Thailand: Like The Usa In The 50s?

[ballpoint]

Ironic really, since the current Thai political system can be directly traced back to interference by 60's America in its attempts to bolster support for the Vietnam war.

[Huey]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the conservative 50s in the USA.

For those too young to remember, the dominant cultural ethos/pattern in the 50s in the USA was characterized (in large part) by extreme conservatism (in dress and thought), conformists ideology, xenophobia, and very bad music (e.g., How Much is that Doggy in the Window).

I see those same traits in Thailand today.......especially the music.......having to hear it is the equivalent of Chinese water torture......seeing it on TV is even worse.....like a bad nightmare or LSD trip in Las Vegas.

It was during the 50s that the country started becoming more liberal......and the boring music started to change to "rock and roll"........Elvis came on the scene......many others like Buddy Holly.

(Yes, I know the roots of rock and roll but no need to go there.)

Towards the end of the 50s, young people really started changing.........there was a rejection of conservatism.......liberal thought started to flourish.....music started becoming great......fashion changed.

By the early 60s, a full-fledged cultural revolution started to unfold........Dylan and Hendrix started to surface. Finally a total rejection of the past took place.......JFK, RFK, MLK.......some good politicians and activists took the stage.

Is Thailand passing through a similar historical phase?

Are young students waking up to the conservatism that is smothering their freedom of expression?

Will they eventually start their own "cultural revolution?"

Yer and Thaskin is Malcom X

Not in his wildest dreams... But anyway Thailand like USA in the 50's your kidding me right? Thailand is F'ing utopic in comparison. While I might end up getting over priced for going to the wrong resturant/public place, atleast I won't get Lynched for it.

[Jimjim]

The only similarities you will see are there because we are on planet Earth. Otherwise, you can't get too specific with it to make much of any real sense, other than that you want to compare and contrast because you have nothing better to do.

[Jimjim]

I think in some ways Thais are more advanced than Americans/Westerners. They are a lot more cynical about politics and democracy while 200 million Americans go ga ga over Obama like they've never been duped before.

Don't think so, regarding your first sentence. Eh, ever heard of Thaksin? Wildly popular when he first came to power and was viewed as a messiah by some. Just look at his red shirts many of whom still worship him to this day and feel he is the only person who cares about the poor and disadvantaged and zealously long for his second-coming in the clouds to create heaven on Earth in Thailand. He certainly "duped" a lot of people (not that I agree Obama has duped America, that's completely personal opinion) and when it became clear that he was largely self-serving (this is kind of lost on his hardcore support, they still think he actually cares about them and not his own power hungry self) and manipulated the government for his own gain, he came crashing down. Well, that and the old guard was tired of him.

[EndofDays]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the conservative 50s in the USA.

For those too young to remember, the dominant cultural ethos/pattern in the 50s in the USA was characterized (in large part) by extreme conservatism (in dress and thought), conformists ideology, xenophobia, and very bad music (e.g., How Much is that Doggy in the Window).

I see those same traits in Thailand today.......especially the music.......having to hear it is the equivalent of Chinese water torture......seeing it on TV is even worse.....like a bad nightmare or LSD trip in Las Vegas.

It was during the 50s that the country started becoming more liberal......and the boring music started to change to "rock and roll"........Elvis came on the scene......many others like Buddy Holly.

(Yes, I know the roots of rock and roll but no need to go there.)

Towards the end of the 50s, young people really started changing.........there was a rejection of conservatism.......liberal thought started to flourish.....music started becoming great......fashion changed.

By the early 60s, a full-fledged cultural revolution started to unfold........Dylan and Hendrix started to surface. Finally a total rejection of the past took place.......JFK, RFK, MLK.......some good politicians and activists took the stage.

Is Thailand passing through a similar historical phase?

Are young students waking up to the conservatism that is smothering their freedom of expression?

Will they eventually start their own "cultural revolution?"

