Not Sure If I Have A Drinking Problem- Some Advice Needed

[rexall]

The answer as to whether one is an alcoholic or not is actually very simple, and doesn't really depend on the quantity of alcohol one imbibes. It is more a question of the free will one is able to exercise over one's drinking habits. <a bunch of other good stuff snipped>

Thu 25 Jun 09, 1:06 pm

Well said, Mobi. However, I think it is even more basic than what you said. "Social drinkers" do not hangout on forums like this to discuss their drinking! It's a non-issue for them. They don't think about stopping, they don't think about cutting down, and they don't wrestle with the merits of drinking, either in their own minds nor in public debates. They enjoy their couple of drinks. They can take it or leave it, and that's the end of it for them.

An organization which I am NOT a fan of, but sort of grudgingly admit that it exists and may serve a purpose for "some" drunks who will not or "cannot" stop drinking and using, is Moderation Management (MM) which exists for the purpose of helping and supporting those who want to (learn to) drink "moderately."

The point I wish to make a MM and similar organizations and approaches is how virtually all of them define "moderation." It is usually somewhat of a complicated formula, and I may not be quoting MM accurately, but I am not off by much. "Moderation" is something like 12 drinks per week, with no more than four drinks on any given day. Or something very close to that.

It is fascinating and tragic to me how many alcoholics will literally risk their lives for two lousy drinks per day, or one "binge" of four drinks during a week. I, personally, NEVER drank socially or moderately or in a controlled way, at least nothing like the MM definition. I never wanted two lousy drinks. Two drinks was an insult! From the time I began experimenting with alcohol and drugs as a teenager, I drank for the drug effect, I drank to feel the buzz, to feel the euphoria. A glass of wine with dinner was a joke! It was two drinks before dinner, a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, and a couple more Drambuie and coffee for desert . . . and then out for an evening of drinking! That was hip, slick, cool! That was sophisticated! That was living! As an aside, that was only one of my patterns of drinking and using; it depends upon which decade you are referring to, but it is plenty enough to make my point. Of course, in those days, none of us realized that that was really just alcoholism, plain and simple, like a pig dressed up in a fancy part dress! The culture was as ignorant as we were and supported and advocated for this image incessantly. I guess things are pretty much the same these days, but I am very out of the loop on that.

Excuse me for being so brash, but I'll just say it out loud in front of Gawd and everybody, if you are posting on a forum such as this to speculate about your drinking, you very well may have a tiger by the tail, and hear a lot more than you bargained for. However, the good news is that by raising the issue, you may just have taken the first step to avoiding a world of misery and tragedy in your life. Good luck!

Aloha,

Rex

[Sean606]

I'm gonna break the trend here and say to me it doesn't sound like you have much of a problem. You seem sensible and it doesn't sound like alchohol is interfering with your life. I think 5 beers however might be a little extreme to be drinking regularly. 2 or 3 i think is ok and if you are fully functioning on that amount the next morning, my advice is stop worrying so much. I've met too many fitness freaks who never touched a drop and fell down dead in their prime to believe there's any guarantee for any of us. Yes you may increase the odds of a longer life, but then you could get struck down by the number 93 tomorrow morning.

Take care of yourself of course, but don't waste too much of your life fretting about what might or might not happen. There are too many variables out of our control.

Please listen to Rixalex

I am attaching a URL to some recent studies. If I told you there was a miracle food that would give you 30% better chance to live out everyday of your life and wake up the next morning would you take it? You know what the miracle food is?? 1-3 drinks of alcohol a day !!!!!

h t t p ://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509903,00.html

h t t p ://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090319161456.htm

h t t p ://www.mothernature.com/Library/bookshelf/Books/12/10.cfm

Before we all try to give each other advise lets all take a step back. The internet has given us all the ability to overstep are boundaries as friends. Remember what your mother and father taught you(hopefully) "Stay out of peoples business".

