JR Texas Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. Excerpt: Al Gore has made the disappearing snows of Mount Kilimanjaro a cornerstone of his crusade against global warming. In his film "An Inconvenient Truth" for example, he says: "Within the decade, there will be no more snows of Kilimanjaro." But now researchers from the U.S. and Austria say global warming isn't the cause, and the fluctuations are nothing new. For those of you who want to see what responsible scientists have to say about the climate change naysayers, feel free to go here: http://www.realclimate.org/ and here: http://info-pollution.com/warming.htm They really dislike it when somebody provides the public with these links....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwayeagle Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I saw this documentary a year back or so called the great global warming swindle.hopefully all of u have seen it,but maybe there still are some who dont. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=288952680655100870 Ps.I do not take everything i see or hear 4 granted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdman Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. Yes birdbrain I have to agree with you, your obviously an elequent intelectual and your opinion is obviously more valid than 19 thousand scientists. PS ask yourself - does Al Gore make a lot of money from so called global warming! Being not a scientist, I cannot comment on the snow on Kilimanjaro for instance. But I have been several times on the Pasterze, Austria's biggest glacier. And I have seen the glacier dramatically shrink over the years. So, maybe you are right and that has no significant consequences at all. Just a life with rocks instead of glaciers. But maybe it has. Reducing air pollution is not bad idea anyway. Name is Birdman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimincm Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. Might help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatree Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. Thousands of years??? The satellite ice records began 30 YEARS AGO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) We probably don't deserve to survive as a species. Reading many of the posts here would certainly make an objective alien come to that conclusion. I don't know how some of you with children can look at yourselves in the mirror. When push comes to shove, we aren't much more intelligent than other animals on earth. We deal with issues when they are in our face. A snake is in the vicinity of a meerkat, the meerkat reacts. By the time this global warming has passed the point of no return for the planet, then all of our human heads will be in the snake's mouth ... We have the opportunity, unlike the meerkat, to change our ways to prevent our demise as a species, but we are too stupid and greedy to take it. Edited June 16, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdanielsesq Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 All thanks to big Al und das polar bears. Thats why its called weather - we dont know whether it will rain or shine?! We are exiting an Ice Age. Thailand is not connect to, nor has anything to do with the ROW BR>Jack I never forget the day when PGE offered me $200 for an old reefer they had never even seen - we didnt have TVfones in the mountains then. They actually sent a crew by to pick it up &I got the $200 credit. Carbon Credits!! it worked - the following day it snowed - for 2 weeks. Ya tax Dollars at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deprogrammed Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. Excerpt: Al Gore has made the disappearing snows of Mount Kilimanjaro a cornerstone of his crusade against global warming. In his film "An Inconvenient Truth" for example, he says: "Within the decade, there will be no more snows of Kilimanjaro." But now researchers from the U.S. and Austria say global warming isn't the cause, and the fluctuations are nothing new. For those of you who want to see what responsible scientists have to say about the climate change naysayers, feel free to go here: http://www.realclimate.org/ and here: http://info-pollution.com/warming.htm They really dislike it when somebody provides the public with these links....... I think you mean paid for whore scientisits - my hamburger loving friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deprogrammed Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) We probably don't deserve to survive as a species. Reading many of the posts here would certainly make an objective alien come to that conclusion. I don't know how some of you with children can look at yourselves in the mirror. When push comes to shove, we aren't much more intelligent than other animals on earth. We deal with issues when they are in our face. A snake is in the vicinity of a meerkat, the meerkat reacts. By the time this global warming has passed the point of no return for the planet, then all of our human heads will be in the snake's mouth ... We have the opportunity, unlike the meerkat, to change our ways to prevent our demise as a species, but we are too stupid and greedy to take it. Agreed, to survive we must teach our children to take on our natural roles as humans, Male and female! Edited June 16, 2009 by deprogrammed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Agreed, to survive we must teach our children to take on our natural roles as humans, Male and female! I am helping the planet more by NOT BREEDING than those who are creating too many children and then befouling the planet making it uninhabitable for future generations. Breeding is not our current problem as a species. We've got that covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Texas Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 We probably don't deserve to survive as a species. Reading many of the posts here would certainly make an objective alien come to that conclusion. I don't know how some of you with children can look at yourselves in the mirror. When push comes to shove, we aren't much more intelligent than other animals on earth. We deal with issues when they are in our face. A snake is in the vicinity of a meerkat, the meerkat reacts. By the time this global warming has passed the point of no return for the planet, then all of our human heads will be in the snake's mouth ... We have the opportunity, unlike the meerkat, to change our ways to prevent our demise as a species, but we are too stupid and greedy to take it. Good post........great analogy........we have created a culture of irresponsibility that has turned its back on both present and future generations. 