion times, progress etc and if you challenge them they act like you just insulted their Mum!

Anyone who has worked in Thai construction will know what I am talking about.

Don't take this too personally, but surely if you've been managing a team for two years and you can't get them to perform then haven't you failed as a manager?

I take it you've heard the expression "a worker blaming his tools".

Move over and let someone else have a go.

This is all experience with working with Thai's. IF you look at the Thai perspective. You're still a guest here in their country. A country which unlike most neighboring countries has never been taken over or conquered by any foreign country. THat leaves some pride, which is embedded in the Thai. You as a foreigner have no right to change anything in this country. You can also not take advantage of the Thai's. This counts for most Thai's especially in Bangkok, who carry a sort of proudness that will never go away until they study abroad, and witness that their education is worth nothing more then a secondary degree abroad. Only then they become part of the global world and a global way of viewing both work and education. BUt once they've been abroad they mostly never return, and especially not to work for foreigners in their own country....

[Oberkommando]

This is all experience with working with Thai's. IF you look at the Thai perspective. You're still a guest here in their country. A country which unlike most neighboring countries has never been taken over or conquered by any foreign country.

Not including the Japanese in WWII.

[Oberkommando]

You can also not take advantage of the Thai's.

Chinese seem to have done rather well, considering they de facto run the country.

[GuestHouse]

I have worked in Thailand for over 20 years, always in Thai organizations and companies. .......

Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

At last, someone not talking out of that part they normally reserve for keeping a bar stool warm.

Yes, because everyone that disagrees with you must be someone who "has no experience of working with Thais", a "Bar Stool Pundit", or "someone who needs to run down Thais."

Quotes from your earlier post.

Please, let's complete the set ... I also included expats who run down Thais in order to justify their own positions...... And I also drew the comparison between a manager blaming his staff and a worker blaming his tools.

If you'll have the good grace to include those in my quotes then we can agree, that is what I said.

[Morris]

You can also not take advantage of the Thai's.

Chinese seem to have done rather well, considering they de facto run the country.

Because they're not seen as FARANG. I never heard any thai say FARANG to Chinese people, because they know where they come from, so it's Chinese people.

It's the FARANG (Impossible to see from which country they come, at least by asians) who should keep away. hahaha

Edited May 17, 2009 by Morris

[Hanimal]

I allow them to arrive late because I was with them the night before till late, so I know. If they are MSN-ing during the day, I don't care because they finish their work on time. Why worry about the small stuff? Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

Turning up late and not working is showing you respect? Sounds like they are taking advantage of you.

Methinks you are not a native English reader. I wrote that I don't mind them coming late whenever we worked late the night before (for no overtime). Which makes me understand why you maybe having problems here.

[loong]

I'm now since 10 years in Thailand, and yes it is difficult for us (western's) to understand, I give you a small example:

In the Thai language there is NO word for no there is just a word for "not yes", ...............

You've lived here for 10 years and never heard of the word ไม่ mâi ??

Re the topic...

I can only comment on rural Thais and I have to say that many are just plain lazy.

Most rural builders that I know just want to do the minimum amount of work for their relatively high earnings. They take absolutely no pride in their work. Just do a shoddy job with no concern about customer satisfaction. The problem is that so many Thais will not complain.

Some, on the other hand are really hard workers and will put maximum effort into what they do and always to the best of their ability. The problem is that these hard workers still see little reward for their efforts although they do achieve a better than average life for their families. Better than average, but still not great.

There is very little to motivate the people. No matter how hard some people work, they are never going to climb very high up the ladder.

It does seem to me that if an employer can find the right people and give them the right motivation and rewards, they may well be able to get a good team together.

Edited May 17, 2009 by loong

[livinthailandos]

I didn't realize when I posted this I would have more than my fair share of replies. Some of you though I feel have entire missed one entire point though

( general observations farangs have seen when working with thais )

mind you I understand everyone has had

different experiences

number of years working in thailand

adjusting to different culture

just understand what one person see's another person might see differently. I have had good and bad experiences, not really with thai culture but with an individual though. Culture plays in part but I didn't see anyone post working with thai culture and then a individual and there personality. I have had frustration here at different times. Again thoug thats expected anywhere though.

[bertlamar]

You can also not take advantage of the Thai's.

Chinese seem to have done rather well, considering they de facto run the country.

Because they're not seen as FARANG. I never heard any thai say FARANG to Chinese people, because they know where they come from, so it's Chinese people.

