Holidays In Israel

[alyx]

hey

After some years away from Europe we, my friend and I, have decide to spend a loooong holiday there. Everytime we return we visit a new country (preferably outside EU) for 3 to 4 weeks

This year we wanted to go to Turkey but we were told that it was not the best season to get there so we shifted to Israel, don't ask me why, it is just like that

So a couple of weeks I started enquiring about hotels: well even though I like to stay in nice ones this time any of the hotels (1 to 3) were out of our reach budgetwise (let alone the 4 stars). I went for a flat rental (there too the prices were, in 99% of the cases, VERY high). We eventually found a studio located in the center of a major city, a couple of days ago, reasonnably priced.

I then searched internet for informations: I was surprised to find negative entries regarding the way people were treated at the Ben Gurion airport by the security but under the clause "don't believe everything you read" I didn't pay much attention.

With the contract in my pocket I went to the Israeli Embassy, that I had called a week ago to ask i f I could apply for a visa in my friend's name (I don't need a visa) and had got a positive answer. The funny thing is that they ask you to provide them with a ticket and a confirmed reservation (well trust me, in the case the visa vis is denied it means a substancial loss of money) but nevertheless let's try.

I am now next to the lift whan a thai civilian approaches me and asks me where I was going: I answered thinking he wanted to tell me which lift to used. He then asked me to show my ID: well a bit surprised I asked him who he was (security) and in return I asked him to flash his ID which he declined? He then tols me he would call the police, to which I agreed as I have no trouble to present them with my passport. As a matter of fact policemen were standing at the front of the building (which is normal for an embassy and, I guess, especially for this one). When I showed my passport to this policemen, the security came up and showed me his: "well,thank you, I said, I don't need to see it anymore but that is what you should have done in the first place" I know, this might sound silly but it is not because one asks for your ID that one is an official authorised to do that. Anyway, once this was over with, I was directed to a lobby phone where I had the chance to talk to person in charge with the security. He started to ask me a lot of questions: name, purpose of visiting, relatives etc... I insited on the fact that I was not applying for a visa but rather trying to give a dossier. He repeatidly asked the same questions to which I answered accurately and with calm (thanks for the insight I had from the net) and at the end of the conversation he told me that I wasn't allowed to do so and people had to apply by themselves. I did not mind any of the questions except one: Are you a Jew?!!!!!! How can we be asked for our religion obedience. Whether I would answer yes or no, would that change a single thing? Doesn't he think that this questions had been asked causing the death of millions of them? YES that has really shocked.

Off I go, frustrated but ok: the rules are the rules. As it was raining I had to stay inside the building when I started noticing that some people where going straight upstair, accompanied by a security, after showing their ID. It might have been for their visa but I couldn't help thinking they looked like messengers. The rain had stopped: I went to the corner of the street, I gave the dossier and the and the application to a moto taxi. He came back 45 minutes later (it seems average) with a paper saying that the apllication was being processed. He wasn't asked any questions (although he said that they were the annoying type upstairs)

I guess that Thai represent a lesser threat than other nationals (of course this is Bangkok and not Pattani)

The real purpose of this topis is not the way one is being treated at the Embassy but I am having second thoughts about that trip (sea, sun and of course an occasion to visit some sites). What is going to happen at the airport? I have read a lot of threads where it is said they pick people from a line and interrogate them (same MO) and it can last hours and eventually refuse them the entry and deport them.

I am not so worried about that as I have nothing to hide nor any any malicious intention but what, if they pick up my friend who underwent radiotherapy a year ago and is in need of drinking water on a regular basis.

I know a lot of things are written on the net but I do need experiences first hand

I do not want your opinion about how abhorrent or wonderful people israeli are, I do not want any political nor religious statement

THIS NOT THE TOPIC

I just want the story of people who have been there to tell us what really happens once at the airport (apparently it doesn't matter whether one is entering or exiting the country the approach seems to be the same). Is it sytematic or at random? Is there a profiling?

Is it worth the trouble (even though we would lose the plane tockets and the flat's reservation) Are the security that despicable?

I don't want to go through this if it means to fragilise my friend.

