British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists

[skippybangkok]

In Singapore, if you are caught, you are caught. You cannot buy your way out, like these Brits, no matter how much you pay.

In another discussion, I am disapointed to hear that most of the Thai people think that corruption is OK in Thailand. IMHO this is the root of the problem.

Yes, no corruption at all in this democratic country. A real role model for all !

[jackspratt]

In Singapore, if you are caught, you are caught. You cannot buy your way out, like these Brits, no matter how much you pay.

In another discussion, I am disapointed to hear that most of the Thai people think that corruption is OK in Thailand. IMHO this is the root of the problem.

Yes, no corruption at all in this democratic country. A real role model for all !

Unless you are unfortunate enough to be one of those endangered species, otherwise known as opposition politicians

[brahmburgers]

Is there any reason to buy from a King Power shop at the airport at all? Wouldn't in-town retailers offer better deals, so long as VAT is claimed back on departure?

No/Yes.

getting a refund via VAT office at the airport is not easy. It takes more than a receipt and showing the item purchased. It takes a special dedicated full page receipt with all the i's dotted and t's crossed perfectly, and then maybe you'll get that few % back.

if they are guilty , and instead of following the process of Thai law they have attempted to circumvent the system and pay their way out and paid well over what a Thai would have paid to get off a charge such as this - why should our sympathy lie with them ?

You missed the point. The detained couple (and all the others who were scammed) didn't have any decent choice in the matter. They were being held against their will, illegally, and threatened with a long time in a crappy Thai prison if they didn't pay a large amount immediately. It's called coercion. And it worked with them, and it would probably work to scare the crap out of me and you also - if we we're unfortunate enough to find ourselves in such a dire scenario.

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

The stories of such illegal coercions involving King Power are too many too often to be taken as anything but a series of shake-downs. TAT, AOT and King Power's top bananas should do all they can to stop this bad trend. It they think if will blow over (like the two mysterious deaths at Phi Phi) then they're wrong.

Also, if farang so often shoplift over-priced vanity items, then why aren't farang getting popped stealing such items at the prissy designer shops in Bkk and elsewhere? We never hear about it (because it doesn't happen). We only hear about on-going shoplifting problems with KP at Suwanabum airport - which is yet more proof that it's a scam scenario.

Edited July 7, 2009 by brahmburgers

[stumonster]

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

from the original story

Vijitpokin and a colleague, Kittamert Engchountada, of the Lawyers Association of Thailand, urged them to stay in the country to fight the case and have since assembled a dossier for potential prosecutions.

so they ignored the legal advice and paid

[KhaoNiaw]

if they are guilty , and instead of following the process of Thai law they have attempted to circumvent the system and pay their way out and paid well over what a Thai would have paid to get off a charge such as this - why should our sympathy lie with them ?

You missed the point. The detained couple (and all the others who were scammed) didn't have any decent choice in the matter.

The other point being, of course, that while it is easier to scam people who have really done the crime, you must be extremely naive to believe that it doesn't happen to others are innocent.

[stumonster]

you must be extremely naive to believe that it doesn't happen to others are innocent.

your ability to read between the lines is excellent

I would imagine you would be quick to pay any price if you knew the rules of evidence were not the same as your home country

[TheWalkingMan]

I like this term: Hobson's choice. From our friends at wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

Hobson's choice

A Hobson's choice is a free choice in which only one option is offered, and one may refuse to take that option. The choice is therefore between taking the option or not; "take it or leave it." The phrase is said to originate from Thomas Hobson (1544–1630), a livery stable owner at Cambridge, England. To rotate the use of his horses he offered customers the choice of either taking the horse in the stall nearest the door or taking none at all.

Hobson's choice is different from:

* a choice between limited options

* Blackmail and extortion— the choice between paying money (or other economic good) and suffering an unpleasant action

* False dilemma— only two choices are considered, when in fact there are others

* Catch-22 and Morton's Fork— all choices yield equivalent, often undesirable, results

...

And there is the problem. People caught up in this whirlwind really have no choice. Either pay the extorted amount, or suffer an unpleasant action such as being trapped in a foreign country with a jail sentence hanging over your head.

TheWalkingMan

[animatic]

Many different choices for the detainees to have.

So what accounts for multiple versions of

the extra unseen, unknown pack of smokes in your bag,

and a sudden arrest for shoplifting, since it isn't on your receipt?

Cashier sets up a reasonable well heeled patsy on their way out of the country.

Extortion and blackmail ensure for fun and profit for the security squad and friends.

[caf]

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

from the original story

Vijitpokin and a colleague, Kittamert Engchountada, of the Lawyers Association of Thailand, urged them to stay in the country to fight the case and have since assembled a dossier for potential prosecutions.

so they ignored the legal advice and paid

read the andrew drummond blog on simmon burrows if you want the facts on the pertinence of legal advice in this sort of case.

fortunately burrows did not follow it.