It's the FARANG (Impossible to see from which country they come, at least by asians) who should keep away. hahaha

farang = white - if people know more then kon ungrit, kon yuroman, etc etc

kon jeen/ a few more derogatory = Chinese

kaek kao = arab

etc

Why do so many farang not understand why they are called farang?

[OxfordWill]

No one from the "anti thai staff camp" has rebuked or even addressed any of the points in my post, or in any of the other posts where the same points have been made. Is my post the definitive solution? Would be nice if someone intelligent and with experience could try to rebuke my answers. I am hoping to learn more. Im not holding out much hope though (just a touch of arrogance.. should help with motivating someone to respond..)

Edited May 19, 2009 by OxfordWill

[Pakboong]

If I could simply get decent internet connection out of these people maybe I would feel differently. I mean one where you actually get exactly what you pay for each and every day.

[Tyke]

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

I would add something similar.

From the perspective of a customer, rather than an employer, I am always dismayed by the lack of thought (unintentional, I think) for the customer, especially in supermarkets, bars etc) in things like:

a. making the customer give way when walking down the aisle or not moving when talking to friends and a customer wants to get something from shelves

b. telling untruths when asked where something can be found - I suspect because they don't want to show their ignorance and lose face - they never say they don't know when it would be better for everyone if they did.

c. not walking with a customer to where something can be found when asked - just vaguely pointing in one direction

d. not leaving a bar customer alone (eg not resisting the temptation to refill a glass, or chatting away) when it is clear the customer wants to be left alone

e. when a customer (farang at least) looks displeased or gets irritated by their behaviour they just snigger/backchat with their friends

It sometimes seems to me that many Thai businesses are set up to serve the staff, rather than their customers.

[redscouse]

Currently, the House of Commons in the UK is being shredded due to the abuse of expense accounts. What does this say about the so called integrity and honesty of the labour leaders,

Since you are talking about politics I assume you mean the Labour Party, but I don't know why you only highlight the integrity of the Labour Party when the expenses have been fiddled by members of the Conservative and Lib Dems also.

[Pakboong]

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

I would add something similar.

From the perspective of a customer, rather than an employer, I am always dismayed by the lack of thought (unintentional, I think) for the customer, especially in supermarkets, bars etc) in things like:

a. making the customer give way when walking down the aisle or not moving when talking to friends and a customer wants to get something from shelves

b. telling untruths when asked where something can be found - I suspect because they don't want to show their ignorance and lose face - they never say they don't know when it would be better for everyone if they did.

c. not walking with a customer to where something can be found when asked - just vaguely pointing in one direction

d. not leaving a bar customer alone (eg not resisting the temptation to refill a glass, or chatting away) when it is clear the customer wants to be left alone

e. when a customer (farang at least) looks displeased or gets irritated by their behaviour they just snigger/backchat with their friends

It sometimes seems to me that many Thai businesses are set up to serve the staff, rather than their customers.

It is often impossible to travel with a shopping cart from one end of the store to the other unobstructed by the workforce. As a kid I did many such jobs and we never interfered with the customers. Taught to us at an early age. We stocked the shelves at night, never during the day when the customers were present. We never blocked the isles. I have lived in Thailand off and on for 36 years and have never seen a manager in any grocery store. They must be there somewhere but it is not apparent to those of us looking. It is just odd. I don't find fault with the bottom level workers, they are simply doing what any unsupervised unskilled employee would do.

[Time Traveller]

The above is all true. More time than it is worth imo.

Do what I did, and take your operations to India instead.

Millions saved and our workforce is far more productive.

You should also be very much aware of the ridiculous laws protecting Thai employees which makes it impossible to discipline and get rid of incompetent and dishonest staff.

Hope Fisher & Paykel are prepared because my operations are of a similar size and we had nothing but problems here. One wonders if it was a gamble made in a drunken, horny night in Patpong rather than an informed decision. Time will tell.

OMG are you serious?

I have been working with Indians at all levels in Dubai for several years.

Never ever again.

Working in Thailand with Thai staff after years of working with Indian management, employees, customers and peers is a blessed relief.

If I ever have to work with Indians again as 95% of my day to day contacts, I might just consider suicide.

I would NEVER ever consider India as a place to do business, unless it was based on cost and never actually had to deal with Indians.

Their education system is a nightmare. No critical thinking or logic or understanding required.

Answer, and question. No grey area. No variables. No problem solving.

Aggressive and rude traits generally.

Very hierarchal. No initiative.

[shudder]

a bloody nightmare.

Thailand is paradise for dealing with people compared to India.

Spend 6 months in India and you will end back here with a new appreciation for the people and culture.

Either that, or you deserve to be in India.

