Thais Ok With Corrupted Government

[EndofDays]

You bet they have, If every stopped doing things for a month, just protest, you watch what happen!

Unlikely I think, but possible.

Personally, I fail to understand why the UK population has not yet taken to the streets given the outrages that have surfaced recently. I suppose that if the UK populous is not inclined to show their will, the Thai masses are unlikely to do much at all. Always happy to be surprised though!

Thais in very differnt situation than westerners IMO. Westerners are willing to accept corruption now because they've all been co-opted. They're all in, stocks, bonds, currencies, "property ladders", whatever. All the capital they've accumulated to ensure their leisure. Corruption? raiding the teasury? debasing the currency? Whatever, but please God make my account balance screen go back to where it was. Never mind that they fuc_k their children and grandchildren. That's who we are now when we take a look in the mirror.

Thais on the other hand have known about corruption and cheating all their lives. The bent prosper and the meek take it in the ass. Yeah, the poll doesn't surprise me much.

I'm thinking "lost his shirt" in the markets and now a poor sport. I made $200 last week in my stocks? If you are too stupid to balance your checking account you should stay away from the stock market. That is for grown-ups.

[dillman]

At least we know the survey is not corrupt

[jumnien]

All politics is corrupt by definition. There is no moral high ground in the struggle for power and domination in the social structural relationship between human beings. Citizens are allowed varying degrees of influence, usually very little, in choosing the power positions within the gangs and mafias that will dominate them. See things as they really are, not as one would like them to be. That is the starting point. Swearing complete allegiance to one particular gang or mafia is not most skillful place to begin.

[johnboy72]

A latest survey reveals that many Thai people would accept a crooked government if it can make the country prosper and raise their standard of living.

But they had this with Thaksin... Of course he was dodgy as anything but who hasn't been + the country n people did fine while he was running the show. Seemed to do ok for foreign investment as well.

[webfact]

the crux of the matter is that most Thais belief a person with a lot of money (even "unusual" rich) must be a "good person" (tam dee dai dee) and can't be bad.

In my almost 3 decades in this country I heard this argument thousandfold from all levels of society!

[Plus]

A latest survey reveals that many Thai people would accept a crooked government if it can make the country prosper and raise their standard of living.

But they had this with Thaksin... Of course he was dodgy as anything but who hasn't been + the country n people did fine while he was running the show. Seemed to do ok for foreign investment as well.

There are limits on how much they can accept.

The fact that Thaksin managed to piss off so many people in this country is a testament to the degree of his corruption.

Another thing is that even though corruption is acceptable, it's something you do in private - take the spoils and be quiet. Thaksin had no shame, in your face and bragging about it, and that was unacceptable, too.

[doggie888888]

The reason the Thai's think like that is because 3/4 of this country are uneducated !!!

Educate the people and they wouldn't think like THAT !!!!!! Good luck

The government wants to keep the people stupid it's a lot easier to lie and cheat them !!!

Exactly! Education and education and education. Ask a Thai, how much for a uni education, how accessible are scholarships, how transparent are all those "free books, uniform etc etc" programs? And after all of that, what is the quality of the education? Is it any surprise that what comes out the other end is someone who actually thinks they can tolerate the corruption on the massive scale that exists here, LIKE THERE IS NO CHOICE?

[Shotime]

"Corrupt but Content" is one city's motto. Corrupt governments are tolerable and expected. Like a bartender. You know they're going to steal. You just try to limit the thieving. Here, they seem to know no bounds.

[Plus]

The only reason people study more is to steal more money, as fancy titles put them beyond any scrutiny.

Education won't help them.

[animatic]

At least we know the survey is not corrupt

My point early on in the thread was that we know no such thing.

Survey's in Thailand are actualy known to be most often quite biased

and typically too small to have any statistical validity.

[khonkaen man]

They just realise that the system as it is does not reward politicians/bureaucrats according to their services, so tea money makes it fair.

And the system, from elections down to cabinet decision making, prevents free and fair competition for those positions, i.e. politicians who can deliver more and steal/get paid less are weeded out on approach.

Same thing in the offices - relatives get cushy positions without earning them and that reflects on overall productivity, but somehow people think that brown nosing your incompetent boss is better than improving company performance, i.e. people don't feel like stakeholders, only as leeches whose goal is to take away as much as possible.

Of course not everybody is the same, hence not 100% answers in that survey.

I also don't think that there will be any change coming from the down up - it's up to the leaders to set better examples and make lower rungs feel included and involved.