The only thing I will say is all of us should use the internet to educate ourselves and others. Many on this board have given their advise without backing up their opinion with scientific evidence. I have posted some URL links. Please do not listen to "DO GOODERS". If you ate popcorn everynight before you went to bed, and then did not eat popcorn one night you would probably have a difficult time falling asleep. Would we label you a popcornholic!!!

Enjoy life!!

If that means no drinks. Don't drink!

If that means 2 drinks have 2 drinks!

If that means 2-3 drinks and then the occasional 5-10 drink laugh feast with friends Have fun

Remember most of the people who replied never ask you if you enjoyed your routine. Most "preachers" see alcohol as evil, and clean living as heavenly. These people never really cared about your well being. They wanted to "preach".

Remember whatever you decide to do enjoy yourself, and be good to yourself and others.

If you are still in Thailand when I come over in September I will buy you a drink!!!water, beer, or coca cola your choice(i will be drinking beer )

[nigelandjan]

I'm gonna break the trend here and say to me it doesn't sound like you have much of a problem. You seem sensible and it doesn't sound like alchohol is interfering with your life. I think 5 beers however might be a little extreme to be drinking regularly. 2 or 3 i think is ok and if you are fully functioning on that amount the next morning, my advice is stop worrying so much. I've met too many fitness freaks who never touched a drop and fell down dead in their prime to believe there's any guarantee for any of us. Yes you may increase the odds of a longer life, but then you could get struck down by the number 93 tomorrow morning.

Take care of yourself of course, but don't waste too much of your life fretting about what might or might not happen. There are too many variables out of our control.

Please listen to Rixalex

I am attaching a URL to some recent studies. If I told you there was a miracle food that would give you 30% better chance to live out everyday of your life and wake up the next morning would you take it? You know what the miracle food is?? 1-3 drinks of alcohol a day !!!!!

h t t p ://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509903,00.html

h t t p ://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090319161456.htm

h t t p ://www.mothernature.com/Library/bookshelf/Books/12/10.cfm

Before we all try to give each other advise lets all take a step back. The internet has given us all the ability to overstep are boundaries as friends. Remember what your mother and father taught you(hopefully) "Stay out of peoples business".

The only thing I will say is all of us should use the internet to educate ourselves and others. Many on this board have given their advise without backing up their opinion with scientific evidence. I have posted some URL links. Please do not listen to "DO GOODERS". If you ate popcorn everynight before you went to bed, and then did not eat popcorn one night you would probably have a difficult time falling asleep. Would we label you a popcornholic!!!

Enjoy life!!

If that means no drinks. Don't drink!

If that means 2 drinks have 2 drinks!

If that means 2-3 drinks and then the occasional 5-10 drink laugh feast with friends Have fun

Remember most of the people who replied never ask you if you enjoyed your routine. Most "preachers" see alcohol as evil, and clean living as heavenly. These people never really cared about your well being. They wanted to "preach".

Remember whatever you decide to do enjoy yourself, and be good to yourself and others.

If you are still in Thailand when I come over in September I will buy you a drink!!!water, beer, or coca cola your choice(i will be drinking beer )

Excuse me if this is not a case of the pot and the kettle I dont know much ,,who are YOU now preaching to ?? and from what posts I have read on here they have been most helpfull to the guy I dont remember anyone preaching,,,,,no one is saying to people to not touch alchohol ,, I think the advice is aimed at the weak willed that cannot have a drink without the drink controlling them .

I would like to remind you that alchohol itself is a poison and we are lucky enough to have an organ in our bodies called the liver to clean the crap out the system,, how can you agree with anyone enjoying a routine that is slowly killing them is beyond me.

You are trying to justify your weakness by posting this suggesting to the guy what he is doing to himself is ok ( go on have another drink it will be ok and phuket !!!

Perhaps you would like to explain to my younger brother its ok to carry on like this as he does ,, having gone from a well off good looking bloke with a good circle of friends , to someone that looks like a hobo on the street ,, ailienated himself from all his friends one by one , and now is awaiting trial on a serious related alchohol related crime which carries a prison sentance , he has allready been told .

