Who Am I?

[srisatch]

Somewhere in that thread: ‘A Serious Topic’, well it was not, that was thankfully closed, there lurked what I thought was something interesting…It may be that it has been discussed ad infinitum somewhere and somewhen,.. but I could not find it..

If so…forget it!

My daughter, who is three, and speaks Thai, English and French, asks me, and Mummy….

Why does everyone call Daddy a ‘farang’? and .. Am I a ‘farang’? and.. Why does auntie call me luk farang and luk khreung?

We have explained.

But

I know the origins of the word lie in the Thai experience of French travellers in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that at root ‘farang’ is a Thai rendering of Francais.

How?

Did it come about that every westerner was/is known as a ‘farang’?

And,

Nowadays, how is it that many Thai people both have no interest, nor are able, to distinguish between French, Arab, Russian, American etc. people?

One might surmise that it is/was the same as Europeans calling all African people-‘black’- and all Asian’s ‘Chinese’ or using worse terms!

I realise that the term ‘farang’ holds, for the most part, few negative connotations in Thai. It is not, if I understand right, like ‘nigger’ or ‘gook’ or even the, relatively, affectionate ’frog’

But,

Every word has its dimensions and I am not convinced that ‘farang’ is a value free term.It certainly denotes ‘Not Thai’. Indeed the condensing of all people who are not ‘Asian’ or ‘Chocolate’ into the term has its problems.

It is partly a matter of usage. While it may well be that the word has no intrinsic pejorative meaning, when I hear it used it often does have.

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc. And there are different words for each people..even each Hill Tribe has its own Thai name.

They are also able, effortlessly it seems to me, to distinguish Bangkok people, from southerners and northerners, indeed from each Jangwat. Just as ‘farangs’ can distinguish, by their accents at least, Geordies from Liverpudlians or Berliners from Bavarians. Why would they-the Thais- not, then, apply the same distinctions to ‘farangs’…all of whom, as with Asians, speak different languages, as the simplest marker?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Somewhere in that thread: ‘A Serious Topic’, well it was not,  that was thankfully closed, there lurked what I thought was something interesting…It may be that it has been discussed ad infinitum somewhere and somewhen,.. but I could not find it..

If so…forget it!

My daughter, who is three, and speaks Thai, English and French, asks me, and Mummy….

Why does everyone call Daddy a ‘farang’? and .. Am I a ‘farang’? and.. Why does auntie call me luk farang and luk khreung?

We have explained.

But

I know the origins of the word lie in the Thai experience of French travellers in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that at root ‘farang’ is a Thai rendering of Francais.

How?

Did it come about that every westerner was/is  known as a ‘farang’?

And,

Nowadays, how is it that many Thai people both have no interest, nor are able, to distinguish between French, Arab, Russian, American etc. people?

One might surmise that it is/was the same as Europeans calling all African people-‘black’- and all Asian’s ‘Chinese’ or using worse terms!

I realise that the term ‘farang’ holds, for the most part, few negative connotations in Thai. It is not, if I understand right, like ‘nigger’ or ‘gook’ or even the, relatively, affectionate ’frog’

But,

Every word has its dimensions and I am not convinced that ‘farang’ is a value free term.It certainly denotes ‘Not Thai’. Indeed the condensing of all people who are not ‘Asian’ or ‘Chocolate’ into the term has its problems.

It is partly a matter of usage. While it may well be that the word has no intrinsic pejorative meaning, when I hear it used it often does have.

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc. And there are different words for each people..even each Hill Tribe has its own Thai name.

They are also able, effortlessly it seems to me, to distinguish Bangkok people, from southerners and northerners, indeed from each Jangwat. Just as ‘farangs’ can distinguish, by their accents at least, Geordies from Liverpudlians or Berliners from Bavarians. Why would they-the Thais- not, then, apply the same distinctions to ‘farangs’…all of whom, as with Asians, speak different languages, as the simplest marker?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

leuk kreung means half Thai. Farang is applied to white Europeans. There is some argument as to whether the name derived from the abundance of French in Thailand in the early days.

[Jai Dee]

I know the origins of the word lie in the Thai experience of French travellers in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that at root ‘farang’ is a Thai rendering of Francais.

How?

Did it come about that every westerner was/is  known as a ‘farang’?

leuk kreung means half Thai. Farang is applied to white Europeans. There is some argument as to whether the name derived from the abundance of French in Thailand in the early days.

