How Long Before We All Get Kicked Out?

[ubonjoe]

This topic requires an orchestra

[bungy007]

This topic requires an orchestra

Love it It's exactly my reaction when I hear of all the lay-offs as the economic meltdown hits Thailand and the Thais. It will be even more funnier when they realise that a lot of westerners are getting wise to their policies and stop buying condos and houses, choose to stay home for hols or seek less expensive alternatives like Cambodia, Vietnam et al . Then when the next IMF era hits them and the international community also has the same reaction - I'll be on the floor doing the dying fly.

[Oberkommando]

The answer to the OP's question.

Soon.

I have noticed increasing hostility towards me from Thais when I am in Thailand. Even a waiter at a restaurant couldn't hide his contempt for me yesterday when I ordered the check. The look he gave me was appalling and I would have complained at any establishment in the West. Pointless here as we are all well aware.

Oh well, time to move on. Thailand was good to me for 20 odd years but has been going downhill rapidly recently.

[Datsun240Z]

Is it because foreigner getting smarter = less profit for thais ?

[Misplaced]

This topic requires an orchestra

Love it It's exactly my reaction when I hear of all the lay-offs as the economic meltdown hits Thailand and the Thais. It will be even more funnier when they realise that a lot of westerners are getting wise to their policies and stop buying condos and houses, choose to stay home for hols or seek less expensive alternatives like Cambodia, Vietnam et al . Then when the next IMF era hits them and the international community also has the same reaction - I'll be on the floor doing the dying fly.

You hate it so bad than move! Nobody is asking for you to stay. Cambodia & Vietnam is less expensive than why are you still here? And if you're not in Thailand and you hate this place so much than why are you on this site talking about it? Seems to me if you hate something you'd want not to be bothered with it.

[LAZYTERRY]

The answer to the OP's question.

Soon.

I have noticed increasing hostility towards me from Thais when I am in Thailand. Even a waiter at a restaurant couldn't hide his contempt for me yesterday when I ordered the check. The look he gave me was appalling and I would have complained at any establishment in the West. Pointless here as we are all well aware.

Oh well, time to move on. Thailand was good to me for 20 odd years but has been going downhill rapidly recently.

Well said.

[bravingbangkok]

Farang money into a Thai pocket

BUT

Thai money into a Farang pocket

However it has by no means come anywhere near this stage, I truly think you guys are over reacting and I really do not see us being told to catch a cab.

[Birdman]

Only a huge catastrophe like a bloody civil war, a bad epidemic or a massive international war will change the picture and masses will move away.

But this is rather unlikely to happen. So some, who can't stand the policies or the behaviour will ether go back home, where after a while a huge percentage will regret that, others will move to neighbouring countries, where after a while the current welcoming policies and behaviour will wane too, but most will stay here.

Actually I think we all have seen nothing yet. In the not too distant future many, many more Westerners, masses, want to stay in Thailand. Most of them 50+.

They were born during the boom years. Enjoyed a freethinking youth, good jobs, good health and they will realize, that it's more fun to stay in tropical Thailand than lonely in their cold towns in Europe...And they will come with their life savings plus nice pensions for which they work now.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Birdman

[basjke]

It seems that the rose tinted glasses have been sold out here for some time now.

[Jungian]

I think the next step is they are going to ask to see the 20,000฿ in cash that they require and reserve the right to ask for before allowing admittance. I think Laos and Myanmar need to put some Western Unions on the border huh.

[Maizefarmer]

I have never read so much rubbish written about Thai people and their attitudes towards ex-pats.

Yes, there are certainly examples of bad attitude/bad treament from Thai's which can be cited by ex-pats, and yes, it can certainly be a "caveat emptor" experiance, but standing back from many of those incidents it's often a case of fault on both sides i.e. the ignorance is equal.

Its my experiance that ex-pats with generalised critical perceptions about Thailand and it's people, are usualy those who come here with preconcieved ideas about Caucasian "superiority" - that somehow Western monetary wealth, development, education ect etc ... equates to them been better people, or Thailand been a backward country. What rubbish - yes, the sooner you're thrown out the better.

We're quite happy to consume in the West on material goods made in the Far East (from fridges, to shoes, to sporting goods, to car parts, to TV's and on and on and on ........), run Western brand-names and pay prices that keep many of those in Thailand and other Far Eastern countries, where they are in terms of oppurtunity and lifestyle. We're quite happy to come here and behave in places like Pattaya and Patong beach in a manner we wouldn't back home.

... and then think we have grounds to question how they treat us, and their attitude towards us. Well, if thats what one wants to belive (and its an attitude that expresses little but ones own ignorance), one may care to give some thought to the comments in the paragraph above.

