10 Killed In Thai Mosque Attack

[Samuian]

RIP victims of senseless violence. Seems there is no end in sight to the unrest in Thailand's deep south and no strategy to bring peace to these troubled provinces.

I've read that Thailand plans to increase security along the border with Malaysia as it's believed the insurgents cross the border easily and enjoy sanctuary and support on the Malay side of the border.

I've never been to Thailand's deep south, but just had a look at the map:

Roughly eyeballing it I'd guesstimate the border is about ~200km long? If Thailand really wanted to secure this border would it really be that difficult? They would also need military vessels patrolling the waters to prevent insurgents infiltrating Thailand by sea. But all in all, it's not an impossible task and Thailand certainly has enough troops secure the border. How many more innocents have to die before decisive action is taken to end this 'insurgency'?

I see, that you never been "down South" the Area bordering Kedar, Perak and Kelantan States in Malaysia, center left or to the west and south is very mountainous forested, rather thinly populated, which makes it very difficult to "control" - it is the same problem as anywhere else with "Guerrilla Gangs....as they have no insignia, uniform or else to be identified.... now THAT is the problem...the people killed could easily be the ones responsible for the bomb attacks... but then as it has been observed and written here - it doesn't make sense - cause if it was retaliation by the army... more violence would flare up - I think the official version is probably not too far off the truth, someone isn't interested in peace as a solution!

Drugs and Smuggle of all kind of goods is BIG Business down there Hat Yai's markets are prospering through it and there is quite a number of people involved... money, money, money.... are the words this tragedy is written in...

[seri thai]

The real sadness is that is Moslems killing other Moslems. The radical groups want to exterminate anyone who preaches tolerance with other groups. It is NOT Christians slaying the infidels like in historic times.

Gen Anupong said he could not say for sure who was responsible for the mosque shootings since no one had claimed responsibility yet, but he condemned the gunmen for their barbarous and cruel act.

What is the evidence that the attackers were Moslem? All references so far are to "insurgents"

My first thought is that this is a false flag op. don't think there are that many warring muslim sects in South Thailand unlike Iraq.

Lots of jungle fatigues and ammo laying around tho.

Killings of individual muslims perceived as collaborators are common, but the the last attack on a mosque or moslem group I heard of was by the thai army.....

It will be interesting to see if anyone claims responsibility and how authentic that claim pans out to be...

[AskTheCPT]

Great I'm in KL Malaysia right now, picking up my passport/visa tomorrow at Thai embassy? Should I wear the bullet-proof? Gunmen gonna open fire on the crowd?

[Datsun240Z]

Not all Muslims are wrong, it are the extremists groups who ruin it for the rest. It seems to be that it's only in their "culture".

[ThaiFelix]

No, something is not quite meshing here. There are lots of slim possibilities, such as security forces, Buddhists, Moslems killing Moslems that wont join or even sacrificed to stir up other Moslems etc. But there is also the possibility that some 'hidden hand', possibly even outside the country, who is opposed to the present government, is trying to create instability and discredit to the govt. by paying off a couple of proffessional gunmen. Just my first thoughts.

[wackysleet]

No, something is not quite meshing here. There are lots of slim possibilities, such as security forces, Buddhists, Moslems killing Moslems that wont join or even sacrificed to stir up other Moslems etc. But there is also the possibility that some 'hidden hand', possibly even outside the country, who is opposed to the present government, is trying to create instability and discredit to the govt. by paying off a couple of proffessional gunmen. Just my first thoughts.

Of course your first thought wouldn't have been one Mr. Thaksin by any chance.

[wackysleet]

No, something is not quite meshing here. There are lots of slim possibilities, such as security forces, Buddhists, Moslems killing Moslems that wont join or even sacrificed to stir up other Moslems etc. But there is also the possibility that some 'hidden hand', possibly even outside the country, who is opposed to the present government, is trying to create instability and discredit to the govt. by paying off a couple of proffessional gunmen. Just my first thoughts.

Of course your first thought wouldn't have been one Mr. Thaksin by any chance.

You do know of course that these troubles in the south have been going on for the last 5yrs.