If I am one of those you are offering a drink to in September I am sorry I cannot take you up on it as we will not be returning this year , BUT if I was I would have A beer with you mabe 1 mabe 2 then it would be cola for me thanks. What you drink is up to you and of no interest to me ,, but the OP was asking for advice about recognising his problem.

[rexall]

<snip>

I am attaching a URL to some recent studies. If I told you there was a miracle food that would give you 30% better chance to live out everyday of your life and wake up the next morning would you take it? You know what the miracle food is?? 1-3 drinks of alcohol a day !!!!!

Fri 26 Jun 09, 6:39 am

Suppose your doctor told offered you a "miracle drug" which give you a 30% better chance to live out everyday of your life and wake up the next morning. The only catch was that at least 10% (possibly as high as 20%) of the people who use it cannot help using it to excess, become addicted, have dysfunctional, broken, lives, often dying prematurely of liver,heart, and other alcohol-related diseases meanwhile, breaking the hearts of their loved ones. Would you take it?

It is highly unlikely that if alcohol were a new drug that the FDA would approve it, and if they did, it would be on the controlled substances list like valium.

Arguments touting the (supposed) "health benefits" of alcohol and other recreational drugs have NO RELEVANCE to alcoholics. None whatsoever! Alcoholics need to find other ways of increasing longevity and enhancing health other than by drinking and taking drugs, because, for alcoholics, the tragic consequences of drinking will, sooner or later, outweigh any benefits.

Aloha,

Rex

[YORKSHIREPUD]

Suppose your doctor told offered you a "miracle drug" which give you a 30% better chance to live out everyday of your life and wake up the next morning. The only catch was that at least 10% (possibly as high as 20%) of the people who use it cannot help using it to excess, become addicted, have dysfunctional, broken, lives, often dying prematurely of liver,heart, and other alcohol-related diseases meanwhile, breaking the hearts of their loved ones. Would you take it?

It is highly unlikely that if alcohol were a new drug that the FDA would approve it, and if they did, it would be on the controlled substances list like valium.

Arguments touting the (supposed) "health benefits" of alcohol and other recreational drugs have NO RELEVANCE to alcoholics. None whatsoever! Alcoholics need to find other ways of increasing longevity and enhancing health other than by drinking and taking drugs, because, for alcoholics, the tragic consequences of drinking will, sooner or later, outweigh any benefits.

Aloha,

I'm an old, time served soldier, I played semi professional Rugby and I've been a drinker of beer all my life,I have beer in my fridge for the odd guest but NEVER have one myself in the house, If I don't go out at night, I may have a few Bloody Marys OR a few shots of Irish Bushmills after midnight to help me sleep. Did I mention that I'm 68 years old and I look forward to going out and having a beer or twelve with my friends and .

Lucky, you don't have a drink problem mate, IF YOU DO? I'VE NO CHANCE

Rex

[BigSnake]

Sound as if you could very well be on your way to a drinking problem, now you have already taken the first right step(here) by asking the question, so may I suggest try changing your ROUTINE for a few days, i.e., a cup of milk, OJ, COKE or just plan old water in place of the Leo. You might want to call or have a NON-Alcohol drinker to chat with in a little change to your routine, this will fill pass the time and this non drinker is not going to suggest having a drink. Maybe worthy of a try for a day or so>Bottom try another way to relax and spend your time, drinking is a fake way, help to sleep/relax in the short term, but can lead to some serious Health issues(Liver/kidney damage)in long term. I have lost three great friends to Alcohol Anyway, sorry don't mean to Rant, just wish you the best of luck.

[rexall]

<snip>

I'm an old, time served soldier, I played semi professional Rugby and I've been a drinker of beer all my life,I have beer in my fridge for the odd guest but NEVER have one myself in the house, If I don't go out at night, I may have a few Bloody Marys OR a few shots of Irish Bushmills after midnight to help me sleep. Did I mention that I'm 68 years old and I look forward to going out and having a beer or twelve with my friends and .

