Why Is The Thai Language Forced Upon Non Immigrant Students?

[koolkarl]

Any non-thai children attending an international school is forced to learn the thai language. All of these children have a 1 year, non immigrant visa... in other words, an extended tourist visa. There are many more useful languages to learn in the very limited class time. I can understand immigrants learning the language, but non immigrants being forced to learn thai is unnecessary and a waste of school resources. What do you think?

By the way, I have contacted the school principal about this matter, and he just shrugs his shoulders so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

[jumnien]

Bye, Bye and good luck in your new home!

[harrry]

My view is that if you are in another country you should as far as possible try to be able to communicate there. If you are not wiling to do this I would not be happy to have you in my country.

[Carib]

Bye, if I were you i would go to a Spanish speaking country, that is a lot of fun too. Good luck to you and your family.

[abdulrahman]

1)Because the Thais have an exaggerated opinion of themselves!

2)Because many expats have(rightly)a poor opinion of themselves!

God save us from the Thai lovers!

[mangkorn]

Actually, that premise is not completely true. Some friends of mine have their children in an international school, five years running, and they don't know more than five words in Thai, nor are they required to. To my endless frustration, their mother is another one of those farangs - quite like the OP, apparently - who has no interest in Thai language, culture nor anything else Thai. She put them instead into a Mandarin class, despite the fact that the family will never move to China, and actually plans to stay in Thailand, indefinitely. The mother, incidentally, is a teacher in an international school; she teaches Spanish...

Irony just escapes some people. If there is any value to teaching Spanish in Thailand (as she believes), how can it be possible that Thai language has no value to people who actually choose to raise their family in Thailand? To my way of thinking, that is a classic example of an arrogant, neo-colonialist attitude. (My first language is Spanish, but it is of no use to me here, nor should it be. I don't speak English to Thai people, either. In the US or England, I would speak English; in Latin America or Spain, only Spanish. Why should Thailand be any different?) Thus, our friendship has cooled considerably over that time, and quite sadly so...

Edited May 20, 2009 by mangkorn

[Texpat]

郷に入れば郷に従え Go in ireba, go ni shitagae.

When in Rome.

[mangkorn]

เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วต้องหลิ่วตาตาม

And why not?

[Texpat]

There's plenty of examples recently, on TV, of farangs living or vacationing in Thailand yet displaying their disdain for everything Thai.

Their superiority complex is amusing -- especially when they're jailed for a spell as a result.

Hopefully, this one will just move along quietly. But I doubt it.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Texpat

[Jingthing]

I reckon a long sentence in Thai prison would be an excellent way to learn Thai, Texie.

[Texpat]

I think you're right. Gives immersion a new meaning, don't it?

Edited May 20, 2009 by Texpat

[phaethon]

I don't speak English to Thai people, either.

How do you manage that? I can't get the buggers to speak Thai. I had an exchange with a cashier in Seacon Square which was entirely Thai on my part and entirely English on hers At the end she suggested I "Have a nice day"... I asked her if she had ever considered learning to speak Thai?

I also loathe those recorded responses at the BTS station cashier's that end with "Have a NICE day" (I am NOT American, I don't do nice days) instead of a smile and 'khop khun kah/kap' they just hit the play button and hand you over to the machinery, may as well be back in London.

In the US or England, I would speak English

Good luck with that in the UK; shop, restaurant and hotel staff speak their own language of grunts and snorts and everybody else (in N. London) speaks Polish.

[mangkorn]

I rarely, if ever, have the experiences that you allude to. It may be partly because of where I live, but I also go all over the city, and many provinces. The short answer, I suppose, is that I insist - and persist - if necessary, which it almost never is, in my experience. I don't think a brief, impersonal exchange of money and goods with a supermarket cashier counts, though; that is not a conversation. But in a small shop, it is rather different. I have always found Thai people to be happy, nay, relieved, to be able to speak Thai with me: if not, they're someone who either wants something from me, that I don't want to give; or they are trying to impress me. In the latter case, I can empathize, but I'm frankly not very interested in indulging it, because I truly do believe in เข้าเมืองตาหลิ่วต้องหลิ่วตาตาม.

