Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[michemiche]

Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months

Since when u pay 100 euros for a tourist visa..... its only 30 euros and maybe less there...................

people are strange...................

[beechguy]

Let me tell you I paid 62 euro last year and took two visits to the Vietnam and embassy and one week to get a simple tourist visa, there will not be a repeat visit to Vietnam because of the hassle, not worth it.

I can also tell you I live 120kms from Vientiane and was it not for the 1300 Baht I need to pay at the border for a visa I would go over there each month as a day tourist.

Now I went there once and won't return.

So if Thailand would give tourists a free 90 days stamp arriving at Swampy all would be very easy and there would be a lot less border runs.

Too difficult to grasp for the authorities isn't?

Is it too difficult for you to grasp, that you could go to Laos, get a double entry Tourist Visa, and with extensions, you wouldn't have to go back for almost 6 months?

You got this wrong: I have a one year extension of stay for Thailand.

I was telling you I need to pay 1300 Baht at the Lao boarder for a one day Vientiane trip.

If I would NOT need to pay to get into Laos I would do a Vientiane trip every month (French wines there don't have heavy excise tax in Laos you see?)

Thus Laos and Vietnam are not getting all the tourist they deserve because of their restrictive visa rules, I was saying if Thailand would give free 90 days stay at landing (see Sillypore and Malaysia) it would be easier for many real tourists and they would get MORE tourists.

Thanks for clarifying your situation. I was under the impression you may have been making things more difficult for yourself than necessary. I think that happens with many people, and cause many complaints about the immigration situation, because of their lack of understanding or efforts to research options.

I agree the Lao visa fee probably deters some tourists, and that's unfortunate, as I really enjoyed my time there.

For Thailand, many people can already stay 30 days without a visa, and it is a simple process to get a single or even double entry Tourist visa. I don't think a free 90 day visa will increase the numbers significantly.

[Lite Beer]

Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months

Since when u pay 100 euros for a tourist visa..... its only 30 euros and maybe less there...................

people are strange...................

Tourist Visas are 1,000 Baht per entry. For the last few months they have been FREE.

[likewise]

I normaly never reply on the forum's because they are a good source of information, but with all of these nice reply's i can't resist myself. Don't mind the English writing too much, cause i'm still a Dutch guy trying to write in English.

I've been reading this whole post and all the reply's people are giving to this topic. I always thought that the purpose of a forum was to create a place where people can help other people with some good advise. And i read a lot of things the last day's but did not see any good advice coming the right direction. I only see people making fun about obout other people. Tsun Tsu one's sayd, devide and conquer, and that is what is now see between al these farang.

I you have a job here in Thailand and you've got a working permit and visa, good for you. Tell us how we can do that while we're still in Thailand. That shouldn't be to difficult and it would help a lot of people.

If you have a retirement visa, good for you. But for some of us, we are still too young to apply for that.

But the topic was the 15 day's border run for those who aren't in the position to apply for one of those visa's.

I do the border runs. I came here 8 months ago on a tripple entry visa, bought in Holland for 50 euro's. After these months i decided i wanted to stay.And then the whole difficult border thing started.

Who say's only people of the age of 50 can retire?? I have my regular income of 70.000 bath and i'm still not at the age of 50. So, why make it so difficult for me to stay here in this nice country. This is not Europe, America or UK were people can't do anything anymore. This is Asia. And like me there are dozens of farang who are in the same position. I understand that the border runs are not there for people like us. But there aren't any other way's of getting an easy visa, exept for leaving the country and return on an flight. Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months. Plus with the 40 euro's extention in Chiang mai. That's a 140 euro's for a visa for 3 months. And the trip is not one of the easy ones or the shorter one's.

So you see, not all of us are cheathing they way in to Thailand or are criminals. Most of us are normal guy's who wanted to stay here. And it would be nice if the Thai goverment would make things more easy for people like us. We comply with all the criteria of a retirement visa, exept for the age of 50.

So, if people have any GOOD ideas for the visa thing, we'll, please reply and let us know. Also with the Laos visa and the most easy way's for those. If not, why reply at all.

Agreed. Sometimes I wonder who gives them the right to state when I can retire .

They should realize that some of us do have the funds to live here without doing anything illegal but are still years away from being 50.

[dutchchiangmai]

Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months

Since when u pay 100 euros for a tourist visa..... its only 30 euros and maybe less there...................

people are strange...................

Ofcourse with busticket, hotel, taxi and all the other stuff. Duhh.

[BlueSmurf]

I normaly never reply on the forum's because they are a good source of information, but with all of these nice reply's i can't resist myself. Don't mind the English writing too much, cause i'm still a Dutch guy trying to write in English.

I've been reading this whole post and all the reply's people are giving to this topic. I always thought that the purpose of a forum was to create a place where people can help other people with some good advise. And i read a lot of things the last day's but did not see any good advice coming the right direction. I only see people making fun about obout other people. Tsun Tsu one's sayd, devide and conquer, and that is what is now see between al these farang.