When we have folks like Thaksin setting standards for fairness there's no hope at all. He doesn't feel like stakeholder himself, to begin with, he is a leech. You need statesmen at the top, people who put country's interests above their own, true patriots, and I don't know if any exist outside traditional elites and top military guys like Prem and Sorayud. Every one else just wants to have a good time at the expense of others.

As for revolutionary movement - they have absolutely no credibility left already and they haven't tasted the power yet. When they felt they were getting some, they tried to burn the country down. No future in these guys, they are like teenagers, lots of anger but zero sense. Maybe they wil mature one day, like those commies from 70s who now advise Thaksin on looting the country. Time does change idealists around.

Are you pulling my pud. These are the kind of people who will not allow democracy in Thailand. Their job is to maintain the status quo..... ensuring that the old elite stay rich and powerful even if it means toppling governments to achieve that goal.

[emancipationthailand]

WOW, I'M AMAZED WITH THE FARANG'S VIEWS HERE!

This is like the nepal's model 10 years ago ... About one of the major root of all the systematically corruptions in Thailand (The fundamental problem) ... all of you shouldn't be able to imagine how both the ABAC and Bangkok Post has served as arms of the truth and hidious overpowered crook.

I'm truly pity some of the view here. Thailand is sure better off without the narrow-mind foreigners.

[emancipationthailand]

They just realise that the system as it is does not reward politicians/bureaucrats according to their services, so tea money makes it fair.

And the system, from elections down to cabinet decision making, prevents free and fair competition for those positions, i.e. politicians who can deliver more and steal/get paid less are weeded out on approach.

Same thing in the offices - relatives get cushy positions without earning them and that reflects on overall productivity, but somehow people think that brown nosing your incompetent boss is better than improving company performance, i.e. people don't feel like stakeholders, only as leeches whose goal is to take away as much as possible.

Of course not everybody is the same, hence not 100% answers in that survey.

I also don't think that there will be any change coming from the down up - it's up to the leaders to set better examples and make lower rungs feel included and involved.

When we have folks like Thaksin setting standards for fairness there's no hope at all. He doesn't feel like stakeholder himself, to begin with, he is a leech. You need statesmen at the top, people who put country's interests above their own, true patriots, and I don't know if any exist outside traditional elites and top military guys like Prem and Sorayud. Every one else just wants to have a good time at the expense of others.

As for revolutionary movement - they have absolutely no credibility left already and they haven't tasted the power yet. When they felt they were getting some, they tried to burn the country down. No future in these guys, they are like teenagers, lots of anger but zero sense. Maybe they wil mature one day, like those commies from 70s who now advise Thaksin on looting the country. Time does change idealists around.

LOL ...

IMHO, here is the Dilemma ... In a democratic country where lies 3 governing pillars; legislation, administration and judiciary, what is the justification if the military and its affiliations including the affiliated media establishments, to led the people to believe that the country is doom without the military’s intervention, interruption and influence over the governing mechanisms? If it’s so, what are the dangers may be imposed to the human rights of the citizens?

[hammered]

The results of the survey are not at all surprising.

By people saying that will accept a corrupt government, does that mean they dont want the corrupt prosecuted or maybe dont care if they arent?

[losworld]

One must give the Thais credit for their honesty on this issue and a certain amount of discredit for their lack of action against this corruption.

I've always believed that Western systems are as corrupt as Thailand in many regards. The prime difference between corruption in developed countries and developing nations is merely in the levels it exists. Developing nations and underdeveloped nations are generally corrupt from the top to the bottom and developed nations (i.e. Western) are corrupt mainly at the top. So if the average citizen doesn't see a corrupt police force, teachers, etc. he or she believes the system is not corrupt. Now if one is an insider at higher levels one would quickly recognize the corruption. This is an instance where the Westerner is more ignorant of this issue than the Thai.

[bonobo]

There are two major differences between Thailand and most western countries, Japan, and even China here.  

First, if this poll were to be given in the US or Germany, I dare say most people would say they wouldn't accept corruption in the government.

The second big difference is that in Thailand, as in much of Africa and parts of Asia, corruption has very little deleterious consequences for the perpetrator.  Government officials rarely go to jail unless their rivals have now been put in power.

In the west and Japan, corrupt officals are caught and put in prison, and in China, they are shot. It wasn't that long ago that a governor in CHina was executed for corruption.

THere will be corruption anywhere where people have power.  But when corruption is accepted and not persecuted, it will be much more widespread than where it is not accepted and is widely prosecuted.

[caf]

WOW, I'M AMAZED WITH THE FARANG'S VIEWS HERE!

