Saving Turtles At Temples

[camerata]

Saving turtles at temples

By: Supoj Wancharoen

A conservation club is educating people that there is no merit to be gained from releasing captured turtles if the place where they are being released is not their natural habitat.

Buddhists generally are taught to believe from an early age that freeing animals from bondage is a form of merit. How can it be if the animals are still suffering, argues the Loveturtle Club. Club president Kachorn Chiaravanont said he was inviting young people to sign up for the cause and free the turtles from their misery.

Young members would provide a fresh infusion of ideas and ensure progress in the club's activities.The activities should also give the youngsters an entertaining diversion from parties, movies and shopping sprees. Better yet, they would wean the youths off narcotics and computer games.

Full story.

-- Bangkok Post 20-06-2009

[phetaroi]

To some extent, I think they're full of turtle ka ka.

"Club president Kachorn Chiaravanont said he was inviting young people to sign up for the cause and free the turtles from their misery.

How does he know the turtles are in misery? I've never had a conversation with the turtles at Wat Prayoon. Maybe they're prefectly happy in the pond. Would Kachorn enjoy a suite at the Baiyoke Sky Hotel? It's not his natural environment. That would be naked in the jungle.

"The activities should also give the youngsters an entertaining diversion from parties, movies and shopping sprees."

I'm sure Bagnkok teens will migrate in droves from parties, movies, and shopping sprees so they can wade into the swamps.

"Better yet, they would wean the youths off narcotics and computer games."

Absolutely, what drug addict wouldn't prefer turtles over narcotics?

"So we tell them that we will be taking away only half the turtles," he said."

Okay, so they will leave half the turtles in misery. That's good.

I think this is more about some misdirected PETA-types. How about saving some of the starving and neglected dogs and cats on the streets of Bangkok. Or even better, helping the pre-kindergarten aged children begging on the streets. Nope. More merit by freeing turtles.

Do I think one really gains merit by freeing turtles or birds at temples...who are then recaptured? Of course not. But there are a heck of lot of good causes that would come ahead of rescuing temple turtles, at least in my mind.

[daoyai]

Strangely angry post, While we don't know what really happens inside a turtle head, we can safely assume that keeping the animals in small polluted quarters does not bode well for the creature. There is a turtle crisis in S.E. Asia as pollution, habitat destruction and collecting for food and the huge China market has driven many species to near extinction. Any program that raises the the environmental knowledge level of local kids is worthy. Getting out in nature and doing good positive work with friends and mentors helps keep the kids busy and not in the mall or worse.

Here in Chiang Mai I often see the endangered Malayan Snail eating turtle, "Malayemys subtrajuga" for sale a wat near the Ping river, people buy them and release them into the big dirty river which is not their environment, they are most likely doomed by this action. Not the way to make merit.

[phetaroi]

Strangely angry post, While we don't know what really happens inside a turtle head, we can safely assume that keeping the animals in small polluted quarters does not bode well for the creature. There is a turtle crisis in S.E. Asia as pollution, habitat destruction and collecting for food and the huge China market has driven many species to near extinction. Any program that raises the the environmental knowledge level of local kids is worthy. Getting out in nature and doing good positive work with friends and mentors helps keep the kids busy and not in the mall or worse.

Here in Chiang Mai I often see the endangered Malayan Snail eating turtle, "Malayemys subtrajuga" for sale a wat near the Ping river, people buy them and release them into the big dirty river which is not their environment, they are most likely doomed by this action. Not the way to make merit.

Not angry...sarcastic.

I am reminded of former PM Barnharm who once proposed building zoos to decrease drug addiction.

As I walk around Bangkok, let alone upcountry, I see terrible amounts of trash floating in the rivers, canals, and ponds. Clean that up for all the wildlife. As I walk around Bangkok, I see heaps and heaps of trash that has been laying in some places for weeks, months, and years. Clean that up to improve cleanliness for animals...or do you want to save the rats, also?

[phetaroi]

Not angry...sarcastic.

I am reminded of former PM Barnharm who once proposed building zoos to decrease drug addiction.