Why not post this in the Thai Language forum and ask someone like Snowleopard to translate it into Thai script to see if you get a response from the Thai TV members?

An interesting topic...

[gburns57au]

I know the origins of the word lie in the Thai experience of French travellers in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that at root ‘farang’ is a Thai rendering of Francais.

How?

Did it come about that every westerner was/is  known as a ‘farang’?

leuk kreung means half Thai. Farang is applied to white Europeans. There is some argument as to whether the name derived from the abundance of French in Thailand in the early days.

Why not post this in the Thai Language forum and ask someone like Snowleopard to translate it into Thai script to see if you get a response from the Thai TV members?

An interesting topic...

It depends on where you are.....as a half Thai in Thailand you would be a luk krueng.....in the US you would be a Thai except to other thais......because you are being titled according to your looks.

The word for farang is derived from farangset the word for a french person. The origins of this can only be surmised....maybe the confusion between early french traders and traders from other white countries...."same same but different"

I met a thai girl recently who had distinct euorpean features.....eyes were light brown, aquiline nose and freckles and a few others I wont go into here....she swears she was a true Thai and there was no farang history in her family, all the rest were distinctly Thai....however her family had lived in the port area of Thailand for generations....my thoughts were that she was a genetic throwback to the time of the early traders and maybe an ancestor that had a brief affair with a sailor or had made some extra money as many people do.

Edited February 15, 2005 by gburns57au

[JimGant]

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc

Yes, but what do they call: Singaporean Chinese; Thai Chinese; or China Chinese?

Have a feeling it's 'chine." Just like a French white person, British white person, or any European looking white person is a 'farang.' (?)

I've never thought of the word 'farang' as derogatory, since I know they really don't think I'm necessarily French ; but I sure know who they're talking about when the word comes up, and I'm the only white roundeye in the place.

[Shola]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

[srisatch]

Somewhere in that thread: ‘A Serious Topic’, well it was not,  that was thankfully closed, there lurked what I thought was something interesting…It may be that it has been discussed ad infinitum somewhere and somewhen,.. but I could not find it..

If so…forget it!

My daughter, who is three, and speaks Thai, English and French, asks me, and Mummy….

Why does everyone call Daddy a ‘farang’? and .. Am I a ‘farang’? and.. Why does auntie call me luk farang and luk khreung?

We have explained.

But

I know the origins of the word lie in the Thai experience of French travellers in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that at root ‘farang’ is a Thai rendering of Francais.

How?

Did it come about that every westerner was/is  known as a ‘farang’?

And,

Nowadays, how is it that many Thai people both have no interest, nor are able, to distinguish between French, Arab, Russian, American etc. people?

One might surmise that it is/was the same as Europeans calling all African people-‘black’- and all Asian’s ‘Chinese’ or using worse terms!

I realise that the term ‘farang’ holds, for the most part, few negative connotations in Thai. It is not, if I understand right, like ‘nigger’ or ‘gook’ or even the, relatively, affectionate ’frog’

But,

Every word has its dimensions and I am not convinced that ‘farang’ is a value free term.It certainly denotes ‘Not Thai’. Indeed the condensing of all people who are not ‘Asian’ or ‘Chocolate’ into the term has its problems.

It is partly a matter of usage. While it may well be that the word has no intrinsic pejorative meaning, when I hear it used it often does have.

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc. And there are different words for each people..even each Hill Tribe has its own Thai name.

They are also able, effortlessly it seems to me, to distinguish Bangkok people, from southerners and northerners, indeed from each Jangwat. Just as ‘farangs’ can distinguish, by their accents at least, Geordies from Liverpudlians or Berliners from Bavarians. Why would they-the Thais- not, then, apply the same distinctions to ‘farangs’…all of whom, as with Asians, speak different languages, as the simplest marker?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

leuk kreung means half Thai. Farang is applied to white Europeans. There is some argument as to whether the name derived from the abundance of French in Thailand in the early days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

C'mon Doc...You sound like an experienced guy?!...I have read your other posts..you can do better than that...we all know what it 'means'...the Q is WHAT does it really mean...and what does it mean to be called half and half if you are small.....until recently being a luk khreung farang was a passport to fame..now I think it is better to be a luk khreung Chin...but maybe that, too, will change for better or worse

Edited February 15, 2005 by srisatch

[anna234cn]

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont think so. I have been asked again and again:"Are you a Korean?" or "Are you a Japanese?" Actually, I am a Chinese.

Thai people even think Korean characters are from Japanese and Chinese.

