Australian Women Arrested In Phuket Over Bar Mat

[Lancelot]

Because these are not cultural tourists! They are just in town for the beach, some sights, some booze, and some shags and if the tourist infrastructure is not going to respect that, they will just go elsewhere. Does Phuket want this stupid easy gravy train money or not? With cops like that, they don't deserve it.

Thats a vaild question Jing and, sadly, it appers that the face factor is ruling supreme. What a shame and so easily avoided...

[JetsetBkk]

...For Steve I expect troubles ahead since it is blown up to highest level of govt agencies on both sides. He may lose his business and invest vestment if he paid off police illegally (there will be nerve racking investigations). Somebody might take over his/their business, which is well established, promoted and famous now. Think about.

Do you own the bar next door?

I think I'll go there tonight and give him my custom - maybe even ring the bell.

[baramunchies]

He may lose his business and investvestment if he paid off police illegally (there will be nerve racking investigations). Somebody might take over his/their business, which is well established, promoted and famous now. Think about.

who sais he paid police? maybe he did like any other bar owner have to, but how does it matter here? he did nothing wrong.

i agree, he is in risk of loosing his business, cause now it's in the public news in Australia that he is the one to blame (for some reason i don't know). all australian tourists will avoid his bar.

[LivinLOS]

I wouldn't trust anybody who employs or bribes Thai cops.

That would be every bar on Bangla road then..

[bonobo]

Frankly, I would have far less tolerance for a long term expat doing such a prank. But mass tourism is all about attracting the dumb masses. Maybe Thailand really doesn't want them. Fine. Then they can't have the money either. Its a two way street.

Ditto.

[buffcoat]

I'm sorry, but I find many of attitudes on here puzzling. IMO, it is all just more Thai-bashing from Westerners who feel that all of Thailand should bow and scrape to them.

The woman in question ran from the police during questioning, resisted arrest, and then verbally abused the chief-of-police. In the USA, where I am from, any of these crimes carry serious charges. But in Thailand, where the Westerner is to be worshipped at all cost because all Thais should be whores to the tourist dollar (regardless of their station), the Thais are awful for detaining her while they decide how to handle this case and what charges to press.

In the end, it will probably be a small fine and no jail time just as with the Burroughs case (and in his case he abused and threatened airport security and immigration personnel which would also be a big crime in the US). That is not a big punishment to pay considering the circumstances. The woman from Australia is the one who made a petty problem very serious by her actions. Consider in your home country what would happen if you fled the police, resisted arrest, and verbally abused the cheif-of-police. But in Thailand, tourists should be able to do whatever it is they want according to the reasoning of some.

I DO agree that Thailand has endemic problems with police corruption, and criminal justice can be a twisted thing in LOS. However, in this case, I think the Thai authorities are within their rights. What must the Thais think when they are asked to excuse serious crimes for the sake of sucking up to tourists (and, no, I am not talking about a stolen bar mat)? It perputuates the sterotype many Thais have that all Westerners think Thailand and its people should excuse any behaviour and any crime from tourists and Westerners to save face with Westerners and their media.

Many of us know the worst thing one can ever do in Thailand, especially with authorities, is to raise one's voice, especially if verbal abuse is involved. This is NOT a case about a bar prank or a missing bar mat, and it must infuriate Thais that Westerners and their media want to paint it as such. Now the woman and the media are trying to insult the Thais and the Thai authorites involved by conducting a media campaign that makes Thailand look bad for holding someone in such a case (fleeing a police investigation, abuse of police staff). That is not a winning move on her part as she is now just fanning the flames, making a bad situation worse, and hardening the attitudes of the Thai authorities involved.

And had this happened in a Western country to a Thai person (and Thais who travel to other countries would probably never behave in such a manner) that fled police when being questioned and verbally abused the police and their cheif, would all of us be in an uproar? The woman (and any of us) need to learn that one must respect the laws, the authorities, and the customs in ANY country in which we choose to travel, and that being a Western tourist in a devloping country dependent in part upon tourism and tourist money does not give us the freedom to act in whatever manner we like and to break any laws we wish.

