Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[lopburi3]

My take would be the count starts June 1 - just as the old 90 day count started from that date forward. Although do not know status of the person who was reported to have had number 1 placed on his entry stamp yesterday but it could be key if he had previous entries and they were just starting the count.

[Jingthing]

So if Thailand would give tourists a free 90 days stamp arriving at Swampy all would be very easy and there would be a lot less border runs.

Yes, and why not, many other tourist countries do similar. They want to stimulate tourism? Make visas EASIER. If this is about money, give 30 day stamps free and have a visa on arrival desk for 90 day stays for a FEE.

[stub]

Far too many poster here with the "I'm alright jack....sod you!" attitude...

I only hope their comfortable lives don't experience any difficulties and cause them to have any worries.....

To class all those who live here with minimal spending power as being unworthy or filthy trash is an extremely prejudiced attitude ....don't forget 'what goes around, comes around'....

Indeed. I'm fairly certain most people interested in this thread would never have considered doing back to back visa runs, even when they where 30 days and unlimited. We just see another restriction. Always new restrictions - rarely (never?) anything to make the system better for anyone. Tourists, expats, retirees, refugees, backpackers, businesspeople, investors - harder to stay here, harder to get here, harder to invest here, harder to work here. Thai citizens - less foreign money. Thai officials - less work to do, eventually fewer jobs and lower salaries.

You read these announcements and wonder when it will be your turn. Will 90 day reporting be scrapped, requiring border crossings like other non-Imm Visas? Will Ed visas stop being granted for Thai language study, or require a degree in linguistics? Will Thailand Elite 5 year visas stop being honored? Will Thailand drop out of the APEC card scheme? Will the bank account requirements go up yet again? Will it become impossible to open the sort of bank account required by Immigration to grant retirement or marriage visas? Will the entry stamp counter at the airport disappear (oh wait...)? Will you be forced to deal with your closest Immigration office no matter how impractical or corrupt (oh wait...)? Will consulates and embassies in Asia stop giving out Tourist visas to people who qualify for entry stamps because 30 days should be enough for everyone? How far will the ad-hoc requirements to prove your marriage is 'legitimate' go? Will your slim hope of gaining permanent residency become no hope? Any of these seem just as likely to an outsider with no access to the genuine rationales for these changes (just hearsay and spin).

[leebeeUK]

... I came here first time, September 2006, stamp for 30 days - sorted, back to UK end of the month...

... returned April 07, Non-Imm 'O' visa (tourist) from Hull, UK, and did my regular 90 day visa runs to the border, Aranyaprathet from Bangkok, Mae Sai from Chiang Mai - again no problems, plenty of time to keep on top of it...

... since April 08, have had Non-Imm (working) visa (& work permit!) issued CM - as I’ve now settled to live and work in Chiang Mai - every 90 days quick visit to Immigration, fill in the short form to tell them where I'm at - definately no issues...

... now on my 2nd Non-Imm working visa and, same again, just need to notify current address, at Immigration, upon expiration of my stamp...

… if someone wants to stay here any length of time, then I don't see why the options above don't appeal.…I've been here over 2 years now and haven't had a single problem in this department, just by following the guidelines, (right from the off!)…

... I can't help feeling a lot of people are making life difficult for themselves – a (costly) border run every 15 days?, sorry can’t see the sense in it!! - and blaming the Thai authorities for not bending over backwards to accommodate them...

[Maestro]

...A foreigner who has entered the kingdom four (4) consecutive times on 15 days tourist exemption stamps...

It will be interesting to see how individual immigration officers understand, interpret and apply the “consecutive” side of this new rule. Is the Thai text of the rule (Royal Thai Police Order?) already available somewhere?

--

Maestro

[threelegcowboy]

I was told from a reliable source about some of the culture of Thai Immigration Police.

These police are to organize visas for thier purpose. To collect money and to ease the process. Not to promote tourisum. This is thier area and they do not like being told by other Thai authority how to do thier job.

They make these changes just to show they are on the job and have authority to make you jump through hoops. It is more money usually. They have to have changes to justify all these meetings, right?