I you have a job here in Thailand and you've got a working permit and visa, good for you. Tell us how we can do that while we're still in Thailand. That shouldn't be to difficult and it would help a lot of people.

If you have a retirement visa, good for you. But for some of us, we are still too young to apply for that.

But the topic was the 15 day's border run for those who aren't in the position to apply for one of those visa's.

I do the border runs. I came here 8 months ago on a tripple entry visa, bought in Holland for 50 euro's. After these months i decided i wanted to stay.And then the whole difficult border thing started.

Who say's only people of the age of 50 can retire?? I have my regular income of 70.000 bath and i'm still not at the age of 50. So, why make it so difficult for me to stay here in this nice country. This is not Europe, America or UK were people can't do anything anymore. This is Asia. And like me there are dozens of farang who are in the same position. I understand that the border runs are not there for people like us. But there aren't any other way's of getting an easy visa, exept for leaving the country and return on an flight. Yes, i can go to Laos and in the end, ending up paying more than 100 euro's for a visa for 2 months. Plus with the 40 euro's extention in Chiang mai. That's a 140 euro's for a visa for 3 months. And the trip is not one of the easy ones or the shorter one's.

So you see, not all of us are cheathing they way in to Thailand or are criminals. Most of us are normal guy's who wanted to stay here. And it would be nice if the Thai goverment would make things more easy for people like us. We comply with all the criteria of a retirement visa, exept for the age of 50.

So, if people have any GOOD ideas for the visa thing, we'll, please reply and let us know. Also with the Laos visa and the most easy way's for those. If not, why reply at all.

Excellent post and lets hope people take notice of what you say.....The main point you make is that many people come here for a visit like it(love it) here and decide to stay.Just because you are not 50 and cannot get a extension for reason to spend the rest of your life here does not make you a bad person or someone who is beneath others who can....Yes it does strike me as why the immigration authorities here do not take up on this point...After all let the police deal with the trouble makers, misfits and law breakers not immigration..If you are wanted for something in another country then you will be picked up at immigration when you come in...Yes you can go back home to your country of origin and maybe get a years tourist visa but it is a waste of money if you don't want to go and also its money you could spend here..Some one said on another post that it costs money for the Thai authorities to provide the option of border trips i.e.we pay nothing to go over the border but cost paperwork and man hours! Easily solved! We should be able to go to the border pay a fee to immigration say 500 or 1000 or more to stay for a futher 1 , 2 or more months..The funds raised could be used for schools , hospitals etc...yes that would be too easy as its Thailand but it would make more sense...Also its easy to be smug and think this new change of border crossing laws does not affect you but maybe the next change will..So don't group everyone as a misfit because they do border runs....By the way I have a extension for reason of retirement now but the last 7 years I did not!

[Jingthing]

But there aren't any other way's of getting an easy visa, exept for leaving the country and return on an flight.

It seems to me the easiest solution for those under 50 who want to stay for years and stay legal is the ED education visa. The number of hours you actually need to study is quite minimal. There are options out there.

[Lite Beer]

It seems to me the easiest solution for those under 50 who want to stay for years and stay legal is the ED education visa. The number of hours you actually need to study is quite minimal. There are options out there.

Here is another option for those in Chiangmai .

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Volunteer-En...er-t267810.html

[samran]

Well, reasonable request. For long term stay. Get a visa.

Right. Just like everywhere else, Thailand expects that people get visas that reflect the true purpose of their intended stay. Nothing unusual about that.

ah, but you are underestimating the sense of entitlment that people have that they should be allowed to live here as well. Somehow, they are 'better' than the same rules which would apply someone was trying to do the same thing in their home countries.

[exexpat]

Regulations are what they are. Not like we have any say, they are not there to like or dislike, only to obey or leave. Still I admit I've never heard of any other SE Asian nation changing their own policies as often as it is here. I hate border runs, they are silly and a waste of time and money, glad I don't do them anymore.

[MJo]

Some people seem to think it is easy to get a visa in Thailand. No, it is not easy. Thailand's system of visa rules is the worst I have ever had to deal with (how people keep up with it on ThaiVisa is a mystery, but I applaud them for doing so).

Trust me there is much worse countries around. Ever tried to get asian's into USA ? After 9/11 we could not get anyone in. Filipinos with previous history working in US took 9+ months. Malaysians with muslim names, some of them with uni degrees from US almost 18 months and one with US uni degree was denied permanently. And several interviews for all. Yep, special times but it is not much easier nowdays and these guys were 100% legit for 100% legit US company. Best one was UK citizen, been working and living in US several years and was refused entry and forced to fly back to europe as his title in his visa/work permit was entered wrong in the immigration database they cross checked at the airport...

I've been working and residing legally in six SE Asian countries, few in europe and americas and Thailand is not much different than others. Some are easier (singapore) some are harder and more hassle (Indonesia).

Only issue with Thailand non-immigrant visas and work permits is the amount of bureacracy. Copies of company documents over and over again and proving your address for married or income for retirees but if you comply it is easy. Not to mention tourists, pretty much automatic TR for all that have flight ticket to show. They even take illegals/overstayers right back after thay had paid their fines and visited Penang. Not like US or UK where you have to prove your finances, TB x-rays, have sponsors, insurance etc etc to qualify for simple TR visa and one small lie in interview will get you banned for life.