JMHO, and presented as another opinion in the face of all the rampant Thailand-bashing in this thread and the "another-nail-in-the-coffin" crowd who frequent the TV forum.

Agree 100%. Well put.

Absolutely correct, I couldn't agree more

[JetsetBkk]

...People who live here really need to understand the culture, and even as a simple tourist, I personally would try to read up on the local culture. But for the majority of the tourists who are here for a couple of days or a week, they are being sold a bill of goods by the tourism authorities, and none of that has to do with the local police.

Thank you for agreeing with me. I live here and know how to behave, how far you can go and which lines you cannot cross.

Tourists need to read up on Thailand before they come here. If you go into an Aussie bar in Thailand, you're still in Thailand - which is what these inebriated ladies appear to have forgotten when confronted by the BiB.

I presume Simon Burrowes won't be swearing at any more immigration officials if he ever comes back to Thailand.

[rafval]

Yes the Aussie Bar has some police in the organization, as does every other foreign business in Thailand

Since when? I know many many Thai and farang business owners, none would ever employ a cop. In the Thai language there is an old saying "Having a Policeman as a friend is like raising a pet cobra, oneday you will get bitten." The Thai police are the mafia in Thailand, so to me anybody who deals with them is either a sucker being pumped by them or a partner in crime with them.

I believe Mr Woods actually pays the top cop to ensure that he always has off duty cops that have a bit of clout available in or around his bar.

What for if he is running an honest business? Or are they there to protect other business being done there? A couple I know who have been there told me they were approached by people with offers that scared them so much they moved hotels in fear of being set up.

I wouldn't trust anybody who employs or bribes Thai cops.

I dont think thats quite the reality, the cops are the tax collectors, everyone pays them, its not bribes or employment as such but as far as I know all bars and the like pay the cops, thats where their main income comes from, their salaries are very low, correct me if Im wrong

[elcent]

...For Steve I expect troubles ahead since it is blown up to highest level of govt agencies on both sides. He may lose his business and investment if he paid off police illegally (there will be nerve racking investigations). Somebody might take over his/their business, which is well established, promoted and famous now. Think about.

Do you own the bar next door?

I think I'll go there tonight and give him my custom - maybe even ring the bell.

No, I don't have a bar next door, just trying to read and analyze between the lines.

Edited May 19, 2009 by elcent

[bungy007]

All I can say is let this be a lesson for anyone whoever considers stealing in Thailand, it doesnt matter how little, a beer mat, a stubby or the cash register. It is still taking something away that doesnt belong to you. For me it is totally disrespectful.

The Aussie bar clearly has signs all over the place advertising for its customers to purchase Aussie bar branded memorabilia. T shirts, caps, umbrellas and yes... beer mats ! Why did she not simply ask one of the staff to buy one ? It would not be much more than a few dollars, more importantly she would not be in this mess.

Anyone who knows the owner Steve will tell you that he is one of the nicest blokes you will ever meet, a real asset to the Bangla entertainment scene and a valued member of the expat community. This will not be in his hands however, if he does have a say he will be trying everything he can to get her released.

I dont believe for one minute that it was a prank, and the story about her being set up by her mates was made up to gain some sympathy and to pass the blame. Stealing from bars is very common in Patong, I have spoken to many bar owners who are constantaly frustrated of having to re-order beer mats and stubbys, simply because someone wanted a free souvenir to take home. And im sorry to say its always the bars that are frequented by Aussies, with the ladies being the worst culprits.

I do feel for the lady who got banged up and I hope she is out by now (probably is) but I also think that she should be made an example of, to show these so called "tourists" that a total disregard of respect will not be tolerated.

Someone being arrested for stealing a beer mat will not be the down fall of Thai tourism, what will be the downfall is pathetic news papers with comments like "Melbourne mother may face up to five years in a Thai jail". There is absolutely no way that this person will spend 5 years in jail for stealing a beer mat. Only a cheap low life news paper would make such a comment !!