The mind set of most Thais is in the National Song twice a day. It says that they will uphold Thai tradition and keep it pure. It really upsets these folks to see happy mixed couples bearing children. Especially poor married. There may be exceptions to this as they do have feelings and probally have a daughter who....... In other words they have double standards.

So.....

TIP dislikes good cheap retirement visas.

TIP dislikes mixed married couples but likes how easy it is to extract more money for Thais.

TIP dislikes foriegners in general and would rather you just leave your money and get out of Thailand.

This is Thailand and it is for Thais and thier culture. Everybody else is a guest and are welcomed to leave. Economy or no economy.

Your free to disagree

[ERICPHUKET]

All the people complaining are sure people who are beside the law and are hyding in Thailand because they have problems in there country,otherwise its very easy you go the embassy and you apply properly for a visa and/or workpermit and you get a proper visa.

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are european and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa .If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from,but probably you can not go back. Thailand get the name as a place where you could hide,now they want to clean up this mess,a good idea.

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

[nick123]

Hi,

There's much to say about the new border run restriction, but guess most could agree that commencing a regulation like without prior notice is simply ... not polite... amongst other things... to say to least...

My passport is nearly full and consequently (because not enough pages for the Laos and the Thai visa I need to go to Vientiane) need to do a few more border runs before my new passport arrives. Have already four 15 day border stamps in my passport.

1. Would like to know if the new rule starts from 1st June, which would mean I could get another 4 stamps (need 2 max.). Or are they counting all consecutive border run stamps already in the passport?

2. Would greatly appreciate any input from anyone who has been to Mae Sai immigration since 1st June.

3. If they do not let me out the country at Mae Sai, would they do so at Chiang Khong if I explain that I will catch the boat to Luang Prabang and retrun to Chiang Mai by plane?

Thanks

How long does to get a passport? That's 2 months already.

1 The count started on the 1st of June. A report yesterday said that they are numbering the stamps.

A person got number 1 yesterday.

2. Not sure it has started there yet.

3. They will not stop you from leaving. You just can't re-enter by land.

Ubonjoe, Georges, thanks for your replies.

Ubonjoe,

was not in hurry to get a new passport, will start application this week because consul comes on 15th June to Chiang Mai, that saves a trip to BKK. It was just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs this time.

Your info is very valuable, thanks a lot.

Georges,

yes that's what I think as well. But what then: a 7 day transit visa? just overstay until until you leave?

Oh and for all those with their superior comments. Try to be respectful and understanding. Not everyone doing the occasional visa run is riff raff or what ever. Sometimes it is just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs instead of applying for a tourist visa in a foreign Thai consulate. Or maybe one is waiting for the papers to apply for a work permit... Anyway you guys have made your point. And keep in mind there's nothing illegal about it. No reason to repeat again and again your simple-minded comments. Sorry for you guys, if that's your choice to make yourself feel better...

Edited June 2, 2009 by nick123

[Thanh-BKK]

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

Hi.

Wanna know why it is so difficult for a Thai to get a visa for Europe? Easy. I have been involved with the joys of guiding foreigners through the system in Germany, i know first hand what i am talking about.

1) Most of the Thais that arrive in Germany on tourist visas are no tourists. They stay indefinitely and work illegally, usually either in the gastronomy (Thai or other Asian restaurants) or in prostitution. So far so good -however the money they make is to 100% sent to Thailand, none of it does any good for the German economy!

2) With a visa for just about any European country you can travel all over Europe, there are no borders anymore. Imagine getting a Visa for Thailand and travel to Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, Indoesia, Philippines etc on that visa, without border checks and passport stamps.

3) Once you are in Europe it is very easy to legally convert a tourist visa into a business visa (in country!) or go straight for "residence permit". This automatically (!) includes an unrestricted (!!) work permit, feel free to work where ever and in whatever profession you like.

4) Even on a tourist visa you can buy land and house, cars, entire companies.

5) If you marry you can immediately and without restriction stay as long as you please, again including your right to work.

6) Stay for over five years and apply for citizenship - you'll get it. And again if you get now German, Dutch or Spanish citizenship doesn't matter - you can live and work anywhere in Europe without any restrictions whatsoever.