Wow, a lot of my familiy members grew up in the 50's and they have fond memories. Then they could still be kids or teenages and grow-up without having to see the crap that is spewed at them daily from today's media. There was still honor and belief in doing the right thing. Sure, there were problems, a lot of them, but that generation after two wars is what made the U.S. the greates nation on earth (how dare he say that!!!!!) You could grow-up then. Are you telling me Sinatra was crap?

[EndofDays]

Some Ivy League iconoclast professor made the point that the Beatniks and Hippies were the final conservatives, who made the older folks realize their hypocrisy. I doubt that a Thai Bob Dylan has a ready audience here. Conservative forces have too much to lose. But hey, the Thai nephew just showed up with late-Lennon length long hair, so maybe there's hope...unless it's only a fashion statement.

Because University professors are wordly-wise is that it? We are much better off now, everyone is right, the world is in great shape with liberalism abashed.

[EndofDays]

Hmmmmmmmm, I remembe the 50s and I really don't see the similarities.

One example-ladyboys walking around openly and no one reacting or taking notice. No way that would have happened in the USA in the 50s, 555+

Well, I imagine that was because Uncle SAM was/is extremely homophobic whereas Thailand is fairly tolerant in the respect of a third gender. I think the paranoia over race can be paralled. The USA really didn't consider black Americans/immigrants of colour as equal and Thais don't view anyone Non-Thai as equal either. So there is at least one similarity.

Yes, the U.S. is homophobic, no gays allowed, yes that is it, right up there with Iran. Golly, I wish the U.S. was more like Europe.....

[Jimjim]

Wow, EndofDays, you're really fighting a battle there, aren't ya?

Just realize that any topic mentioning the U.S. seemingly at all will turn into some completely off-topic political BS cyber war. Pay it no mind.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Jimjim

[JR Texas]

Wow, EndofDays, you're really fighting a battle there, aren't ya?

Just realize that any topic mentioning the U.S. seemingly at all will turn into some completely off-topic political BS cyber war. Pay it no mind.

Thanks for the posts. With few exceptions, the posts were constructive and informative. I learned something.

What I don't know is if the young will eventually become free-thinking and radical........now they seem like puppets.

Anything can happen......and often does.

[ThaiPauly]

I liked "How much is that doggie in the window" by Patti Page. It was one of my favorites in '53.

You mean the one with the wagg-er-ley tail?

Is it still for sale?

[ubonjoe]

Deleted a few psots and replies tothem that were flames or almost flames.

[reenatinnakor]

Were there wife (or sex) seeking fat, old, balding, ugly men who looked like the banjo player from Deliverance in the USA in the 50's? Fat ugly fuc_ks who cant get laid in their own country so off course they go to a poorer and offer the poor girls a way out in exchange for sex? I havent googled it but I don't think there were things like that in the 50's USA! So that's the answer to this stupid question. No its not.

What's wrong with Thai music? I find it quite melodic. You don't go into any detail why its crap? Old people made me listen to all that Dylan and Hendrix <deleted> when I was young......and it was pretty <deleted>.

[RPCVguy]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the conservative 50s in the USA. ...

Towards the end of the 50s, young people really started changing.........there was a rejection of conservatism.......liberal thought started to flourish....By the early 60s, a full-fledged cultural revolution started to unfold........Dylan and Hendrix started to surface. Finally a total rejection of the past took place.......JFK, RFK, MLK.......some good politicians and activists took the stage.

Is Thailand passing through a similar historical phase?

Where I live and enjoy the pace of rural Thai life the general neighborliness does remind me of the 50's and early 60's. BUT the mass media of today reaches here and is certainly not from that era. The changes happening here in Thailand will not follow the patterns of the USA for many reasons. Here are two:

(1) There is not a "Vietnam War" and military draft to unite and radicalize the youth and

(2) Just like cell phones did not wait to replace landlines, media access allow cultural shifts to leapfrog generations - there is more of a global youth culture than ever before.