I concede that others' experiences may be different. But, when I first moved here, I was unable to find people who spoke English - even in places where one might expect: banks, telephone companies, the municipal district office, etc. So I thought, well, this is a country where most people don't speak English, and that was just fine with me. I came here to learn Thai, first and foremost. And I really don't have occasions (but for very rare, stubborn people) when Thai people are not happy to speak Thai. Maybe I'm fortunate.

By the way, I've never been to England; that was a rhetorical point. In Latin America, we insist that you speak Spanish.

As it should be.

Cheers.

Edited May 20, 2009 by mangkorn

[Jingthing]

Well my impressions:

-- Parents and children should decide for themselves what languages they are going to study. Children are sponges and that is the ideal age to learn languages. If the parents expect their stay in Thailand to be short term their children would be better served learning more internationally useful languages. On the other hand, if they plan to stay for some years, it would be good to learn Thai, and some other language as well.

-- Whether adults should learn Thai is situational. As a retiree in Pattaya, Thai is not necessary at all. English is truly the second language here. You can get by with English well over 90 percent of the time, and if you are really in a fix, there are always translators.

-- The Spanish perspective. NO COMPARISON WITH THAI! Spanish is one of the easiest languages in the world for westerners to learn. Thai is one of the most difficult to become even moderately fluent in. It is true if you move to the Spanish speakking world YOU MUST LEARN SPANISH. In Thailand, you may need to depending on your location and responsibilities, but the absolute requirement is by no means univeral here.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Jingthing

[mangkorn]

Well my impressions:

-- Parents and children should decide for themselves what languages they are going to study. Children are sponges and that is the ideal age to learn languages. If the parents expect their stay in Thailand to be short term their children would be better served learning more internationally useful languages. On the other hand, if they plan to stay for some years, it would be good to learn Thai, and some other language as well.

-- Whether adults should learn Thai is situational. As a retiree in Pattaya, Thai is not necessary at all. English is truly the second language here. You can get by with English well over 90 percent of the time, and if you are really in a fix, there are always translators.

-- The Spanish perspective. NO COMPARISON WITH THAI! Spanish is one of the easiest languages in the world for westerners to learn. Thai is one of the most difficult to become even moderately fluent in. It is true if you move to the Spanish speakking world YOU MUST LEARN SPANISH. In Thailand, you may need to depending on your location and responsibilities, but the absolute requirement is by no means univeral here.

Agreed, on all points. But, more than "situational," it is a matter of why you are here, and what you actively seek, or don't seek. If you do not care about understanding Thai culture in depth - which absolutely requires some language fluency and comprehension - that is a conscious choice; it is not just a situation. As you say, Spanish is the easiest of all languages for Westerners to learn; but if you do not learn it well (in all its countless nuances, across a vast geographical area), then you will never understand the particular latino culture in which you may find yourself - and they do vary, believe me. Puerto Ricans and Argentinians have very little in common, except for the formal language. But in everyday popular language, the two peoples can't understand each other, most of the time. Their cultural identities, racial and ethnic origins, customs, idioms, etc., are as diverse as one can possibly imagine - apart from that vague "latino identity," which none of us can actually define, anyway, truth be told...

In Thailand, the culture is far more inscrutable, to Westerners. Clearly, Europeans and North Americans surely always do "think" they understand other cultures, as all the knee-jerk opinions spewed all over the ThaiVisa forums demonstrate so crudely. But that is pure folly. Unless one has endeavored to immerse oneself, to some reasonable extent - which implies language comprehension - then he doesn't know much (no matter what he "thinks" he knows).

Cheers.