Lucky, you don't have a drink problem mate, IF YOU DO? I'VE NO CHANCE

First of all, if you are happy with your lifestyle and your "drinking style", it's none of my business. But if that is the case, what are you doing hanging out on the "I Drink Too Much Forum" ??? Trying to save people from making the awful mistake of choosing sobriety if the they don't need to? What a totally tragic life, to deny oneself the endless benefits of this WONDERFUL drug, alcohol. What a dull, barren awful world it would be if more people stopped drinking!

Secondly, I don't get "Lucky, you don't have drink problem mate..." I most certainly do have a "drink problem!" am a recovered alcoholic. Why else would I be posting here?

Aloha,

Rex

[Sheryl]

YORKSHIREPUD,

First of all, if you are happy with your lifestyle and your "drinking style", it's none of my business. But if that is the case, what are you doing hanging out on the "I Drink Too Much Forum" ??? Trying to save people from making the awful mistake of choosing sobriety if the they don't need to? What a totally tragic life, to deny oneself the endless benefits of this WONDERFUL drug, alcohol. What a dull, barren awful world it would be if more people stopped drinking!

Secondly, I don't get "Lucky, you don't have drink problem mate..." I most certainly do have a "drink problem!" am a recovered alcoholic. Why else would I be posting here?

Aloha,

Rex

Rex, I think the "Lucky" phrase was addrsessing ther OP whose nic is Lucky. Yorkshiore is saying that the OP does not have a drinking problem.

Yorkshirepud, as several other posters have already eloquently explained, the quantity someone drinks is not a criteria for dteremining whether someone is an alcoholic/has a drinking problem. It is the inability to control one's drinking, regardless of amount, i.e. an element of compulsion.

In my experience people who post asking if they have a drinking problem alreadty know the answer; they are seeking encouragement to take the next step and get help. And people who don't have a problem seldom start threads in forums like this.

[rixalex]

In my experience people who post asking if they have a drinking problem alreadty know the answer; they are seeking encouragement to take the next step and get help. And people who don't have a problem seldom start threads in forums like this.

I'm sure Sheryl you are right that most people who need to ask the question, already know the answer. But most is however not all. I sense that merely the fact that the OP has asked the question, some people, a lot of whom have confessed to having had alcohol related problems themself, have rushed to hasty conclusions. Perhaps because they have been burnt themselves, they naturally feel concerned at anything that could be a sign. And drinking every day certainly could be a sign of things to come. On the other hand, there are no doubt many drinkers around the world with the same sort of habits who are able to keep their drinking within their control and who live normal, happy and reasonaly healthy lives. Could they be healthier? Well all of us are probably doing some harm to our bodies - whether it be too much alcohol, too much sugar, too much salt, not enough exercise etc etc. But within reason, this is what living is all about. We do things that may harm us but we make that choice consciously in the knowledge that were we to treat our bodies like temples the entire time, yes we might squeeze in a few extra years but at the cost of living less colourful lives. Worth it? For me, "no".

[rexall]

<snip> yes we might squeeze in a few extra years but at the cost of living less colourful lives. Worth it? For me, "no".

Alcoholism (actually "alcoholisms" is probably more accurate) is a morbid condition ("disease" if you like, or if that word is disturbing, "syndrome" or "pattern" or "process" will do) that has very serious consequences for the individual alcoholic, and unfortunately for his/her loved ones and often innocent bystanders as well.

The premise here is that the "good life" necessitates using alcohol and drugs, so much so that one will continue to drink even if that costs one a few measly years. That is an absurd statement! However absurd, is is a positively dangerous one for any alcoholic to be ruminating over. Alcoholics, if they hope to have any quality of life over the longer term had better abstain. Everybody else can do whatever the hel_l her or she wants . . . and hopefully your shortened life span will not be preceded by a year or two of pancreatitis, liver cancer or renal failure.