As I walk around Bangkok, let alone upcountry, I see terrible amounts of trash floating in the rivers, canals, and ponds. Clean that up for all the wildlife. As I walk around Bangkok, I see heaps and heaps of trash that has been laying in some places for weeks, months, and years. Clean that up to improve cleanliness for animals...or do you want to save the rats, also?

Ironically, last night I was reading and happened upon a discussion comparing the merit making value of releasing turtles and birds at temples with the merit King Chulalongkorn made for the Thai nation in freeing slaves. Yes...really. They were not saying it was equal merit, but saying that the principle was the same.

[agent69]

haha LOL @ angry post. I was thinking the same.

Was the slave freeing's motivation political? As part of modernisation of the country so that it would be accepted by the westerners during the western colonisation, freeing the slaves would be quite logical thing to do. The result of the action could be just the same as freeing captured turtle unsuitable habitats. A lot of slaves were voluntary in the old Siam. A lot were born slaves. The slavery system in Siam were not the same as the Westerners'.

having said that and knowing what I know now, I would not be happy being born a slave. And I have noone to thank but the King.

[daoyai]

Strangely angry post, While we don't know what really happens inside a turtle head, we can safely assume that keeping the animals in small polluted quarters does not bode well for the creature. There is a turtle crisis in S.E. Asia as pollution, habitat destruction and collecting for food and the huge China market has driven many species to near extinction. Any program that raises the the environmental knowledge level of local kids is worthy. Getting out in nature and doing good positive work with friends and mentors helps keep the kids busy and not in the mall or worse.

Here in Chiang Mai I often see the endangered Malayan Snail eating turtle, "Malayemys subtrajuga" for sale a wat near the Ping river, people buy them and release them into the big dirty river which is not their environment, they are most likely doomed by this action. Not the way to make merit.

Not angry...sarcastic.

I am reminded of former PM Barnharm who once proposed building zoos to decrease drug addiction.

As I walk around Bangkok, let alone upcountry, I see terrible amounts of trash floating in the rivers, canals, and ponds. Clean that up for all the wildlife. As I walk around Bangkok, I see heaps and heaps of trash that has been laying in some places for weeks, months, and years. Clean that up to improve cleanliness for animals...or do you want to save the rats, also?

I think we are in agreement there, but we differ in that I think something like the turtle program is hopefully a first step in that direction. And yes I do want to save the rats from being urban scavengers as they are part of the overall web of life. I hope I live to see the day that the people here care for the land and water. There are many people here that care deeply and are working to make positive change, the turtle group appears to be of that type.

[phetaroi]

I think we are in agreement there, but we differ in that I think something like the turtle program is hopefully a first step in that direction. And yes I do want to save the rats from being urban scavengers as they are part of the overall web of life. I hope I live to see the day that the people here care for the land and water. There are many people here that care deeply and are working to make positive change, the turtle group appears to be of that type.

I think you are right, I just think their target is misguided. Sort of like putting one brick in place on the sidewalks of Bangkok.

I will say, awareness of global-warming here -- though probably superficial -- is surprising. I would say I have heard more about it in Bangkok the past month than I do in the States (other than on the news).

[H2oDunc]

I think that you might be referring to terrapins rather than turtles as turtles are open water creatures whereas terrapins are pond or local waters.

[phetaroi]

I think that you might be referring to terrapins rather than turtles as turtles are open water creatures whereas terrapins are pond or local waters.

Only if you're British.

[camerata]

Was the slave freeing's motivation political? As part of modernisation of the country so that it would be accepted by the westerners during the western colonisation, freeing the slaves would be quite logical thing to do. The result of the action could be just the same as freeing captured turtle unsuitable habitats.

Ironically, one of the unintended consequences of the end of slavery and bonded labour in Thailand was that a huge number of women had no option but to become prostitutes. Because of the end of slavery (and abuse of the polygamy law), by the 1920s, Bangkok was awash with prostitutes on a scale unimaginable today. I wonder if this reduced the overall merit gained by freeing those slaves?