[ThaiFelix]

No, something is not quite meshing here. There are lots of slim possibilities, such as security forces, Buddhists, Moslems killing Moslems that wont join or even sacrificed to stir up other Moslems etc. But there is also the possibility that some 'hidden hand', possibly even outside the country, who is opposed to the present government, is trying to create instability and discredit to the govt. by paying off a couple of proffessional gunmen. Just my first thoughts.

Of course your first thought wouldn't have been one Mr. Thaksin by any chance.

Oh..theres a thought!

[seri thai]

Great I'm in KL Malaysia right now, picking up my passport/visa tomorrow at Thai embassy? Should I wear the bullet-proof? Gunmen gonna open fire on the crowd?

That depends on which mosque you frequent I think

Avois south Thailand and north Thailand. Don't travel anywhere on a bus or fly on an aeroplane. Avoid boats. Don't visit any tourist islands or use any airports in Thailand. Don't speak to any strangers and don't talk to any thai women in bars. Be careful what you eat or drink. Dont go out in the daytime (dengue) or the night time (malaria) Follow these simple rules and you should be fairly safe....

Or stay at home and watch Discovery Channel

alternatively, go to Pamplona and run in the street when the bulls aren't there

Kids today, sigh

[tranquillize]

South Thailand is in a bad situation. Truly terrible news.

[ThaiFelix]

Great I'm in KL Malaysia right now, picking up my passport/visa tomorrow at Thai embassy? Should I wear the bullet-proof? Gunmen gonna open fire on the crowd?

That depends on which mosque you frequent I think

Avois south Thailand and north Thailand. Don't travel anywhere on a bus or fly on an aeroplane. Avoid boats. Don't visit any tourist islands or use any airports in Thailand. Don't speak to any strangers and don't talk to any thai women in bars. Be careful what you eat or drink. Dont go out in the daytime (dengue) or the night time (malaria) Follow these simple rules and you should be fairly safe....

Or stay at home and watch Discovery Channel

alternatively, go to Pamplona and run in the street when the bulls aren't there

Kids today, sigh

and wash your hands frequently with preferably bottled water.

[Scott]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/1...k-havoc-in-yala

And more bad news from the South. They seem to ratcheting up the situation rapidly.

[Jimothy]

Afull thing to happen, at the end of the day no-matter what colour, nationality or religion those people had families to go back to. I hope the people responsable get a long time behind bars.

[mogoso]

The real sadness is that is Moslems killing other Moslems. The radical groups want to exterminate anyone who preaches tolerance with other groups. It is NOT Christians slaying the infidels like in historic times.

If indeed it turns out to be an attack of moslem on moslem. The planners might look to recent events in Pakistan where after a bombing of a mosque the locals gathered together and have been killing the perpetrators themselves.

[Scott]

Unfortunately, no one knows for sure who the perpetrators are. That means people might just start killing the wrong people.

[brahmburgers]

what are the survivors saying? They were there at the scene. Did no one take down a license plate number or any other clues? Apparently there were two gunmen, but was there also a driver. How did the perpetrators get away?

Survivors would be most likely to know if there were any seething scores to settle, or is threats had been made recently.

Military members can not be ruled out.

What's next? Will there be airport-style security checks at entrances to mosques?

[EndofDays]

"They are trying to make it look like the attackers are the authorities, because Muslims would apparently not shoot inside a mosque. But it's impossible that it is the work of the military,'' he said.

Violence has flared up again in the deep South. Earlier Monday a soldier was killed by a bomb blast and militants shot dead a rubber-tapper. Militants also blew up another army patrol vehicle, wounding nine soldiers.

Of course it was the Army that killed them. They had a patrol vehicle blown up, and a soldier killed, so they dress up in plain cloths and get even by attacking a mosque. Just because the Army spokesman says its not true, doesn't make it not true.

Where's Somchai Neelaphaijit? Dead, killed by the Police.

Paranoid much?

[EndofDays]

It's hard to believe Muslims in Thailand shooting on other Muslims whilst prayering. Not even the most radical person would do that. There has to be some other explanation. It's all very sad and my condolances go out to the family. May they rest in peace.

