Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[Bertil]

I haven't been on any border runs since it reduced to 15 days, but isn't the regular Cambodian Visa (not the E-visa) one month multi-entry? If so, then presumably the bus companies only charge half price for your second 15 day run as you already have your visa?

Looking for Cambodian stamps in my passport, I see that all of them are single entries. No one has ever offered me a "multiple entries, one month tourist visa". Not even a double entries!

If the price for one double entries visa would be cheaper (if they even have such a visa), compared to two single entry visas, that would of course be interesting.

[Thanh-BKK]

To get this tourist visa to europe is not that easy. You need to provide proof of return tickets, accommodation and proof that you are not planning to stay illegally. Thais just can not fly to Germany, get 30 days for free and just keep visiting neighbouring countries to extend their stay.

What comes illegals in Thailand, i do not thing they are afraid that Germans will steal all their jobs. More likely they are also concerned on those few hundred thousand burmese already here and those few hundred thousand more that are looking a way to work illegally here. And i think all money they make actually goes back home.

And the thing is that Thais have protected their economy from foreign ownership quite well. In europe this is not done. You are comparing apples to oranges again.

We all agree here that it would be nice to get free unlimited stay, free beer and p*#&y but i'm afraid that's not gonna happen. And the fact is that if you afford to do border run every two weeks you also afford to get yourself tourist visa every three months of so. Actually it is cheaper. So why not just do it, can't think any other reason than you know that you gonna be refused due some history here if you go the more expensive and inconvenient way of border running every two weeks.

Hi.

Actually to go to Germany all you need is a "sponsor" in Germany. Could be a friend (Thai already living there), employer, pimp or whatever as long as that person has a certain income and can prove it. If said person owns land/house to accomodate the Thai person wanting to travel then it's no issue. And that's for Germany where it is notoriously difficult to get in, other countries may make it easier. Only if no such "sponsor" is available the Thai person willing to travel has to show their own intend to return, steady income/job in Thailand etc. I know it because i once tried to get a Visa for my boyfriend - no way because no sponsor (i myself don't count as i'm living here in Thailand).

The Burmese you mentioned that are working illegally, i doubt that they have either appropriate visas, entry stamps or even passports. Whole different ballpark compared to western "border runners" who at least try to stay legal to their limited abilities. And yes, you're right - mentioned Burmese likely send their money home, as is always the case when someone from a poorer country lives/works in a richer country. Hence i repeat my question again - what danger comes from the WESTERN border runners..?

If someone compares apples to oranges between you and me then that is not me

For myself, i don't need "free stay, beer and p*#&y", for one as a gay i am not interested in the latter and i don't drink alcohol, which counts for beer, too. Free stay? I don't mind paying for my visa. I just don't like the hassle - why not implement a rule (as others pointed out and is common in Europe) to renew a visa (or change visa type, i.e. from tourist to business if you happen to get a job) at the local immigration office? Why one has to leave the country to go to an embassy abroad just to get a new visa? They should, in fact, implement a new visa class - for those who are not really tourists but don't need or want to work either. That's what is missing - people too young for retirement, rich enough to not need employment and unwilling to marry just for the sake of staying (i.e. already married to farang partner or, like myself, gay) right now simply have no legal possibility to stay long, other than getting back-to-back tourist visas with the hassle of having to go abroad to get them. Yeah, the "ED" visa..... how much does it cost again to enroll, and then you have to actually study to maintain that visa...... By the way in Europe (Germany at least) you get such a visa as well, two of my friends traveled to Germany on such visa and studied there, each for one year only to learn the German language. One of them married in Germany and now still lives and works there, all legal.

Oh, and i myself DO border runs - every three months. I do have a non-immigrant visa. But as i mentioned - the next round of restrictions could effect you - or me, we won't know until the day it happens. We should not laugh about the border runners now, we could be the next.

When they came for the communists, i didn't care - i wasn't a communist.

When they came for the Muslims - i didn't care, i wasn't a Muslim.

When they came for the immigrants, i didn't care - i wasn't an immigrant.

When they came for the environmentalists, i didn't care - i wasn't an environmentalist.

When they came for me - there was no one left who'd care.

Regards.....

Thanh

Edited June 2, 2009 by Thanh-BKK

[abdulrahman]

If the Thai government would state their Immigration Policy,regarding,on the one side the Burmese,Lao ,Cambodjan that works here illegally for a pittance and are exploited by the Thais,on the other for people from more developed Countries that come to Thailand to take advantage of lower cost of living (dwindling,that) and implemented their own rules,consistently,many would be unhappy,but nobody could complain too loud:it's what every Country tries to do.

