Intl. School / Univ. Teachers & Professors:

[junkofdavid2]

To international school or university educators:

(This does not pertain to the "English language subject"... I'm talking about math, science, finance, and other subjects).

1) Do you ever catch yourself "lowering" your standards of passing in order to "help" your students pass, under the "consideration" that since they don't speak/understand English, it's therefore "okay" to not understand subject concepts, etc., and then therefore allow them to pass even if they don't understand the subject matter?

2) Do you think this is a "justified" thing to do, considering your circumstances?

*One would argue that since the kid, on his own/parents' option, willingly goes to an international school, that English incompetence is not an excuse to "misunderstand" other subjects... But is this a fair argument?

3) IF this practice actually does take place, do you think it lowers standards of the school as a whole, and is therefore unfair to the English-fluent kids?

[LawnGnome]

I teach at Mahidol University, College of Music. Been there for 7 years now. Our college was recently recognized as the "outstanding organization" of Thailand for 2008. (Got to go see HRH Princess Sirindthon 2 weeks ago, a very nice occasion). Every single UG student who has passed through my program is either working in a top job, or is pursuing graduate education here or in the US.

Lowering standards? No. Myself and my collegues have actually helped to raise the standards of music and music education in the country, and it will continue to improve, since our students are graduating with a much higher knowledge and skill set than has been seen in Thailand before. My master's degree students are now university professors at Kasetsart, Payap, and Rangsit.

Boasting? Sure, a little. But I wanted to make the point that it's not all "gloom and doom", as many would have you believe. There are quality teachers at my school, doing quality work (for a government teacher salary, no less).

The english standards of my students vary, but I always speak english to them, and I give them grade goals in their english courses (outside of their private applied study with me) so that they can improve as much as possible. A recurring theme in our weekly studio class meetings is that english is the "key to the kingdom" so to speak, in terms of their job market base. If they can speak and make themselves understood, they can work in Thailand, but also in any other SE Asian country. Presenting the challenge that learning the language will increase their income in the future, their future quality of life, and their present quality of life (because if they don't get top grades, i put my foot in their ass), makes them surprising eager to improve their skills.

Hosting an world music conference in 3 days. Better get back to work.

[PeaceBlondie]

The 5 or 6 international schools in Chiang Mai have only one high world-class accredited standard for ALL students, in all subjects.

[Ijustwannateach]

Most of the serious students at top-tier schools here are actually pretty good- various Thai students regularly win regional (Pan- or Southeast- Asian) competitions of math and science, in competition with the best students from other countries- many of whom are in international schools here or elsewhere.

I think where people get let down is in the lower- to middle-class schools here- in the lower class schools because the salaries for teachers are so low and the students are very economically disadvantaged; and in the middle-class schools because they are run more like businesses for administrative profit than for the purpose of education and child development.

[LawnGnome]

Most of the serious students at top-tier schools here are actually pretty good- various Thai students regularly win regional (Pan- or Southeast- Asian) competitions of math and science, in competition with the best students from other countries- many of whom are in international schools here or elsewhere.

I think where people get let down is in the lower- to middle-class schools here- in the lower class schools because the salaries for teachers are so low and the students are very economically disadvantaged; and in the middle-class schools because they are run more like businesses for administrative profit than for the purpose of education and child development.

Agreed!

[PeaceBlondie]

My comment about Chiang Mai refers only to top tier because those fully accredited good-paying schools are the only kind of intern. schools we have.

[culicine]

Here's a quick question what has been on my mind sometime:

For the Thai students in international schools, they are expected to sit external exams - IGCSE, A-Levels, IB, etc. If they do very poorly in these, are they out in the cold? Does the Thai MOE also grant them their M6 certificate (which is a given in every Thai school). This is why EP's are so popular - they are under the MOE (i.e, they will all "pass"), they get to learn more english, and usually end up in Thai universities here. I would have thought international schools might be a risky option for many Thai students (if they can't get an A-C in IGCSE, they can't get into an international program in a university here).

I'm hoping to see, eventually, Thai school EP's formally running a foreign curriculum (e.g IGCSE), and supplement this with the Thai subjects such as Thai social and buddhism. At least then teachers have clear guidelines on what to teach.

As I'm in an EP, I generally don't lower my standards - those that don;t have the ability to pass though some kind of learning disability, I can help through; lazy students have a much harder time getting their 50% (say 5-10 retests in their holidays).

[junkofdavid2]

Here's a quick question what has been on my mind sometime:

For the Thai students in international schools, they are expected to sit external exams - IGCSE, A-Levels, IB, etc. If they do very poorly in these, are they out in the cold? Does the Thai MOE also grant them their M6 certificate (which is a given in every Thai school). This is why EP's are so popular - they are under the MOE (i.e, they will all "pass"), they get to learn more english, and usually end up in Thai universities here. I would have thought international schools might be a risky option for many Thai students (if they can't get an A-C in IGCSE, they can't get into an international program in a university here).

I'm hoping to see, eventually, Thai school EP's formally running a foreign curriculum (e.g IGCSE), and supplement this with the Thai subjects such as Thai social and buddhism. At least then teachers have clear guidelines on what to teach.

As I'm in an EP, I generally don't lower my standards - those that don;t have the ability to pass though some kind of learning disability, I can help through; lazy students have a much harder time getting their 50% (say 5-10 retests in their holidays).