Please, please, please, read the story and get the gist before you post - it's just annoying to the rest of us. She didn't steal anything! Get it? She didn't steal any beer mats, any feezers, anything from the cash till. She was accosted by the BiB while still in the bar. You cannot be guilty of stealing something without leaving the scene and the said object found on your person. This, by all accounts, was not the case. She left - her bag remained as did the slopps rag! Others admitted to placing the rag in the accused's handbag - this was recorded on video and a guilty plea was made by the prankster at the police station but rejected. Why was the confession rejected is one very big question! This is the real crux of the fiasco! To hold someone against their will on false charges, whilst relieving them of their passport is not acceptable in this day and age. Could this be pay-back of some kind against westerners for the complete loss of face experienced by the Thai Constabulary over the Simon Burrowes affair? Hmmmm. It begs the question!

[swindonabroad]

I'm sorry, but I find many of attitudes on here puzzling. IMO, it is all just more Thai-bashing from Westerners who feel that all of Thailand should bow and scrape to them.

The woman (and any of us) need to learn that one must respect the laws, the authorities, and the customs in ANY country in which we choose to travel, and that being a Western tourist in a devloping country dependent in part upon tourism and tourist money does not give us the freedom to act in whatever manner we like and to break any laws we wish.

Agree 100%. Well put.

Absolutely correct, I couldn't agree more

As usual with any theme or topic on this site it has quickly degenerated into the usual and boring ‘if you don’t like here then f off’ comments.

Many posters seem so desperate to prove their ‘Thainess’ that any criticism of the country or the people is jumped on.

The irony of many of the points of view is this- She is being vilified for her behaviour, rudeness and running away.

This is also being backed up with support for the corrupt police, judicial system and bar owner (bribes).

People say she acted illegally (which she did) and then offer the simple solution of paying a bribe. Can no one else see the irony in these suggestions?

Either there is law and order with uncorruptable police men, no bribes paid to the police and all crimes investigated fully otherwise its extremely difficult to know where to start (or stop) arresting people.

Do people really think that on this particular night in question this ladies actions were in the top, say, 10% of ‘worst things done’in Phuket? I hear there are other night time activites that are illegal as well, how well is that law enforced?

If the country had a police force that deserved respect it would be shown to them. This has to be earned.

[harleyclarkey]

I don't think there is any argument that the Thai justice system is unwieldy and flawed or that there is great folly in abusing the constabulary. People need to be aware that this is THAILAND and the home team owns the pitch, the ball and the referee. Get drunk in Thailand...no problem, get drunk in Thailand, do a runner and abuse the top cop... look out!

Mr Rudd clearly has failed the international diplomacy 101 test yet again, he is so wrapped up in China and the fact he can speak passable Mandarin that he has dropped the ball for the second time on Thailand (the first time when he turned his plane around in Singapore when there were problems in Pattaya).

I feel sorry for the Australian taxpayer who will end up footing the bill for some DFAT functionary spending a few weeks in a five star resort in Phuket so he can be available to speak with the media and tell them that DFAT can not interfere in the internal justice system of other nations and have daily meetings with the woman and her husband. Come to think of it, my government, in an act of compassion, will probably fly the rest of the family to Phuket under pressure from some shock jock on Melbourne radio.

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions!!

No matter what the outcome, Thailand tourism will suffer a set back as a result of the western media coverage, The Aussie bar will continue to be the most popular bar on Bangla road, The top cop will continue to receive his payments and life will go on.

I am sick of the people that cannot adjust to the way things are done here and constantly complain about Thailand! Either get used to it or leave, simple really. For mine I would rather see the corruption benefit the many, as it does here, than the few (politicians and rich elite) as it does in most western countries.

You are joking? Flawed?? Unwieldy? The system is out of control. Filty inhumane jails, corrupt policemen, bribes, shakedowns, shootings, murders and these by the police!! Police still on duty after shooting a foreigner. TV has these well documented.

A justice system that is a laughing stock. Judges bought and paid for, courts that are racist to foreigners. Disgraceful lawyers and unecesasry delays and Just look back at posts here of peoples experience in the courts in Thailand.