But T.i.T.,it will never happen,we'll have the topic on TV for many years going on. And on,and on..............................

[gk10002000]

When they clamped down on the 30 day runs, I was talking to a Dutch couple. Every year they came to Thailand, travelling the country, they didn't bother with a visa, although they would come for 3 months. They made sure that their travels got them near a border at the end of 30 days, and maybe spend some time in the next door country. The rules changed 2 days before their flight, and the travel agent didn't tell them, possibly as the agent didn't know. After 30 days, and they were in Ranong, and went over to Burma/Myanmar. They were shocked to only get 15 days. They told me that after their holiday was over, Thailand was out for their next holiday.

The only people this will effect as the other changes are the legal stayer. The overstays just carry on and never seem to get caught, and as we seem to be from cultures where you don't rat on people. Well enough said.

My problem with the 30 day cut back to 15 days was the nature of my holidays. I am a contract engineer and I absolutely have no idea or advance notice when my contract ends. In addition, I work no where near my home when out of state on a contract. This is what made Thailand so great and easy. Literally, the next day after my work ends, I hop on a flight to BKK, get the 30 day visa on arrival and then start the job contract search while over there. I never know when my next contract will start. Twice I extended my stay by making the cheap and easy minvan border run.

It is awkward at best for me to get a 60 day tourist visa in advance as I am on the road here in the USA when working. In addition, most of the times 30 days was sufficient, and I had the easy and cheap flexibility to extend if desired. Now, the 15 day renewal limit is a real pain. In fact, in December 08, I decided to come back to the states instead of making a second overland border run because an airport was getting awkward, and expensive especially with the airport mess that was just unwinding.

So, my vote against this 15 limit is a big dissatisfaction.

[madi]

The world is NOT fair.

Shock of all shocks.

Some of you are raised by parents with money and educations while others of you are not.

Some of you have loving parents, nothing to do with money, and others of you do not.

Some people are raised in nations with more developed economies while most people are raised in nations that are economically far less developed.

All of this is so.

Thailand does not want Farang here as citizens or even permanent residents. Thus almost all of the Farang, nasty name, are forced to re-new their permission to stay in Thailand on a yearly basis if not on a monthly basis.

You are married--Thailand does not care.

You have children--you are still just a visitor.

You run a business employing hundreds of Thai workers--you close the factory--you lose the visa.

Now I know Immigration people are humans and often they do very kind things to allow us to stay.

I know it for a fact because they did so for me in the past when I was still in Thailand.

What we have here is some what like a lover crying to the other lover--why don't you treat me nice?

The answer is of course--because I do not want to.

Thais allow Chinese immigrants to change their names to a Thai name and then make up some fake papers about having Thai blood. Thus, these Chinese do get their Thai citizenship. Who knows--if farang had Asian looking faces, the Thais might do the same for them. But as you know--your faces cannot play that game.

The law might change some time but for now--NO Farang is anything other than a visitor.

OK--a few hundred might be more. Maybe even a thousand--but you catch my point.

This is to my Thai friends.

Thailand is missing out here. If it were to allow Farang to become citizens, Thailand would gain.

I know Thais do not think so but immigration improves a nation.

Oh well

Thailand is an independent nation and of course has every right to decide immigration law.

Farang have every right to stop visiting Thailand.

This is how it is going.

[madi]

All the people complaining are sure people who are beside the law and are hyding in Thailand because they have problems in there country,otherwise its very easy you go the embassy and you apply properly for a visa and/or workpermit and you get a proper visa.

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are european and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa .If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from,but probably you can not go back. Thailand get the name as a place where you could hide,now they want to clean up this mess,a good idea.

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

You are really clueless. Many of us, if not most, are residents here - not concerned with visa runs. The complaint is about insuring tourism is not negatively impacted for the good of the country. Your view of what is happening is not only myopic, but misinformed.

Residents?

Yes--for tax purposes back in your home nation you can likely claim you live In Thailand.

But by KNOW Means are most farang in Thailand residents.

A Resident does not have to report every 90 days.

A resident does not have to do anything in fact other than to renew the residence visa every 10 years or so.

Maybe you think you are a resident but I can assure you that the Thais do not.