Take a look at your own attitudes and perceptions about & towards Thai's - before you critisize them about how you think they perceive you.

Rights & wrongs aside, on both sides - if one doesn't like it here, why the hel_l are you here(?): as another forum member has said, pack up and move on - Vietnam and Cambodia are both cheaper - but remember one thing: you take yourself and your attitudes with you!

[Robby nz]

At present I am in the process of applying for a tourist visa to Thailand and will be going to Lao on Monday.

We are also getting the papers together for the Mrs to apply for a tourist visa to NZ.

What a difference! one sheet of paper to fill in for the TL visa and 1000b for 60 days with 30days for a farther 1900b, no proof of funds required and no onward ticket and ready to pick up the next day.

Compare that to the NZ process for a 3 month tourist visa, a stack of paper 2cm thick, both sides with family, where you have worked in the past, proof of funds, NZ$1000 per month, where you will stay, proof of relationship, where you have lived in the past, photos together, all supporting papers translated into english and then certified, return tickets and more, and the cost; visa alone 3800b plus all the copying, translation and certification looks like it will be about 6000b or more. And how long will it take? dont know, will let you know in 5 days.

Now tell me again how difficult it is to get into TL and who dosent want who where.

[basjke]

At present I am in the process of applying for a tourist visa to Thailand and will be going to Lao on Monday.

We are also getting the papers together for the Mrs to apply for a tourist visa to NZ.

What a difference! one sheet of paper to fill in for the TL visa and 1000b for 60 days with 30days for a farther 1900b, no proof of funds required and no onward ticket and ready to pick up the next day.

Compare that to the NZ process for a 3 month tourist visa, a stack of paper 2cm thick, both sides with family, where you have worked in the past, proof of funds, NZ$1000 per month, where you will stay, proof of relationship, where you have lived in the past, photos together, all supporting papers translated into english and then certified, return tickets and more, and the cost; visa alone 3800b plus all the copying, translation and certification looks like it will be about 6000b or more. And how long will it take? dont know, will let you know in 5 days.

Now tell me again how difficult it is to get into TL and who dosent want who where.

Don't you think the reason for that is because NZ has a social security system which probably allows,same as in europe,for every immigrant with no money to profit from it.

Would you like if every immigrant comes into your country and supper up your tax money?

From the contrary Thailand has no social security system where every foreigner can profit from and most,I don't say all,foreigners who come here can have the financial resources to take care themselves.

[MJo]

From the contrary Thailand has no social security system where every foreigner can profit from and most,I don't say all,foreigners who come here can have the financial resources to take care themselves.

Wrong. Thailand indeed has a sosical security system. And it is open for foreigners as well. I know coz i used to hold the SS card and used to pay my contribution every month starting back in 2001.

My wife pays every month as well for several years. Just last week got over 30k compensation to cover the costs for birth of our child. Combination of one of payment and monthly allowance during maternity leave. Also will receive monthly child support allowance for couple of years. Nowdays she will also get some pension out of it if and when she will reach 60 years old. Maybe the amounts are not comparable to NZ or Europe but same goes with salaries, SS contribution amounts and cost of living.

Edit: and i mean that not many foreign tourists can benefit from social security here in Thailand and definedly not in europe and i believe tourists can not claim in NZ either ?

Edited June 6, 2009 by MJo

[kaorop]

Someone suggested going to the Phillipines to live. Great advice, a lawless country with a failed economy and nothing happening to fix the problems, and military coups every few years to try to overthrow a very very corrrupt, innefective and incapable government. +

same same thailand.

i say the vast majority of thais do not know the restrictions placed on westerners.

i doubt it would rate 10th page news if there were a big change.

not on most peoples radar

[CaptHaddock]

They do not want us here.........that is what the visa system is telling us. If you can't see it, you are blind.

The trouble with some of you expats in Thailand is that you overestimate your importance. I doubt whether the Thais and the Thai govt think much about you from day to day. Why should they?

[basjke]

From the contrary Thailand has no social security system where every foreigner can profit from and most,I don't say all,foreigners who come here can have the financial resources to take care themselves.

Wrong. Thailand indeed has a sosical security system. And it is open for foreigners as well. I know coz i used to hold the SS card and used to pay my contribution every month starting back in 2001.

My wife pays every month as well for several years. Just last week got over 30k compensation to cover the costs for birth of our child. Combination of one of payment and monthly allowance during maternity leave. Also will receive monthly child support allowance for couple of years. Nowdays she will also get some pension out of it if and when she will reach 60 years old. Maybe the amounts are not comparable to NZ or Europe but same goes with salaries, SS contribution amounts and cost of living.

Edit: and i mean that not many foreign tourists can benefit from social security here in Thailand and definedly not in europe and i believe tourists can not claim in NZ either ?