A foreigner is accused of, repeat ACCUSED of(and denies), the theft of an item that can be made for cents. A bus load of foreigners was robbed by the passengers being gassed by the owners husband and staff. What happens? Of course....she is Thai and told to pay back the thousands of EURO, not baht, if she can and then be a good girl.

Corruption benifits the poor in Thailand? Are you serious? That is an absurd remark. It is the politicans, the police and officials who fleece you and every single street trader/small shop owner/bar owner in Thailand...not the poor sod on the street.These will always remain poor which suits the ruling elite.

You say it yourself....nothing will change, life will go on. Therein lies the problem. Any civilised society would not tolerate anything near this level of abuse for such a petty crime. I hope you don't get overzealous some night, have a few too many, overreact and maybe keep a glass as a souvenir.

One thing I agree with you is ....yes it is Thailand. And that is why I stay away now. I hope more people do the same.

Edited May 19, 2009 by harleyclarkey

[Texpat]

To hold someone against their will on false charges, whilst relieving them of their passport is not acceptable in this day and age.

Maybe not in Kansas, Dorothy. But the wizard is from Oz -- no, not that Oz.

That is the crux of the problem. People trying in vain to apply their laws, and reasoning and rationale to a third-world-country's legal and justice system.

Can't do it. And if you're not prepared to behave, stay home or suffer the consequences.

[harrry]

A bribe is a bribe.

It seems many posters here are so bent that they look on bribery as normal.

They keep saying that it would have all gone away if a little money had been paid. Most tourists come from places where even offering a bribe is a very very serious crime. If you offered $100 to a policeman in Australia it would be a sure way of having a problem.

I don't like the behavior of many Hen's Party women but it is liked so much by bar owners that it that they encourage it.

Whatever happens Thailand will lose from this and that makes me sad as I like here and want it to do well normal Thais deserve at least this much.

To those who say she is geing charged because of abusive language or making an officer lose face he charge should be for this. It is apparent from the barmans statement she did not put the mat in the bag.

If anyone was trying to extort her she has every right to run,

[Lancelot]

To hold someone against their will on false charges, whilst relieving them of their passport is not acceptable in this day and age.

Maybe not in Kansas, Dorothy. But the wizard is from Oz -- no, not that Oz.

That is the crux of the problem. People trying in vain to apply their laws, and reasoning and rationale to a third-world-country's legal and justice system.

Can't do it. And if you're not prepared to behave, stay home or suffer the consequences.

But Tex, the flip side is that many potential tourists will indeed stay home and their hard earned money will not find its way in to the pockets of equally hard working Thais employed in the tourist industry. Thats the point some of are trying to make here, its the thais employed in tourisim that will pay the price so to speak.

[doggie888888]

How dare the inferior natives apply their laws against us, the obviously more advanced civilisation? That seems to sum up a lot of the rubbish posts here. Tourists should be able to do as they please, booze up and party till they drop dead...and don't anyone dare to stop them!

You are NOT in your own country, and if you are stupid enough to take risks, mis-behave (and the definition applied here is not a Western one) and leave your brains at the airport, then too bad if you are subject to a foreign concept and system of justice.

As for this incident affecting tourism, well all the better..perhaps we end up with fewer tourists behaving badly.

[katasyd]

Wow, I am so impressed by all the wisdom from these posts, if you ask me 90% is a verbal jerk off. Do you ever read and think before writing?

Sydney Morning Herald

We apoligized to the police officer and asked him if we could please go back to the hotel

The officer that we explained the events to said that Annice could go,he said,"ok, go" and nodded his head.

Unfortunately, when Annice was leaving, after being told she could go, bar staff ran after her and would not let her go, despite us informing them the first officer had said she was free to go

Not pressing charges hey!!!

[taxin]

He may lose his business and investvestment if he paid off police illegally (there will be nerve racking investigations). Somebody might take over his/their business, which is well established, promoted and famous now. Think about.

who sais he paid police? maybe he did like any other bar owner have to, but how does it matter here? he did nothing wrong.

i agree, he is in risk of loosing his business, cause now it's in the public news in Australia that he is the one to blame (for some reason i don't know). all australian tourists will avoid his bar.