Again, yes i agree it would be better for foreigners, both legit and criminals, if it is easier to remain here indefinedly without visa and any payments. But again, that is not easy in Thailand as it is not easy anywhere.

Edited June 3, 2009 by MJo

[samran]

Some people seem to think it is easy to get a visa in Thailand. No, it is not easy. Thailand's system of visa rules is the worst I have ever had to deal with (how people keep up with it on ThaiVisa is a mystery, but I applaud them for doing so).

There is no consistency in it. It is a logistical nightmare. You never know where to go to get the type of visa you want.......the rules keep changing........the rules in various locations keep changing.

Thailand forces people to leave the country to get all types of visas.......that is total nonsense.

Once you have passed immigration you should be able to walk into any immigration office and get the visa you need (pay the money, pass the security check, get the visa......easy).

Thailand needs more options for people who elect to stay in Thailand for months and months on a tourist visa. In the Philippines tourists visas "morph" into long term solutions and the government has no problem with it.

In my view, most of the visa changes have nothing to do with security and everything to do with a rising tide of xenophobia. They are also linked to a strange and false concept: Lower to middle class people are bad; rich people are good.

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

In terms of visa diffuclty, the UK is much worse. Having migrated there, paid a shed load of money to do so, and handed over stacks of documentation, I can definetly say it isn't immigrant friendly. Rules and qualifications are changed, sometimes so badly, that a group of migrants appealed to the high court on the basis that they were now made ineligible of extending their initial visa having already been allowed to enter the UK, moving their lives and families there.

So bad in fact, that my mate has waited a year for his change of visa status to be issued, and they have kept his passport for the entire time.

Thailand is a model of consistency in comparison.

Edited June 3, 2009 by samran

[loong]

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

You do talk a lot of rubbish!

Perpetual tourists bring foreign currency into Thailand. It's a form of invisible exports.

Who spends more money in Thailand, the once a year 2 week tourist or the perpetual tourist who spends money here 365 days a year.

Perpetual tourist by spending money all year round help to keep a lot of Thais in employment the whole year round, not just 2 or 3 months a year.

Please tell me what migrants contribute to the Uk economy. Most do not add productivity, they are a drain.

Britain is already overcrowded.

................................................................................

............................................................

Why you people keep coming out with this Krap about how good it is in Thailand compared to getting a Visa for the Uk. Are you really so dense? You really can't understand that people from 3rd world countries want to go to the UK because they want to work or leech off of the state. You just can't compare visa regulations in Thailand with the Uk. Yes, it's not easy for a Thai to get a Visa to the Uk, but I would guess that it's a lot easier for a rich Thai to get a Visa than a poor one. A Thai can marry a Brit and become a Uk citizen with all the benefits. No chance the other way round!

You lot just keep on bleating "If you stick to the rules and get a visa, then no problem"

I think that most people who have posted in this thread (me included) are not actually concerned about this particular rule change. What they are concerned about is the way they keep changing the rules. You smug ba****rds can keep repeating "get a visa, get a blah, blah, blah. You just don't get it do you? People like you and I are living here legally, but the next rule change could affect us directly. What's to stop them demanding that you need 10 or 20 mill Baht in the bank before they'll issue extensions or work permits. What's to stop them making it impossible for YOU to stay here? Nothing.

I live here with and take care of my Thai family, but I have no rights and no real security.

Those of you with you high paid jobs and work permits. Have you ever considered what will happen once there are enough Thais trained to do your job? It's quite possible that you will be thrown out and not given a second thought. It wouldn't matter if you have a Thai family, because you have no security and no rights.

[Time Traveller]

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

You do talk a lot of rubbish!

Perpetual tourists bring foreign currency into Thailand. It's a form of invisible exports.

Who spends more money in Thailand, the once a year 2 week tourist or the perpetual tourist who spends money here 365 days a year.

Perpetual tourist by spending money all year round help to keep a lot of Thais in employment the whole year round, not just 2 or 3 months a year.

Please tell me what migrants contribute to the Uk economy. Most do not add productivity, they are a drain.

Britain is already overcrowded.

It can be argued that migrants to UK do the jobs that the English don't want (or a too lazy) to do e.g. cleaner, dishwasher, labourer. This is the value of immigrant labour. Conversely, it can be argued that the "retired" foreigners in Thailand do not add anything to the country. How is this? Simply they do not contribute through use of their labour or skills, instead their money simply increases the demand for goods& services and drives prices higher makes things more expensive for locals. (Imagine 40million "retired" foreign pensioners living in thailand, would that improve the living standards for the country? I doubt it.)