[George4]

Yep dead easy to understand.........make them fly......so many people are scared to come after the nonsense at Songran bomb beer mats and coups they have loads of empty planes :0)

[Moonrakers]

Residents?

Yes--for tax purposes back in your home nation you can likely claim you live In Thailand.

But by KNOW Means are most farang in Thailand residents.

A Resident does not have to report every 90 days.

A resident does not have to do anything in fact other than to renew the residence visa every 10 years or so.

Maybe you think you are a resident but I can assure you that the Thais do not.

This is something that irritates me about forums....

You know exactly what he meant, you knew full well that he was not referring to residents in the technical sense but people who live here long term.

When in person it is easy to say to an answer like this "shut up, you know what I meant". Unfortunately though that is lost on forums and so people like you get to twist slight errors to your liking.

It really is quite pointless and does nothing to get your point across, whatever that may be.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Moonrakers

[MJo]

Hi.

Actually to go to Germany all you need is a "sponsor" in Germany. Could be a friend (Thai already living there), employer, pimp or whatever as long as that person has a certain income and can prove it. If said person owns land/house to accomodate the Thai person wanting to travel then it's no issue. And that's for Germany where it is notoriously difficult to get in, other countries may make it easier. Only if no such "sponsor" is available the Thai person willing to travel has to show their own intend to return, steady income/job in Thailand etc. I know it because i once tried to get a Visa for my boyfriend - no way because no sponsor (i myself don't count as i'm living here in Thailand).

snip....

Regards.....

Thanh

Sure i hear you, but as madi here quite correctly writes. World is not fair and sure there is lot to improve in Thailand and make it more friendly for visitors and long term young retirees. But for me it's quite obvious. They want tourists, meaning charter flight for few weeks max as they bring the easiest money and stay in hotels instead of houses boosting the hotel industry. They also tolerate retirees and people who marry here providing you bring in certain amount of money per year. Rest they see more or less being more trouble than benefit for them.

I mean one just have to look on the history of Thailand and their present laws regarding foreign ownership etc basicly preventing foreigners to control any assets in Thailand. And that's not gonna change i'm afraid and IMO they have the right to act this way. It's their country in the end. Naturally i would like it to change but i would not bet my money on it.

Western world does not discriminate and limit right to acquire property or control businesses based on nationality. I could take my wife and kid back to europe tomorrow and within a few weeks they would be permanent residents with free healthcare, education etc etc. But i do not expect the same from Thai government, yes it would be nice and maybe fair by western standards but i do not see it happening so i have long stopped complaining. In fact i still feel it is not that difficult for me to stay here long term. Now i'm with one year multiple non-O but without my marriage would be happy to get the tourist visas few times a year to be able to stay here legally. And i still think it is easier for me to stay here legally as it would be a thai staying legally in europe without a job, marriage or regular pension income amounting to local middle management academic salary. If they would follow same rules in Germany a Thai retiree would need pension of EUR 6,000 per month to qualify

[msaraceno]

So I am going to thailand for 3 months leaving soon: what is my best option?

1) go with a 60 day TV, get the 15 day extension, and pay fines for the remainder (how much would that be?)

2) pay for a re-entry on the Visa (can I go to cambodia with a visa on arrival?)

3) any other options from within the thailand? going to a consulate or embassy and trying something else?

Money is not a huge issue but hassle is. I have a flight home and clearly could show that hoping that perhaps they would give me more than 15 days. feasible? what should I do? Thanks.

- Newbie

[ubonjoe]

So I am going to thailand for 3 months leaving soon: what is my best option?

1) go with a 60 day TV, get the 15 day extension, and pay fines for the remainder (how much would that be?)

2) pay for a re-entry on the Visa (can I go to cambodia with a visa on arrival?)

3) any other options from within the thailand? going to a consulate or embassy and trying something else?

Money is not a huge issue but hassle is. I have a flight home and clearly could show that hoping that perhaps they would give me more than 15 days. feasible? what should I do? Thanks.

- Newbie

Get a tourist visa and then extend your 60 day entry for 30 days at immigration (1900 baht). No problem.

If you need longer than 90 days get a 2 entry tourist visa.

[Jungian]

i feel sorry for people who have a lot of money invested in a country that tightens the cord around your neck every opportunity they get.

If you have money invested in this country legally you are eligible for a visa I fail to see your argument. If you are here legitimately not working illegally or trying to get away with anything shady you should have no problem getting a visa and a work permit should you so desire one.