7) In Europe the government actually cares for you if you get sick or hurt, medical care is free if you have no money and they won't let you starve or live under a bridge either.

Now what is the problem with Europeans in Thailand... do all work illegally as waiters or cleaners? Do they send all their money home? Do they take jobs away from Thais??

Then why all these bloody restrictions??????

Kind regards.....

Thanh

PS @those who say "i got a visa, all the others can get lost": The next round of restrictions could hit YOU.

[ubonjoe]

Ubonjoe, Georges, thanks for your replies.

Ubonjoe,

was not in hurry to get a new passport, will start application this week because consul comes on 15th June to Chiang Mai, that saves a trip to BKK. It was just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs this time.

Your info is very valuable, thanks a lot.

Georges,

yes that's what I think as well. But what then: a 7 day transit visa? just overstay until until you leave?

Oh and for all those with their superior comments. Try to be respectful and understanding. Not everyone doing the occasional visa run is riff raff or what ever. Sometimes it is just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs instead of applying for a tourist visa in a foreign Thai consulate. Or maybe one is waiting for the papers to apply for a work permit... Anyway you guys have made your point. And keep in mind there's nothing illegal about it. No reason to repeat again and again your simple-minded comments. Sorry for you guys, if that's your choice to make yourself feel better...

I don't think George said you could not leave. You can leave it's just they would not let you back in. They would never stop you from leaving for the stamp thing. Just go to border and ask if they will let you back in or not with the 4 stamps already. I think you will find that they are not going to count the old stamps.

There is no such thing as a 7 day transit visa. A 7 day extenions yes. At 500 baht per day it would soon be enough to buy ticket out and back if you overstay.

You should look into a flight out and back that would give you 30 days with no worry. Check Air Asia to KL no visa charge or stamp there. Also thats an option for a single entry tourist visa.

[tijnebijn]

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

Hi.

Wanna know why it is so difficult for a Thai to get a visa for Europe? Easy. I have been involved with the joys of guiding foreigners through the system in Germany, i know first hand what i am talking about.

1) Most of the Thais that arrive in Germany on tourist visas are no tourists. They stay indefinitely and work illegally, usually either in the gastronomy (Thai or other Asian restaurants) or in prostitution. So far so good -however the money they make is to 100% sent to Thailand, none of it does any good for the German economy!

2) With a visa for just about any European country you can travel all over Europe, there are no borders anymore. Imagine getting a Visa for Thailand and travel to Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, Indoesia, Philippines etc on that visa, without border checks and passport stamps.

3) Once you are in Europe it is very easy to legally convert a tourist visa into a business visa (in country!) or go straight for "residence permit". This automatically (!) includes an unrestricted (!!) work permit, feel free to work where ever and in whatever profession you like.

4) Even on a tourist visa you can buy land and house, cars, entire companies.

5) If you marry you can immediately and without restriction stay as long as you please, again including your right to work.

6) Stay for over five years and apply for citizenship - you'll get it. And again if you get now German, Dutch or Spanish citizenship doesn't matter - you can live and work anywhere in Europe without any restrictions whatsoever.

7) In Europe the government actually cares for you if you get sick or hurt, medical care is free if you have no money and they won't let you starve or live under a bridge either.

Now what is the problem with Europeans in Thailand... do all work illegally as waiters or cleaners? Do they send all their money home? Do they take jobs away from Thais??

Then why all these bloody restrictions??????

Kind regards.....

Thanh

PS @those who say "i got a visa, all the others can get lost": The next round of restrictions could hit YOU.

I totally agree with you , its a great straight and oh so true post what you just wrote down .

[humfurry]

Certainly Thailand is much farther from being a Third World country than are Burma, Laos, Cambodia & the Philippines

Thailand has regressed in recent years and is becoming more like the Philippines ...

Well, the Thai women certainly seem to be eating better...

[SantiSuk]

I think a lot of the criticism of the change is way over the top - for reasons that are well-debated elsewhere in this posting.

The major criticism I have of the Thai government is that all these changes seem to come in with immediate effect. No planning, no advance notice just knee jerk reactions. Most developed countries would signal changes well in advance to let the tourist industry react and adjust.