In summary there are always good points & bad points or 2 sides to every situation, so that any person can justify the side they take. Ultimately, stupid politicians waste time and money devising new strategies to combat some "threat" that they percieve only for clever individuals (that are not neccesarily breaking the law) to find loopholes. Tax money wasted. If there are any real criminals in thailand, it's virtually assured that they are living here legally with correct citizenship/residence/visa without having to escape out of the country every month.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Time Traveller

[ubonjoe]

People keep complaining and commenting about the frequent rule changes.

Changes in 2004, 2006 and 2008 does not seem that frequent to me.

The immigration act has not been changed in 30 years and it could stand some changes because it is so out of date.

This most recent one is so minor and will affect so few people compared to the overall number of people that live or travel here I don't consider it much of a change at all. Just a minor adustment to the last rule change.

[Jungian]

Hello.

The biggest problem however is that those, who are involved in illegal activities, don't need to do border runs - whoever does illegal business here has a proper visa, be that tourist or non-immigrant. With the rule change they really only inconvenience the small guy.....

@Jungian

I can't really speak for "most western countries" as i lived only in one of them, but in that one i was involved in helping foreigners, mostly Vietnamese, through the system. As a matter of fact, as long as you enter Germany in a legal manner (i.e. with a visa of any kind) you can change the visa type at a local immigration bureau and you can change straight to residence. This is a lengthy process however and during that time you get (just like here) your "under consideration" stamp. However the big difference is that "under consideration" in Germany means the same as if permanent residence was already granted, i.e. you can work legally. Only in case it is denied (i.e. if you are a wanted criminal or some such) you will have to leave the country - and by no means you will get deported and banned, for that you need to break the law in Germany first. You'll get three months time to clear up and leave... unlike the gracious seven days they give you here. And you can involve the legal system which threats you, the foreigner, equal to a local - you can fight for your right to remain, this can and does occasionally take years during which you are still legal in the country (and can still work, earn money and use the social system of free health care etc). Try that in Thailand - you'll be in the slammer in a heartbeat.

If the system was fair Thailand would grant foreigners the exact same rights that Thai people are granted in those foreigners' respective countries. THEN i wouldn't mind a somewhat difficult procedure to get a visa. But having immigration rules as tough as Europe but the benefits of the African jungle...... something doesn't match here.

Best regards.....

Thanh

It is not that easy in most Western countries. In the USA if you come on a tourist visa you have 6 months, if you decide to get married or go to school you must leave the country and get the appropriate visa, generally speaking it means returning to your own country. If you do get married and do not have the proper visa you will be deported and not eligible to petition for a visa for 10 years the same rule applies for studying without a student visa.

Thailand offers a 90 double entry tourist visa that is 6 months in total quite enough time for a tourist it is also what the USA offers its tourists.

Thailand offers a one year non-immigrant B business visa if you are doing a legitimate business.

If you are married to a Thai you can get a non-immigrant O visa for a year

You can get visas for business, employment, retirement, marriage, conferences, missionary work, volunteer work, research, mass media, medical treatment the list goes on and on.

Like I said if you can't get a visa you are breaking the law plain and simple or you do not have the resources required to stay here. I also suggested contacting the sponsor of this web site Thai Visa, that is what they do and I would bet good money they can get you a visa but chances are the people complaining are the people breaking the law and don't have the required resources (primarily money) because they are working under the table or have a criminal record.

[Jingthing]

(Imagine 40million "retired" foreign pensioners living in thailand, would that improve the living standards for the country? I doubt it.)

40 million is absurd!

How about one million? That may mean 10 million Thai jobs. New money brought in recirculated many times, study economics. Each new expat starts a new household, that is a huge economic injection. In a country the size of Thailand, 10 million jobs is massive.

This most recent one is so minor and will affect so few people compared to the overall number of people that live or travel here I don't consider it much of a change at all. Just a minor adustment to the last rule change.

I fully concur.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jungian]

A poor country needs all the jobs it can get, expats, tourists, foreign investment all create jobs. Why discourage ANY of those?

The Government don't care about the little people of thailand and their lives....only care about 'face'.......their own perceived face from having a country seen as the sex capital of asia... or other things irrelevant to the ordinary thai people who only want to make a living...

The United States and the UK have a higher rate of poverty then Thailand and make more money on sex than Thailand. Thailand has a higher population of educated people than the USA or the UK, I fail to see your point at all. Thailand is also hardly the sex capitol of Asia I guess this just means you haven't been around Asia. What Thailand does have is the top universities in South East Asia (9 universities in the top 100 for all of Asia) and a large number of universities in the top 4000 (I didn't count them all) Chiang Mai University comes in at number 633 in the world and it is number 3 in Thailand I didn't have time to go thought the entire list but the point is you have no point. I have found people with a bitter attitude toward Thailand are here because they have a problem in their own country which is why they didn't bother to work and save the required amount of money needed to be here legally or to make a better life here. The average high school graduate where I am from can save enough money to buy a middle class home in Thailand in a year or two in cash providing they are not planing to stay in the USA meaning financing anything.

Bottom line if you can't get legal you are illegal and if you are illegal there is a good reason you can't get legal which makes you part of the problem and not the solution which is why these laws change all of the time. The next law I foresee is they will limit how many border runs you can do and then you have to leave.