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them. If you broke the law in my country I would turn you in, in a heart beat. If you want to be a tourist that does not mean resident.

[Loyhaasip]

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are british and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from. Try getting a Visa for UK or USA if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for Brits to get visas for Thailand

wegion - you have said it all - I've been here since 2004 and never had to do a border run!

Stick to the rules, as you are expected to in any other country and you will not have a problem.

[venturalaw]

All the people complaining are sure people who are beside the law and are hyding in Thailand because they have problems in there country,otherwise its very easy you go the embassy and you apply properly for a visa and/or workpermit and you get a proper visa.

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are european and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa .If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from,but probably you can not go back. Thailand get the name as a place where you could hide,now they want to clean up this mess,a good idea.

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

You are really clueless. Many of us, if not most, are residents here - not concerned with visa runs. The complaint is about insuring tourism is not negatively impacted for the good of the country. Your view of what is happening is not only myopic, but misinformed.

Residents?

Yes--for tax purposes back in your home nation you can likely claim you live In Thailand.

But by KNOW Means are most farang in Thailand residents.

A Resident does not have to report every 90 days.

A resident does not have to do anything in fact other than to renew the residence visa every 10 years or so.

Maybe you think you are a resident but I can assure you that the Thais do not.

Legally, you are correct. However, I intend to remain in Thailand, although pursuant to a non-resident visa, permanently.

[JR Texas]

i feel sorry for people who have a lot of money invested in a country that tightens the cord around your neck every opportunity they get.

If you have money invested in this country legally you are eligible for a visa I fail to see your argument. If you are here legitimately not working illegally or trying to get away with anything shady you should have no problem getting a visa and a work permit should you so desire one.

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them. If you broke the law in my country I would turn you in, in a heart beat. If you want to be a tourist that does not mean resident.

I want to add several points to this discussion. First, the only people making a "stink" are the officials that seem intent on making a problem out of a non problem.

"Border runners," "pepetual tourists" are negative labels that are used by people who don't understand tourism. People that enter and leave the country legitimately are tourists. Some stay a short time; others stay a long time.

The solution for Thailand is simple: introduce a pay to stay system. The Philippines has done it. So has Cambodia. There are many other countries that have done it. And if this is all about MONEY, why not implement it in Thailand?

Some people seem to think it is easy to get a visa in Thailand. No, it is not easy. Thailand's system of visa rules is the worst I have ever had to deal with (how people keep up with it on ThaiVisa is a mystery, but I applaud them for doing so).

There is no consistency in it. It is a logistical nightmare. You never know where to go to get the type of visa you want.......the rules keep changing........the rules in various locations keep changing.

Thailand forces people to leave the country to get all types of visas.......that is total nonsense.

Once you have passed immigration you should be able to walk into any immigration office and get the visa you need (pay the money, pass the security check, get the visa......easy).

Thailand needs more options for people who elect to stay in Thailand for months and months on a tourist visa. In the Philippines tourists visas "morph" into long term solutions and the government has no problem with it.

In my view, most of the visa changes have nothing to do with security and everything to do with a rising tide of xenophobia. They are also linked to a strange and false concept: Lower to middle class people are bad; rich people are good.

You think I am way off base with the xenophobia claim. Did you read the Bangkok Post today? Now the govt. land office has issued a declaration basically stating that it is illegal for a Thai spouse of a foreigner to use his money to buy land or a house and if the govt. discovers that this happened the land/house can now be seized. THAT IS XENOPHOBIA.

For the expats reading this who think all of these rules changes are wonderful, please wake up and smell the coffee and stop patronizing these idiots. They are coming for you.......you are next in line. Get it?

One day they will start abrogating the grandfathered in rules. On that day you will finally see the truth. But why wait for that day to come? Good luck!

[Thanh-BKK]

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

Oh my goodness.

No, my dear, the people here making a stink are the ones who have no other option! If you read my post further above.... there are people too young for a retirement visa (which requires 50 years of age), too rich to need employment (or simply got enough money, after all Thailand IS cheaper than Europe or the U.S.A.) and unwilling or unable to get married (already married to farang partner or gay).

THEY HAVE NO OPTION!!

So how do they break the law..????