100 years from now, future generations (probably living underground) will pick up their history books and read about us and come to the conclusion that we were "dumb as rocks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deprogrammed Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Agreed, to survive we must teach our children to take on our natural roles as humans, Male and female! I am helping the planet more by NOT BREEDING than those who are creating too many children and then befouling the planet making it uninhabitable for future generations. Breeding is not our current problem as a species. We've got that covered. I certainly agree that you are helping the planet by not breeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatree Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 We probably don't deserve to survive as a species. Reading many of the posts here would certainly make an objective alien come to that conclusion. I don't know how some of you with children can look at yourselves in the mirror. When push comes to shove, we aren't much more intelligent than other animals on earth. We deal with issues when they are in our face. A snake is in the vicinity of a meerkat, the meerkat reacts. By the time this global warming has passed the point of no return for the planet, then all of our human heads will be in the snake's mouth ... We have the opportunity, unlike the meerkat, to change our ways to prevent our demise as a species, but we are too stupid and greedy to take it. I agree that there is a similarity in intelligence between humans and animals - if you peel away the higher levels of the human brain you are left with a very primitive section that deals with our survival instincts. This part of the brain operates independently of rational thought and is really very stupid and reactionary, and it is this very part of the brain that is being poked at with all the AGW hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdman Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 We probably don't deserve to survive as a species. Reading many of the posts here would certainly make an objective alien come to that conclusion. I don't know how some of you with children can look at yourselves in the mirror. When push comes to shove, we aren't much more intelligent than other animals on earth. We deal with issues when they are in our face. A snake is in the vicinity of a meerkat, the meerkat reacts. By the time this global warming has passed the point of no return for the planet, then all of our human heads will be in the snake's mouth ... We have the opportunity, unlike the meerkat, to change our ways to prevent our demise as a species, but we are too stupid and greedy to take it. I agree that there is a similarity in intelligence between humans and animals - if you peel away the higher levels of the human brain you are left with a very primitive section that deals with our survival instincts. This part of the brain operates independently of rational thought and is really very stupid and reactionary, and it is this very part of the brain that is being poked at with all the AGW hysteria. as nicely demonstrated by your avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Good to see so many people willing to questions what world governments and government sponsored scientists are telling us about climate change, I won't use the term global warming again, seems it's out dated. Does this mean the scientists/politicians/media that first used the term Global warming, got in wrong? Personally I believe we should be taking care of our environment, based on facts and data. The climate change issue as become so politicalised that it's difficult to know what to believe, we are given computer models, speculation and opinion as evidence. The only real data we have is temperature and rainfall records, Thailand has data for the past 70 years or so, the US has records that go back around 200 years. Take a look at the data and see if you can see anything other than natural yearly variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Yes the tide is turning. Mostly when the term global warming mentioned as the cause of something these days, it is considered tongue in cheek (except from the media, the last fanatical holdouts, and those inside the AGW industry) it is usually received with a chuckle from those who know better. The real travesty here is that the perpetrators who made huge gains over the AGW scam will simply move on to the next con job and will never be prosecuted. The one genuine benefit of this whole thing was a much greater awareness of alternative methods for energy and food production which hopefully will benefit our ecosystem and perhaps the standard of living for those in poverty. But the rich got richer, governments have more taxation power, and global government is a few steps closer. This was the real motivation behind the billions thrown at demonizing carbon, which is in fact as important as oxygen for the survival of all species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Yes the tide is turning. Mostly when the term global warming mentioned as the cause of something these days, it is considered tongue in cheek (except from the media, the last fanatical holdouts, and those inside the AGW industry) it is usually received with a chuckle from those who know better.The real travesty here is that the perpetrators who made huge gains over the AGW scam will simply move on to the next con job and will never be prosecuted. The one genuine benefit of this whole