This is like the nepal's model 10 years ago ... About one of the major root of all the systematically corruptions in Thailand (The fundamental problem) ... all of you shouldn't be able to imagine how both the ABAC and Bangkok Post has served as arms of the truth and hidious overpowered crook.

I'm truly pity some of the view here. Thailand is sure better off without the narrow-mind foreigners.

Do you have any statistics to show Thailand would be better off without foreigners?

oh and

thai-bashing is against forum rules and most posters respect it. so please don't engage in farang-bashing

[JR Texas]

WOW, I'M AMAZED WITH THE FARANG'S VIEWS HERE!

This is like the nepal's model 10 years ago ... About one of the major root of all the systematically corruptions in Thailand (The fundamental problem) ... all of you shouldn't be able to imagine how both the ABAC and Bangkok Post has served as arms of the truth and hidious overpowered crook.

I'm truly pity some of the view here. Thailand is sure better off without the narrow-mind foreigners.

Do you have any statistics to show Thailand would be better off without foreigners?

oh and

thai-bashing is against forum rules and most posters respect it. so please don't engage in farang-bashing

Can anything be done about the situation........solution? I think so.

The first step is to recognize that a problem exists.

The second step is to think about how to solve it and reach a widespread consensus.

The third step is to organize the working classes and take massive (and peaceful) political action.

Thailand aside, no countries have done this.....hardly any are even trying it (maybe Iran is at the moment or at least thinks it is).

It means--at least in democratic societies--the formation of new political parties based on new ideas/beliefs that are designed to improve the quality of life for the majority and not just for a few elites.

The ideas/beliefs that underpin our social structures today (worldwide) are outdated, dysfunctional and destructive to present and especially future generations.

The only way to make the positive change we need to make rapidly is for some charismatic figure to come forth.....another Kennedy type person, for example, could do it.

But leadership of the type I am talking about does not seem to exists anywhere. And as long as the masses accept the status quo and actually take actions to exploit themselves....no change will take place.

This is true for Thailand........it is true for all nations.

[givenall]

Thais ok with corrupted government

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 28/06/2009 at 12:02 PM

A latest survey reveals that many Thai people would accept a crooked government if it can make the country prosper and raise their standard of living.

The Abac Poll Research Centre conducted a survey on people's well-being, involving 1,228 households in 17 provinces nationwide.

84.5 per cent viewed that corruption in businesses would not be unusual and 51.2 per cent said they would tolerate a corrupted government if it can improve the country and their well-being.

-- Bangkok Post 2009/06/28

The problem with corrupt government is that the head of government make themselves prosper before they think about the people prosperity. This is a simple fact that any corruption will benefit only a few and since any good has bad, the majorities will lose

Edited by Mario2008: lines removed to comply with BangkokPost qouting rules. Story continues here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1473...pted-government

[tigerbalm]

Why does the government hate Thaksin? The answer is quite simple. He is smarter than the rest of the thieves. He shortened the BIG feed trough and gave that money to the farmers. The other thieves were NOT smart enough to share any of the spoils. The elite refuse to give the farmers anything. This government could make the farmers forget Thaksin if they would share a few crumbs. That's not going to happen.

I dont think you find he gave the farmers money but loaned it or gave them easy access to loans, which subsequently pushed a lot further in to debt (alough i did read some where the loan payment period was extended because of the inability of a lot of them to repay)

I have yet to come across any farmer who's living standards have increased by this, quite the opposite in fact.

It still surprises me the number of farmers and mini mart owners etc, still yearn for the return of MR T, they see the curent downturn in the country not the fault of a global turn down but the fault of the present goverment, it seems some one is not giving them the whole story.

Just my ovservation

Edited June 29, 2009 by tigerbalm

[samgrowth]

Only corrupted citizens allows to have corrupted government.

I.e. Before you blame the government, blame yourself.

[Datsun240Z]

the crux of the matter is that most Thais belief a person with a lot of money (even "unusual" rich) must be a "good person" (tam dee dai dee) and can't be bad.

In my almost 3 decades in this country I heard this argument thousandfold from all levels of society!

When was the next farang barbeque party?

[Datsun240Z]

WOW, I'M AMAZED WITH THE FARANG'S VIEWS HERE!

This is like the nepal's model 10 years ago ... About one of the major root of all the systematically corruptions in Thailand (The fundamental problem) ... all of you shouldn't be able to imagine how both the ABAC and Bangkok Post has served as arms of the truth and hidious overpowered crook.

I'm truly pity some of the view here. Thailand is sure better off without the narrow-mind foreigners.