If a country implements a rule, such as the possibility of doing border runs, then complying with that rule and actually DOING border runs is not "breaking the law", quite the opposite - it is actually fully respecting the law. Breaking it would be coming into the country and staying indefinitely - WITHOUT doing border runs or otherwise taking care of visas. I do know people who did/still do that, living here without a passport for years and years. And apart from that bit they are not breaking laws either.

For goodness sake, just LIVING somewhere should not be illegal, no matter where.

Regards.....

Thanh

[JR Texas]

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

Oh my goodness.

No, my dear, the people here making a stink are the ones who have no other option! If you read my post further above.... there are people too young for a retirement visa (which requires 50 years of age), too rich to need employment (or simply got enough money, after all Thailand IS cheaper than Europe or the U.S.A.) and unwilling or unable to get married (already married to farang partner or gay).

THEY HAVE NO OPTION!!

So how do they break the law..????

If a country implements a rule, such as the possibility of doing border runs, then complying with that rule and actually DOING border runs is not "breaking the law", quite the opposite - it is actually fully respecting the law. Breaking it would be coming into the country and staying indefinitely - WITHOUT doing border runs or otherwise taking care of visas. I do know people who did/still do that, living here without a passport for years and years. And apart from that bit they are not breaking laws either.

For goodness sake, just LIVING somewhere should not be illegal, no matter where.

Regards.....

Thanh

The so-called "border runners" are complying with the law......yes, they are making a stink in terms of voicing their opinions about the crazy rule changes (good thing). I also meant that the real people who are stinking up the place are the people making these crazy rule changes.......they are creating a problem out of a non problem. They are problem creators. Personally, I like being around problem solvers.

[ubonjoe]

If you have money invested in this country legally you are eligible for a visa I fail to see your argument. If you are here legitimately not working illegally or trying to get away with anything shady you should have no problem getting a visa and a work permit should you so desire one.

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them. If you broke the law in my country I would turn you in, in a heart beat. If you want to be a tourist that does not mean resident.

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

So how do they break the law..????

You should include the entire post instead of snipping it and taking something out of context.

He was talking about those that are working illegaly or engaging in some sort of illicit activity.

And IMO those that are working illegaly are the people that are the target of this change and have been abusing the rules and caused these changes. Most people that are working illegally cannot take the time off to do a visa run to get a tourist visa so they have been making weekend trips to the border.

Edit: Everybody has the opiton to get a tourist visa. Vientiane has been giving away free tourist visas for months now.

So you can't say they don't have an option.

[loong]

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

So how do they break the law..????

You should include the entire post instead of snipping it and taking something out of context.

I don't think that it was out of context. people who do back to back border runs are not necessarily working or living illegally and if they are doing something illegal, it most certainly is not doing border runs to get 15 days permission of stay.

That is legal.

Besides that, a lot of people, I for one, are dismayed at these constant changes of the rules. I wouldn't even consider doing border runs for 15 days at a time except maybe a one-off if I need a little extra time.

This rule change won't affect me at all, but maybe the next one will, and that's why I'm concerned.

[Jungian]

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

Oh my goodness.

No, my dear, the people here making a stink are the ones who have no other option! If you read my post further above.... there are people too young for a retirement visa (which requires 50 years of age), too rich to need employment (or simply got enough money, after all Thailand IS cheaper than Europe or the U.S.A.) and unwilling or unable to get married (already married to farang partner or gay).

THEY HAVE NO OPTION!!

So how do they break the law..????

If a country implements a rule, such as the possibility of doing border runs, then complying with that rule and actually DOING border runs is not "breaking the law", quite the opposite - it is actually fully respecting the law. Breaking it would be coming into the country and staying indefinitely - WITHOUT doing border runs or otherwise taking care of visas. I do know people who did/still do that, living here without a passport for years and years. And apart from that bit they are not breaking laws either.

For goodness sake, just LIVING somewhere should not be illegal, no matter where.

Regards.....

Thanh

If they have so much money as you say, as an acquaintance of mine from the USA did who was 26 years old and opened an art gallery in his multi-million dollar home here in Chiang Mai to entertain local Thai artists thus resulting in a legally obtained visa, granted he was into what he was doing and loves art but the point is all you have to do is something productive and it's easy enough to get a visa. Hire a lawyer from Thai Visa they will show you your options.

[Jungian]

The people making a big stink are breaking the law and I have no sympathy for them.

So how do they break the law..????

You should include the entire post instead of snipping it and taking something out of context.

I don't think that it was out of context. people who do back to back border runs are not necessarily working or living illegally and if they are doing something illegal, it most certainly is not doing border runs to get 15 days permission of stay.