Anywhere you go in the world you have to earn what you have why people think Thailand should just hand it out is beyond me.

[JR Texas]

A poor country needs all the jobs it can get, expats, tourists, foreign investment all create jobs. Why discourage ANY of those?

The Government don't care about the little people of thailand and their lives....only care about 'face'.......their own perceived face from having a country seen as the sex capital of asia... or other things irrelevant to the ordinary thai people who only want to make a living...

The United States and the UK have a higher rate of poverty then Thailand and make more money on sex than Thailand. Thailand has a higher population of educated people than the USA or the UK, I fail to see your point at all. Thailand is also hardly the sex capitol of Asia I guess this just means you haven't been around Asia. What Thailand does have is the top universities in South East Asia (9 universities in the top 100 for all of Asia) and a large number of universities in the top 4000 (I didn't count them all) Chiang Mai University comes in at number 633 in the world and it is number 3 in Thailand I didn't have time to go thought the entire list but the point is you have no point. I have found people with a bitter attitude toward Thailand are here because they have a problem in their own country which is why they didn't bother to work and save the required amount of money needed to be here legally or to make a better life here. The average high school graduate where I am from can save enough money to buy a middle class home in Thailand in a year or two in cash providing they are not planing to stay in the USA meaning financing anything.

Bottom line if you can't get legal you are illegal and if you are illegal there is a good reason you can't get legal which makes you part of the problem and not the solution which is why these laws change all of the time. The next law I foresee is they will limit how many border runs you can do and then you have to leave.

Anywhere you go in the world you have to earn what you have why people think Thailand should just hand it out is beyond me.

You are so way off the mark........poverty is much greater in Thailand all things being equal (a major problem is that the poverty figures in the UK and USA are at least close to the mark.........way off in Thailand)........where do you get your figures on university rankings? Taiwan, Japan, Malaysia all have some excellent universities that are ranked very high........in Thailand you have two (Chulalongkorn and Thammasat) and as far as I am aware they are not ranked high. As far as academics is concerned--with the exception of some of your medical schools--Thailand does not have a good reputation at all.

You are way off in your analysis of "border runner."

[dbrenn]

Some people seem to think it is easy to get a visa in Thailand. No, it is not easy. Thailand's system of visa rules is the worst I have ever had to deal with (how people keep up with it on ThaiVisa is a mystery, but I applaud them for doing so).

There is no consistency in it. It is a logistical nightmare. You never know where to go to get the type of visa you want.......the rules keep changing........the rules in various locations keep changing.

Thailand forces people to leave the country to get all types of visas.......that is total nonsense.

Once you have passed immigration you should be able to walk into any immigration office and get the visa you need (pay the money, pass the security check, get the visa......easy).

Thailand needs more options for people who elect to stay in Thailand for months and months on a tourist visa. In the Philippines tourists visas "morph" into long term solutions and the government has no problem with it.

In my view, most of the visa changes have nothing to do with security and everything to do with a rising tide of xenophobia. They are also linked to a strange and false concept: Lower to middle class people are bad; rich people are good.

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

In terms of visa diffuclty, the UK is much worse. Having migrated there, paid a shed load of money to do so, and handed over stacks of documentation, I can definetly say it isn't immigrant friendly. Rules and qualifications are changed, sometimes so badly, that a group of migrants appealed to the high court on the basis that they were now made ineligible of extending their initial visa having already been allowed to enter the UK, moving their lives and families there.

So bad in fact, that my mate has waited a year for his change of visa status to be issued, and they have kept his passport for the entire time.

Thailand is a model of consistency in comparison.

Aussie isn't easy either. Cost me an arm and a leg to get a PR visa there, had to show reams of documents to verify my qualifications and experience to get the required points. Also had to have a medical and criminal record check and wait over a year.

I really can't understand this sense of 'entitlement' either when it comes to living in Thailand. Some people think that they have a God given right to stay in Thailand forever just because they have a few more bucks than the average Somchai. The same people seem to be the ones who treat Thailand and its laws with such derision, simply because they are tourists or temporary residents and treated as such. It's no wonder they aren't made welcome to stay indefinitely.

I do pity the married folk, but the harsh reality is that if Thailand were to open the doors to married men, there would be a large number of marriages of convenience - guys marrying bar girls to get immigration status. "I marry you long time, you give me 10,000 Baht, you same same me, you stay Thailand no visa" would replace the "I love you long time" war cry down at Patpong. This is why Thailand doesn't extend rights to married men, unless they are working and meet other criteria. But many other countries in the region are the same - someone I know is married to a Malaysian, but has no rights in Malaysia. Marriage to a Fillipina allows you no access to citizenship, Singapore likewise, etc, etc,

Contribute sommething, and you can stay. People who work in Thailand do have access to PR and citizebship, so thay can secure their future.

Try visa running to the western world ...

[Jungian]

University statistics: http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp

World poverty is facts Based on 2008 UN Human Development Report UK 14% live in poverty USA 12% live in poverty and Thailand 10% live in poverty take it for what it is worth.