Aloha,

Rex

Edited June 26, 2009 by rexall

[torrenova]

Mobi touched on what I coinsider to be a very fair point and that is the ability to have a few and then stop. Some can, some cannot and others don't see the point of having a few if you are not going to complete the drinking process, which is to get drunk. Fine if you are a student and you can rationalise that getting half pissed is a waste of money and continuing to drink until drunk actually makes good economic sense as you have already blown the cash on half drunk so far.

I don't think that having a couple of beers a day is anywhere near being an alcoholic and neither is getting drunk on occasion but not being able to stop once started or even deliberately avoiding starting because you know you cannot stop is alcoholism, whether one realises it or not.

[rexall]

Mobi touched on what I coinsider to be a very fair point and that is the ability to have a few and then stop. Some can, some cannot and others don't see the point of having a few if you are not going to complete the drinking process, which is to get drunk. Fine if you are a student and you can rationalise that getting half pissed is a waste of money and continuing to drink until drunk actually makes good economic sense as you have already blown the cash on half drunk so far.

I don't think that having a couple of beers a day is anywhere near being an alcoholic and neither is getting drunk on occasion but not being able to stop once started or even deliberately avoiding starting because you know you cannot stop is alcoholism, whether one realises it or not.

Sat 27 Jun 09, 9:15 am

Sorry, to be a broken record, but nobody who has "a couple of beers a day" has any need or interest to post on a forum such as this, or spend any time at all worrying about it. The problem is that "two beers" is a cliché, and often a euphemism or code for something else.

The other issue--and I am not sure how directly this directly relates to alcoholism or not--is the underling premise (from several OPs here) that while "two beers" may not represent a "drinking problem" it is nonetheless necessary to enjoy a quality of life (Even if it shotens one's life by a few measly years!!!) In my opinion, if that thinking does not represent an alcohol/drug problem, it could certainly be the precursor to one. And it certainlydoes reflect warped and corrupt cultural values. True "social drinkers" have their two beers, and they really can, literally and figuratively "take it or leave it." Whether it is alcoholism or not, or even a "drinking problem", I don't know, but I respectfully question the rationality of the premise that there can be no quality of life without two beers a day.

Aloha,

Rex

[rixalex]

I respectfully question the rationality of the premise that there can be no quality of life without two beers a day.

That wasn't the premise whatsoever. The premise was that for most of us it's about striking a balance between taking care of our bodies and our health whilst at the same time not living regemented lives with no allowance for any vices or naughty pleasures at all.

It's not necessary for us all to live the same way. If you think your quality of life is improved without alcohol then obviously don't drink. If you enjoy drinking alcohol and can do so with control and moderation, then go ahead and drink. Live life to the full whatever that means for you and don't be too hasty to judge people who chose a different path.

[rexall]

I respectfully question the rationality of the premise that there can be no quality of life without two beers a day.

That wasn't the premise whatsoever. The premise was that for most of us it's about striking a balance between taking care of our bodies and our health whilst at the same time not living regemented lives with no allowance for any vices or naughty pleasures at all.

I don't see how abstaining from alcohol equates to living a "regimented life." Still, that's not the side of the street that I work, and it is essentially none of my business. Anyone and everyone is, of course, free to do whatever he or she likes. To alcoholics, however, your advice is tantamount to egging them on to drink the "lime cool aide." If alcoholics (or problem drinkers, or however we prefer to refer to ourselves) hope for some quality of life, life-long abstinence is the safest, surest and most effective method.

If you, personally, feel that your life would not be severely effected by the absence of alcohol and drugs, the the issue is of course moot.

Aloha,

Rex

[rixalex]

To alcoholics, however, your advice is tantamount to egging them on to drink the "lime cool aide."

I wasn't advising alcoholics. I said, "if you enjoy drinking alcohol and can do so with control and moderation, then go ahead and drink".

I think lack of control and ability to moderate are two of the primary characteristics of an alcoholic - go ahead and drink therefore does not apply to them.

[rexall]

<snip>

I think lack of control and ability to moderate are two of the primary characteristics of an alcoholic - go ahead and drink therefore does not apply to them.