It is a different mentality. I am American, maybe you are British or an Ozzie. A Thai person proudly says they are Thai. But a muslim is a muslim first. That is the distinction. The problem for muslims if others do no think you are "muslim" enough...or you are too friendly with the local government. That is how they justify attacking a mosque.

[EndofDays]

Unfortuantly the mess in the south has been a long time in the making and will be a long time in the fixing.

There has been a lot of distrust in this area of the government for a long time, and this is one of the reasons why despite being one of the poorest parts of thailand it has the highest attendance of private schools and many of these schools and the newer mosques have been helped with saudi charity money. With this money comes the obligation to take on saudi trained Imams and teachers who are Wahabi.

The Wahabi stance is that the koran is the word of god, perfect and can be the only source of the religion; other teaching of islam are just a distraction.

This is where the problems start. the koran, like all religious books, is contradictory chronologically earlier parts of the book are relatively peaceful and tolerant, whilst the later parts are very much the opposite; this has been keeping scholars busy for 1500 years.

The Wahabi have a simple answer Abrogation if you come across contradictory statements in the koran the chronologically most recent takes precedence. The saudi translation of the koran helpfully shows how almost every statement of peace and tolerance is abrogated by a later statement of the opposite.

If you read the final chapter of the koran you will see it is very explicit about what should happen to non-believers and heretics. This is what we are seeing from Morocco to the Philippines

If this mosque and imam were not Wahabi then its highly likely that the insurgents did the attack, look at events in the last week in somalia. If they were Wahabi, then its likely it was someone else

Whabism gave birth to the Al Qaeda movement and the Taqferi movement in Iraq. It takes everything as a literal translation. They also believe Shi is an abomination of Islam and should be destroyed.

[Hardie]

Just a few grains of salt to season the Mix:

1) My understanding is that the Koran limits compensation to 'only' an eye for an eye/tooth for a tooth; i.e. no punitive damage, or revenge.

2) Why would anyone think these are Muslims killing Muslims?

3) Malaysia is a more developed country than Thailand, no politics there.

4) The people in Narathiwat are not just 'Thai Muslims'. They are ethnic Malays who speak Malay and practice Islam, as all Malays do. They just happen to be on the wrong side of a line that has shifted a few times in the course of history. As with Israel, if the problem is dealt with as a local one, not a Crusade or holy war, there is a better chance of solving it. There are Thais on the other side of that line also, especially the part ceded to the British.

[babykyo]

the muslim mililants is trying to created chaos. making a scene that the army or buddist community is killing the muslim. But I believe that this is done by the bastard muslim mililants themselves.

[sbk]

Just a few grains of salt to season the Mix:

1) My understanding is that the Koran limits compensation to 'only' an eye for an eye/tooth for a tooth; i.e. no punitive damage, or revenge.

2) Why would anyone think these are Muslims killing Muslims?

3) Malaysia is a more developed country than Thailand, no politics there.

4) The people in Narathiwat are not just 'Thai Muslims'. They are ethnic Malays who speak Malay and practice Islam, as all Malays do. They just happen to be on the wrong side of a line that has shifted a few times in the course of history. As with Israel, if the problem is dealt with as a local one, not a Crusade or holy war, there is a better chance of solving it. There are Thais on the other side of that line also, especially the part ceded to the British.

I am sorry, but what do you mean by this?

3) Malaysia is a more developed country than Thailand, no politics there.

I am afraid I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

[Plus]

I don't think Southern insurgents would accept any Malaysian authority either, never mind similar ethnicity.

In five years there has never been an attack on a whole community, inside a mosque - that's very odd here. Insurgents are the least likely suspects, unless there's compelling evidence that they whole community became "impure", and there's none so far.

Also the survivors should be able to tell if the attackers were locals speaking local dialect. I suppose local buddhist vigilantes can't fully imitate local yawi.

[sriracha john]

Thai-Muslim villagers carry the body of a victim of Monday's attack to a cemetery in Joh-I-Rong district of Narathiwat province, in Thailand, Tuesday, June 9, 2009. Gunmen opened fire on a mosque in southern Thailand during evening prayers, killing at least 10 people and wounding another 19 in the violence-plagued region, police said.

AP

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Thai-Muslim men bury victims of Monday's attack at a cemetery in Joh-I-Rong district of Narathiwat province, in Thailand, Tuesday, June 9, 2009.