Thailand is no longer really a developing nation they were offered "first world" status or developed nation status about 5 years ago. The King said he would prefer to put this status off for another 20 years. Why? Because once you achieve "developed nation" status your country loses a lot of benefits such as low interest loans and assistance from the the world bank and the UN, you are kind of on your own.

Thailand also has the lowest unemployment in the world according to Germany's Federal Statistics Office coming in at only 1.9% unemployed.

As far as health care the USA rates as number 37 in the world and Thailand rates as number 47:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Business and economics in Thailand: http://www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreEconomies/?economyid=186

I think what people think are "facts" about Thailand come from bar gossip, rumor and general bitterness.

But, this is way off topic, I'm just pointing out some facts (not opinions). For some reason a lot of foreigners think they are "god's gift" To Thailand and the country can't do with out them.

My points were:

1) Thailand values education, if you have one it is easy to stay and you are employable and eligible for a visa and work permit.

2) If you are here on a visa exemption or a tourist visa and you are doing anything other than being a tourist you are breaking the law and you are an illegal alien, if you are still in denial about that go to immigration and tell them what you are doing and see if they deport you.

3) If you are running a business and do not have a business visa you are breaking the law. If you are worried so much about the poor people stop taking business opportunity away from them.

4) If you are teaching (anything) and do not have a visa and a work permit you are illegal, technically you are supposed to have an minimum of a bachelors degree to teach anything in Thailand but I understand there are exceptions for English teachers and language teachers in general but ONLY language teachers.

5) If you are married to a Thai National and doing border runs something is very wrong.

6) If you are 50 years old or older and you are doing border runs... Why?

The list goes on and on but I have faith that when those who are trying to find loop holes take a good hard look at their situation they will see the truth.

I have a question though if so many people think Thailand sucks so bad, why are you still here?

[dbrenn]

Those of you with you high paid jobs and work permits. Have you ever considered what will happen once there are enough Thais trained to do your job? It's quite possible that you will be thrown out and not given a second thought. It wouldn't matter if you have a Thai family, because you have no security and no rights.

That's only true if you stay on yearly renewals of extension of stay. Temporary residents the world over are subject to rule changes, and anyone on a Non-Imm visa in Thailand is always at risk of not having their visas renewed.

However, if you are working in Thailand with a work permit, you can get PR, then become a citizen.

PRs and citizens are not subject to rule changes that affect temporary residents, and can stay in Thailand as long as they want.

[Jungian]

Aussie isn't easy either. Cost me an arm and a leg to get a PR visa there, had to show reams of documents to verify my qualifications and experience to get the required points. Also had to have a medical and criminal record check and wait over a year.

I really can't understand this sense of 'entitlement' either when it comes to living in Thailand. Some people think that they have a God given right to stay in Thailand forever just because they have a few more bucks than the average Somchai. The same people seem to be the ones who treat Thailand and its laws with such derision, simply because they are tourists or temporary residents and treated as such. It's no wonder they aren't made welcome to stay indefinitely.

I do pity the married folk, but the harsh reality is that if Thailand were to open the doors to married men, there would be a large number of marriages of convenience - guys marrying bar girls to get immigration status. "I marry you long time, you give me 10,000 Baht, you same same me, you stay Thailand no visa" would replace the "I love you long time" war cry down at Patpong. This is why Thailand doesn't extend rights to married men, unless they are working and meet other criteria. But many other countries in the region are the same - someone I know is married to a Malaysian, but has no rights in Malaysia. Marriage to a Fillipina allows you no access to citizenship, Singapore likewise, etc, etc,

Contribute sommething, and you can stay. People who work in Thailand do have access to PR and citizebship, so thay can secure their future.

Try visa running to the western world ...

Yes, 100% true

Until people stop abusing the system we who are married to Thai Nationals, have families, jobs, houses, cars, bank accounts, investments, etc. we are looked at the same as the border runner that hangs out with bar girls and drinks 7 days a week.

[venturalaw]

Some people seem to think it is easy to get a visa in Thailand. No, it is not easy. Thailand's system of visa rules is the worst I have ever had to deal with (how people keep up with it on ThaiVisa is a mystery, but I applaud them for doing so).

There is no consistency in it. It is a logistical nightmare. You never know where to go to get the type of visa you want.......the rules keep changing........the rules in various locations keep changing.

Thailand forces people to leave the country to get all types of visas.......that is total nonsense.

Once you have passed immigration you should be able to walk into any immigration office and get the visa you need (pay the money, pass the security check, get the visa......easy).

Thailand needs more options for people who elect to stay in Thailand for months and months on a tourist visa. In the Philippines tourists visas "morph" into long term solutions and the government has no problem with it.

In my view, most of the visa changes have nothing to do with security and everything to do with a rising tide of xenophobia. They are also linked to a strange and false concept: Lower to middle class people are bad; rich people are good.