Edited May 20, 2009 by mangkorn

[loong]

I would agree that if a family is staying for a short while, maybe a work placement for a year, then Thai language would possibly be of little use to the child in future.

OP there are probably other schools that don't have to include Thai language study.

[desi]

...so I am relocating my family to a more reasonable country.

All because of an International school?

As for being 'reasonable', I assumed it was the norm at International schools around the world.

When my son boarded at an International school in France, he took French and Spanish. The majority of the students - I'd say 99% - were from English speaking countries (UK, US, Canada) so they were all taking on two foreign languages.

The International school on Borneo taught Malay.

So sure, I'm not surprised that in Thailand, the students are supposed to learn Thai in Thailand.

But if you think about it, learning any foreign language is not a waste of time as the process opens up the brain in new ways. Spanish, French, etc, are relatively easy for English speakers to take on. Thai, being tonal, just might be easier to learn at an early age. And who knows, learning a tonal language could open up opportunities in the future of your child.

[PeaceBlondie]

Real, certified-in-the-West international schools 'force' all students to learn all lessons in English. Some also teach Thai as option, or required. Children attending school here should learn Thai.

[auserb]

1)Because the Thais have an exaggerated opinion of themselves!

2)Because many expats have(rightly)a poor opinion of themselves!

God save us from the Thai lovers!

I kind-a agree with your coment...

There is a truth in all of your sugestions

[MKAsok]

Agreed, on all points. But, more than "situational," it is a matter of why you are here, and what you actively seek, or don't seek. If you do not care about understanding Thai culture in depth - which absolutely requires some language fluency and comprehension - that is a conscious choice; it is not just a situation.

In Thailand, the culture is far more inscrutable, to Westerners. Clearly, Europeans and North Americans surely always do "think" they understand other cultures, as all the knee-jerk opinions spewed all over the ThaiVisa forums demonstrate so crudely. But that is pure folly. Unless one has endeavored to immerse oneself, to some reasonable extent - which implies language comprehension - then he doesn't know much (no matter what he "thinks" he knows).

Great points. Language and culture are truly inextricable and no more so than here. I really don't believe it's possible to attain any kind of meaningful understanding of Thai culture without at least a reasonable understanding of the language.

[meadish_sweetball]

The longer I stay, the less I know.

[oldsparrow]

ทุกท่านรู้หรือเปล่าครับว่า พอลล่า เทเลอร์ เขียนภาษาไทยไม่ได้? ผมว่าน่าสงสารนะ

บางครั้งผมเห็นตามห้างในกรุงเทพฯ พ่อแม่บางคนพูดกับลูกเล็กๆ เป็นภาษาอังกฤษ ทั้งที่ตัวลูกก็เด็กขนาดพูดภาษาไทยยังไม่ได้เลย อันนี้ขำมากกว่าเพราะภาษาอังกฤษที่พ่อแม่พูดก็ถูกๆ ผิดๆ

[oldsparrow]

ปล. เวลาพอลล่าถ่ายรูปโฆษณาอะไรที่มีข้อความประกอบ คนอื่นต้องเขียนข้อความ พอลล่าเซ็นชื่ออย่างเดียว เพื่อนผมเขาทำนิตยสารเขาเคยเขียนแทนครับ

[seesip]

From what I understand, at Prem only Thai nationals are required to study Thai. Expat kids have the option of studying another language. Having said that, I think all kids should study Thai--relatively speaking no schools in the U.S. would let foreign students choose another language over English.

Regarding the difficulty of Thai vs. languages like Spanish for example, Thai can be hard early on because tones are hard for a Western ear to get used to. But verb conjugation, tense, etc. are way easier than Spanish or French imho.

And for the kids who are only here temporarily, learning Thai is still a great option in terms of getting a mental workout.... language study seems to be equal parts future usefulness, and brain exercise.