That is legal.

Besides that, a lot of people, I for one, are dismayed at these constant changes of the rules. I wouldn't even consider doing border runs for 15 days at a time except maybe a one-off if I need a little extra time.

This rule change won't affect me at all, but maybe the next one will, and that's why I'm concerned.

The majority are doing something illegal which is why the laws keep changing to catch them. If you are a tourist there is no reason to spend more than a year touring and you can get a proper visa to do that. The second you take up residence you are no longer a tourist and in my country and most Western countries you would be deported and ban from the country for that, Thailand is a little more friendly. The first thing that comes to mind is most English teachers I have met don't have a work permit thus they are running to the borders or on tourist visas thus ILLEGAL. No offense intended there are plenty of legitimate English teachers and they have done a fine job with my children but they are legal and have proper visas, educations and work permits.

[loong]

Edit: Everybody has the opiton to get a tourist visa. Vientiane has been giving away free tourist visas for months now.

So you can't say they don't have an option.

I only read it quickly, but there is a sign at the immigration checkpoint at Nong Khai. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that it states that citizens of certain countries are required to return to their own country to obtain a tourist visa. This list includes the UK. So, unless I'm mistaken, for quite a while the rules have stated that, if from certain countries, you CANNOT get a tourist visa in Vientiane.

At the moment, you can get a tourist visa, but this is because the embassy in Laos is breaking the rules. Who knows, tomorrow they may stop issuing them with no warning.

[tartempion]

Let me tell you I paid 62 euro last year and took two visits to the Vietnam and embassy and one week to get a simple tourist visa, there will not be a repeat visit to Vietnam because of the hassle, not worth it.

I can also tell you I live 120kms from Vientiane and was it not for the 1300 Baht I need to pay at the border for a visa I would go over there each month as a day tourist.

Now I went there once and won't return.

So if Thailand would give tourists a free 90 days stamp arriving at Swampy all would be very easy and there would be a lot less border runs.

Too difficult to grasp for the authorities isn't?

Is it too difficult for you to grasp, that you could go to Laos, get a double entry Tourist Visa, and with extensions, you wouldn't have to go back for almost 6 months?

You got this wrong: I have a one year extension of stay for Thailand.

I was telling you I need to pay 1300 Baht at the Lao boarder for a one day Vientiane trip.

If I would NOT need to pay to get into Laos I would do a Vientiane trip every month (French wines there don't have heavy excise tax in Laos you see?)

Thus Laos and Vietnam are not getting all the tourist they deserve because of their restrictive visa rules, I was saying if Thailand would give free 90 days stay at landing (see Sillypore and Malaysia) it would be easier for many real tourists and they would get MORE tourists.

[dutchchiangmai]

I normaly never reply on the forum's because they are a good source of information, but with all of these nice reply's i can't resist myself. Don't mind the English writing too much, cause i'm still a Dutch guy trying to write in English.

I've been reading this whole post and all the reply's people are giving to this topic. I always thought that the purpose of a forum was to create a place where people can help other people with some good advise. And i read a lot of things the last day's but did not see any good advice coming the right direction. I only see people making fun about obout other people. Tsun Tsu one's sayd, devide and conquer, and that is what is now see between al these farang.

I you have a job here in Thailand and you've got a working permit and visa, good for you. Tell us how we can do that while we're still in Thailand. That shouldn't be to difficult and it would help a lot of people.

If you have a retirement visa, good for you. But for some of us, we are still too young to apply for that.

But the topic was the 15 day's border run for those who aren't in the position to apply for one of those visa's.

I do the border runs. I came here 8 months ago on a tripple entry visa, bought in Holland for 50 euro's. After these months i decided i wanted to stay.And then the whole difficult border thing started.

Who say's only people of the age of 50 can retire?? I have my regular income of 70.000 bath and i'm still not at the age of 50. So, why make it so difficult for me to stay here in this nice country. This is not Europe, America or UK were people can't do anything anymore. This is Asia. And like me there are dozens of farang who are in the same position. I understand that the border runs are not there for people like us. But there aren't any other way's of getting an easy visa, exept for leaving the country and return on an flight. Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months. Plus with the 40 euro's extention in Chiang mai. That's a 140 euro's for a visa for 3 months. And the trip is not one of the easy ones or the shorter one's.