What will cause changes in the future will be the consequences of global climate change on agriculture and water... and a growing world population facing ever reduced resources as the easiest mines and wells loose productivity. Several generations of rampant consumerism will require future generations to pay the piper. Not so much for me to worry about, but plenty to handle for my adopted kids and grand kids to deal with.

Teaching youth to be problem solvers is what is most needed, but at odds with the hierarchical control issues of many societies.

... and its always harder for even good teachers to succeed when the media makes lazy and brutish ideas look successful.

[JR Texas]

Were there wife (or sex) seeking fat, old, balding, ugly men who looked like the banjo player from Deliverance in the USA in the 50's? Fat ugly fuc_ks who cant get laid in their own country so off course they go to a poorer and offer the poor girls a way out in exchange for sex? I havent googled it but I don't think there were things like that in the 50's USA! So that's the answer to this stupid question. No its not.

What's wrong with Thai music? I find it quite melodic. You don't go into any detail why its crap? Old people made me listen to all that Dylan and Hendrix <deleted> when I was young......and it was pretty <deleted>.

The post by Reenatinnakor has to be the funniest post thus far.......moderator, please do not delete it as it stands as a monument to something.

And then it was followed by a great post by RPCVGuy.......interesting stuff there.

[HagenvonTronje]

>>

EnhancePlus, in 1992 popular uprising led to downfall of a coup maker who didn't want to relinquish power. It was led by the same people who led PAD protests for the past couple of years. This time they got rid of Thaksin - another victory for the people.

???

total nonsense.

just look who was leading the camouflage government after the 2006 coup and what General Surayud Chulanont had done in 1992.

or just ask who was a appointed minister of the junta government in 1991 and what makes his son Mark M 16 now.

Edited June 21, 2009 by HagenvonTronje

[slim]

50's was a bit before my time, but i can't really imagine it anything like Thailand now!

anyhow, about Thai music, i think Thai pop music is pretty good, certainly infinitely better than all that Rap and R&B crap in the US and UK. i love chunladaa takaten, great songs and beautiful girl, and many other Thai pop artists. i also like some of the more traditional Thai artists like Tai Oratai. at least Thai songs have good melodies and are quite catchy

steve

You deeply deeply sad person. Its a pity you're not being ironic then I'd laugh, as it is I weep.

[ballpoint]

???

total nonsense.

just look who was leading the camouflage government after the 2006 coup and what General Surayud Chulanont had done in 1992.

or just ask who was a appointed minister of the junta government in 1991 and what makes his son Mark M 16 now.

Any reply to your rubbish would only take this even further off topic, it's all been debated before on numerous threads. Suffice it to say, the military, and the yellow shirts, did Thailand an enormous favour by getting rid of Thaksin.

While there may be a few similarities between 1950's America and 2000's Thailand, the differences are far more numerous. You might as well say that 1950's America can be compared with present day Saudi Arabia. A conservative, intolerant, religious ruling class trying to impose its views on its own people, and the rest of the world. An abundance of large, gas guzzling cars. Crap music... You could also say that present day America, during the Bush years, had its similarities with 1950's America, for those same reasons.

[maccaroni man]

Hmmmmmmmm, I remembe the 50s and I really don't see the similarities.

One example-ladyboys walking around openly and no one reacting or taking notice. No way that would have happened in the USA in the 50s, 555+

Well, I imagine that was because Uncle SAM was/is extremely homophobic whereas Thailand is fairly tolerant in the respect of a third gender. I think the paranoia over race can be paralled. The USA really didn't consider black Americans/immigrants of colour as equal and Thais don't view anyone Non-Thai as equal either. So there is at least one similarity.

Yes, the U.S. is homophobic, no gays allowed, yes that is it, right up there with Iran.