thing was a much greater awareness of alternative methods for energy and food production which hopefully will benefit our ecosystem and perhaps the standard of living for those in poverty. But the rich got richer, governments have more taxation power, and global government is a few steps closer. This was the real motivation behind the billions thrown at demonizing carbon, which is in fact as important as oxygen for the survival of all species. Possibly the next con job will have something to do with a mutating pig virus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texpat Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Possibly the next con job will have something to do with a mutating pig virus? Some TV rubes have already bought their gas masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I like this quote a lot. It characterizes the insanity of global warming deniers to a T: What is inexcusable is US media coverage and the blinkered conservative strategy of scientific denial — what can only be described as a murder-suicide pact with the human race http://climateprogress.org/2009/03/17/medi...orst-case-ipcc/ What is really "funny" politically is that this is the same crowd that has the cajones to call themselves pro family and pro LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagatus Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sorry, I know this is completely OT I once read some good advice "If you are arguing with and idiot, make sure he is not doing the same." Browsing though this thread I would say, "If you are arguing with a fanatic, and he is doing the same, no good will come out of it. Both will just ignore each others point." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatree Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The following excerpt from a TV show really shows how 'useful idiots' are used to help push forward the AGW agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogoso Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 If it doesn't get replaced can you explain how it was built up in the first place? This isn't seasonal ice. It is ancient glacial ice. Like millions of years. Got it now? I am sorry, I should have said it isn't replaced for millions of years, as if anyone really cares about that far into the future. Global warming deniers, why? So you don't feel guilty about consuming? You don't like to be an adult and face harsh realities? You let your personal distaste for Al Gore and liberals take over your own ability to be objective about science? I really don't understand. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Why would I feel guilty about consumimg. We utilize what we need, recycle what we can of our waste, and utilize our energy consumption the most frugally possible. We use passive solar in home and have solar assisted water heater. That being said I don't believe in the tooth fairy or santa claus. Neither do I believe in global warming as man caused. Weather has been occurring a long time, long before man and long after man it'll still occur. Seems to me a few years back in the Alps they encountered a man who died and because the glacier ice melted that covered him. He was killed by another human, and ice covered him and subsequently melted recently. Millions of years nah. Glaciers do last that long, but glaciers have been melting for a long time, there is some ebb and flow, hence our swiss body, measurement of it is only recent, as is measurement of temperature. To continue to call it global warming is passe, its proponents now call it climate change. It was becoming a tough sell using the global warming label, since temps seem to be going down the past few years. When they do need to show a recent warming trend they pick out a small area that has had a warming trend. Selective statistics, truthful but not globally. Chattanoogas a favorite of theirs to use, but an odd thing is I live 90 south of there and our summers have been a bit cooler, both just localized pecularitys. Climate change is way better so whatever way the temps go, they can bemoan its man caused. You wanna talk about the pollution man creates and poisons the enviorment I'm there to a point, but when the point reaches absurbity you'll find I fell off the wagon a ways back. We do need to take better care of our enviorment its up to us individually to change ourselves and those around us, not grubby greedy gov'ts., the more power you invest in those, the more we lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yabaaaa Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. So no hot spot appearing under near the glacier could make it melt then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Texas Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Melting glaciers and ice clods breaking away are definitely signs, that there is something going on with mother nature. To observe that one has not be a scientist. There is always something going on with mother nature - so your point is what. Or dont you have one right, you can even say that, if a comet is falling on your head. The point is, that ice, which was more or less at the same size for thousands of years, suddenly diminishes rapidly. The only logical reason can be a warmer climate. or Al Gores' team is manipulating that secretly with immersion boiling devices during the night time. So no hot spot appearing under near the glacier could make it melt then? I am certain (not) that the glaciers are melting worldwide because Al Gore has placed heating devices underneath all of them to make it appear like "global warming"..........then he can make lots of money off of speeches and books........yes, that must be what is happening. The last thing that could be happening is that the big and greedy beyond imagination oil companies are trying to convince the public that global warming is nonsense so that the can continue to make big money at the expense of both present and future generations. Are you off your rocker? Once again.......there is a massive amount of scientific data out there that shows global warming is a reality. The naysayers ignore reality and hard science. As an antidote to nonsense, please go to these sites for some interesting info. from real scientists working on the problem: http://www.realclimate.org/ http://info-pollution.com/warming.