AP

==================================================================

Thai Muslim villagers look as victims of a mosque attack are buried in Thailand's southern Narathiwat province June 9, 2009. Gunmen killed 10 people and wounded 12 others when they opened fire with automatic weapons at a mosque during evening prayers in Thailand's restive Muslim south, police said on Monday.

REUTERS

[sriracha john]

In five years there has never been an attack on a whole community, inside a mosque - that's very odd here.

the PM thinks so, too...

Cabinet to hold talks on taking new tack

The government will take a new approach to southern violence following Monday night's attack on a mosque in Narathiwat's Cho Airong district which left 10 villagers dead and 12 others injured. The atrocity has prompted Angkhana Neelaphaijit , a member of a Senate Committee set up to find a solution to southern problems, to call for no interference in the investigation to find the gunmen.

Cabinet ministers in charge of security and the southern problem will discuss revisions to the policy on the restive region to handle the insurgent violence in talks tomorrow, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said.

"The [recent] acts of violence are different from the previous ones," Mr Abhisit said. "We may have to change our approach. The mosque shooting is not normal. It does not follow the pattern of violence of the insurgents we have seen before."

However, Mr Abhisit stressed that economic development would remain instrumental in putting an end to violence in the strife-torn region. "Development is a long-term solution," he said. "Development projects have to carry on without disruption. This is their [the insurgents'] very aim to block development."

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-10

[Jungian]

The difference is people people killing in the name of religion are more passionate and and willing to kill and die as they think there is some great reward waiting for them. Buddhists and atheists in general are non confrontational when it comes to bodily harm and avoid fighting whenever possible. Just look at how Thailand has handled the South, George Bush even offered troops and Thailand declined saying they would rather find a peaceful solution which is a pipe dream.

[Plus]

Halfwit Prawit came up with a few platitudes he calls "ideas". They sound good only on the surface.

The Nation

Stuff like that has been circulated for years without any impact whatsoever.

Besides, if the South was really given a large degree of self-governance, what are the chances it would not turn into something like Chechnya or Afganistan?

And why should Thailand give any ground to insurgents who regulary cut people's heads off?

Or why should it accomodate moderate muslims and their leaders who want more independence - they are not the troublemakers, they are often targets themselves, at the moment they are just opportunists, piggybacking their demands on the back of insurgency.

[Plus]

Buddhists and atheists in general are non confrontational when it comes to bodily harm and avoid fighting whenever possible.

Duh, that's why Khmers love them so much... That's why Thaland has the second highest rate of murders or something.

Don't confuse the reality with aspirations.

[justanothercybertosser]

The difference is people people killing in the name of religion are more passionate and and willing to kill and die as they think there is some great reward waiting for them. Buddhists and atheists in general are non confrontational when it comes to bodily harm and avoid fighting whenever possible. Just look at how Thailand has handled the South, George Bush even offered troops and Thailand declined saying they would rather find a peaceful solution which is a pipe dream.

Not really. Thailand is a sovereign state, and will for obvious reasons be more than reluctant to have foreign troops fighting on its soil. There is no indication that Thailand looks for a peaceful solution in the South. The history over the last hundreds of years there has been a long line of rebellions against the Siamese which were brutally cracked down. The Thai state wants a solution in the South that does not include compromising with the local population, and only considers Thai nationalism - a point that has been widely criticized by many academics, NGO's and other international organizations. So, for example, have demands for ideas such as autonomy for the three southern provinces been always clearly rejected.

Also you previous point regarding the "peaceful" nature of Buddhism and Buddhists ignores realities.

During WW2 you have had several Japanese Buddhist sects actively promoting the Japanese war effort, occupation of China, etc. In Sri Lanka the many Temples have been actively involved in the promotion for a violent solution in the civil war.

Here in Thailand you have had famous monks promoting the killing of communists, and also during the drug war killings monks such as Luang Por Khun have promoted the killings by stating that "killing of drug dealers would not draw adverse Karma".

[jayboy]

The Straits Times' initial take, bringing out a couple of additional points unmentioned -needless to say- in local English language press reports.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_388288.html