Golly, I wish the U.S. was more like Europe.....

the USA is full of Europeans that are thankful that it is not

[mahtin]

50's was a bit before my time, but i can't really imagine it anything like Thailand now!

anyhow, about Thai music, i think Thai pop music is pretty good, certainly infinitely better than all that Rap and R&B crap in the US and UK. i love chunladaa takaten, great songs and beautiful girl, and many other Thai pop artists. i also like some of the more traditional Thai artists like Tai Oratai. at least Thai songs have good melodies and are quite catchy

steve

You deeply deeply sad person. Its a pity you're not being ironic then I'd laugh, as it is I weep.

R&B???

In 1951, Little Richard Penniman began recording for RCA Records in the jump blues style of late 1940s Joe Brown and Billy Wright. However, it wasn't until he prepared a demo in 1954, that caught the attention of Specialty Records, that the world would start to hear his new, uptempo, funky rhythm and blues that would catapult him to fame in 1955 and help define the sound of rock 'n' roll. A rapid succession of rhythm and blues hits followed, beginning with "Tutti Frutti" and "Long Tall Sally", which would influence performers such as James Brown, Elvis Presley, and Otis Redding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

[ballpoint]

50's was a bit before my time, but i can't really imagine it anything like Thailand now!

anyhow, about Thai music, i think Thai pop music is pretty good, certainly infinitely better than all that Rap and R&B crap in the US and UK. i love chunladaa takaten, great songs and beautiful girl, and many other Thai pop artists. i also like some of the more traditional Thai artists like Tai Oratai. at least Thai songs have good melodies and are quite catchy

steve

You deeply deeply sad person. Its a pity you're not being ironic then I'd laugh, as it is I weep.

R&B???

In 1951, Little Richard Penniman began recording for RCA Records in the jump blues style of late 1940s Joe Brown and Billy Wright. However, it wasn't until he prepared a demo in 1954, that caught the attention of Specialty Records, that the world would start to hear his new, uptempo, funky rhythm and blues that would catapult him to fame in 1955 and help define the sound of rock 'n' roll. A rapid succession of rhythm and blues hits followed, beginning with "Tutti Frutti" and "Long Tall Sally", which would influence performers such as James Brown, Elvis Presley, and Otis Redding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

Yeah yeah, and all modern music is influenced by some monkey banging a stick on a rock a few million years ago. Doesn't mean I particularly want to listen to Neanderthal and the Swinging Cavemen's greatest hits though.

[tutone]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the conservative 50s in the USA.

For those too young to remember, the dominant cultural ethos/pattern in the 50s in the USA was characterized (in large part) by extreme conservatism (in dress and thought), conformists ideology, xenophobia, and very bad music (e.g., How Much is that Doggy in the Window).

I see those same traits in Thailand today.......especially the music.......having to hear it is the equivalent of Chinese water torture......seeing it on TV is even worse.....like a bad nightmare or LSD trip in Las Vegas.

It was during the 50s that the country started becoming more liberal......and the boring music started to change to "rock and roll"........Elvis came on the scene......many others like Buddy Holly.

(Yes, I know the roots of rock and roll but no need to go there.)

Towards the end of the 50s, young people really started changing.........there was a rejection of conservatism.......liberal thought started to flourish.....music started becoming great......fashion changed.

By the early 60s, a full-fledged cultural revolution started to unfold........Dylan and Hendrix started to surface. Finally a total rejection of the past took place.......JFK, RFK, MLK.......some good politicians and activists took the stage.

Is Thailand passing through a similar historical phase?

Are young students waking up to the conservatism that is smothering their freedom of expression?

Will they eventually start their own "cultural revolution?"

Are you stoned?

[mahtin]

Yeah yeah, and all modern music is influenced by some monkey banging a stick on a rock a few million years ago.

I'd like to meet that monkey and shake his hand.

[lannarebirth]

The 'social revolution' has already started. Take the issue of young women wearing skimpy shorts (I love them). 10 years ago especially in rural areas where I live the wearing of such apparel was taboo, and although still frowned on by the older generation has become the norm.

