Central May Be About To Collapse

[PattayaParent]

Interesting to see that another structure "pancaked" yesterday. A multi-story garage in the American state of Georgia collapsed onto itself. No one was injured but many parked cars didn't survive. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atl...se_parking.html

Pic here: http://jalopnik.com/5304547/atlanta-parkin...allery/gallery/

But it couldn't happen here.

I mean, Thai standards of construction are SO much better than those American ANSI and ASTM standards, and the Thai workers are much more skilled. Those construction workers in Georgia have probably come straight from the cotton fields and never seen a piece of rebar in their life before.

[tropo]

But it couldn't happen here.

I mean, Thai standards of construction are SO much better than those American ANSI and ASTM standards, and the Thai workers are much more skilled. Those construction workers in Georgia have probably come straight from the cotton fields and never seen a piece of rebar in their life before.

Drama!

Anything is possible but how about you count now many brand new shopping malls have collapsed the world over and lets see which is more likely - a plane crash on your way over here or getting flattened in the collapse of Central while having lunch.

I would suggest that anyone too afraid to enter Central Mall should be living in a padded cell and most definitely should NOT be flying to any 3rd world country.

Edited July 2, 2009 by tropo

[Soutpeel]

I would suggest that anyone too afraid to enter Central Mall should be living in a padded cell and most definitely should NOT be flying to any 3rd world country.

....think there are some TV members who do live in a padded cells, have had sharp objects removed from their persons, are fed anti-psychotic medication and the only contact they have with reality is posting gibberish on TV...

[MeetJohnDoe]

I would suggest that anyone too afraid to enter Central Mall should be living in a padded cell and most definitely should NOT be flying to any 3rd world country.

....think there are some TV members who do live in a padded cells, have had sharp objects removed from their persons, are fed anti-psychotic medication and the only contact they have with reality is posting gibberish on TV...

I think most long-term foreign residents of Pattaya would qualify...I'm currently lining the walls of my house now

[saintofsilence]

Any updates on this building I have been thinking about taking a trip to the cinema next week.

[tropo]

Any updates on this building I have been thinking about taking a trip to the cinema next week.

No signs of collapse as yet.

[ciaociao]

Being a competative type of person that I am and knowing that a few thai visa members have already taken the amazing and dangerous challenge of entering the central shopping complex on beach road I decided it was my turn to step up.

After taking into consideration all the risks associated with the building and that the chances of survival were not good according to many experts today with my hard hat in hand , survival pack and GPS I entered the building.

After being as cautious as possible I made it to swensons ice cream shop where I was rewarded with the special of the day the chocalate tremor.

The adrenillan rush that I had was unbelievable getting as far as this shop.

The last time I felt better than that was when I spent the night with Angelina Jolie

Anyway after finishing my Chocalate Tremor I made my way back through the building knowing that at any minute it may collapse and out the front door.

I am happy to anounce that I survived Central.

Well done!

Now how about taking it to the next step?

A full dinner followed by some shopping or the movies. If you have a car or motorbike, be sure to park it in the basement so you can check out the added column/floor supports.

This should fire up the adrenaline and take your experience to a whole new level.

I have survived several trips to the central mall, movies,ect. When was the last building like the mall or hotel that fell over in bangkok or pattaya????

[Changian]

Maybe some of the wiser TV members can assist the hapless fools who insist on risking their life by entering Central Festival by parading outside with 'The End of Central is Nigh' placards. That would provide a useful public service for all

[Heng]

Royal Garden is just about ready to collapse because of the new Central though. A good majority of the booth merchants have called it quits and have moved to Central. Quite the ghost town. Minor has some decent cash reserves, but nothing compared to Central if they want to play the 'wait and see' game. Time for a serious concept change IMO.

[thaimate]

My familly and i were eating in Fuji this afternoon and there was a loud noise and the tables trembled ,to any of you that were there and thaught the building was collapsing let me apologise now ,ime just getting over an upset stomach and have terrible wind.

Edited August 12, 2009 by thaimate

[ciaociao]

Royal Garden is just about ready to collapse because of the new Central though. A good majority of the booth merchants have called it quits and have moved to Central. Quite the ghost town. Minor has some decent cash reserves, but nothing compared to Central if they want to play the 'wait and see' game. Time for a serious concept change IMO.

Free parking would Help!!!!!

[tropo]

Free parking would Help!!!!!

Realistically, free parking wouldn't help at all because you'd have a very difficult time finding a space to park a car or bike if it was free. Too many people not shopping there would park all day. Especially beach goers, as it is very difficult to find parking in that area of town.

There's already a problem in Central due to free parking for motorcycles. Even on a very quiet shopping day during the week it is hard work to find a space (for a bike). It was good one weekend when they started charging for parking. The carpark was almost empty.

Edited August 12, 2009 by tropo

[Naiplan]

Interesting to see that another structure "pancaked" yesterday. A multi-story garage in the American state of Georgia collapsed onto itself. No one was injured but many parked cars didn't survive. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atl...se_parking.html

Pic here: http://jalopnik.com/5304547/atlanta-parkin...allery/gallery/

But it couldn't happen here.