[sorry if someone has already made this point - I got bored after reading 3 pages of mostly the same debating points and no doubt someone will be bored reading this if its a repeat!]

[sassienie]

In short, if you want to stay and live in Thailand, plan ahead to be a "profitable" migrant and you will be welcomed.

Now, for the western trash (my words, not the posters's I quote) whose only plan is "to work for peanuts, scam, steal or beg enough money to survive", you won't be missed.

Maybe some people will found these words too harsh but for the benefit of people who intend to live with their family in Thailand, they should be said.

You have quoted in a few words the same as I have been trying to explain all through this thread.

No one welcomes economic refugees.

Migrants out of desperation to stay in Thailand are more inclined to be involved with illegal activities.

Migrants come to Thailand to take advantage of the lower cost of living and generosity of the People.

Many Migrants are illegal immigrants who come to live in Thailand to live off the generosity of others or find work on the black market.

If this trend continues and the plug is not put in to loop holes within the immigration system, than illegal immigration and foreign criminals entering Thailand will reach unsustainable levels.

[beechguy]

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are british and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from. Try getting a Visa for UK or USA if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for Brits to get visas for Thailand

Let me tell you I paid 62 euro last year and took two visits to the Vietnam and embassy and one week to get a simple tourist visa, there will not be a repeat visit to Vietnam because of the hassle, not worth it.

I can also tell you I live 120kms from Vientiane and was it not for the 1300 Baht I need to pay at the border for a visa I would go over there each month as a day tourist.

Now I went there once and won't return.

So if Thailand would give tourists a free 90 days stamp arriving at Swampy all would be very easy and there would be a lot less border runs.

Too difficult to grasp for the authorities isn't?

Is it too difficult for you to grasp, that you could go to Laos, get a double entry Tourist Visa, and with extensions, you wouldn't have to go back for almost 6 months?

Edited June 2, 2009 by beechguy

[loong]

This is absolutely a correct thing to do. I wish all those farangs who complain about everything here would go back to where they came from...........

Can you see a Thai citizen living as a tourist in Britain or the US for years doing nothing? It is hardly possible for them even to get a tourist visa for a two week holiday in other countries.

And this American idiot who thinks he saved the world because he built a house here, what a moron. He also has the stommach to say he paid his workers and wow gave them labour day off, wow what a benefactor. Maybe he thinks the Thai government should decorated him too and build a statue of him.

As long as you are in order you have no problems here and why people expect that they should be able to do whatever they want when they are guests here I do not understand.

And this money spending. What money do these people spend and where? The money spent in bars of various sorts does not benefit Thailand at all. Maximum it benefits shady foreigners who run such establishments taking advantage of underpriviliged people to work for them at abnormally low salaries. They could never run such places in the countries they come from as it would be illegal. Do these people pay tax? Hardly. At most they pay the absolute minimum required by law and the rest goes in to their pockets tax free.

So please stop this complaining about everything and since most of you complainers do nothing here from morning to evening you have ample time to sort out your visa problems in proper manners.

There really should be an award for the most moronic post of the month on Thaivisa. The one above would be shortlisted.

Another moaner who complains about people complaining (obviously can't see the irony, that would require a modicum of intelligence). Then he follows it up with the tired old classic "they should go back to where they come from".

There are good reasons why most Thais do not find it easy to get a visa to some countries, a previous poster (Thanh-BKK) has covered that.

The man who built a house has introduced funds into the country, employed people and contributed to the local economy. If you were capable of using your brain, you would realise that.

"And this money spending. What money do these people spend and where?" Well, you mentioned the man who has built a house, forgotten that already??? Also many foreigners all over Thailand are supporting families and spending money that keeps others in employment.

"The money spent in bars of various sorts does not benefit Thailand at all. Maximum it benefits shady foreigners who run such establishments taking advantage of underpriviliged people to work for them at abnormally low salaries. They could never run such places in the countries they come from as it would be illegal. Do these people pay tax? Hardly. At most they pay the absolute minimum required by law and the rest goes in to their pockets tax free."