That is sound advice!

Aloha,

Rex

[Sheryl]

Remember what forum this is. it is the "I drink too Much Forum". Designed specifically to give support to people who feel they have an alcohol problem.

As such it is not a suitable place to debate the pros and cons of alcohol per se. If you want to debate that, do it in a general forum.

When someone deliberately selects this forum to ask whether or not they have a drinking problem, they either (a) are trolling or ( know/suspect that they do and are seeking help.

A "normal" social drinker is not going to make such a post in this forum.

And those who consider themselves to be "normal" social drinkers should not be posting here unless they have a sincere interest in helping those with alcohol problems succeed in stopping or reducing their drinking and some relevant experience or expertiser to offer.

[SICA]

WOW! Some people! High horses and soap boxes a plenty about this one!

Just a couple of thoughts after reading the very interesting and highly amusing comments, if nobody minds.

When does 'social drinking' become a 'drinking problem'?

How much intake is considered 'Binge Drinking'?

I would consider myself a 'Binge' drinker because when i go out to drink beer, i usually go home very drunk and have little or no idea of how much i drank or how i got home. I do this about once a month and i do it because i enjoy it. I don't drink at home, i don't have alcohol in the house. Not because i am worried about drinking but when i drink i like to do it socially with friends or if there is a big sporting even on the TV.

I also believe that your diet and excersize has a big impact on how the body reacts to alcohol consumption. Eat healthily and do regular excersize. I suffer very few hangovers and i believe this is due to being fit and healthy because i cannot think of another reason.

I used to drink a lot, many all day sessions but have now cut that right out and instead go to the gym more.

Seriously, i believe it is up to the individual. Everybody know's inside themselves if they have a problem with alcohol, you really don't need to ask others. I was worried i was drinking too much so stopped. Simple as that! Yeah, too much alchol will kill you over time, simple fact and everybody know's it. Same as cigarettes are killing me. I am a cigarette addict and i know it. I hope i will have the strength to stop one day but right now i haven't got that strength. i do what i enjoy doing.

Not preaching, never would or want to, just thought i'd add my two baht's worth from my own personal experience.

Have fun and keep smiling.

[rexall]

WOW! Some people! High horses and soap boxes a plenty about this one!

Just a couple of thoughts after reading the very interesting and highly amusing comments, if nobody minds.

When does 'social drinking' become a 'drinking problem'?

How much intake is considered 'Binge Drinking'?

I would consider myself a 'Binge' drinker because when i go out to drink beer, i usually go home very drunk and have little or no idea of how much i drank or how i got home. I do this about once a month and i do it because i enjoy it. I don't drink at home, i don't have alcohol in the house. Not because i am worried about drinking but when i drink i like to do it socially with friends or if there is a big sporting even on the TV.

I also believe that your diet and excersize has a big impact on how the body reacts to alcohol consumption. Eat healthily and do regular excersize. I suffer very few hangovers and i believe this is due to being fit and healthy because i cannot think of another reason.

I used to drink a lot, many all day sessions but have now cut that right out and instead go to the gym more.

Seriously, i believe it is up to the individual. Everybody know's inside themselves if they have a problem with alcohol, you really don't need to ask others. I was worried i was drinking too much so stopped. Simple as that! Yeah, too much alchol will kill you over time, simple fact and everybody know's it. Same as cigarettes are killing me. I am a cigarette addict and i know it. I hope i will have the strength to stop one day but right now i haven't got that strength. i do what i enjoy doing.

Not preaching, never would or want to, just thought i'd add my two baht's worth from my own personal experience.

Have fun and keep smiling.

I think humans often or usually prefer comfort over discomfort, easy over difficult, prefer to do what they enjoy doing. The problem comes in when what we enjoy doing is destructive to ourselves and to those we love. Stopping drinking and using is not easy. It is difficult. For some of us, it was the most difficult thing we have ever done. Some of us who have a problem with booze and drugs can be persuaded by rational arguments to do something about it. Most of us, like me, I am afraid, will continue dong what we "enjoy" until it becomes too painful and has caused too much damage for use to continue.