I mean, Thai standards of construction are SO much better than those American ANSI and ASTM standards, and the Thai workers are much more skilled. Those construction workers in Georgia have probably come straight from the cotton fields and never seen a piece of rebar in their life before.

What about the hotel in Korat a few years back? when they fitted extra water tanks on the roof. Not too many killed if I remember right!

[anothertorres]

Premature age besets Yankee Stadium

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees might look rock solid, but the concrete at their new stadium is drawing extra scrutiny amid a probe of construction companies.

Concrete ramps at the $1.5 billion ballpark have been troubled by cracks this summer.

The New York Times reports that the team is trying to determine whether there was something wrong with the cement, or the ramps' installation or design. The Yankees host the Los Angeles Angels on Saturday night in Game 6 of the American League championship series.

The inquiry comes after the owners of a company involved in designing the concrete mix were indicted on charges that they either faked or failed to perform some required tests.

A team spokeswoman says the cracks are a cosmetic issue and the ramps are safe.

[Soutpeel]

Premature age besets Yankee Stadium

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees might look rock solid, but the concrete at their new stadium is drawing extra scrutiny amid a probe of construction companies.

Concrete ramps at the $1.5 billion ballpark have been troubled by cracks this summer.

The New York Times reports that the team is trying to determine whether there was something wrong with the cement, or the ramps' installation or design. The Yankees host the Los Angeles Angels on Saturday night in Game 6 of the American League championship series.

The inquiry comes after the owners of a company involved in designing the concrete mix were indicted on charges that they either faked or failed to perform some required tests.

A team spokeswoman says the cracks are a cosmetic issue and the ramps are safe.

Same company who did the runways at Swampy perhaps ???

[bodunchar]

buildings move and can be felt as minor "tremors". the suria in the twin towers Kuala lumper has been wobbling for years but hasnt fallen down yet.

Any major structural problems would manifest in forms of cracks appearing regularly. Ok there then...

[PattayaParent]

buildings move and can be felt as minor "tremors". the suria in the twin towers Kuala lumper has been wobbling for years but hasnt fallen down yet.

Any major structural problems would manifest in forms of cracks appearing regularly. Ok there then...

Read the thread from the beggining, they've covered up the cracked parts that were visible, but what about the parts that are not visible? Reckon theyve done any structural inspections?

[jb4446]

Always thought recently how not so well any building is here especially Thailand. Wet concrete when poured should be allowed to cure to let it reach its maximum strength ,here it dries overnight,no strength whatsoever,poor mixing because of increased dusting and lateral cracking in supporting walls allowing reinforcincing rods to be exposed,it will collapse.thats for sure

[NanLaew]

^ Meanwhile in other news, the Pattaya DIY Armchair Achitects & Construction Experts will start holding their regular meetings at the... oh, wait a minute, that venue has probably been poorly constructed too and in imminent danger of collapse with all the experts inside!!!

I guess we will continue beating our gums till they bleed here on TV eh?

[thaimate]

We have a selection of "i survived central mall" "the central mall experience" and visit central before it collapses" t shirts and mugs ,these can be obtained by e mailing me at [email protected] prices are very competative and with each purchase comes a key ring with attached whistle for you to blow should you be trapped.

[ralston3057]

buildings move and can be felt as minor "tremors". the suria in the twin towers Kuala lumper has been wobbling for years but hasnt fallen down yet.

Any major structural problems would manifest in forms of cracks appearing regularly. Ok there then...

You are partly correct

Yes, you will see structural distress in the form of cracks in the structural elements and the finish materials (gypsum, tile....) prior to failure of an flexural element (i.e. beam). A compression element is different. The big thing to check would be for a loading change (i.e addition of a concrete topping, new floor....). Columns fail rather quickly. Since they are compression members, they crush (you don't get a lot of warning with a compression failure the failure is abrupt (of course, it depends on the overload force). Think of it this way. Concrete is fantastic in compression (think 4000 psi concrete (4000 lbs per square inch)). The steel reinforcing primarly provides ductility and tensile strength for lateral loads. The ties around the steel confine the core of the concrete to help prevent exploding outward in a compression failure. They also prevent the steel reinforcing from buckling and help with shear strength from lateral loads. The concrete and the steel both take compressive loads but the concrete takes more b/c there is so much more area of concrete than steel.

When reinforced columns are tested to failure the concrete cover (1.5 inches) around the steel will spall off first. Then, you are left with the core of the concrete which is helped to stay in tact by the steel ties. In a compressive member you should see the spalling of the concrete cover. However, if the force overload is too great and suddenly applied then, things happen pretty quickly and you don't get alot of warning

In any case, you will see distress first (especially in a flexural member). In a column things are a little different (no yielding and compression failures are quick). That is why the phi factor for LRFD is 0.9 for beams and much less for colums.

Lose a column and your building could go down or a large part of it.... It is nice to hear someone say you should see some distress (the structure is talking to you ).