This is so pathetic. Do you think all the long term tourist spend all their money in the bars? Maybe a very small percentage. In any case, maybe you are not aware of the high tax rate on alcoholic drinks. The tax collected from this certainly benefits Thailand. Most of the people that I know that have run bars have lost money, not made a profit. Your assumption that bar owners do not pay tax is based on what? It's not from knowledge, so must stem from your obvious prejudice. The few people that I do know who try to run a bar or restaurant cannot pay better wages because of the high rents that they have to pay to the greedy Thai landowners. What do you call abnormally low salaries and abnormal for where? Most farangs that I know of pay better wages than Thai employers.

Is it possible that Thailand is making and enforcing this regulation for a reason? Could it be to get rid of those who cannot get a visa due to, Criminal Records, Lack of Income, Communicable Diseases (can't get a health cert), or have other serious problems which would preclude a legitimate visa?....

Finally a clean-up is underway.

I have applied for and obtained many visas in the past without ever being asked for proof of no criminal record, income or state of health.

Getting a proper visa does not preclude any of the things you have mentioned, so what is your point?

Edited June 2, 2009 by loong

[ubonjoe]

I think a lot of the criticism of the change is way over the top - for reasons that are well-debated elsewhere in this posting.

The major criticism I have of the Thai government is that all these changes seem to come in with immediate effect. No planning, no advance notice just knee jerk reactions. Most developed countries would signal changes well in advance to let the tourist industry react and adjust.

[sorry if someone has already made this point - I got bored after reading 3 pages of mostly the same debating points and no doubt someone will be bored reading this if its a repeat!]

No argument from me.

You would think they could at least do a press release or somthing.

I think the problem with immigration rule changes is that are done as a police order and go into effect on the date they are signed. I guess they are not able to put an effective date on them the way it is done with laws and such.

[Jingthing]

We can speculate till the cows come home (or all the "farangs" go home) about the motivations of this or that Thai immigration order. However, the truth is not one of us will ever really know the truth of it, and to try to apply western logic to the logic behind these changes is ... well ... IRRATIONAL. So here is my theory as worthless as all the others: they are paid to do something, make some changes, and so they make any old change in fear of losing their job for doing NOTHING.

[chipperman]

I have a question,

I have for some years got a Non Tourist visa multi entry but as always have to go to the border

after each 90days each time but it's a pain wasting a day and the minibus trip to the Cambodia

border along those not too good roads. I have a property near pattaya with a company that .

I am now married to my Thai lady since 07 and my question is would it be better to get

my visa as spouse of a Thai, I understand I don't have to go to the border each 90 days

I have my lady spends her time with me here outside Thailand and have our marrrige Cert

that I need for my visa later this year. Would this be better than the annual Non Tourist visa

that I have been getting. Chipperman

I assume you have been getting multiple entry non immigrant visas of some type.

If you are married to a Thai you can get a 1 year extension of stay at immigration.

You will need to show an income of 40,000 or have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account in your name only for 2 months.

Thanks for reply, yes I have for some years been getting a Non O Tourist visa multi entry

and we have a joint Thai bank account with enough credit so I should be ok then when we

return in October, Thanks again

[ubonjoe]

I assume you have been getting multiple entry non immigrant visas of some type.

If you are married to a Thai you can get a 1 year extension of stay at immigration.

You will need to show an income of 40,000 or have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account in your name only for 2 months.

Thanks for reply, yes I have for some years been getting a Non O Tourist visa multi entry

and we have a joint Thai bank account with enough credit so I should be ok then when we

return in October, Thanks again

You have a multiple entry non immigrant O visa. It is not a tourist visa.

Before you go for your extension post a topic so we can give you all the up to date documentaion that you will need.

[loong]

A poor country needs all the jobs it can get, expats, tourists, foreign investment all create jobs. Why discourage ANY of those?

cause a country needs to stop scraping the bottom of the barrel sometime...

Well said, hit the nail right on the head.

Visa runners and backpackers contribute very little legitimately to the Thai economy and are more of a burden than an asset.