[samran]

Thais are well able to distinguish between Asian peoples: Chinese, Thais, Laos, Burmese, Koreans, Japanese etc. And there are different words for each people..even each Hill Tribe has its own Thai name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe maybe educated Thai's would be able to differentiate. In my experience, Thai's - like most nationalities, can't tell the difference between any of these nationalities that you mention.

Why would they-the Thais- not, then, apply the same distinctions to ‘farangs’…all of whom, as with Asians, speak different languages, as the simplest marker?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because there is a simple catch all word that defines a 'white' person. There is not a commonly used classifier for Asians analogous to 'Farang' in the Thai language, purely and simply. Perhaps there is a complex linguistic explanation for this, but on a day to day level, it is just the way the language works.

[kat]

If I remember what I read accurately, Farang also means French.

The French were some of the first Europeans in Thailand, and the term for French soon stretched to mean all white foreigners.

And to answer the original question: your child is both. There is no way you can separate one from the other, the same way you cannot separate different ice cream flavors after they've been mixed. It's a different flavor all together, and a good one, I might add

[samran]

Or you can be both and once....not hard at all.

[Neeranam]

I realise that the term ‘farang’ holds, for the most part, few negative connotations in Thai. It is not, if I understand right, like ‘nigger’ or ‘gook’ or even the, relatively, affectionate ’frog’

But,

Every word has its dimensions and I am not convinced that ‘farang’ is a value free term.It certainly denotes ‘Not Thai’. Indeed the condensing of all people who are not ‘Asian’ or ‘Chocolate’ into the term has its problems.

It is partly a matter of usage. While it may well be that the word has no intrinsic pejorative meaning, when I hear it used it often does have.

In my experience 'farang' can be used as a derogatory classifier. This depends on who says it and the tone. The tone I hear sometimes is nothing like the fruit.

Why do educated Thais not say it to our faces? Why do they say foreigner?

I think it was once not offensive but has become more derogatory as time passes. Eventually it will seldom be used, only as an insult.

Thais can differentiate between Arabs and farang. Arabs are classed 'kaek khao', white Indian. Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis are 'kaek'. This word is often used derogatorily.

Your kid is called 'look farang' as she is different. Same as mine, it is annoying but have to accept it.

Similarly, 'Jaek' for Chinese. It is now a no-no. I made a joke about 'Jaekie Chan' the other day, and the Chinese Thai guys didn't think it was funny. Funny as they called me 'farang'.

One problem is that the kids are not taught Geography at school like in my country. They only think 'Farangland' and 'Passa farang'(English). The look on their faces when I say that I don't speak English, I am from Khazikstan.

[Shola]

My hubby doesn't mind other Thai's refering to me as a 'Farang' but he does get annoyed when I'm refered to as 'Maam farang' which just means farang woman but I think it's also a slightly derogatory term for a white woman. Anybody else heard this term used or know anything more about it?

[mbkudu]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

I heard that the first were the Portugese. Anyway, not much difference; an invader is an invader in most minds. In those ancient times foreigners were not there for a friendly holiday, but for plunder and booty, arrrrhh! So, I would venture a guess that the term has derogatory origins, but as someone else here said has morphed into a harmless label.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I heard that the first were the Portugese. Anyway, not much difference; an invader is an invader in most minds. In those ancient times foreigners were not there for a friendly holiday, but for plunder and booty, arrrrhh! So, I would venture a guess that the term has derogatory origins, but as someone else here said has morphed into a harmless label.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History favours the Portugese as the earliest traders

[astral]

My daughter, who is three, and speaks Thai, English and French, asks me, and Mummy….

Why does everyone call Daddy a ‘farang’? and .. Am I a ‘farang’? and.. Why does auntie call me luk farang and luk khreung?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Auntie is right she is both, and will likely acquire the nick name of Lang as she grows up.

I am not sure there is any real prejudice in it, any more than for someone

called Uan (fat). It is a comment, not a slur as it would be in the west.

She is/will be beautiful as children of mixed race often are.

Which may cause you even more worry when she reaches teens.............

[lampard10]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just you girls.....................The guys were called Man Falang

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just you girls.....................The guys were called Man Falang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or potato head

[cdnvic]

My inlaws don't seem to call me farung at all, rather just refer about me to people as Canadian. Maybe its because they're Chinese ethnicly and are very insistant that they are Thais, not chinese-thai. I guess they know what its like so don't do the farung thing with me. I hope this means our kids won't have to go through it... with family anyway.

cv

[srisatch]

Lots of good stuff here...thank you....