Oh yeah, someone said something earlier. Shear punching is a pretty quick event too and is a result of overloading. The slab literally punches around the column and goes down. Typically, you use column capitals or you thicken the slab in the area of the column. It really is a function of how thick the slab is and the load on the slab. It is a pretty typical failure in flat plate slab construction. Don't know what is going on there b/c I did not see pictures and don't know the framing layout.

Edited December 18, 2009 by ralston3057

[tropo]

Always thought recently how not so well any building is here especially Thailand. Wet concrete when poured should be allowed to cure to let it reach its maximum strength ,here it dries overnight,no strength whatsoever,poor mixing because of increased dusting and lateral cracking in supporting walls allowing reinforcincing rods to be exposed,it will collapse.thats for sure

Of course structural engineers don't know anything about concrete in Thailand...give us a break!

You should check out the History Channel documentary series "Life After People". Everything will eventually collapse, but at least you'll be able to find the safest buildings to reside in giving you the best chance to survive a collapse in your lifetime. Pyramids apparently do quite well.

Edited December 18, 2009 by tropo

[jb4446]

Replying to Central May Be About To Collapse

Now there is an interesting answer,concrete in pyramids? well I never ,thought they were shaped blocks,you certainly live and learn

curing a concrete house slab by ponding Curing concrete is the term used for stopping freshly poured concrete from drying out too quickly. This is done because concrete, if left to dry out of its own accord, will not develop the full bond between all of its ingredients. It will be weaker and tend to crack more. The surface won't be as hard as it could be^[1].

wiki answers, I thill think the whole damned lot will be given the heave ho sooner than later,(but thats my opinion)

[PattayaParent]

^So jb, let's see how you apply your 'ponding' technique to the vertical columns????

[jb4446]

So you want to know about vertical columns too,well there kept wet by the application of water from hosepipes ie never allowed to dry ,anything else?

[trogers]

This is a column in the carpark area. The floor is probably construction as a typical post-tension slab.

The 'shudder' feeling is probably due to having an insufficient floor slab thickness for the column spans, thus excessive deflection under load.

There is no column head in the photo. A column head is an area of thicker concrete (together with appropriate amount of steel rebar) around the column that is design to resist punching shear - a small rigid column punching through the thin slab. Thus, these steel haunches have been added.

As a guide, if there are 3 parking lots between columns, the span is about 8m and typical floor slab is 28cm thick. If 4 lots, the span is almost 11m and floor slab should be 35cm thick. The column head will be 7cm thicker, thus 35cm for the former and 42cm for the latter.

[tropo]

Replying to Central May Be About To Collapse

Now there is an interesting answer,concrete in pyramids? well I never ,thought they were shaped blocks,you certainly live and learn

I wasn't talking about concrete dude. I was talking about you finding a safe building that may not collapse for a few thousand years.

The Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas is made with concrete and will apparently outlast all the the other concrete buildings there. The windows won't last long, but with your building expertise I'm sure you can come up with something to shelter you.

[trogers]

I suspect the use of steel haunch was planned and deliberate, and not a mistake of the designer or contractor.

This building has a department store at the lower floors, and a hotel above it. The building has to observe a certain height limit and still need to waste a structural transfer floor - since a shopping mall needs columns spaced widely apart, while a hotel needs smaller but closely spaced columns.

The shopping floors are probably limited to 4.5-4.6m floor to floor height, and that means the carpark floors next to them have to be 2.25-2.30m floor to floor. Building regulation states that a car park must have a min. 2.0m clearance, and thus, no column heads can be constructed and slab thickness kept at 25cm.

After construction and inspection by local authorities, the steel haunch was added. This will not be required at the shopping area due to a large space above false ceiling to run services.

Edited December 19, 2009 by trogers

[jb4446]

Not just the building in question,look at most other high risers ,spalling exterior panels,cracking etc.It is he housing stock that I see that bothers me.Four to five year old houses look "tired", chipped wall tiles (floor as well)caused probably by wall movement,falling tiles,(could be caused by bonding issue),but so much of it,not just localised,not withstanding loose,falling,failing interior fixtures,all high maintainance stuff.

The finished (new) product looks superb,but its all hot air and mirrors,held together by chewing gum.Another good reason for not buying,ten years on all you will have is a pile of dust around your ankles.

If you think the steel haunch was a planned and deliberate addition before or during construction I'm a Christmas tree.

Edited December 19, 2009 by jb4446

[ralston3057]

Not just the building in question,look at most other high risers ,spalling exterior panels,cracking etc.It is he housing stock that I see that bothers me.Four to five year old houses look "tired", chipped wall tiles (floor as well)caused probably by wall movement,falling tiles,(could be caused by bonding issue),but so much of it,not just localised,not withstanding loose,falling,failing interior fixtures,all high maintainance stuff.

The finished (new) product looks superb,but its all hot air and mirrors,held together by chewing gum.Another good reason for not buying,ten years on all you will have is a pile of dust around your ankles.

If you think the steel haunch was a planned and deliberate addition before or during construction I'm a Christmas tree.

That is pretty funny. You are a Christmas tree

I agree with you. The steel gusset plate and brackets were not part of the original design. That is post-installed. There was some change. Maybe they added some load above. There was something that made some engineer feel the need to reinforce.