If these people were substantially of any benefit towards the economy of Thailand, than the authorities would not be creating hurdles and difficulties for those staying here.

I am sure that the powers that be have done their sums and concluded that the cost of policing these people, administration and controlling illegal activities far out ways any contributions if any, these travellers are making towards the country.

"I am sure that the powers that be have done their sums" Do you actually believe what you have posted?

It almost makes me laugh reading these posts from the holier than thou, smug "I've got a work permit, I work and pay taxes" brigade. Those of you who's income is derived in Thailand are usually contributing nothing to Thailand. If your income comes from within Thailand and you are paying taxes, so what? If your income comes from outside Thailand, you are no different to a long term stayer who is living on his foreign pension. A foreigner whose income comes from abroad is only contributing and taking nothing.

Jingthing is absolutely right, certain sectors of foreigners may contribute a small amount in the grand scheme of things, but every job that is supported is important.

Put some of the powers that be in charge of Big C and see what happens. They would maybe look and say, we sell a lot of instant noodles and make a good profit on them. Next time you go to Big C, ALL the shelves will be stocked with instant noodles. They will then be scratching their heads and wondering why profits have plummeted into a loss.

"scraping the bottom of the barrel" Most foreigners who stay in Thailand do not deserve this description. All the farang that I know are decent people who just want to enjoy life and be allowed to get on with it.

[loong]

Due to my US company closing the factory that I worked in for 22 years, I accepted a job in Thailand. That was in 1991. I worked here until the economy crashed in 1997. I had enough money saved to stay but decided that my luck and savings would eventually run out. I returned to the US and worked an additional 5 years at well paying jobs in order to top up my social security and my savings in addition to contributing the maximum into my 401K pension plan.............................................

Things have changed very little for retirees who HAVE planned for their futures. I worked very hard for what little I have and am quite comfortable. I intend to live the rest of my life here in Thailand in relative comfort because I knew that someday I would get old and would need to depend on my pensions to survive. Young people here need to think about this.

Gary,

The problem is that it really is impossible to plan everything. We don't know what will happen in the future. I had things planned, but not well enough, the recent financial crisis and the strong baht mean that I'm not as secure as I expected. I'm a long way from dragging out the begging bowl yet, but if the GBP had continued it's plunge down to about 35 Baht, it would have been getting very tight.

Like most people, you can probably only get an extension of stay of 1 year at a time. That means that you can only really plan your life in Thailand one year at a time. You really don't know what bombshell immigration will drop next year. These rule changes are getting more and more frequent and though they don't really affect me, I can't be sure how the next rule change will.

[loong]

It really puzzles me sometimes. They offer free tourist visas because they want to encourage tourism and going to Laos, although inconvenient is more or less a formality. What would be really innovative would be for them to come up with a plan to enable foreigners to extend their stay without leaving the country. After all go to Laos, hand over a filled in form and some photos with your passport and pick it up the next day. I don't understand the necessity to leave Thailand, why can't this be done at a local immigration office.

I didn't renew my year extension as the pound was so low against the Baht, I was reluctant to transfer at 47 Baht to the pound.

This meant that last week I had to go to Laos to get a tourist visa and will get a new Non O when I visit the UK later this year.

The trip to Laos was boring and inconvenient. I didn't go out drinking, just read my book, walked and went out to eat. My spending in Vientiane was probably minimal compared to others, I spent 7,500 Baht on Laos visa, room, taxis duty free and food. Tourist visa for Thailand was free. I can easily imagine that other visa runners' spend was double mine. Vientiane is not cheap. Maybe not such a great chunk of money, but when multiplied by the 100's of visa runners every day it must be a fair shot in the arm for Laos tourism. Thailand must really love Laos to allow all this money to be spent there. That money could have been spent in Thailand.

I do wonder how many billions of baht are spent every year in neighbouring countries by people doing visa runs. Money that could be spent in Thailand if there was some way of extending without leaving the country for those who don't qualify under existing rules.

[Jingthing]

What would be really innovative would be for them to come up with a plan to enable foreigners to extend their stay without leaving the country.

Yes! Yes! Yes! And a lot of other countries do offer this, so it is not exactly original thinking ...