In which case, good luck

Agree. People can complain about Thailand and thai people all you want. Reality is that it is paradise compared to other places to do business. If you really believe the complaints about a few incidents here then try another country. India is a perfect example

[Time Traveller]

I deeply regret investing in Thailand, and I would warn off any future investors.

You don't "invest" in Thailand, you make a donation.

After losing most if not all of their money, I'm thinking shareholders of Citigroup, GM, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie Mae, et al. are thinking a similiar thing also. Except they are not referring to Thailand but USA - land of capitalism and freedom. The same could equally be said of many other countries. It's always someone blaming everyone else when really their business was not successful, and another boring pointless comment blaming thailand. Unless your business was nationalized then what you are saying is that you just failed in business.

Reality is most businesses fail eventually.

[CFIT]

go forth and multiply, this is a very polite way to say <deleted>.. off! go back home and be unhappy wherever you want but not here, nobody is keeping you here, we are here only guests!

No, I am not a , " Guest"

I have a legal visa and Thailand , if it wants its citizens to be able to reside in other countries, must provide like-wise.

I also pay taxes and employ 4 Thais

Do you charge " Guests" taxes when they stay in your home ?

Truth is, I often feel as if I'm merely tolerated for my financial/ business contributions and actually, not welcome at all.

I deeply regret investing in Thailand, and I would warn off any future investors.

you are correct you are not a guest, you are an alien with a visa

.........who pays taxes, 'invested' (wow, 4 thai employees!) and has a distorted perspective of entitlement

as to being tolerated because of money - you don't mention what other 'good' you have brought with you so why else would you be tolerated?

Thread is Foreign opinions on Thai working culture .

Just curious , how many workers do you employ?

Yes, Thai apologists get snippy when faced with subjective opinion that differ from their own.

"you don't mention what other 'good' you have brought with you so why else would you be tolerated?"

This is rather ridiculous and is simply argumentative, having no valid point.

What " Good " did I bring?

Do you mean patronising prostitutes or marrying disadvantaged, desparate women from Isaan?

It seems that is what's expected of foreigners from the west.

And correct, I am an "Alien" with a visa and as such, should enjoys the same rights as Thais.

I"ll say it again;

I find Thais ( I've employed 12 throughout almost 4 years ) to be lazy and their work ethic seriously deficient. ( Actually, all their ethics )

( I pay 30 % more than my Thai competitor.)

I REGRET moving to and opening a business here and I will be leaving.

And now 4 employees ( CUE: sarcastic," WOW" ) will now have to seek other employment.

I also will be warning off any prospective visitors and / or expats from Thailand.

Ye,s I am just one person, but I'd bet there are many many more doing the same and it does all add up.

Look at all the negative press of late, Thailand deserves every bit of it too.

Thailand is now reaping what it has sown, which is badly treating foreigners in every aspect and all segments are going to suffer needlessly for it.

Just wait until next year.

Get out now, why the getting is- well not good , but this is the time to do it .

Leave the Thai lovers here, we all know why they love it and it paints all westerners in a bad light-I'm embarrassed for them.

[bluweyze]

I employ 40 staff, 34 from Thailand, 6 from Myanmar. Sure they are not all perfect but they work hard, have a good service culture and slack off less than back in the UK. Generally Thai workers are given no training, have little promotion prospects and therefore move from job to job to improve their money. I had a lot of construction work done here and whilst it took a lot of attention to get quality the work ethic was fantastic. You cannot expect everything to be just like 'back home' and maybe you look at back home through rose tinted spectacles. I like Thailand and I like the Thais, I certainly feel safer here than in London. I wonder why so many of the Thai complainers bother to stay here

[Losangels]

It sometimes seems to me that many Thai businesses are set up to serve the staff, rather than their customers.

Good example is the TV in a bar or restaurant will be showing soaps or lakorn for their staff to watch, doesn't matter what customers want to watch.

Worst happens when you're watching something interesting on TV the staff will suddenly change the channel to what they want to see. Used to bother me a lot but now I guess I'm used to it

[loong]

It sometimes seems to me that many Thai businesses are set up to serve the staff, rather than their customers.

Good example is the TV in a bar or restaurant will be showing soaps or lakorn for their staff to watch, doesn't matter what customers want to watch.

Worst happens when you're watching something interesting on TV the staff will suddenly change the channel to what they want to see. Used to bother me a lot but now I guess I'm used to it

That is so true.

A restaurant I used to go to had a TV and the staff always had their backs to the customers, glued to the screen.