[hughben]

Many different choices for the detainees to have.

So what accounts for multiple versions of

the extra unseen, unknown pack of smokes in your bag,

and a sudden arrest for shoplifting, since it isn't on your receipt?

Cashier sets up a reasonable well heeled patsy on their way out of the country.

Extortion and blackmail ensure for fun and profit for the security squad and friends.

Maybe the cashiers are clueless as to what's going on.

Maybe a higher up has told them to give free gifts to certain people if they buy whatever product.

[aussimike]

Whew, i was just in that store last week.

Never again!

Thanks for the warning everyone.

just wondering or am i a little confused - what in hells name are any of the Embassies or more importantly TAT doing about this - seeing that TAT in fact control the tourist police -- have u ever noticed that the tourist police are driving better cars - have smart new looking uniforms - all paid out of the TAT budget - so if this sort of things is inpacting on the tourist sector - which has been suffering numerous down turns and bad publicity why the hel_l is TAT allowing this sort of thing or are they just turning a blind eye -- and how the hel_l can this Sri Lankan embassy gangster be allowed to roam the airports and also work as a so called volunteer translater for the police -- or is this just another amazing case of amazing thailand - i had to laugh earlier when some TV poster was extolling the virtues of this country - was this the sort of thing that he condones - oh well keep the thai smiles going and ummmm TIT --

[basjke]

Whew, i was just in that store last week.

Never again!

Thanks for the warning everyone.

just wondering or am i a little confused - what in hells name are any of the Embassies or more importantly TAT doing about this - seeing that TAT in fact control the tourist police -- have u ever noticed that the tourist police are driving better cars - have smart new looking uniforms - all paid out of the TAT budget - so if this sort of things is inpacting on the tourist sector - which has been suffering numerous down turns and bad publicity why the hel_l is TAT allowing this sort of thing or are they just turning a blind eye -- and how the hel_l can this Sri Lankan embassy gangster be allowed to roam the airports and also work as a so called volunteer translater for the police -- or is this just another amazing case of amazing thailand - i had to laugh earlier when some TV poster was extolling the virtues of this country - was this the sort of thing that he condones - oh well keep the thai smiles going and ummmm TIT --

Oops.I think you just missed this topic.Kingpower fights back

[cmdream]

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

from the original story

Vijitpokin and a colleague, Kittamert Engchountada, of the Lawyers Association of Thailand, urged them to stay in the country to fight the case and have since assembled a dossier for potential prosecutions.

so they ignored the legal advice and paid

The charge is " shop-lifting " not a capital crime. Put yourself in their place.

Strange country, even stranger police tactics, threatened, etc. What would you do ? You are not alone, you have a wife to think about. No time to be Rambo, you pay and hope that will get you out. It works ! You now want to get out of here as fast as possible and forget the nightmare you and wife have had on your dream holiday in the Land of Smiles. Facts, they are both employed at a university where they live. Not even close to the profile of a shop-lifter.

Why steal a wallet at the airport that you could buy for 100Baht on the street. Who knows how long this kind of scam has been in operation !

The victims do not say anything and hope it goes away as a bad experience.

Who wants to tell their friends back home that they "jumped" bail in Thailand

for shop-lifting. I hope this "thing" is investigated by the Thai Police and the British Embassy, Both should issue a report about their involvement and what they are doing to protect citizens in foreign lands. The British Embassy does not look good in this one. Just my viewpoint.

[CRUNCHER]

In Singapore, if you are caught, you are caught. You cannot buy your way out, like these Brits, no matter how much you pay.

In another discussion, I am disapointed to hear that most of the Thai people think that corruption is OK in Thailand. IMHO this is the root of the problem.

You are absolutely right. To stop this sort of thing, in fact to stop corruption in general, will require a major cultural shift in Thailand. (In fact to one degree or another that applies to most of S.E. Asia.)

[Benjie]

Whew, i was just in that store last week.

Never again!

Thanks for the warning everyone.

just wondering or am i a little confused - what in hells name are any of the Embassies or more importantly TAT doing about this - seeing that TAT in fact control the tourist police -- have u ever noticed that the tourist police are driving better cars - have smart new looking uniforms - all paid out of the TAT budget - so if this sort of things is inpacting on the tourist sector - which has been suffering numerous down turns and bad publicity why the hel_l is TAT allowing this sort of thing or are they just turning a blind eye -- and how the hel_l can this Sri Lankan embassy gangster be allowed to roam the airports and also work as a so called volunteer translater for the police -- or is this just another amazing case of amazing thailand - i had to laugh earlier when some TV poster was extolling the virtues of this country - was this the sort of thing that he condones - oh well keep the thai smiles going and ummmm TIT --

Apparently the British embassy offered to help and the couple turned them down.