Indeed they started a minimal social security system some years ago.But that is for people who work here and even then the compensations are very small.Like you mentioned a pension maybe some medical costs covered but that is it.

I don't know about NZ but in my home country every foreigner,included the illegal ones,are entitled to a monthly income which is about 8 times the average salary in thailand.For every child on their register they will recieve a monthly sum,which is also no small money,regardless if the child stays in the country or abroad and if they know their way they will also get free housing.

Ever heard about something close to this in thailand?

[MJo]

Indeed they started a minimal social security system some years ago.But that is for people who work here and even then the compensations are very small.Like you mentioned a pension maybe some medical costs covered but that is it.

I don't know about NZ but in my home country every foreigner,included the illegal ones,are entitled to a monthly income which is about 8 times the average salary in thailand.For every child on their register they will recieve a monthly sum,which is also no small money,regardless if the child stays in the country or abroad and if they know their way they will also get free housing.

Ever heard about something close to this in thailand?

Are you swedish perhaps

Anyways country where i come from, fairly close to sweden, you do need to get legal status and at least a temporary recidence permit before you can use the SS system. For most this means working or married to a national. Unless you are a asulym seeker (sorry about the spelling), then you are treated as one and given some benefits as long as your application is rejected or approved. Illegal immgrants do not have any rights whatsoever but in my country there is basicly none. Maybe few odd cases that manage to hide from authorities after deportation order.

Agree that Thailand should improve the rights of foreigners married to Thai nationals. Present system is just not fair for men.

[basjke]

Indeed they started a minimal social security system some years ago.But that is for people who work here and even then the compensations are very small.Like you mentioned a pension maybe some medical costs covered but that is it.

I don't know about NZ but in my home country every foreigner,included the illegal ones,are entitled to a monthly income which is about 8 times the average salary in thailand.For every child on their register they will recieve a monthly sum,which is also no small money,regardless if the child stays in the country or abroad and if they know their way they will also get free housing.

Ever heard about something close to this in thailand?

Are you swedish perhaps

Anyways country where i come from, fairly close to sweden, you do need to get legal status and at least a temporary recidence permit before you can use the SS system. For most this means working or married to a national. Unless you are a asulym seeker (sorry about the spelling), then you are treated as one and given some benefits as long as your application is rejected or approved. Illegal immgrants do not have any rights whatsoever but in my country there is basicly none. Maybe few odd cases that manage to hide from authorities after deportation order.

Agree that Thailand should improve the rights of foreigners married to Thai nationals. Present system is just not fair for men.

No I'm Belgian and the estimates in 2008 were 150.000 illegals.Most of them get in with a legal visa and never return to their home country.Many others get married to a belgian citizen just for the period they need to get SS.Or for example others come here pregnant and make sure that the child is born in Belgium so they are the mother of a Belgian citizen.So many ways to get assigned to the SS system in european country's.

And even whenever they catch you they will pay for your flight home.

[MJo]

No I'm Belgian and the estimates in 2008 were 150.000 illegals.Most of them get in with a legal visa and never return to their home country.Many others get married to a belgian citizen just for the period they need to get SS.Or for example others come here pregnant and make sure that the child is born in Belgium so they are the mother of a Belgian citizen.So many ways to get assigned to the SS system in european country's.

And even whenever they catch you they will pay for your flight home.

Jeez, sounds like you need to start enforcing the thai system to keep them out.

Luckily my country is still not considered to be that attractive in the eyes of these leeches.

[basjke]

No I'm Belgian and the estimates in 2008 were 150.000 illegals.Most of them get in with a legal visa and never return to their home country.Many others get married to a belgian citizen just for the period they need to get SS.Or for example others come here pregnant and make sure that the child is born in Belgium so they are the mother of a Belgian citizen.So many ways to get assigned to the SS system in european country's.

And even whenever they catch you they will pay for your flight home.

Jeez, sounds like you need to start enforcing the thai system to keep them out.

Luckily my country is still not considered to be that attractive in the eyes of these leeches.

I assume your country isn't part of shengen yet,if so wait untill that happens and we will all share them with you.

[Oberkommando]

as another forum member has said, pack up and move on - Vietnam and Cambodia are both cheaper - but remember one thing: you take yourself and your attitudes with you!

We are moving on, and so are the tourists by the looks of it.

Chaiyo!

[jai]

farang peeple are lucky, they have choose over where they go to live, when not happy in thailand, why stay in thailand ????

i want to go stay in european country but its difficult, im thai people but not easy for visa so difficult, why farang complain about thailand, they can come here easy and leave easy too, thai peeple cannot have big choice

[Oberkommando]

farang peeple are lucky, they have choose over where they go to live, when not happy in thailand, why stay in thailand ????

i want to go stay in european country but its difficult, im thai people but not easy for visa so difficult, why farang complain about thailand, they can come here easy and leave easy too, thai peeple cannot have big choice

That's because citizens of poorer countries, in the main, become a burden on our societies while we, in the main, contribute to yours.