[kriswillems]

If the thread starter would stay here for less than 1 year, I can understand his opinion. But in any other case I have to disagree for 3 reasons:

- Specialization and generalization are not mutually exclusive. You can never know too much.

- Learning Thai while living in Thailand is probably the most useful thing you can do. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable.

- Out of respect for the people of this country you should have at least basic understanding of their language and culture.

[Rikker]

The longer I stay, the less I know.

I love that. This is why my blog is titled Thai 101, despite the sometimes arcane or advanced content.

[koolkarl]

If the thread starter would stay here for less than 1 year, I can understand his opinion. But in any other case I have to disagree for 3 reasons:

- Specialization and generalization are not mutually exclusive. You can never know too much.

- Learning Thai while living in Thailand is probably the most useful thing you can do. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable.

- Out of respect for the people of this country you should have at least basic understanding of their language and culture.

We are in this country temporarily. International schools cost a lot of money and the kids are only in school 6 months of the year. Neither parent is thai nor speaks thai. International schools teach in english and that is why my kids were placed there in the first place. Most importantly, my kids have a NON IMMIGRANT VISA, in other words, if they don't attend school here, they get kicked out of the country, complete with their 10 words of thai which is useless outside of this country. Learning the thai language in an international school has nothing to do with respect for this country.

[harrry]

We are in this country temporarily. International schools cost a lot of money and the kids are only in school 6 months of the year. Neither parent is thai nor speaks thai. International schools teach in english and that is why my kids were placed there in the first place. Most importantly, my kids have a NON IMMIGRANT VISA, in other words, if they don't attend school here, they get kicked out of the country, complete with their 10 words of thai which is useless outside of this country. Learning the thai language in an international school has nothing to do with respect for this country.

Maybe it is time then to reconsider your need to stay in this country if your require it to be exactly like home

[PeaceBlondie]

School age children are full-time students. International schools have more important duties tnan turning Scottish, German, Korean, etc. students into Thai citizens. The analogy of how immigrant foreigners are turned into voting citizens does not apply here.

[kriswillems]

If the thread starter would stay here for less than 1 year, I can understand his opinion. But in any other case I have to disagree for 3 reasons:

- Specialization and generalization are not mutually exclusive. You can never know too much.

- Learning Thai while living in Thailand is probably the most useful thing you can do. It will make life much easier and more enjoyable.

- Out of respect for the people of this country you should have at least basic understanding of their language and culture.

We are in this country temporarily. International schools cost a lot of money and the kids are only in school 6 months of the year. Neither parent is thai nor speaks thai. International schools teach in english and that is why my kids were placed there in the first place. Most importantly, my kids have a NON IMMIGRANT VISA, in other words, if they don't attend school here, they get kicked out of the country, complete with their 10 words of thai which is useless outside of this country. Learning the thai language in an international school has nothing to do with respect for this country.

Your children might face some difficulties, staying less than 1 full school year in the same country (only 6 months, while a school year is 9 months). I hope they'll do well. How can they handle that - moving from one school to the other, in the middle of a school year?

I live here for 2 years on a NON IMMIGRANT VISA. It's just a name. Most foreigners that live here stay on such a visa. We all get kicked out if we don't comply with the visa rules. I think the same is true for other countries. New immigrants in Holland are expected to learn the language even BEFORE they enter Holland (else they don't get a visa) .... so consider yourself lucky.

Even if your children would learn to speak Klingon language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language) it would be useful. A brain needs simulation to develop. And studying one thing will not stop you from studying another thing (the opposite is true, it will help you).

If you stay here 6 months per year, several years long, I think it's extremely useful to learn Thai. You will save a lot of time and money and you'll avoid a lot of frustration.

Learning to speak the language of the country you stay in has everything to do with respect. You use other peoples land, roads, restaurants, services and so on. You're a guest of this country and you are expected to be behave humble and grateful that they allow you to stay here. You're expected to make life of the native Thai people as easy as possible by fitting in. Learning the language is essential to fit in.