We can of course thank television and the internet, and as time goes by we will see more and more 'liberal' changes. This will of course eventually permeate into all aspects of society, politics, religion etc. Whether this will be for the better remains to be seen..

One shouldn't confuse liberalism with libertine.

Already some very good posts here.......please continue.

I was just at a local university and there were signs plastered all over the place warning "girls" to stop wearing skirts that are "provocative and tight." Personally, I like what they are doing The girls, that is.

Jumnien said something interesting about American politics and how there really is no choice between democrats and republicans........but the idea that Thais are any better is up for debate.

Reds vs yellows.........no real choice........the ruling elites win either way. Corruption.......I think part of the rejection by the youth is America was about corruption at all levels.

The main thing is that the right questions were starting to be asked........are they being asked in Thailand? Is there a Bob Dylan in Thailand who is causing the youth to THINK about something other than surface issues?

I wonder what Lannarebirth meant by "something else" will perhaps happen.

I don't consider short pants as making much headway personally.

The fact is, Thailand and the rest of Asia never experienced an Age Of Enlightenment. It was during this period most western nations began to make the change toward self rule, greater personal liberty and reason. Monarchs and churches began to lose their stranglehold on the populace. They just have zero context for any of that here. I'm not sure what will change that. General prosperity could I suppose, but then you're still stuck with the hierarchal society which is the REAL roadblock to any long term advancement here. Thais love that structure and will not change it willingly IMO.

As for your Dylan comments, he was not counterculture at all, but was enbraced by them to his chagrin. He was a moralist (in the Roman tradition) and a patriot. He despised hypocrisy and unjustness in a country that purported to be egalitarian and virtuous. Thailand makes no such claims.

[HagenvonTronje]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the ...

what i think about it - just a post that is born of an US of A centred mindset. that want to tell us what a great nation the US of A is and how well they have done in the 60ies. mostly about to massage the own ego. and now this average american think it's time that thailand should do the same.

and the crap you can see on TV? that is pretty much the same shit you have everywhere around the world.

but whats wrong with the thai music? or what is wrong with a LSD trip? wasn't that americas sixties? salute to timothy leary. have you ever heard of him?

if there is some similarity between these countries, than is it the ego centred, the own nation loving obsession. but in thailand they don't go out and try to install their concept in other nations.

[JR Texas]

The more I think about it, the more Thailand is starting to feel like the ...

what i think about it - just a post that is born of an US of A centred mindset. that want to tell us what a great nation the US of A is and how well they have done in the 60ies. mostly about to massage the own ego. and now this average american think it's time that thailand should do the same.

and the crap you can see on TV? that is pretty much the same shit you have everywhere around the world.

but whats wrong with the thai music? or what is wrong with a LSD trip? wasn't that americas sixties? salute to timothy leary. have you ever heard of him?

if there is some similarity between these countries, than is it the ego centred, the own nation loving obsession. but in thailand they don't go out and try to install their concept in other nations.

Lots of interesting posts......some, I think, misunderstood why I posted the topic.

It had nothing to do with nationalistic pride. It was simply an attempt to get people to think about a possible historical comparison.......50s USA, and present-day Thailand.

About music.......I dislike the music in Thailand......conventional, mindless, boring music like Doris Day in the 50s in America.

I also dislike the music in contemporary America. Oddly, Crap (aka. Rap) is also, conventional, mindless, and boring like Doris Day. I see both as nothing but pap for the masses.

The music in the USA during the late 50s and certainly moving into the 60s was fantastic........it paralleled a massive social revolution........minds that were formerly chained by conventional society opened up......it was an explosion of creativity.

That time has long since gone in America........in fact, America has now turned into something similar to what it was in the 50s......extremely conservative, walk-the-line and dare not think any original thoughts......along with the Doris Day music of the time: Crap (aka. Rap).