Good luck with that.

Aloha,

Rex

[rixalex]

Remember what forum this is. it is the "I drink too Much Forum". Designed specifically to give support to people who feel they have an alcohol problem.

The OP was not asking for advice on dealing with an alcohol problem, he was asking whether or not people thought he had one. If this forum is only open to recovering/recovered alcoholics, or people with some direct experience with alcohol problems, then i can respect that but i humbly suggest that the answers he gets are likely to be of a certain viewpoint and he should bear that in mind. Just as if he posted the same question on the forum "Party time", he might also get a one-sided response.

Anyway, best of luck to the OP and hope he finds the right path for him, whatever that might be.

Over and out.

[Northpoint]

Heavy boozing for 10 to 15 years will on average shorten your lifespan by about 15 years. I wished I would have known that when I was younger.

[backsoon]

I don't have a drinking problem.

I drink.

I get drunk.

I fall asleep.

I wake up.

I drink....

NO PROBLEM !

[jumnien]

Heavy boozing for 10 to 15 years will on average shorten your lifespan by about 15 years. I wished I would have known that when I was younger.

Sorry about your personal health. I hope that your newfound sobriety will bring a renewal of spirit and great healing to your body. I have seen this in others. In my 15 year attendance at 12-step meetings, where folks have often drank very heavily for long periods of time, I have seen very few lives cut short. Most sober alcoholics, despite their years of liver torture, recover marvelously and lead happy long lives. You can too!

[ThaiPauly]

I don't have a drinking problem.

I drink.

I get drunk.

I fall asleep.

I wake up.

I drink....

NO PROBLEM !

Do you have a LIFE in between

[Mobi]

I don't have a drinking problem.

I drink.

I get drunk.

I fall asleep.

I wake up.

I drink....

NO PROBLEM !

Hilarious!

You should get a job on the comedy circuit - you'd make a killing

[StreetCowboy]

I don't think that you need to be an alcoholic to drink too much. Many of my friends would be a little bit healthier if they drank a little less...

One problem that the OP should consider is whether continuous drinking in moderation will escalate...or whether there are any signs of that escalation.

FOr years, I thought I drank too much, but didn't worry about it too much. It was only when it got of control that I started to worry; maybe if I had cut down earlier, that would have happened later?

Ideally, after I'd paid off the mortgage and got the kids through school...

So my suggestion would be to cut down, and see how it feels. If it feels like a chore, then think again...

Try to get your friends used to you drinking soft drinks. Cry off going to the pub saying you are off to the gym. If the worst comes to the worst, you could even go to the gym...

SC

[lucky2103]

I don't think that you need to be an alcoholic to drink too much. Many of my friends would be a little bit healthier if they drank a little less...

One problem that the OP should consider is whether continuous drinking in moderation will escalate...or whether there are any signs of that escalation.

FOr years, I thought I drank too much, but didn't worry about it too much. It was only when it got of control that I started to worry; maybe if I had cut down earlier, that would have happened later?

Ideally, after I'd paid off the mortgage and got the kids through school...

So my suggestion would be to cut down, and see how it feels. If it feels like a chore, then think again...

Try to get your friends used to you drinking soft drinks. Cry off going to the pub saying you are off to the gym. If the worst comes to the worst, you could even go to the gym...

SC

Well, I think the discussion is getting out of hand. im following the "2 bottles a day" rule and I dont feel any negative effect at all. I even abstain from drinking when I have some serious business the next day.

But from the view of the members of AA, Im an alcoholic...I hv yet to determine who is rght. That point of view may be right or not, Im not sure.

So if one gets drunk once a week, whats the problem about this ?

[Sean606]

Well, I think the discussion is getting out of hand. im following the "2 bottles a day" rule and I dont feel any negative effect at all. I even abstain from drinking when I have some serious business the next day.