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dear JR "Once again.......there is a massive amount of scientific data out there that shows global warming is a reality. The naysayers ignore reality and hard science". Would you mind posting a little of this data that so convinces you, for us naysayers to look at? Try to keep it Thai related, it is a Thai forum after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Texas Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dear JR"Once again.......there is a massive amount of scientific data out there that shows global warming is a reality. The naysayers ignore reality and hard science". Would you mind posting a little of this data that so convinces you, for us naysayers to look at? Try to keep it Thai related, it is a Thai forum after all. I just posted it.......you ignored it........then implied that nothing was posted that was convincing.......Thailand is part of planet earth the last time I looked. There is no point in having a scientific debate with people who reject reason in favor of pure emotion. Here, let me post the links again: http://www.realclimate.org/ http://info-pollution.com/warming.htm I strongly suggest that people read what these responsible scientists have to say about the pseudo-scientific naysayers........they blow all of their misleading arguments to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have always been a global warming skeptic, because I've never seen any proof that global warming actually exists. So I decided to look at temperature records for Thailand. I chose Chiang Mai because there is data available from 1943 to 2009. I chose April because it is generally one of Thailand's hottest months. The lowest average April maximum temperature in Chiang Mai was in 1949 (29.9 C) The highest average April maximum temperature in Chiang Mai was in 1983 (39.2 C) The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai in 1944 was 36.1 C The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai in 2009 was 36.1 C The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai between 1943 and 2009 was 36.1 C <deleted>,where's the global warming??? Horrible laymen science rationale. It's on a global scale averaging all the temperatures over the world, not just looking a microcosm and one city for one month. Doesn't work that way. Global warming will actually cause some places to have a lower average temperature. But overall, it's up. Hey, I'm a layman too, but at least I'm smart enough to realize that. I think also the more worrying thing is the temperature of the oceans, besides the temps recorded overland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Sorry, I know this is completely OTI once read some good advice "If you are arguing with and idiot, make sure he is not doing the same." Browsing though this thread I would say, "If you are arguing with a fanatic, and he is doing the same, no good will come out of it. Both will just ignore each others point." It's seem you are quite correct, not much point debating with someone of has already made up their mind, based on other peoples opinions. Edited June 21, 2009 by Garry9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Little Henny Penny thought the sky was falling, falling to the ground. Little Henny Penny said the sky was falling, It almost knocked her down! Run, Little Henny Penny! Tell your friends! Run, Little Henny Penny, before it ends! Run, Little Henny Penny! Tell the king! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priceless Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have always been a global warming skeptic, because I've never seen any proof that global warming actually exists. So I decided to look at temperature records for Thailand. I chose Chiang Mai because there is data available from 1943 to 2009. I chose April because it is generally one of Thailand's hottest months. The lowest average April maximum temperature in Chiang Mai was in 1949 (29.9 C) The highest average April maximum temperature in Chiang Mai was in 1983 (39.2 C) The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai in 1944 was 36.1 C The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai in 2009 was 36.1 C The average maximum April temperature in Chiang Mai between 1943 and 2009 was 36.1 C <deleted>,where's the global warming??? Disclaimer: I am not a climatologist so I don't have any qualifications regarding this subject, except some training and a lot of experience in statistics. It appears that the phenomenon is now preferably referred to as "Global Climate Change". The reason is apparently that the effects will vary greatly in different locations. One of the possible effects that seems to be attracting an amount of current attention is that there is a risk that the Gulf Stream and in particular the North Atlantic drift will weaken, causing cooling and possibly a new Ice Age in the Nordic countries. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_t...ine_circulation ) Now to the OP: Quoting yearly averages is rather pointless, as anybody can se from posted graph that variations between individual years are far greater than any trend. However, one can go to the original data and do a trend analysis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_linear_regression ) to determine the change over the studied period (1943-2009). I have just done that and came up with the following graph (please note that data is missing for several years): As you can see, the trend line does show an increase over this time period. The temperature trend was at 35.6 degrees in 1943 and had risen to 36.8 degrees in 2009, a rise of 1.2 degrees in 46 years. This of course proves nothing about Global Climate Change, but it does prove that the data the OP based his post on demonstrates the opposite of what he is claiming / Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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