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

In terms of visa diffuclty, the UK is much worse. Having migrated there, paid a shed load of money to do so, and handed over stacks of documentation, I can definetly say it isn't immigrant friendly. Rules and qualifications are changed, sometimes so badly, that a group of migrants appealed to the high court on the basis that they were now made ineligible of extending their initial visa having already been allowed to enter the UK, moving their lives and families there.

So bad in fact, that my mate has waited a year for his change of visa status to be issued, and they have kept his passport for the entire time.

Thailand is a model of consistency in comparison.

I really can't understand this sense of 'entitlement' either when it comes to living in Thailand. Some people think that they have a God given right to stay in Thailand forever just because they have a few more bucks than the average Somchai. The same people seem to be the ones who treat Thailand and its laws with such derision, simply because they are tourists or temporary residents and treated as such. It's no wonder they aren't made welcome to stay indefinitely.

I do pity the married folk, but the harsh reality is that if Thailand were to open the doors to married men, there would be a large number of marriages of convenience - guys marrying bar girls to get immigration status. "I marry you long time, you give me 10,000 Baht, you same same me, you stay Thailand no visa" would replace the "I love you long time" war cry down at Patpong. This is why Thailand doesn't extend rights to married men, unless they are working and meet other criteria. But many other countries in the region are the same - someone I know is married to a Malaysian, but has no rights in Malaysia. Marriage to a Fillipina allows you no access to citizenship, Singapore likewise, etc, etc,

Contribute sommething, and you can stay. People who work in Thailand do have access to PR and citizebship, so thay can secure their future.

Try visa running to the western world ...

I agree - the only ones who are entitled to stay permanently are those who have become citizens of this country, which is as it should be. It is extremely difficult to become a citizen, which is up to the country's law makers. If one doesn't like it, one can leave. I said I intend to stay permanently, not that I have a inalienable right to stay.

My point in my previous posts has nothing to do with these issues. It's the fact that if there is an increase in restrictions regarding tourism, there will be fewer tourists as a result. Fewer tourists equals less income to the country. I wish for Thailand to prosper. One way is for an influx, not a reduction, in income. Those who are illegal are a small percentage of the tourist population. There are laws in place to take care of those who are violators.

Edited June 4, 2009 by venturalaw

[dbrenn]

University statistics: http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp

World poverty is facts Based on 2008 UN Human Development Report UK 14% live in poverty USA 12% live in poverty and Thailand 10% live in poverty take it for what it is worth.

Thailand is no longer really a developing nation they were offered "first world" status or developed nation status about 5 years ago. The King said he would prefer to put this status off for another 20 years. Why? Because once you achieve "developed nation" status your country loses a lot of benefits such as low interest loans and assistance from the the world bank and the UN, you are kind of on your own.

Thailand also has the lowest unemployment in the world according to Germany's Federal Statistics Office coming in at only 1.9% unemployed.

As far as health care the USA rates as number 37 in the world and Thailand rates as number 47:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Business and economics in Thailand: http://www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreEconomies/?economyid=186

I think what people think are "facts" about Thailand come from bar gossip, rumor and general bitterness.

But, this is way off topic, I'm just pointing out some facts (not opinions). For some reason a lot of foreigners think they are "god's gift" To Thailand and the country can't do with out them.

My points were:

1) Thailand values education, if you have one it is easy to stay and you are employable and eligible for a visa and work permit.

2) If you are here on a visa exemption or a tourist visa and you are doing anything other than being a tourist you are breaking the law and you are an illegal alien, if you are still in denial about that go to immigration and tell them what you are doing and see if they deport you.

3) If you are running a business and do not have a business visa you are breaking the law. If you are worried so much about the poor people stop taking business opportunity away from them.

4) If you are teaching (anything) and do not have a visa and a work permit you are illegal, technically you are supposed to have an minimum of a bachelors degree to teach anything in Thailand but I understand there are exceptions for English teachers and language teachers in general but ONLY language teachers.

5) If you are married to a Thai National and doing border runs something is very wrong.

6) If you are 50 years old or older and you are doing border runs... Why?

The list goes on and on but I have faith that when those who are trying to find loop holes take a good hard look at their situation they will see the truth.

I have a question though if so many people think Thailand sucks so bad, why are you still here?

Too true - so many of the 'resident tourists' actually begin to believe that they have somehow graduated to legal status simply because they have been allowed to get away with border runs for years on end.

Thailand could stamp out border running overnight, but instead puts a gradual squeeze on the practice, giving people who want to stay and can contribute something a chance to regularise themselves.

All these people who think that Thailand's economy depends on border runners don't really understand that Thailand doesn't agree with them. Border runners are a tiny fraction of tourism and make aa mockery of Thailand's immigration laws.

[devaram]

Nobody does back to back border runs anymore that would be torture for only 15 days.

Only an insane person would do that.

Most visa runners go to Malaysia or Laos to get three or six months

Its a welcome vacation and is 100% legal

[JR Texas]

Nobody does back to back border runs anymore that would be torture for only 15 days.

Only an insane person would do that.

Most visa runners go to Malaysia or Laos to get three or six months

Its a welcome vacation and is 100% legal

Jungian: You are presenting misleading information about poverty and education, among other things. I think most of the readers know it.