America might be setting itself up for another 60s like revolution to come..........who knows........different topic.

What I am most interested in, with regard to Thailand, is how long the young will allow the current system to exploit them and keep them in a self-exploitative mindset.

Youth do respond to role models. Those roles models are often musicians and actors.......sometimes politicians (e.g., JFK, RFK, MLK in the USA)

Dylan was a role model for America's revolution (yes, one poster pointed out he never saw himself as a role model and did not want to play that role......but others did see him that way and called him the "voice of a generation").

Now, it seems Thailand's youth have no role models like Dylan. It will be interesting, at least to me, to see if a social revolution led by youth and a "Dylan type" surfaces. Is there one politician that might join them........doubt it.

The 50s in America were also characterized by the solidification of the corporate-political-military triangle of power.

In fact, our most famous modern general was the president of the USA for most of the 50s--Eisenhower (Ironically, he was one of the first persons to warn us about the "military-industrial complex" as he called it.)

Is the military powerful in Thailand........very, much like it was in America in the 50s and 60s.

But Thailand does not have a Vietnam War to wake people up.

Of course, in Thailand's past, some youth tried to start a "revolution" and were slaughtered for it (in the 70s and again in the 90s.). [same thing happened in China, of course.]

One major difference between the USA in the 50s and Thailand now is that the 50s in the USA were a time of great prosperity........that is not the case in Thailand as its economy is declining.

[oldsparrow]

IMHO,

It is far from the point if you guys foreigners mainly use the change you witness DURING your stay here in the analysis of Thai social dynamic..

Comparison of the PRESENT existance in CERTAIN aspect ONE BY ONE can be more practical.

[Bagwan]

Hmmmmmmmm, I remembe the 50s and I really don't see the similarities.

One example-ladyboys walking around openly and no one reacting or taking notice. No way that would have happened in the USA in the 50s, 555+

I first visited the US in 1953 when I was serving in the America and West Indies Squadron based in Bermuda. We went to Boston, Portland MN, Bar Harbour, St. Johns, Argentia, Gaspe, Quebec and then down again to Newport RI, New York and Houston. We also sorted out a Argentinian frigate that had been nosing around the Falkand Islands and South Georgia.

When I returned home I was asked what the US was like. I said it was a matriarchal society and there were homosexuals every way that you turned, but the people were extremely friendly towards us and overwhelmingly generous. I was singled out being a baby faced 17 year old at the time and sporting ribbons of medals awarded during a brief period of service in the Korean War which made me some sort of hero in many US eyes. After several visits since I no longer hold that the first two views hold water although I still have little or no regard for US ladies - UK ones either come to that.

[Plus]

I think in some ways Thais are more advanced than Americans/Westerners. They are a lot more cynical about politics and democracy while 200 million Americans go ga ga over Obama like they've never been duped before.

Don't think so, regarding your first sentence. Eh, ever heard of Thaksin?

Oh, Thaksin...

Even in present day America no one can fool the people like he did, forget the 50s.

As for Obama - let's wait and see, I'm a bit sceptical about his ability to change anything, even if he is sincere. Just like Abhisit here - too good for the general electorate and too inconvenient for the usual power players.

[toptuan]

I liked "How much is that doggie in the window" by Patti Page. It was one of my favorites in '53.

I grew up during the 50's. I liked it. Guess that's why I like Thailand.

Oh, and the 50's song that touched my life deeply was the "One-Eyed, One-Horned Flying Purple People-Eater." (Just a notch above "Ahab the Arab" and ALL the Chipmunks' songs!)

[Bagwan]

If there is a Bing Crosby resurrection/revival then I shall start Googling euthenasia. The supermarkets have stopped blasting out 'White Christmas' from mid September onwards and replaced it with 'I saw Mummy kissing Santa Claus'. Out of the frying pan into the fire I'm thinking. 'I saw Mummy giving Santa Claus a BJ' would be more contemporary.