Stay for 3 months and you must leave for 6 months!

[paul_bkk]

i was reading the sunday edition of the nation and i noticed a letter to the editor which stated that the thai rak tai party had proposed even more new immigrations rules which stated that farangs who stay here for 3 months on a visa would have to leave the country for 6 months!!!!! when the visa ran out. this is something which i read and have heard nothing more about, but can anyone tell me if this is true??

[MaiChai]

Its on the Internet edition. To save links being broken, go to the Nation website for today http://www.nationmultimedia.com, and click on Letters on the left hand side.

I don't think the Thai's have finished with visa changes. We really need to wait till post OPEC meeting.

[taxexile]

Latest immigration policy for foreign residents may backfire on Thailand

Published on Sep 21, 2003

I have heard some disturbing rumours that the Thai Rak Thai Party wants to make a new immigration law that farangs who live here will, after three months, have to leave Thailand for six months before they can return.

What’s happening to Thailand?

Ever since the Thai Rak Thai Party came to town, the farang has been treated badly. Thais are known for their “smiles and kindness” to foreigners.

I just don’t get it. Don’t farangs get credit for anything they do for Thailand?

I’ve told some Thais about this policy and they are shocked.

I live here, I am not a tourist, and I spend a lot of money every month that benefits Thais. I don’t work here, so I don’t have a work permit, and I am too young (49) for a Retirement Visa, so what can I do?

I have Bt 1 million in my Thai bank account, and I am not a criminal or a terrorist.

I love Thailand, and I don’t want to live anywhere else. I feel lucky to live here and just wonder what is wrong with the people in Thai Rak Thai.

Are they really going to kick farangs out like this? It would cause a worldwide shock about how Thais treat foreigners.

I am from Los Angeles, where there are 300,000 Thais and nobody in the American government is talking about kicking the Thais out. In America the Thais make money, in Thailand farangs spend money, and this is our reward?

Am I going to be punished just because I love Thailand and want to live here?

Say it ain’t so, please say it ain’t so.

Very Worried Farang

via e-mail

[Butterfly]

I think the message is clear: Farangs Ru Ma are no longer wanted in Thailand

How many times do we need to hear it ?

[Nam Kao]

I am going to start a rumor here in Washington DC that

the LOS has WMD. :laugh:

[Butterfly]

I am going to start a rumor here in Washington DC that

the LOS has WMD. :laugh:

Don't do that. The "genius" at the White House might believe you

Do they have oil in Thailand ?  

[george]

i was reading the sunday edition of the nation and i noticed a letter to the editor which stated that the thai rak tai party had proposed even more new immigrations rules which stated that farangs who stay here for 3 months on a visa would have to leave the country for 6 months.

So just get a multiple entry Non-Immigrant visa instead of endless tourist visas or 30 day entries. Voila! Problem solved.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Paul    they are gonna get tough on the de facto residents, some of whom don't have any visa whatsoever, and border hop each 30 days ( now there's self flagellation )

Unlike you, I have a mistrust about a great deal I read in the daily press.                          

[Bob Chittie]

Paul    they are gonna get tough on the de facto residents, some of whom don't have any visa whatsoever, and border hop each 30 days ( now there's self flagellation )

Unlike you, I have a mistrust about a great deal I read in the daily press.                          

what are they going to do to these de-facto residents? As with other people on this board, i have asked at the border if there was any limit to the number of times one may exit and re-enter on the 30 day stay and they said no. Do they plan on giving these people any warning or will they go to the border one day and straight to PNG status or even jail?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As with most things Bob, the non conformists ruin it for the rest. I suspect ( speculate ) that the 30 day free permit will be scrapped. By Nationality, form a POLITE group to lobby the respective Embassies. The crackpots emailing the Thai PM are adding fuel to the fire.

[Bob Chittie]

Hi Dr.

I agree with you. Although, I have used the 30 day stay two times in a row after my tourist visa expired. Most recently when my back went out. Anyway, I have no interest in doing anything illegal here and that's why  I made sure to ask immigration if it was okay.

Although it is convenient, i do think they should scrap the 30 day stay in the interest of security just as long as that's exactly what they do and people who have used a few (or even a dozen) in a row are not blacklisted or jailed!  But if they also limit the consecutive tourist visas, I see that hurting tourism more than anything else.

I also agree that Thaksin doesn't pay even the slightest amount of attention to a letter from some farang. if you're a major investor or national leader, that's different. But I'm pretty sure none of us on this board are.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am a WANNABEE Bob. Alas, no person listens hehehe. But I am legal. Truthfully, I feel for the foreigners in distress, but to think they had no inkling of illegality defies belief. Even in the west, ignorance is not a defense to illegality. I know of Aussies banged up and or out on bail, so the Soothsayer's with beliefs about APEC countries being exemp from the purge are wrong too.

[ovenman]

As with most things Bob, the non conformists ruin it for the rest. I suspect ( speculate ) that the 30 day free permit will be scrapped.

I realize this is simply your speculation but what do you envision, making *every* tourist get a visa in advance of coming to Thailand (a la India among others)?