In light of the footage showing the couple clearly stealing, its fairly obvious why they didn't want the embassy to help settle the matter legally.

[CRUNCHER]

Whew, i was just in that store last week.

Never again!

Thanks for the warning everyone.

just wondering or am i a little confused - what in hells name are any of the Embassies or more importantly TAT doing about this - seeing that TAT in fact control the tourist police -- have u ever noticed that the tourist police are driving better cars - have smart new looking uniforms - all paid out of the TAT budget - so if this sort of things is inpacting on the tourist sector - which has been suffering numerous down turns and bad publicity why the hel_l is TAT allowing this sort of thing or are they just turning a blind eye -- and how the hel_l can this Sri Lankan embassy gangster be allowed to roam the airports and also work as a so called volunteer translater for the police -- or is this just another amazing case of amazing thailand - i had to laugh earlier when some TV poster was extolling the virtues of this country - was this the sort of thing that he condones - oh well keep the thai smiles going and ummmm TIT --

Apparently the British embassy offered to help and the couple turned them down.

In light of the footage showing the couple clearly stealing, its fairly obvious why they didn't want the embassy to help settle the matter legally.

Obviously what they wanted was new passports and plane tickets out of Thailand.

As one old Thailand hand told me years ago, there is good and bad in Thailand. The bad is that if you get into trouble you have to pay. The good is that you can pay. Unacceptable, but fact never-the-less.

[Datsun240Z]

As a poster wrote:

The charge is " shop-lifting " not a capital crime. Put yourself in their place.

Strange country, even stranger police tactics, threatened, etc. What would you do ? You are not alone, you have a wife to think about. No time to be Rambo, you pay and hope that will get you out. It works ! You now want to get out of here as fast as possible and forget the nightmare you and wife have had on your dream holiday in the Land of Smiles. Facts, they are both employed at a university where they live. Not even close to the profile of a shop-lifter.

Why steal a wallet at the airport that you could buy for 100Baht on the street. Who knows how long this kind of scam has been in operation !

The victims do not say anything and hope it goes away as a bad experience.

Who wants to tell their friends back home that they "jumped" bail in Thailand

for shop-lifting. I hope this "thing" is investigated by the Thai Police and the British Embassy, Both should issue a report about their involvement and what they are doing to protect citizens in foreign lands. The British Embassy does not look good in this one. Just my viewpoint.

Understriped: Not gonna happen, corruption.

[Serpico]

As a poster wrote:

The charge is " shop-lifting " not a capital crime. Put yourself in their place.

Strange country, even stranger police tactics, threatened, etc. What would you do ? You are not alone, you have a wife to think about. No time to be Rambo, you pay and hope that will get you out. It works ! You now want to get out of here as fast as possible and forget the nightmare you and wife have had on your dream holiday in the Land of Smiles. Facts, they are both employed at a university where they live. Not even close to the profile of a shop-lifter.

Why steal a wallet at the airport that you could buy for 100Baht on the street. Who knows how long this kind of scam has been in operation !

The victims do not say anything and hope it goes away as a bad experience.

Who wants to tell their friends back home that they "jumped" bail in Thailand

for shop-lifting. I hope this "thing" is investigated by the Thai Police and the British Embassy, Both should issue a report about their involvement and what they are doing to protect citizens in foreign lands. The British Embassy does not look good in this one. Just my viewpoint.

Understriped: Not gonna happen, corruption.

Investigated by Thai Police?

Now that is funny.

[stumonster]

In light of the footage showing the couple clearly stealing, its fairly obvious why they didn't want the embassy to help settle the matter legally.

if the footage is not fake , , if they are the same couple , , if they did steal the wallet , - these are the arguments for it being a scam.

I think if you knew you had stolen and you realised the evidence that had been shown to you would get you convicted in Thailand and you had the resources , you would be hauling out the chequebook.

maybe there is an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

As "Stumonster" wrote:

no I did not write that

why do I get the feeling that thedon is back ??

Edited July 8, 2009 by stumonster

[brahmburgers]

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

from the original story

Vijitpokin and a colleague, Kittamert Engchountada, of the Lawyers Association of Thailand, urged them to stay in the country to fight the case and have since assembled a dossier for potential prosecutions.

so they ignored the legal advice and paid

The couple are being kept somewhere against their wishes. They're looking at losing the two seats on their flight home (no compensation, of course), AND.... Thai lawyers are saying they can stay and fight the charges - which could entail many months more in Thailand - not working at their jobs, paying for food and hotels, perhaps being under arrest of some sort, plus possibly not having their passports. ....and a questionable verdict which may find them guilty, and therefore forced to stay in a Thai jail.