"Quick" question?

[huawei]

Here's a quick question what has been on my mind sometime:

For the Thai students in international schools, they are expected to sit external exams - IGCSE, A-Levels, IB, etc. If they do very poorly in these, are they out in the cold? Does the Thai MOE also grant them their M6 certificate (which is a given in every Thai school). This is why EP's are so popular - they are under the MOE (i.e, they will all "pass"), they get to learn more english, and usually end up in Thai universities here. I would have thought international schools might be a risky option for many Thai students (if they can't get an A-C in IGCSE, they can't get into an international program in a university here).

I'm hoping to see, eventually, Thai school EP's formally running a foreign curriculum (e.g IGCSE), and supplement this with the Thai subjects such as Thai social and buddhism. At least then teachers have clear guidelines on what to teach.

As I'm in an EP, I generally don't lower my standards - those that don;t have the ability to pass though some kind of learning disability, I can help through; lazy students have a much harder time getting their 50% (say 5-10 retests in their holidays).

You make an excellent point. I took my Thai/english daughter out of a local thai school at 11 and put her into a top international school in Bangkok. She had to go through the entrance exam then the language center for a year before entering the main school to study 6 IGCSE subjects .She struggled with changing from a local provincal Thai school to a top notch international school. The difference in her education was like chalk and cheese, it reminded me of the grammar schooling in the uk.She has just recently managed to get 5 of those (A-C) and is therefore eligible for M6 certficate. It was hugely risky as she is not that academic, but the school was exceptionally good in getting the best out of her. The cost is however crippling especially when you add boarding costs.I believe that if you do not have 5 o-levels you cannot obtain the M6 certficate. She will not do a-levels as she wants to go to a Thai university and there doesn't seem to be much point.

My advice send your child to a good international school as young as possible, if you have the means.If not as you say EP seems the better option so they stay under the MOE. I have had many sleepless nights pondering this very issue.

[toptuan]

I think where people get let down is in the lower- to middle-class schools here- in the lower class schools because the salaries for teachers are so low and the students are very economically disadvantaged; and in the middle-class schools because they are run more like businesses for administrative profit than for the purpose of education and child development.

This reminded me of a sobering article I read in The Nation (print copy) a few weeks back. Particulary damning is the very frist statement by the Education Minister.

[shaun86]

A bit off-topic, but just wondering if there is a recommended-college/international school list anywhere? Thanks

Edit: just came across it as soon as i posted here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Schools-Recommend-t31441.html

[topben]

Most of the serious students at top-tier schools here are actually pretty good- various Thai students regularly win regional (Pan- or Southeast- Asian) competitions of math and science, in competition with the best students from other countries- many of whom are in international schools here or elsewhere.

I think where people get let down is in the lower- to middle-class schools here- in the lower class schools because the salaries for teachers are so low and the students are very economically disadvantaged; and in the middle-class schools because they are run more like businesses for administrative profit than for the purpose of education and child development.

lowering school standards? maybe. but note the advice here. the west even thwen teaching their local students do pass their students even though some are just not passable. why? many reasons prevail. yes, thailand has many very bright students, even though english is not their first language. but who needs english when music is an universal language with a unique script in aworld of its own. think about it.many of my thai schoolmates have been in the thai parliament now and were trained on scholarship in some of the best schools in the west. and, what happens to them when they return to thailand? heaven forbid i say more. thank god very very few did get corrupted . suffice i say what is more important right away teach them whilst they are very young and they are then not likely to go astray when standards get lowered a wee bit because of language barrier. compromise nothing on education, i'll say. for the love of education and for the love of fututre generations, use your judgement on a case by case basis when educating anyone anytime. .

[scorecard]

I am a 'permanent' lecturer in a top flight Thai university business school.

No, I don't lower standards at all, and my Thai students would not want me to.

To enter the programs conducted in full English students need to have very advanced English language listening, speaking and writing skills.

If they cannot pass the English entrance exams they are deliberately advised where they need to improve and given good advice on how to impove their english, and are actively encouraged to try again.

Another important point - my university has numerous joint exchange programs with quite prestigious univertsity across the world: UK, HK, Singapore, US, Australia, NZ, Canada, Germany Copenhagen, China, and more. In Singapore we have active exchange programs with; NUS, Singapore Management University, Nan Yang. Also with schools such as: Ivey, McGill, Shanghai University.

These exchange program operate to a structured framework, regular quality checks, etc.

None of these business schools who continue to participate in the exchange program if they suspected that my university is not following the agreed standards.

[elkangorito]

I have never taught in a university.

I have, however, taught Mathematics in a Thai High School.

Even though my students were quite ok at English, their ability to solve simple arithmetic (in English & Thai) was abysmal.

Prior to examinations, all students were given a "Rules of Examination" tutorial, which took 2 weeks. Also, a trial examination happened, all of which the Thai teachers opposed. I was asked to "go easy" (which means 'pass') on the students should they not do "so well" (should they not pass).

I refused to abide by such standards. The result was quite simple...the student's marks were "modified" to suit "something or somebody". In other words, all the students passed. "My" examination results showed that less than 50% of the students passed. "Thai" examination results showed that all students passed.

What can I say but TIT. This is their country. If they wish to screw it up, be it on their own heads.

International schools are hopefully always a lot different to this abovementioned disgusting method of education.