If you wanted something you'd have to shout, but they'd either ignore you or couldn't hear you because the TV was so loud - not absolutely sure which. It's quite ridiculous when a customer has to get up and walk to the staff and tap them on the shoulder to get service.

I've never understood why so many can hear a person the other side of the room speaking in a whisper, but have to have the TV at full volume.

That place lost my custom as pointing out the problem to the farang owner had no effect. Shame, the food was very good.

[GuestHouse]

I REGRET moving to and opening a business here and I will be leaving.

And now 4 employees ( CUE: sarcastic," WOW" ) will now have to seek other employment.

I also will be warning off any prospective visitors and / or expats from Thailand.

Ye,s I am just one person, but I'd bet there are many many more doing the same and it does all add up.

Look at all the negative press of late, Thailand deserves every bit of it too.

Thailand is now reaping what it has sown, which is badly treating foreigners in every aspect and all segments are going to suffer needlessly for it.

Just wait until next year.

Get out now, why the getting is- well not good , but this is the time to do it .

Leave the Thai lovers here, we all know why they love it and it paints all westerners in a bad light-I'm embarrassed for them.

CFIT - I'm curious to know, at some time in the past you were obviously had pretty optimistic views of Thailand ( ie you moved to Thailand and started a business here). Your views now are negative and please, I respect your right to those views, I do not criticise you for holding them. .

But I am currious to know, if at the time you were feeling positive about Thailand someone had warned you of the hazards/pitfalls and given you negative views of Thailand - would you have been willing to hear those views?

[oldsparrow]

I'm now since 10 years in Thailand, and yes it is difficult for us (western's) to understand, I give you a small example: In the Thai language there is NO word for no there is just a word for "not yes", ...............

You've lived here for 10 years and never heard of the word ไม่ mâi ?? Re the topic... I can only comment on rural Thais and I have to say that many are just plain lazy. Most rural builders that I know just want to do the minimum amount of work for their relatively high earnings. They take absolutely no pride in their work. Just do a shoddy job with no concern about customer satisfaction. The problem is that so many Thais will not complain. Some, on the other hand are really hard workers and will put maximum effort into what they do and always to the best of their ability. The problem is that these hard workers still see little reward for their efforts although they do achieve a better than average life for their families. Better than average, but still not great. There is very little to motivate the people. No matter how hard some people work, they are never going to climb very high up the ladder. It does seem to me that if an employer can find the right people and give them the right motivation and rewards, they may well be able to get a good team together.

ไม่ is NO in general

ไม่ใช่ is not NOT YES but NOT RIGHT, you use to state information you are told is wrong or not the right selection ไม่ใช่อย่างนี้ (not something like this). It's closer to ไม่ถูกต้อง (not right information) ไม่จริง (not the truth)

Sometimes people use ่ีjust ไม่ in the place of ไม่ใช่ but it sound abrupt or aggressive.

Refuse the offer. - ไม่ NO!

Is that green BMW yout car? - ไม่ใช่ (Selection between green and other colours or BMW and other makes)

Did you do it? - ไม่ (Only BEING you and the behavior)

Are you the one who did it? - ไม่ใช่ (The question offer the choices between BEING the one who did it and the one who didn't)

- Just my observation, other Thais may have different opinion.

Edited May 20, 2009 by oldsparrow

[Datsun240Z]

Seems "the smile" is not working anymore....

[oldsparrow]

Have look at this:

Did you drink whisky? ไม่ (No) ํThis only means you didn't drink whisky for sure.

BUT if you answer ไม่ใช่ (Not right) Not the expected answer for this form of question. This means it was not whisky you drank and automatically implies that you drank something else.

[oldsparrow]

farang = white - if people know more then kon ungrit, kon yuroman, etc etc

kon jeen/ a few more derogatory = Chinese

kaek kao = arab

etc

Why do so many farang not understand why they are called farang?

****

"Farang" comes from Francais/France

Many words the Thais use are distorted French phonetic that is why:

Kanom Pung (bread) = Pain (Kanom is sweet or anything rather than main dist of rice. In Lao language they simple call Pung). More similar to bread.

Ang-grit = Anglais

Yer-raman = Allemagne

Mean white guy include Hispanic. Now, we have so many forign nationalities so sometime Farang is casually extended to westerner in general.

Kaek Kao = Yes, White Kaek, Arub, Israeli, Tukish the pale Kaek

Kaek = South Asian and include Muslim Southeast Asians.

These term also extend to the BEING of that person concern. You may heard:

"This boy looks Farang, he had been in to the US for 10 years." The being of Farang in manner, fashion not the real bodily look of course.