Not a decent option if you ask me. The alternative is to pay an extortionists fee and get free right away. I know which option I'd feel compelled to take, especially if I had a wife along.

[jackspratt]

Facts, they are both employed at a university where they live. Not even close to the profile of a shop-lifter. Pray tell, what is the "profile" of a shop lifter?

Why steal a wallet at the airport that you could buy for 100Baht on the street. Exactly

[salty]

There could be good news for Manchester United fans towards the end of the month. You know what they say about Liverpool people.

[caf]

This is not the type of scenario where you can demand to speak to an attorney, or make a phone call. This is a scenario where you feel isolated and tangibly threatened - and where paying big money quickly seems like the only way out of one's h#llish situation.

from the original story

Vijitpokin and a colleague, Kittamert Engchountada, of the Lawyers Association of Thailand, urged them to stay in the country to fight the case and have since assembled a dossier for potential prosecutions.

so they ignored the legal advice and paid

The couple are being kept somewhere against their wishes. They're looking at losing the two seats on their flight home (no compensation, of course), AND.... Thai lawyers are saying they can stay and fight the charges - which could entail many months more in Thailand - not working at their jobs, paying for food and hotels, perhaps being under arrest of some sort, plus possibly not having their passports. ....and a questionable verdict which may find them guilty, and therefore forced to stay in a Thai jail.

Not a decent option if you ask me. The alternative is to pay an extortionists fee and get free right away. I know which option I'd feel compelled to take, especially if I had a wife along.

You are absolutely right. But Benjie has opened a new thread to continue his ramblimgs. Presumably because he has lost the argument on here

[stumonster]

The couple are being kept somewhere against their wishes.

You are absolutely right.

arrested on suspicion of theft - posted bail - advised that a condition of their bail was to reside at a motel

maybe they did wish to be elsewhere , but I think that is clouding the issues - you can wish for the Judicial process to work however you want but it will not change how it works.

[Benjie]

You are absolutely right. But Benjie has opened a new thread to continue his ramblimgs. Presumably because he has lost the argument on here

I haven't done either of those things.

Theres really no argument, they got caught stealing, the British embassy offered to help but they declined that and bribed their way out.

[Hawk]

Whew, i was just in that store last week.

Never again!

Thanks for the warning everyone.

just wondering or am i a little confused - what in hells name are any of the Embassies or more importantly TAT doing about this - seeing that TAT in fact control the tourist police -- have u ever noticed that the tourist police are driving better cars - have smart new looking uniforms - all paid out of the TAT budget - so if this sort of things is inpacting on the tourist sector - which has been suffering numerous down turns and bad publicity why the hel_l is TAT allowing this sort of thing or are they just turning a blind eye -- and how the hel_l can this Sri Lankan embassy gangster be allowed to roam the airports and also work as a so called volunteer translater for the police -- or is this just another amazing case of amazing thailand - i had to laugh earlier when some TV poster was extolling the virtues of this country - was this the sort of thing that he condones - oh well keep the thai smiles going and ummmm TIT --

Apparently the British embassy offered to help and the couple turned them down.

Yes, the embassy advised them to accept and pay through the nose for the services a corrupt lawyer . Great help that!

[stumonster]

for the services a XXXXXXX lawyer . Great help that!

I would advise you to delete that post

Edited July 8, 2009 by stumonster

[Hawk]

for the services a XXXXXXX lawyer . Great help that!

I would advise you to delete that post

Why?

A few years ago the embassy recommended that I use one of the lawyers on their official list, I did, and the bugger ripped me off for B50,000.

[jackspratt]

for the services a XXXXXXX lawyer . Great help that!

I would advise you to delete that post

Why?

A few years ago the embassy recommended that I use one of the lawyers on their official list, I did, and the bugger ripped me off for B50,000.

Have you got a video of it?

[MyphuketLife]

I will never ever shop at the airport period, if these people really stole or not does not concern me.

The extra pack of cigs, the lady paying for makeup the cashier only rings up one and puts both in the bag seconds later the security is threatening jail for the cashiers mistake? The customer eating food and accused of stealing water or soda?

How many people are stuck in jail that refused to play the PAY game for a crime they did not do?

I will not shop at the airports in Thailand, I will not even use the food court in Thailand. Is it worth the risk of having this happen to me? no. I will vote with my money and refuse to buy ANYTHING at the airport. Hopefully enough of the airports travelers do the same, maybe then the airport will put a stop to it?

Its a shame... This story is yet another of seemingly endless negative things going on in Thailand, that is getting printed and read by potential tourists. I would say another nail in the coffin, but in all reality I think they are trying to make a coffin with just nails.

None of this will change until Thai’s push to end corruption, until then if it’s not this scam it will be another scam.