After reading the comments by all the people who apparently think the visa rules changes over the past 9 years have been wonderful for Thailand, I can only say that I look forward to the day when the visa bar finally hits your chin. That day is coming. It will be interesting to see if your viewpoint changes after that happens.

[samran]

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

You do talk a lot of rubbish!

Perpetual tourists bring foreign currency into Thailand. It's a form of invisible exports.

Who spends more money in Thailand, the once a year 2 week tourist or the perpetual tourist who spends money here 365 days a year.

Perpetual tourist by spending money all year round help to keep a lot of Thais in employment the whole year round, not just 2 or 3 months a year.

Please tell me what migrants contribute to the Uk economy. Most do not add productivity, they are a drain.

Britain is already overcrowded.

................................................................................

............................................................

Why you people keep coming out with this Krap about how good it is in Thailand compared to getting a Visa for the Uk. Are you really so dense? You really can't understand that people from 3rd world countries want to go to the UK because they want to work or leech off of the state. You just can't compare visa regulations in Thailand with the Uk. Yes, it's not easy for a Thai to get a Visa to the Uk, but I would guess that it's a lot easier for a rich Thai to get a Visa than a poor one. A Thai can marry a Brit and become a Uk citizen with all the benefits. No chance the other way round!

You lot just keep on bleating "If you stick to the rules and get a visa, then no problem"

I think that most people who have posted in this thread (me included) are not actually concerned about this particular rule change. What they are concerned about is the way they keep changing the rules. You smug ba****rds can keep repeating "get a visa, get a blah, blah, blah. You just don't get it do you? People like you and I are living here legally, but the next rule change could affect us directly. What's to stop them demanding that you need 10 or 20 mill Baht in the bank before they'll issue extensions or work permits. What's to stop them making it impossible for YOU to stay here? Nothing.

I live here with and take care of my Thai family, but I have no rights and no real security.

Those of you with you high paid jobs and work permits. Have you ever considered what will happen once there are enough Thais trained to do your job? It's quite possible that you will be thrown out and not given a second thought. It wouldn't matter if you have a Thai family, because you have no security and no rights.

If you bothered to read my previous threads you'll see that I've said that visa rules for those with families should be eased, and that it is a funamental human right for a person to be able to live with their family, have work rights and have a clear and predicable path to citizenship. Not withstanding the very real potential for this rule to be exploted by people marrying the first bar girl they meet to get residency rights.

I also have my family here, so I understand the dilema you face. I trudge down to immigration every year to extend my wifes visa, and put up with incremental changes in the system. But as I said, having done the same in the UK, I guarantee that Thailand is miles ahead on that front.

You also basically contradict yourself. You rail against migrants to the UK, who as someone else pointed out, do get some benefits, but who also work in jobs locals don't want to do, and pay taxes. But then you reckon perpetual tourists (ie not married, without families) are some how gods gift to Thailand.

And you reckon perpetual toursists aren't skivving of the state in Thailand as well. You must be joking. Or does national infrastructure appear magically?

I ask, how? The don't work, pay no taxes, create no value via working and use national infrastructure that is paid for and subsidised by the government. I mean, do you reckon hosiptals here are cheap just cause they accept lower wages? Who trained those doctors? the state. Who pays their salary? The state. Who built the road you drove on to get to the hospital? The state. Who built and subsidises the airport which you landed when you arrived into Thailand? The state. Who subsidises the electricity that you use? The state. Who subsidises the water that comes out of your tap? The State...

Who pays the state? My tax dollars...

Perpetual tourists train no one, pass on no knowledge, and don't creat one satang of value for Thailand.

And you reckon shelling out a few bucks to the local 7-11 and tesco lotus somehow makes these perpetual toursits even?

Edited June 4, 2009 by samran

[mojaco]

It is not that easy in most Western countries. In the USA if you come on a tourist visa you have 6 months, if you decide to get married or go to school you must leave the country and get the appropriate visa, generally speaking it means returning to your own country. If you do get married and do not have the proper visa you will be deported and not eligible to petition for a visa for 10 years the same rule applies for studying without a student visa.

<snip>

Sometimes it is just immaturity or lack of understanding that creates these kinds of problems? When my foreign (girl) friend came to the USA 35 years ago as a tourist to actually only visit some friends, I convinced her to marry (and am still happily married to her.) I never gave any thought to whether we could actually stay together or not (immaturity, ignorance) but gratefully a helpful and considerate USA immigration officer gave her a temporary visa and told her to not go back to her own country or it might take a long time to bring her back under as a person married to a USA citizen (maybe never.) Then that officer managed to get a permanent resident status processed for her in only 6 months while she remained in the USA. So perhaps some of the foreigner-Thai marriages happen the same way, but with less happy endings? It is so sad to see marriages and/or families caught in this situation.

[ovenman]

pay no taxes

Nonsense. You seem to be drawing the conclusion that the only tax that gets paid to the gov't is the income tax and I know that you know better than that.

Edited June 4, 2009 by ovenman