But from the view of the members of AA, Im an alcoholic...I hv yet to determine who is rght. That point of view may be right or not, Im not sure.

So if one gets drunk once a week, whats the problem about this ?

Remember you are on an internet forum! Take the advice from the rude opinionated folk with a grain of salt! Your life is yours. I wish you all the happiness in the world. Happiness comes in many different forms for many different people.

Forget about being "clean living" as a goal. If "clean living" provides peace and happiness then go ahead and be clean. If your current lifestyle is bringing you peace and happiness keep it up!

Sean

[Bobsyouruncle]

There is a very fine line between heavy drinking and alcoholism.

I have a 55 year old brother who gets drunk every night but he NEVER starts drinking before 6pm. His health is shot to pieces and he looks 10 years older than he is but I don’t believe he is an alcoholic because to some extent he can control his drinking.

Therein lays the difference. An alcoholic has lost all control over their drinking and they are on a slow downward spiral that is very difficult to recover from.

Only the affected person can determine if they are an alcoholic or not.

[rexall]

There is a very fine line between heavy drinking and alcoholism.

I have a 55 year old brother who gets drunk every night but he NEVER starts drinking before 6pm. His health is shot to pieces and he looks 10 years older than he is but I don’t believe he is an alcoholic because to some extent he can control his drinking.

Therein lays the difference. An alcoholic has lost all control over their drinking and they are on a slow downward spiral that is very difficult to recover from.

Only the affected person can determine if they are an alcoholic or not.

Wed 1 Jul 09, 7:20 pm

Hi Bobsyouruncle, all,

You raise some interesting issues here. "Alcoholisms" is probably more accurate than "alcoholism" in the singular. Ted Kennedy and a Skid Row bum are both alcoholics, both tragic in their own way, but obviously the nature and arc of their respective diseases is considerably different. So the disease (or condition, or syndrome, or pattern or process) is difficult to define. The line between alcoholism, heavy drinking and problem drinking (whatever the hel_l those terms mean) is fuzzy. Ultimately, any of these terms is counter-productive if used as an excuse for endless debate and rationalization. Problem drinking, et al is like pornography. To badly paraphrase the American Supreme Court Justice Justice Potter Stewart speaking of pornography; I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it. The same is true, I think, of addictions and other compulsive disorders.

Most alcoholics go through various stages of attempting to control their drinking, to lessen the impact and damage. There is a famous passage in the AA "Big Book" which offers up a long laundry list of all the silly and not-so-silly things we did to try to keep drinking moderate. Someone postponing drinking until 6:00 p.m. is more likely a indication of a problem than an indication of no problem. Social drinkers don't do that. Social drinkers don't need to postpone drinking. Social drinkers don't drink much in the first place, leave drinks sitting unfinished, and can literally and figuratively "take it or leave it." "I can take it or leave it" is a sort of sneaky code or self-deception when an alcoholic says it. Social drinkers mean it. They really DON'T need it, and whether it is available or not is not an issue for them. For me, I avoided social occasions where there wasn't booze available and were not other people there who drank like me.

I consider myself a 100% alcoholic and addict. Over twenty years, my addiction went through various stages. Some years, I did not drink very much during the week, but binged on weekends. Other years, I got drunk several times during a week. Toward the end (a few years toward the end), I thought I had it pretty well under control because I never drank during the day, and on weekends, would postpone going out to the bars until 10:00 p.m. That way I could drink freely for four hours without getting out of control until the bars closed at 2:00 a.m., then we would score some cocaine (at that stage, mostly so that we could drink longer), and go to a friend's house to party until the sun came up. However, my life was a mess, and it would not be until I got clean and sober that I was able to "connect the dots" and realize just how many of my serious life-problems were directly or indirectly caused by drinking and using.

The problem is that our culture has normalized, glamorized and idealized drinking to such an extent that it becomes very difficult to identify alcoholic and addictive behavior, because if "everyone is doing it" or everyone in my crowd is doing it, then it must be normal.

Aloha,

Rex

Edited July 1, 2009 by rexall