[Bob Chittie]

As with most things Bob, the non conformists ruin it for the rest. I suspect ( speculate ) that the 30 day free permit will be scrapped.

I realize this is simply your speculation but what do you envision, making *every* tourist get a visa in advance of coming to Thailand (a la India among others)?

To me, for security reasons it would make sense. There's lots of countries that are like this, even Australia. The only problem I would have is if they start refusing people multiple entry tourist visas or if they strat refusing to grant consecutive tourist visas to people who are not criminals or terrorists.

[ovenman]

To me, for security reasons it would make sense. There's lots of countries that are like this, even Australia. The only problem I would have is if they start refusing people multiple entry tourist visas or if they strat refusing to grant consecutive tourist visas to people who are not criminals or terrorists.

If you are truly concerned about security, don't let anybody in, ever.  Problem solved.

But seriously, there's been a lot of discussion about this very issue in Indonesia this year.  That government has passed legislation that would force a national of any country that does not allow reciprocal visa-free entry to Indonesians (i.e. just about any Western country) to obtain a visa in adanvce of travel to Indonesia.  To the best of my knowledge this policy has yet to be implented.  There have been howls of protest from the beleaguered Indonesian tourism industry that this just puts another barrier in front of potential tourists.  Likewise, I can just picture what the folks at the TAT would think of institutiung this policy in Thailand.

[Bob Chittie]

I really don't know how much the visa requirement would influence tourism. If someone is planning a trip here, would they really cancel their plans when they are told they must get a visa?

[taxexile]

dr pat pong

Truthfully, I feel for the foreigners in distress,

ahhhhhhh!! you big cuddly bear.!

[ovenman]

I really don't know how much the visa requirement would influence tourism. If someone is planning a trip here, would they really cancel their plans when they are told they must get a visa?

It depends on how much somebody's heart is actually set on Thailand.  The ones that it will cut down on for sure are the people who are "in the neighborhood" and might want to drop by.  How about the people who come to SE Asia, base themselves in Bangkok and make side trips to neighboring countries?  Making these folks have a fresh visa each time they re-enter Thailand would be cumbersome especially if multi-entry visas become a cannot.

In the Indonesian situation I cited, the concern there is this policy will potentially kill off casual travellers who may be in say, Singapore, and are looking for something to do.  Put a bureaucratic obstacle in their way and these folks may well go to Malaysia instead.

[easymoney]

Another angle missed by the goverment was that starting about 2 years ago companies that normally housed their employee families in Singapore and Hong Kong started relocating them to Bangkok. This was for several different reasons but mostly on economics, travel time for employees, good medical and international schools. They did this on tourist 60 day visa's with 30 day extensions,.At end of 90 days they did day trips to border or flew families to penang or Singapore.

These companies paid for expensive by Thai standards condo's and house but 1/3 cost Singapore and 20% cost HK.Well there will be anew relocation taking place and the losers are the Thai's who have Sukumvit and Sathorn Rd.Too the department stores supermarkets and etc.

One may think this is a small amount of families,but it is over 10,000. That came from one official that is concerned at lunch today. When he spoke this in Thai the others were dumbfounded as know even had given this any thought. He turned to me and ask my thoughts which I addressed only this portion and backed up his assessment and added the lost to Thai Air as most do go to Singapore to renew(4 times a year x's 3 people on avg times 7200 times 10k= 864,000,000 in lost revenue).This was a lower upper echloen staff meeting(breakfast club). The others started to grasp what they were about to do.

It could be and surley has been that these people were skirting the law ,but they were within the law and they made the move here because it was available.

I have many Thai friends and as stated before I am a naturalized Thai Citizen. 95% agree with the new policy and that is down a little from last week. Sometimes when you try to correct a real issue you bury the good with it.

[Bob Chittie]

One may think this is a small amount of families,but it is over 10,000. That came from one official that is concerned at lunch today. When he spoke this in Thai the others were dumbfounded as know even had given this any thought. ... The others started to grasp what they were about to do.

What are they about to do?

[ovenman]

Sometimes when you try to correct a real issue you bury the good with it.

That's quite true and I'm afraid that's what will happen if some knee-jerk solution is applied.

I question how much of a problem this is overall. If the people who would be affected by such a change in the tourist visa system are not engaged in any illegal activity in Thailand, they are doing their own visa runs, and in essence simply bringing money to the Kingdom and spending it, where's the harm?  If people are engaged in illegal activity, isn't that a matter for the Thai police rather than immigrations?

[keestha]

Only very few countries (if any) would allow foreigners to reside permanently on an endless sequence of tourist visas or visa free entry stamps. Take India for instance (and they need your hard currency much more than Thailand does), which gives 6 months tourist visas which can be extended for another 3 months, at the end of which you really have to leave.

Possibly Thai authorities might consider scrapping the minimum age (50) requirement for retiree visas, which would mean any foreigner who has sufficiant financial means and/or sufficiant regular income coming from abroad and who also meets the additional requirements would be allowed to reside (semi) permanently in Thailand.

[ovenman]

Take India for instance (and they need your hard currency much more than Thailand does), which gives 6 months tourist visas which can be extended for another 3 months, at the end of which you really have to leave.