Lets hope so, might actually be able to get a seat on a Sunday afternoon !!

I suspect that this has been the best form of marketing the bar could ask for. Imagine all those curious Aussies on their next holiday who will want to go and have a look at the bar, to get their opinion, to go home and say "I went there" !

The famous Aussie Bar is now REALLY famous !

[bungy007]

...For Steve I expect troubles ahead since it is blown up to highest level of govt agencies on both sides. He may lose his business and invest vestment if he paid off police illegally (there will be nerve racking investigations). Somebody might take over his/their business, which is well established, promoted and famous now. Think about.

Do you own the bar next door?

I think I'll go there tonight and give him my custom - maybe even ring the bell.

And when he ask's your name don't forget to reply. "Don't ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for you!' Rest in Peace Phuket's 'Ozzie Bar'.

[bonobo]

How dare the inferior natives apply their laws against us, the obviously more advanced civilisation? That seems to sum up a lot of the rubbish posts here. Tourists should be able to do as they please, booze up and party till they drop dead...and don't anyone dare to stop them!

You are NOT in your own country, and if you are stupid enough to take risks, mis-behave (and the definition applied here is not a Western one) and leave your brains at the airport, then too bad if you are subject to a foreign concept and system of justice.

As for this incident affecting tourism, well all the better..perhaps we end up with fewer tourists behaving badly.

Easy for you to say.  You are not a restaurant worker, hotel employee, vendor, or anyone else who needs tourists in order to put food on the table.

If the accused did behave poorly, then slap her wrist and send her on her way.  Don't let her back, if it comes to that.  But the police need to look at the bigger picture.  Are their collective egos more important than the international reputation of nation? Are they more important the the contribution made to the local economy by tourists?  

It is pathetic that they (the police) have allowed this to get so out-of-hand that it has become an international incident.  And Thai people will suffer because of that.

[ovenman]

One wonders where the farang Tourist Police volunteers were when all of this was going on. Isn't this the very sort of situation they are supposed to be charged with sorting out?

[dmax]

The bar is obviously owned by an influential Thai - policeman or politician.Would a Farang owned Bar have undercover cops working in it? Would the police care if a Farang owned bar got ripped off? Certainly not, because the police are looking to do just that - rip off the Farang owned bar themselves by searching for unauthentic music on the computer or Thai CD's etc or absolutely any other "law" they can make up to extort baht from the owner. (yes, I've owned a Bar in Thailand so I'm talking from first hand experience)

So,this is some Thai scumbags bar and they are putting a tourist in jail for stealing a towel. I suggest you avoid this bar if you're ever in Phuket and tell everyone that you know to avoid it as well.

yes i for one will avoid this bar,,and also if i were the falang owner i would drop the charges against this woman now...

[Jingthing]

What's wrong with a little ON THE SPOT justice? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This had already gone far out of proportion to the crime. Another Simon fiasco in the making.

[doggie888888]

How dare the inferior natives apply their laws against us, the obviously more advanced civilisation? That seems to sum up a lot of the rubbish posts here. Tourists should be able to do as they please, booze up and party till they drop dead...and don't anyone dare to stop them!

You are NOT in your own country, and if you are stupid enough to take risks, mis-behave (and the definition applied here is not a Western one) and leave your brains at the airport, then too bad if you are subject to a foreign concept and system of justice.

As for this incident affecting tourism, well all the better..perhaps we end up with fewer tourists behaving badly.

Easy for you to say. You are not a restaurant worker, hotel employee, vendor, or anyone else who needs tourists in order to put food on the table.

If the accused did behave poorly, then slap her wrist and send her on her way. Don't let her back, if it comes to that. But the police need to look at the bigger picture. Are their collective egos more important than the international reputation of nation? Are they more important the the contribution made to the local economy by tourists?

It is pathetic that they (the police) have allowed this to get so out-of-hand that it has become an international incident. And Thai people will suffer because of that.