“Because there is a simple catch all word that defines a 'white' person. There is not a commonly used classifier for Asians analogous to 'Farang' in the Thai language, purely and simply. Perhaps there is a complex linguistic explanation for this, but on a day to day level, it is just the way the language works”.

Yes I am sure you are right,..it is mainly just an easy way to categorise… but it is still ‘us’ and ‘them’!

“Auntie is right she is both, and will likely acquire the nick name of Lang as she grows up.

I am not sure there is any real prejudice in it, any more than for someone

called Uan (fat). It is a comment, not a slur as it would be in the west.

She is/will be beautiful as children of mixed race often are.

Which may cause you even more worry when she reaches teens.”.....

We have a fat friend who calls himself, quite happily, ‘Moo’..when he phones people he simply says Ee Moo speaking!

But that is a sort of Thai joke…I think the farang thing is capable of more ‘spite’?!

Is it not funny about the looks of luk khreung?…She has Thai eyes, fair hair and white skin…and many Thais here call her luk farang rather than luk khreung…she does not look Thai…but then my wife is quite ‘pale’ and people ask her if she is Japanese and talk to her in Chinese, assuming she is from HK.

Teens? Oh she will have been transported.. I can do without a teenage pregnancy and a Lao son-in-law!

“My inlaws don't seem to call me farung at all, rather just refer about me to people as Canadian. Maybe its because they're Chinese ethnicly and are very insistant that they are Thais, not chinese-thai. I guess they know what its like so don't do the farung thing with me. I hope this means our kids won't have to go through it... with family anyway”.

Yes..my family do not call me a farang, either…I find this whole Thai thing about defining and classifying quite tiring! My family spends hours determining whether or not so and so is ‘beautiful’, ‘rich’ ‘Thai or Chinese..or how much of each’ or ‘Lao’ ‘exactly how old she is, whether she looks her age’…..’why she does not look like her father…why she ???etc’

And so the discussions about what percentage of which part of my daughters are ‘farang’ or ‘Thai’ are endless…physically and characterwise

[Neeranam]

I can do without a teenage pregnancy and a Lao son-in-law!

I agree with the pregnancy, but!

Do you know any Loatians?

I would be quite happy if one of my daughters were to marry someone from Lao, if they were in love with them. Well maybe not happy but ok. Thai men in my opinion are worse.

Mine are referred to as look farang due to their very light skin. Sometimes even 'kaek khao' (white Indian). I think the ones that look Thai are called 'look kreung' more.

Chinese Thais do not say farang so much probably as they are very aware of what it is like to be called 'Jaek'.

[Heng]

Farangs are often just 'foreigners.' My friends refer to me as a farang occasionally even though I am 100% Thai Chinese. Like... 'you better say your wedding vows clearly, because falangs like you might not get their sin sod back.'

Or way back when I was teaching, "is he Thai?... no, Japanese I think..." *then I'd speak in my native English speaker accent* "aww, pen farang."

Plenty of cases where my luk krueng friends are referred to as farangs and not luk kruengs as well. "Yeah, he's dating some farang actress." "Really? From what country?" "Here, of course."

[srisatch]

I can do without a teenage pregnancy and a Lao son-in-law!

I agree with the pregnancy, but!

Do you know any Loatians?

I would be quite happy if one of my daughters were to marry someone from Lao, if they were in love with them. Well maybe not happy but ok. Thai men in my opinion are worse.

Mine are referred to as look farang due to their very light skin. Sometimes even 'kaek khao' (white Indian). I think the ones that look Thai are called 'look kreung' more.

Chinese Thais do not say farang so much probably as they are very aware of what it is like to be called 'Jaek'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh! Grandpa came from Vientiane...

I was checking out the insults with K...Eee Lao is clearly the worst...Chaek Deun Fai is not nice for Chinese..ie hot hearts!.. I said you can't say Eee Thai?..oh yes, you can...thank you very much!! I Thai...!

The kaek word is interesting...upon interrogation...apparently wife has been referred to as Kaek Thai..because of white skin

In fact it all appears to come down to skin colour...hence not just the kilos of shelves in Tesco and Tops devoted to 'whitening' creams, but also the total belief in 'luck' if you have white thighs...and here there are lots of them...Chinese genes I should say!!....after all why else would some 60 year old hyena faced farang be able to pull a teenage Thai starlet..except the wallet, of course....the things we do for lerve!