Thanks for the insight

[lekatai]

I've been to Israel three times,although it was a few years ago.The airport security is the tightest I have ever encountered.I travelled twice with a male friend,and once on a package tour with a girlfriend.Basicaly the approach was always the same. Once it was established you were travelling with a companion,the routine was to separate you from them.You are then questioned at length about who you are,what you do,why you are going to Israel,where you are going etc etc.Then,the person or people that questioned you,change over to question your companion,and vice versa.The questioning was thorough,but not intimidating.I am quite sure they do use profiling,once they had asked(and verified) what my job was (Civil Service) they were happy.Everyone is questioned without exception,only the length of this probably varies.The questioning was the same on the return journey,and just as thorough.The interesting thing was that the time I was with my girlfriend,there was a guy on the plane of Middle Eastern appearance.I was speaking to him on the plane as he was sat next to me.Apparently he was given a hard time,and questioned for ages,but obviously passed the test,as he was allowed on the plane.He was on the same flight as us back,and when they questioned him at the Israeli airport before boarding the flight back,from their questions,it was obvious to him that they knew where he had been and what he had done for his entire holiday.It wasn't Ben Gurion airport we went to,I can't remember the name,but it was a military airfield in the Negev,not far from Eilat,so maybe the security was tighter because of that.I would think because of the current situation there the security will be at least as tight.The security guys I dealt with were thorough,and insistent,but not heavy handed or threatening,and if anything I suppose tighter security can only be a better thing.I am certainly glad I went,as you say some of the sites are well worth seeing.

[alyx]

Thanks a lot

At least I know what to expect

[mojo80]

been there, hated the country the people and the food...imo avoid

[lekatai]

Well,not to talk politics/religion etc etc,OK.But I have been to Israel on three occasions,including working on a kibbutz(if only for three weeks)and there are places there that are well worth seeing.i.e.Massada,the Dead Sea,Jerusalem,the Wailing wall,Dome of the Rock,etc etc.After all it is (one of the ) cradles of civilization.But I have to say,if it was now,then I probably wouldn't go there,because of all that's going on there.And,regrettably,I have to say,that in my current incarnation as a hotel owner in Pattaya,that my encounters with Israeli tourists have been such that I have had to tell the cashiers that if Israelis want to book a room,then they must tell them that we don't have any rooms available.Draw your own conclusions.

Edited May 19, 2009 by lekatai

[ubonjoe]

I have just deleted 9 off topic posts.

Please stay on topic.

[bojo]

Interseting what Lekatai says about not allowing Israeli's to book into his place.

Also having experienced mostly young Israeli tourists visiting my cafe/bar over many years, it quickly became apparent that the young visitors(mostly just out of a 3 year stint in the army and probably stressed after war/whatever) often appeared aggresive/rude. On arriving at ours and allowing them 5 minutes to relax and give them the time of day, most quickly changed. Once they realised that the management was not anti-Israeli (I'm not insinuating that Lektai is in the least and appreciate that a hotel is different from a restaurant) and treated them just like any other customer, they quickly changed any negative tune and would frequent the place more than others. They would invite their fellow nationals along and the place was often an electic mix of all nationalities. The older Israeli tourists that came to eat we're always well chilled and up for a laugh.

I'm not Jewish by the way, have been to Israel years ago on holiday and what a friendly bunch they we're and I know a few Israelis living here in Thailand and I find them very friendly. I'm a great believer in the old saying 'never judge a book by it's cover' and give everyone the time of day until they prove otherwise.

regards Bojo

[alyx]

I have just deleted 9 off topic posts.

Please stay on topic.

Thanks for watching

[alyx]

Well Just to let you know that I called the consulate to know whether the visa had been granted (application 7 days earlier and 30 days search for flat and flight)

I had to repeat the name three times, the officer going back and forth between the names, had to repeat again the motive of the HOLIDAYS (as if that had not been stated and written on the application): result "The consul wants to interview the applicant" (my friend will be back in a week time, appointment made on that day, has to be there before noon and wait for the consul any time in the afternoon)

At first I agreed but I called them back and cancelled everything: it was simply too much

After so many weeks of seach, wait, expenses (flight has to be bought beforehand, meaning 200 euros charge per person for the cancellation, booking fee lost (as a confirmed reservation has to be presented)

You can tell me anything about how right they are about security I tell you that it was a dreadful experience which ony had the result to let me think that we were going to spend an horendous stay in Israel (if we ever were to be allowed to board the plane, enter the airport, enter the country etc...)