[MJo]

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

Hi.

Wanna know why it is so difficult for a Thai to get a visa for Europe? Easy. I have been involved with the joys of guiding foreigners through the system in Germany, i know first hand what i am talking about.

1) Most of the Thais that arrive in Germany on tourist visas are no tourists. They stay indefinitely and work illegally, usually either in the gastronomy (Thai or other Asian restaurants) or in prostitution. So far so good -however the money they make is to 100% sent to Thailand, none of it does any good for the German economy!

2) With a visa for just about any European country you can travel all over Europe, there are no borders anymore. Imagine getting a Visa for Thailand and travel to Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, Indoesia, Philippines etc on that visa, without border checks and passport stamps.

3) Once you are in Europe it is very easy to legally convert a tourist visa into a business visa (in country!) or go straight for "residence permit". This automatically (!) includes an unrestricted (!!) work permit, feel free to work where ever and in whatever profession you like.

4) Even on a tourist visa you can buy land and house, cars, entire companies.

5) If you marry you can immediately and without restriction stay as long as you please, again including your right to work.

6) Stay for over five years and apply for citizenship - you'll get it. And again if you get now German, Dutch or Spanish citizenship doesn't matter - you can live and work anywhere in Europe without any restrictions whatsoever.

7) In Europe the government actually cares for you if you get sick or hurt, medical care is free if you have no money and they won't let you starve or live under a bridge either.

Now what is the problem with Europeans in Thailand... do all work illegally as waiters or cleaners? Do they send all their money home? Do they take jobs away from Thais??

Then why all these bloody restrictions??????

Kind regards.....

Thanh

PS @those who say "i got a visa, all the others can get lost": The next round of restrictions could hit YOU.

To get this tourist visa to europe is not that easy. You need to provide proof of return tickets, accommodation and proof that you are not planning to stay illegally. Thais just can not fly to Germany, get 30 days for free and just keep visiting neighbouring countries to extend their stay.

What comes illegals in Thailand, i do not thing they are afraid that Germans will steal all their jobs. More likely they are also concerned on those few hundred thousand burmese already here and those few hundred thousand more that are looking a way to work illegally here. And i think all money they make actually goes back home.

And the thing is that Thais have protected their economy from foreign ownership quite well. In europe this is not done. You are comparing apples to oranges again.

We all agree here that it would be nice to get free unlimited stay, free beer and p*#&y but i'm afraid that's not gonna happen. And the fact is that if you afford to do border run every two weeks you also afford to get yourself tourist visa every three months of so. Actually it is cheaper. So why not just do it, can't think any other reason than you know that you gonna be refused due some history here if you go the more expensive and inconvenient way of border running every two weeks.

[nick123]

Ubonjoe, Georges, thanks for your replies.

Ubonjoe,

was not in hurry to get a new passport, will start application this week because consul comes on 15th June to Chiang Mai, that saves a trip to BKK. It was just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs this time.

Your info is very valuable, thanks a lot.

Georges,

yes that's what I think as well. But what then: a 7 day transit visa? just overstay until until you leave?

Oh and for all those with their superior comments. Try to be respectful and understanding. Not everyone doing the occasional visa run is riff raff or what ever. Sometimes it is just more convenient to do a couple of visa runs instead of applying for a tourist visa in a foreign Thai consulate. Or maybe one is waiting for the papers to apply for a work permit... Anyway you guys have made your point. And keep in mind there's nothing illegal about it. No reason to repeat again and again your simple-minded comments. Sorry for you guys, if that's your choice to make yourself feel better...

I don't think George said you could not leave. You can leave it's just they would not let you back in. They would never stop you from leaving for the stamp thing. Just go to border and ask if they will let you back in or not with the 4 stamps already. I think you will find that they are not going to count the old stamps.

There is no such thing as a 7 day transit visa. A 7 day extenions yes. At 500 baht per day it would soon be enough to buy ticket out and back if you overstay.

You should look into a flight out and back that would give you 30 days with no worry. Check Air Asia to KL no visa charge or stamp there. Also thats an option for a single entry tourist visa.