An international incident?? Give me a break. The world needs to worry about some dumb Aussie sheila? I'd say it's an incident that the Australian Embassy needs to deal with, end of story.

I seriously doubt any single white males will pay scant regard to this "international incident". They come here for other reasons, not to steal bar mats, whatever that is.

[baramunchies]

at the end it's the price/value that drives the decision of most tourists.

the outcry is loud now, but the memory is usually short

[Duangta]

Sydney Morning Herald

[thumbinthrough]

Lot's of people seem to be stuck on the showing respect for Thailand thing.

My question is how can you?

The thai people don't respect their own country and / or law (look at how much rubbish is thrown, remember drink driving during songkran, scamming tourists etc). The police don't respect the laws. The politicians don't respect the law. On the whole Thais don't show much respect to their neighbours (we've all heard the comments re: stuid laos, evil cambodia etc. etc)

It's no good saying come here and respect our laws, even if we the natives don't. All Thais need to earn the respect of their fellow countryman first, then perhaps foreigners will start showing Thailand the respect its earnt.

It's no good saying Thailand has a different system. Your rule sdon't apply. Ordinary people apply the rules with which they've been brought up with. An Indian in living England doesn't stop thinking like an Indian. So to expect an Aussie to stop thinking like an Aussie on holiday is stupid.

[lennois]

Don't tell me Thais and Farang get treated the same either. EVERY time the police see me in a taxi at asoke intersection I am pulled over and thoroughly searched as cars of thais have flown on by before me. How many thais are hit up with "give me 20K and you won't have to go to the police station"

they would do the same to Thais too if the Thais had 20000b, it has nothing to do with race

Lol, garbage dude. I am repeatedly stopped and Thais I know living in my same area never are (some with more cash than me.) It has EVERYTHING to with race.

Next you'll be telling me there is no racism in Thailand. Lolapalooza. About the only place I've been to that (openly) has pricing schemes based on the colour of your skin...

Edited May 19, 2009 by lennois

[carvets]

The bar is obviously owned by an influential Thai - policeman or politician.Would a Farang owned Bar have undercover cops working in it? Would the police care if a Farang owned bar got ripped off? Certainly not, because the police are looking to do just that - rip off the Farang owned bar themselves by searching for unauthentic music on the computer or Thai CD's etc or absolutely any other "law" they can make up to extort baht from the owner. (yes, I've owned a Bar in Thailand so I'm talking from first hand experience)

So,this is some Thai scumbags bar and they are putting a tourist in jail for stealing a towel. I suggest you avoid this bar if you're ever in Phuket and tell everyone that you know to avoid it as well.

yes i for one will avoid this bar,,and also if i were the falang owner i would drop the charges against this woman now...

He never pressed charges,...he wasn't in the country at the time.

[steveyinasia]

Certainly many tourists need to learn a lesson or two about how to address authorities here. Several times in Bangkok I have been pulled over for not being in the left lane on the scooter.....at times when the police car is parked in the left lane it is difficult to remain in the left lane....however that is not the issue...I am not in the left lane.

A good smile, apology for not understanding the rules, even after the third time, collect my ticket(or pay direct), ask nicely about where to pay(if collected ticket) and proceed to pay the fine. At the station, smile and thank the guys for dealing with this without taking up too much time.

End of story.....if you feel like getting a little hot under the collar, I would suggect counting to 10 and thereby saving alot of hassles/money.

Only been living in Thailand for 18 months however everyday I learn something new that would keep me out of trouble....humble pie is served many times. The argument of right or wrong is not relevant, laws here are definately open to interpretation(thai version) and you will not win the argument. I love living in thailand, the people and places are truly amazing however I don't live here thinking that it is the same as home. I do find myself not comparing to home as much theses days, just accept where I am.

BT, I was fowarded an email about a Middle eastern child(could be fake but pictures look real) about a small girl who stole some bread and as punishment she was having her arm ran over by a truck so that she could not use the arm to steal again.Right or wrong, it's their country and their laws.

True that this case has been blown up through the media, maybe sometime soon the facts will come out and once again some of us for our comments will be eating more humble pie.