But, you can apply for another Indian tourist visa once outside India, which of course is not the same thing as saying it will necessarilly be granted.  India also has long-term visas available (I have a ten-year multiple-entry tourist visa).  I don't know if any law stops me from re-entering India after having stayed on a six-month's entry.

Possibly Thai authorities might consider scrapping the minimum age (50) requirement for retiree visas, which would mean any foreigner who has sufficiant financial means and/or sufficiant regular income coming from abroad and who also meets the additional requirements would be allowed to reside (semi) permanently in Thailand.

That's an excellent idea and would make sense for all concerned parties.

[Da-Bear]

Well guys just get yourselves another passport from another country, always helps to have more than one when dealing with visa rules.you dont have to renounce citizenship of your first country in order to have a second passport from another one. Those born in the US should have no problem getting one if they can track down a grand parent who came from europe etc, same with those in the UK ,a large amount there have Irish ancestors amongst other origins. It's well worth the effort imo.

BTW dont forget the new US Machine Readable Passport rules in order to use the visa waiver scheme kicks in on Oct 1, if you want to visit the US and only have one of the old hand written ones you will have to get a visa or else a new Machine Readable one.

[haha]

thailand is nice, but so is the philippines.  and people can speak english in the philippines too.  if it gets too hard to stay in thailand, I would just go there.  another option is china.  many cities there where you can live a good life without having to be a millionaire.

and of course, why not live in the usa?  I think that if I was being treated unfairly somewhere, I would just go somewhere where I'm wanted.

guys.  maybe some of you don't know this.  but did you know a lot of thai people read the postings on this forum?

[redwood13]

BTW dont forget the new US Machine Readable Passport rules in order to use the visa waiver scheme kicks in on Oct 1, if you want to visit the US and only have one of the old hand written ones you will have to get a visa or else a new Machine Readable one.

This has been postponed until Oct. of 2004.

[Nam Kao]

Bush just found out about this and squashed H1B VISAS

to the US !   (go to Yahoo news)

You want to kick us out, fine we'll kick you out !!

DONT MESS W/ TEXAS !!

[DaveYo]

Nam Kao, where in Yahoo is this report of Bush squashing the visa.  I looked and cannot find it.  

type in the link - thanks.

:blues:

[george]

Sometimes when you try to correct a real issue you bury the good with it.

That's quite true and I'm afraid that's what will happen if some knee-jerk solution is applied.

I question how much of a problem this is overall. If the people who would be affected by such a change in the tourist visa system are not engaged in any illegal activity in Thailand, they are doing their own visa runs, and in essence simply bringing money to the Kingdom and spending it, where's the harm?  If people are engaged in illegal activity, isn't that a matter for the Thai police rather than immigrations?

Why a Tourist visa? There is no crackdown on Non-Immigrant visas obtained the legal way at at Thai Consulate or Embassy abroad. They come in single or multiple flavours.

People travelling on Tourist visas several time a year, are looked upon as crap. Krub.

[Serendipity]

This is probably the Yahoo posting (dated September 22). Looks like reciprocal nastiness.

I certainly do not support GWB but this link from a source in India, which iwll be much affected, he opposed the measure:

http://comment.cio.com/comments/13708.html

U.S. to Sharply Cut Number of High-Tech Visas

Mon Sep 22, 1:43 PM ET

By Alan Elsner, National Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is about to cut the number of employment visas it offers to highly qualified foreign workers from 195,000 to 65,000, immigration experts said on Monday.

Unless Congress acts by the end of this month -- and there is little sign it will do so -- the change will automatically take effect on Oct. 1. Employers, especially technology companies, argue the move will hurt them and the economy.

The change will affect the number of H1-B visas that can be issued each fiscal year. The visas are mostly used to bring high-tech experts from Asia, especially from the Indian sub-continent, to work in the United States for up to three years.

"The fact that Congress doesn't seem anxious to act reflects the political climate, with a lack of jobs for Americans," said New York immigration lawyer Cyrus Mehta.

"The pressure to change the limit will build up again when the economy picks up."

The Senate Judiciary Committee (news - web sites) held a hearing on the issue last week. Republican chairman Orrin Hatch of Utah noted that many U.S. high-tech workers are unemployed and the committee needed to find ways of helping them without hurting the country's ability to compete globally.

Vermont Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy said: "Given the weakness of our current economy, and the rising unemployment we have experienced under President Bush (news - web sites)'s stewardship, many who supported the increase in 2000 now believe that 65,000 visas are sufficient."

But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was critical to his company's future.

"We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced education, skills, and expertise we need," he said.

Elizabeth Dickson, director of immigration services for the Ingersoll-Rand Company, speaking on behalf of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (news - web sites), said: "In the near-term, we simply must have access to foreign nationals. Many of them have been educated in the United States. By sending them home, we are at best sending them to our own foreign plant sites, and at worst to our competitors."

Immigration attorneys expect the new rules to set off a scramble by companies to fill their slots early before the ceiling is reached. How quickly that happens depends on the state of the economy, they said.,