I thought that these measures were taken to prevent attacks but now I can tell you that they are even stopping their friends

The reasons why I decided to cancel are: 1) we are flying to Europe mid June meaning that if the visa were to be refused w<e would not have time to organise ourselves properly 2) As I have already said my friend is quite fragile and I don't want anyone to have a go with questionning our plans

I am not angry I am just disgusted

Paranoia leads them to bar one of their own and their friends

I'll just leave it at it and will find a destination where our money is welcome and where we can plan ahead what we d like to do and above alll ENJOY our vacation

[Jingthing]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't notice that you ever mentioned the NATIONALITY of your friend seeking to tourist visa for Israel. As you know many first world countries screen tourist visas from nationals of countries that have a strong tendency to be economic refugees quite strictly. For example, Thais applying for tourist visas for the USA of course an interview is always required. I don't see how you can assume the extra hassles were related to security in the case of your friend. Depending on the nationality, more likely it was a quite a normal protection against illegal workers, and yes there are many such in Israel (such as Filipinos). Cheers.

Regarding the tired old anti-Israeli tourists rants, of course there is a big difference between the young Israeli after army break tourists (who probably do deserve their bad press) and more mature Israelis.

Its too bad your holiday plans didn't work out exactly for you, but all countries have their visa rules, and its always take it or leave it ...

Edited May 25, 2009 by Jingthing

[alyx]

Hey Jingthing: my friend is thai (finacially sound) and has an almost two decades of visa history to different countries to Europe, then to Schenghen and of course to Asia

I also have had a long conversation with some official: Trust me it is a security issue (and the visa was not refused: I just took the decision to stop being bullied). It was just the last straw and decided to have the application cancelled (I do reckon that the interview was in the line of the application but at the time it was simply too much to bear)

Of course, as you might understand, I have not been able to detail the case as accuratly as I would have liked...

[bangkokrick]

Why would anyone want to plan a holiday in Israel. What is your next plan Beirut or maybe Kabul? What do you expect a happy time?

Stupid post.

How is ot Thai related?

Rick

[Jingthing]

It's in the visas to other countries section and also it involves a Thai, so of course it is a relevant topic. So you say it is a security issue yet you can't tell us why you think that. Whatever ... Like I said, many countries are tough on even tourist visas for Thai nationals and an interview request is not exactly shocking in such cases.

Why would anyone want to plan a holiday in Israel.

You are kidding, right. Tourism to Israel is very popular. Attractions include some of the most important religious sites for Muslims, Jews, and Christians and there is the famous nightlife and great beaches in cosmopolitan Tel Aviv.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

It's in the visas to other countries section and also it involves a Thai, so of course it is a relevant topic. So you say it is a security issue yet you can't tell us why you think that. Whatever ... Like I said, many countries are tough on even tourist visas for Thai nationals and an interview request is not exactly shocking in such cases.

Why would anyone want to plan a holiday in Israel.

You are kidding, right. Tourism to Israel is very popular. Attractions include some of the most important religious sites for Muslims, Jews, and Christians and there is the famous nightlife and great beaches in cosmopolitan Tel Aviv.

So you want me to tell you why Israel is has security issue?

Rick

Edited May 27, 2009 by bangkokrick

[Jingthing]

So you want me to tell you why Israel is has security issue?

Rick

No, everyone knows that. But it remains a relatively safe place for tourists if they stick to the beaten paths.

The point is the OP is a westerner and didn't need a visa. His Thai friend did. This is typical for traveling to some first world countries, which Israel happens to be as it is a draw for some third world workers. Not saying this is pleasant or fair.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

So you want me to tell you why Israel is has security issue?

Rick

No, everyone knows that. But it remains a relatively safe place for tourists if they stick to the beaten paths.