So you see, not all of us are cheathing they way in to Thailand or are criminals. Most of us are normal guy's who wanted to stay here. And it would be nice if the Thai goverment would make things more easy for people like us. We comply with all the criteria of a retirement visa, exept for the age of 50.

So, if people have any GOOD ideas for the visa thing, we'll, please reply and let us know. Also with the Laos visa and the most easy way's for those. If not, why reply at all.

[Scott]

Immigration related issues are important to most countries and it does not just affect tourists--nor is it necessarily targetting tourists. There are a lot of trans-national criminals, criminal gangs, drug dealers, human traffickers and even terrorists floating around looking for a safe haven. Thailand, like most countries, simply wants to keep a handle on who is in their country and what their reason for being here is.

A recent thread about Filipino gangs is one example of the type of people here.

Hambali was captured here as was Victor Bout.

Lots of folks the authorities want and need to keep tabs on.

[michemiche]

I posted this earlier last week.

Hi All,

I just returned from working in China and whilst I was there I read an article in the China daily that stated that under a new agreement all Chinese mainlanders are now able to stay in Thailand for 4 months without a visa. Shame our Governments can't arrange deals like this. I dont have a link, but has anyone else heard about this.

My guess is that you will not see many Chinese border runners going forward.

Cheers, Rick

Can u let me know about this, my friend is chinese, living with me in thailand since 5 years with tourist visas and he is tired to be obliged to get visa every 3 months. Where and when do u read this ?????

Thanxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[dbrenn]

As usual they are completely ignoring the real problem.

For many people there are no real alternative or very poor alternatives to visa runs. I am one of the lucky ones that got my investment visa in place before they were terminated, but if you are below 50 and wish to stay in Thailand your options are limited.

'Give us your money and get the hel_l out!!', seems to be all they really want.

Most other countries don't alllow 'resident tourists' either. If people want to stay, they have to satisfy often stringent criteria regarding occupation, health, criminal history, family ties, etc.

Thailand is actually a lot slacker than most other places. Why should westerners aassume that they have a right to stay on without a visa, simply by lying and ticking 'tourist' on the landing card every 15 days for years on end?

[dbrenn]

Well, reasonable request. For long term stay. Get a visa.

Right. Just like everywhere else, Thailand expects that people get visas that reflect the true purpose of their intended stay. Nothing unusual about that.

[ubonjoe]

I posted this earlier last week.

Hi All,

I just returned from working in China and whilst I was there I read an article in the China daily that stated that under a new agreement all Chinese mainlanders are now able to stay in Thailand for 4 months without a visa. Shame our Governments can't arrange deals like this. I dont have a link, but has anyone else heard about this.

My guess is that you will not see many Chinese border runners going forward.

Cheers, Rick

Can u let me know about this, my friend is chinese, living with me in thailand since 5 years with tourist visas and he is tired to be obliged to get visa every 3 months. Where and when do u read this ?????

Thanxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

See this topic. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chinese-Main...ai-t268737.html

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

The biggest problem however is that those, who are involved in illegal activities, don't need to do border runs - whoever does illegal business here has a proper visa, be that tourist or non-immigrant. With the rule change they really only inconvenience the small guy.....

@Jungian

I can't really speak for "most western countries" as i lived only in one of them, but in that one i was involved in helping foreigners, mostly Vietnamese, through the system. As a matter of fact, as long as you enter Germany in a legal manner (i.e. with a visa of any kind) you can change the visa type at a local immigration bureau and you can change straight to residence. This is a lengthy process however and during that time you get (just like here) your "under consideration" stamp. However the big difference is that "under consideration" in Germany means the same as if permanent residence was already granted, i.e. you can work legally. Only in case it is denied (i.e. if you are a wanted criminal or some such) you will have to leave the country - and by no means you will get deported and banned, for that you need to break the law in Germany first. You'll get three months time to clear up and leave... unlike the gracious seven days they give you here. And you can involve the legal system which threats you, the foreigner, equal to a local - you can fight for your right to remain, this can and does occasionally take years during which you are still legal in the country (and can still work, earn money and use the social system of free health care etc). Try that in Thailand - you'll be in the slammer in a heartbeat.

If the system was fair Thailand would grant foreigners the exact same rights that Thai people are granted in those foreigners' respective countries. THEN i wouldn't mind a somewhat difficult procedure to get a visa. But having immigration rules as tough as Europe but the benefits of the African jungle...... something doesn't match here.

Best regards.....

Thanh