Precisely why Thai Immigration cannot be too picky or choosy about who they let in, but European countries can.

It's a question of need.

However that only applies for tourists, and as a Westerner it is virtually impossible for me to legally emigrate to Thailand and become a Thai citizen, with full rights as a Thai person, however tens of thousands of Thais are granted citizenship and full rights to European countries every year.

[basjke]

farang peeple are lucky, they have choose over where they go to live, when not happy in thailand, why stay in thailand ????

i want to go stay in european country but its difficult, im thai people but not easy for visa so difficult, why farang complain about thailand, they can come here easy and leave easy too, thai peeple cannot have big choice

Nice work loser! why don't just post your own opinions instead of creating a new persona..weirdo.....

Defend Thailand by being you and posting your own experiences not just a made up person.

Yes definitely another troll signed up.His first post was was in quite good english and then he started to speak thai english haha.

What was your previous username Jai?

[MJo]

I assume your country isn't part of shengen yet,if so wait untill that happens and we will all share them with you.

Actually it is, i'm from Finland but as i said Sweden has far more better benefits so if they found themselfs in Finland they very quickly buy a ferry ticket westbound

[IanForbes]

I don't know what everyone is complaining about. If you take it in reverse the Thai people get short changed on the deal. As a Canadian or American tourist all I have to do is have a passport and I can legally enter Thailand for up to 30 days. If I take out a triple entry tourist visa I can stay for 180 days. That is with NO security check and very little funds. Nobody checks anything. However, a Thai with a passport can not legally enter Canada or the USA without a WHOLE LOT OF RED TAPE! Even if a Thai is legally married to a Canadian or US citizen there is STILL a whole lot of red tape required and a LOT of money spent trying to get a simple tourist entry. There is no way possible that I could bring a Thai girl friend back to Canada with me for even a short stay. She would have to have some huge security deposit in Thailand just to go on a simple holiday.

Well, the square headed one had no probs with Europe - bought houses, football clubs - the full biffta! Indeed, Germany is now hopping mad that it issued him with a visa while he is on the run. As for the problem with getting a visa for your girlfriend, I think that may be a case of 'once bitten ...' if you know what I mean. Sadly, some of the ladies who make it over to the west have hidden agendas - again, if you know what I mean...

Certainly SOME ladies who make it over to the west have hidden agendas, but so do many foreign males heading for Thailand. Just about everyone has a hidden agenda about something. So what if the occasional Thai woman slips away while on vacation in Canada? Thailand is FULL of wandering foreigners who stay long past their legal visa date. That is precisely why Thailand has changed its border run laws and tried getting rid of the freeloaders. The United States is FULL of illegal Mexicans who are working hard at minimum wage jobs that free loading Americans on welfare won't do.

[Jingthing]

Thailand is FULL of wandering foreigners who stay long past their legal visa date. That is precisely why Thailand has changed its border run laws and tried getting rid of the freeloaders.

That does not compute.

Expat who is on overstay. He isn't doing border runs. "Cracking down" on border runs doesn't impact such a person one iota. Another attempt at PROJECTION of a person's bias about immigration onto Thai immigration policies, as if anyone here really understands the logic behind their policies, assuming there is any logic ...

Edited June 6, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jungian]

As far as Social Security goes, I pay 750฿ per month from my salary for that I get 100% medical care and medication at no additional cost we even get a dental allowance, my children also get 350฿ each per month deposited into my bank account for milk until they are 12 years old. The birth of my children was reimbursed 50% to me and 50% to my wife (we both pay social security) in cash on the spot when we went to city hall and showed the hospital receipt. When I retire I receive a monthly deposit from Thai Social Security.

If someone is on over stay they are NOT an expat they are an illegal alien subject to the law. I don't see anything illogical about Thailands crack down except they are doing it to slowly. The people working in this country on visa exemptions and tourist visas have lowered the salaries and standards for most people working legally and taken work away from people who are actually qualified. As a teacher if you are working hourly and getting less than 750฿ per hour unless you are salaried you are being punished for those breaking the law. If you are salaried, especially if you work for a government school or university providing you have a masters degree (for full time employment) any teaching done outside your normal work load is to be paid at 750฿ per hour, any classes past your normal working hours is to be paid at 750฿ per hour. So, if you are working for 200฿ per hour or less you ARE the problem not Thailands laws.

[Stalin]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

Sounds like another sour grapes "I failed in Thailand and it's all Thailand's fault" post.

Thailand is very welcoming to people who fit in.