The point is the OP is a westerner and didn't need a visa. His Thai friend did. This is typical for traveling to some first world countries, which Israel happens to be as it is a draw for some third world workers.

I need a visa for Thailand my wife does not. Whats your point.

Rick

[Jingthing]

I need a visa for Thailand my wife does not. Whats your point.

Rick

Your wife is what nationality? My point is first world countries often put up high barriers for nationals of countries with large numbers of people who have shown they have a strong tendency to become illegal aliens. Thailand is still a poor country. Figure it out, you are smart enough I gather.

Many people don't know that there are many SE Asian workers in Israel, and some are illegal. Well, now you know.

Maybe the Israelis did have a security issue with the OP's friend. How can we know, the OP did not provide details?

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

I need a visa for Thailand my wife does not. Whats your point.

Rick

Your wife is what nationality? My point is first world countries often put up high barriers for nationals of countries with large numbers of people who have shown they have a strong tendency to become illegal aliens. Thailand is still a poor country. Figure it out, you are smart enough I gather.

Obviously not smart enough. My wife is Thai and I am English and because our history which goes back for centuries we English can travel where ever we want. My wife can not maybe because Thailand has never been a major player.

Who knows?

Rick

[Jingthing]

My wife can not maybe because Thailand has never been a major player.

There you have it. Your wife cannot. I find it hard to believe this issue is news to you. Try having her apply for a tourist visa to the USA. Its often possible to get of course but you have to go through the gauntlet.

Of course a Thai national does not need a visa for Thailand. Are you going for most absurd, irrelevant assertion of the month?

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

My wife can not maybe because Thailand has never been a major player.

There you have it. Your wife cannot. I find it hard to believe this issue is news to you. Try having her apply for a tourist visa to the USA. Its often possible to get of course but you have to go through the gauntlet.

Of course a Thai national does not need a visa for Thailand. Are you going for most absurd, irrelevant assertion of the month?

Looks like you beat me to it.

Rick

[Jingthing]

Looks like you beat me to it.

Rick

Let me guess. You don't like Israel? Join the club. They are a sovereign country, they have visa rules, just like Thailand, just like the UK, take it or leave it. I will never visit there myself as I agree with you, having to even think about getting bombed on a bus, beach, or market is no picnic. On the other hand, I do see why so many would like to visit there, especially religious types.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[Boo]

relevance to topic - zero.

Please take it to pm or elsewhere.

[bangkokrick]

Looks like you beat me to it.

Rick

Let me guess. You don't like Israel? Join the club. They are a sovereign country, they have visa rules, just like Thailand, just like the UK, take it or leave it. I will never visit there myself as I agree with you, having to even think about getting bombed on a bus, beach, or market is no picnic. On the other hand, I do see why so many would like to visit there, especially religious types.

Jing there are not many places that I have not been, But Israel is not high on my list and i guess not yours.

Rick

[lekatai]

Why would anyone want to plan a holiday in Israel. What is your next plan Beirut or maybe Kabul? What do you expect a happy time?

Stupid post.

How is ot Thai related?

Well I wasn't going to post again,but I suppose I'll have to.No it isn't a stupid post.There are all sorts of reasons why someone would want to go to Israel.I went there three times.And I am not anti Israeli at all,otherwise I wouldn't have gone there three times.And it wasn't a "tired old anti-Israeli rant"from me.I was merely saying that,now being the owner of a hotel here,that the amount of aggravation that I(and more importantly,other customers) have had from (young) Israeli visitors exceeds the benefit of them staying here.Very unfortunate,but that's what has happened.As an aside,when I was in Vientiane,there were many hotels there that were much less subtle,in that there was a big notice on the door that said "No Israelis".I don't post here very often,and I don't often agree with "Jingthing",but there's always a first time

[angiud]

In Koh Phangan lot of Israelis. Nice people, little aggressive, but can understand... Like every country, some stupid, unpolite, racist, but the majority are nice mediterranean people. And...much better customers than many middle/north european people.

Talking of Israel, beautiful country, as safe as Thailand, many thinks to do and to see, friendly people.

PS: I'm not of jewish religion.

[ubonjoe]

Since OP has decided not to get the visa and this topic has gone completly off topic.

Topic