Ubonjoe,

Again thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Understood that I could leave, but leaving and not returning at Mae Sai is not really a practical thing to do. Do not think that immigration will just let you pass there knowing that you cant return, that would be cruel. Thanks for mentioning KL, did not think of that. Will probably just go to Mae Sai next week and hope they start counting beginning with the new stamps. That seems logical and reasonable. Could contact the immigration office in CNX to make sure before but they might as well have no clue...

[venturalaw]

yes, way too many farangs on this thread thinking 'if it wasn't for me and my pension, the Thai economy would fall in a heap'.

No but several local wage Thai JOBS for each and every retired expat is not chopped liver.

...and would be more than replaced with increased foreign investment if Thailand wasn't viewed as the knock shop of Asia....

this won't change that impression, but it is a first step....

What an absurd thing to claim.

How on Earth is capping border visa runs a first step to changing Thailand's reputation or the way this country is viewed abroad?

Again, whiners using visa rules as a red-herring for their own deficiencies.

The same goes for people using a discussion on these rules to denigrate other expats and their contribution to Thailand.

Well said.

I can't be the only reader who is sick of the "dog in the manger, I'm all right Jack's" who rabbit on about how if they can afford a visa everyone else should be able to, and the only people who want to use the border runs are criminals and scum.

There are enough threads on TV about how there are hardly any tourists now to prove that there is a serious problem for thousands of locals who used to make a decent living from western tourists, and it would seem to be a rather strange time to be making it more difficult for western tourists to visit. Bordering countries with more liberal arrangements must be loving the way Thailand is continually shooting itself in the foot.

As for the more liberal arrangements for the Chinese, anyone who thinks hordes of Chinese are going to compensate for the absent western tourists is dreaming.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/tourismreview2007/10.html

This link is a bit dated, but you can see that Asia/Pacific provides the bulk of Thailand's tourists. This is likely to continue. Apart from anything else it is cheaper for them to get here. Because of the way tours from some of these countries are structured their presence is not so obvious, but they keep coming.

China has a large and ever growing middle class who love to travel and Thailand has always been a popular destination. These people do not care about visa runs. Any visas required are organized by tour operators.

Military coups and street demonstrations are far more of a deterant than visa changes that affect a few westerners. It is not a dream.

IMO another reason for fewer tourists from the US is lack of advertising. There are many many advertisements for travel to Europe, Australia, China, Africa, Mexico, and many other places, but nothing ever about Thailand. The only reason I ended up coming to Thailand was via word of mouth. Not one television advertisement ever.

[ubonjoe]

Ubonjoe,

Again thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Understood that I could leave, but leaving and not returning at Mae Sai is not really a practical thing to do. Do not think that immigration will just let you pass there knowing that you cant return, that would be cruel. Thanks for mentioning KL, did not think of that. Will probably just go to Mae Sai next week and hope they start counting beginning with the new stamps. That seems logical and reasonable. Could contact the immigration office in CNX to make sure before but they might as well have no clue...

You should try the border. I don't think the local immigration will know about it or maybe give you wrong information.

Since Air Asia started to fly from cmx to KL some people are going there for there visas instead of Vientiane.

Good Luck

[venturalaw]

All the people complaining are sure people who are beside the law and are hyding in Thailand because they have problems in there country,otherwise its very easy you go the embassy and you apply properly for a visa and/or workpermit and you get a proper visa.

Visas for Thailand are easy if you are european and you want to come for holiday no problem if you want to stay longer then get the correct Visa .If you cant afford the correct Visa then get back to where you came from,but probably you can not go back. Thailand get the name as a place where you could hide,now they want to clean up this mess,a good idea.

Try getting a Visa for europe if you are a Thai and then maybe you will see how easy it is for european to get visas for Thailand.

You are really clueless. Many of us, if not most, are residents here - not concerned with visa runs. The complaint is about insuring tourism is not negatively impacted for the good of the country. Your view of what is happening is not only myopic, but misinformed.

Edited June 2, 2009 by venturalaw

[Maestro]

Another off-topic post has been deleted. This topic is not about land ownership or the cost of female company in a bar.

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Maestro