[Boh Bpen Yang]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just you girls.....................The guys were called Man Falang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or potato head

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand that "man" "มัน " is also the indefinite pronoun "it" used in refering to animals or things. I have also been told by my wife that some people, especially pretend girlfriends sometimes use this in reference to their 'farang boyfriend'. She said it is an absolute declaration of disrespect.

She also tells me that to use farang as a pronoun is also disrespectful (compared to using the persons proper name or a proper pronoun for second or third person 'เขา or ท่าน').

From that view I would say that it would show disrespect in the sense that the word does not acknowledge a person as an individual but a member of a general class of people.

But in reference to westerners in general it is common and accepted. Just as Asian or Oriental are accepted as not insulting in English as a generalization of all things eastern.

Edited for clarity

Edited February 16, 2005 by Boh Bpen Yang

[chaladmak]

interesting. so, even half -blood is already not Thai ?

[Neeranam]

I understand that "man" "มัน " is also the indefinite pronoun "it" used in refering to animals or things. I have also been told by my wife that some people, especially pretend girlfriends sometimes use this in reference to their 'farang boyfriend'. She said it is an absolute declaration of disrespect.

Mun - 'they', also.

I OFTEN hear , "farang, mun ......."

Next time you hear it ask them to repeat what they just said, and I bet they won't.

I wonder why?

thai people are bloody disrespectful when talking about farang

End of story as far as I a concerned.

I try to ignore it mostly.

[Neeranam]

Farangs are often just 'foreigners.' My friends refer to me as a farang occasionally even though I am 100% Thai Chinese.

Really? Thai people calling a Chinese Thai, farang??????

Have you ever been called ,"jaek"? Is that considered an insult to you?

You are the first ever 100% Thai/Chinese/native English Speaker I have ever heard of. What on earth is 100% Thai/chinese? Would you consider yourself British or American or wherever the country you are native to?

[chaladmak]

Really? Thai people calling a Chinese Thai, farang??????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that is a real news for me ! I always heard that white skin caucasians called farangs...

[srisatch]

interesting. so, even half -blood is already not Thai ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh quite...hence the Sino-Thai 'dialogue'...My 'friend' told me that many of the signs in SipsongPanna are in Thai..not Chinese...you cannot, in my experience, get very far down the road of who, exactly, are the pure Thai/Tai...very touchy subject...bit of Chinese, bit of Lao, bit of Khmer, bit of Mon....I know that my girls will NEVER be 'True Thais' never mind they speak the language/sing the anthem...they do not 'look like' Thais...but then nor does their mother and that has caused her some agro.....

And every time a person who is not 100% Thai appears on the TV the tongues start wagging!!!!

Is why I say every one should read Thailand Mapped...about the 'Conquering Thais'

I think like all these things it has its good side...keeps Thailand independent and 'confident'..but bad sides, too, ...always risks drifting into nationalism and racism ...got to remember that there are plenty of people living here to whom Thai citizenship is not accorded because of 'ethnic' factors..and in amongst the tragedies of the tsunami the fact that some Chao Lay people do not 'speak Thai' has been an issue...

[sas_cars]

I heard a different story as to the origins of the word 'farang'.

So it goes that the first caucasion people to set foot in Thailand were Spanish and sailed here in boats some centurys ago, they came to conquer or take over some area's and obviously wern't recieved well by the Thai's and becuase of thier light skinned appearence were nick named ,Farang, after the Thai fruit becuase its white inside, I also heard that in the beggining it was used as a derogatory term, but that it just 'stuck' and now is not considered rude.

I can't remember where I heard this story, but I'm sure it was from a reliable source, anybody else hear this one???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just you girls.....................The guys were called Man Falang

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or potato head

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand that "man" "มัน " is also the indefinite pronoun "it" used in refering to animals or things. I have also been told by my wife that some people, especially pretend girlfriends sometimes use this in reference to their 'farang boyfriend'. She said it is an absolute declaration of disrespect.

She also tells me that to use farang as a pronoun is also disrespectful (compared to using the persons proper name or a proper pronoun for second or third person 'เขา or ท่าน').

From that view I would say that it would show disrespect in the sense that the word does not acknowledge a person as an individual but a member of a general class of people.

But in reference to westerners in general it is common and accepted. Just as Asian or Oriental are accepted as not insulting in English as a generalization of all things eastern.

Edited for clarity

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A well educated thai will never call a foreigner มัน mun.I think you are most likely to hear mun from low educated persons,BGs.etc.etc.