Go back to school Som Chai

[Datsun240Z]

The only reason people study more is to steal more money

That explains this picture of a Thai University

[trogers]

I believe Thais are very consistent people. In line with their belief that corruption in government is okay, the following acts should also be perfectly okay and legalised:

1 Shoplifting, pickpockets, purse or valuables snatching, grab and flee, etc

2. Robbery

3. Pilfering company's money and valuables

4. Car theft

5. Corruption in the private sector

6. Extortion and kidnapping for ransom

In fact, there should be some form of National award for the person who achieve the best results, and there after be send to tour the world to spread this Thai spirit.

[ingvar]

Thai people think 80% with emotion, loyalties towards family, friends and the local feudal mafia king makes concepts of right and wrong very muddled. Loyalties always win. There are no clear rules, even if the law says something it is more often feelings that governs how people decide what is right and wrong. For example some rich guys kills innocent bystanders in a Benz car rage, the degree of punishment is decided from how deep he prostrates and apologizes to the victims family and how much money is provided. A few tears allways helps too. Had it been a bus driver he would have fled the scene and never been found again. drunken construction workers rapes some westerner and gets a few years in jail while a diabolic farang who tries to smuggle drugs will be executed or imprisoned for life.

[cpofc]

Thai people think 80% with emotion, loyalties towards family, friends and the local feudal mafia king makes concepts of right and wrong very muddled. Loyalties always win. There are no clear rules, even if the law says something it is more often feelings that governs how people decide what is right and wrong. For example some rich guys kills innocent bystanders in a Benz car rage, the degree of punishment is decided from how deep he prostrates and apologizes to the victims family and how much money is provided. A few tears allways helps too. Had it been a bus driver he would have fled the scene and never been found again. drunken construction workers rapes some westerner and gets a few years in jail while a diabolic farang who tries to smuggle drugs will be executed or imprisoned for life.

If you discount those other strictly ASIAN farangs, Chinese, Khmer etc., the Thais have NEVER executed a Westerner Farang as far as I know. And I would confidently say they never will.

As for the Laws and Penalties pertaining to illegal drugs. They are well publicised and promulgated, Internationally. In Australia you get them shoved down your throat when you make a Passport App. Again, I say, know the rules of the game before you play. it is the Malaysians and Singaporeans who will KILL you.

As for thais living with corruption. Why not. We do where we come from. The richest man in Australia died just recently. A bloke by the name of Richard Pratt, a post war Jewish Hungarian refugee from the Russian takeover. He was also recently charged and convicted of Racketeering and Price fixing. He was talking billions of dollars coming from the average Australian working mans pocket.

So? What happened when he died? Many wanted to give him a State Funeral! Noone said a bad word about him, especially the Pollies.

So, recently when some thai friends told me that they appreciated the 30 Baht Medical Service more than they loathed Thaksin's Singtel deal I reckoned I could understand where they are coming from.

Everyday the recession deepens in Thailand, everyday Mr Thaksin is looking better in the eye of battling Thais. Especially when the present Government, whether it is their own fault or not, are losing their grip on the country's finances.

Edited June 30, 2009 by cpofc

[iko]

Corruption is a pillar of every democracy. All democratic countries are corrupted (competition = corruption). The difference between thai and western democracies is that there (in western democracies) you need more money in order to bribe someone. I like thailand because corruptioin is, let's say, cheap.

[crocodilexp]

When we have folks like Thaksin setting standards for fairness there's no hope at all. He doesn't feel like stakeholder himself, to begin with, he is a leech. You need statesmen at the top, people who put country's interests above their own, true patriots, and I don't know if any exist outside traditional elites and top military guys like Prem and Sorayud. Every one else just wants to have a good time at the expense of others.

I doubt guys you mentioned did not reach beyond their army/state salary (quick Google search proves it).

The danger with unselfish, benevolent statesmen is that they get drunk with power over time, and start to equate themselves with the state. It's not only money that corrupts and makes people bend the rules.

What makes a true democracy is checks & balances -- it's not so much the ability to *elect* a leader (Hitler and W were both elected), but the ability for voters to kick one out of office when he proves incompetent. Same with corruption -- it will always exist, but elements of the system should keep each other in check. It always takes a fair number of honest and brave people for this, but they are not sufficient -- framework must allow and encourage them to do things right. The survey indicates that in Thailand this is not the case -- corruption-fighters won't get much moral statisfaction or popular approval in Thai society.

[samgrowth]

"Thais Ok With Corrupted Government, many Thai people would accept a crooked government

So, you we blame that the thai govt are corrupted?

Or should be look at the root cause: Thais people are OK with corrupted government, so it is OK for the govt to be corrupted as mandated by 80% of the voters.