Why Christian Religion Always Collides With Buddhism.

[camerata]

Most Japanese, for example, consider themselves Buddhists and marry in a Buddhist ceremony, yet somethng like 6% of the country classifies itself as truly religious.

I get the point but you've got things a bit mixed up with Japan. Most Japanese have a Shinto or Christian-style wedding, but a Buddhist funeral. They also pay huge sums of money for a "Buddhist name" after death.

[rockyysdt]

Buddhism as a philosophy has many attributes which are complimentary and reflected in Christian ideals. However Buddhism as it is practiced by the masses in Thailand is entirely at odds with both Christian theology and with much of Buddhism as well. It is Animism dressed up to look like Buddhism.The relentless fascination with the supernatural (ghosts, demons, and luck) that makes it a belief system of its own.

The deal breaker between the two traditional systems is: in Christianity the believers come to realize that they cannot achieve their own salvation. In Buddhism, salvation is the responsibility of the individual.

There are many instances of meditation, silent retreat, & contemplation by several biblical characters including Moses, Jesus & Paul.

The early Christian church is steeped in contemplative practice.

Jacob Boehme a 17th century Christian who practiced retreats reported that he saw & knew the being of all things. He wrote this imaginary dialogue to capture his inspiration.

Scholar: How may I come to the super sensual life, that I may see God & hear him speak?

Master: When thou canst throw thyself but for a moment into that where no creature dwelleth, then thou hearest what God speaketh.

Scholar: Is that near at hand or far off?

Master: It is in thee, and if thou canst for awhile cease from all thy thinking & willing, thou shalt hear unspeakable words of God.

Scholar: How can I hear when I stand still from thinking & willing?

Master: When thou standest still from thinking & willing of self, the eternal hearing, seeing, & speaking will be revealed to thee, and so God heareth & seeth through thee. Thine own hearing, seeing, & willing, hindereth thee, that thou dost not see nor hear God.

Scholar: Wherewithal shall I see & hear God, being He is above nature & creature?

Master: When thou are quiet or silent, then thou art that which God was before nature & creature, and whereof He made thy nature & creature. Then thou hearest and seest with that therewith God saw and heard in thee before thy own willing, seeing, & hearing began.

I think experiencing God is also the responsibility of the individual.

Whether there is God or not doesn't really matter.

It's all down to interpretation & packaging & can only be answered through personal self experience.

Some quotes from another 17th century mystic - the Polish Bishop Angelus Silesius:

I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He cannot above me nor I beneath him be.

(Speaking of the Soul) A spark without its fire, a drop without its sea,

Without reincarnation what more, pray, wouldst thou be?

God, who made all the world and may destroy it too,

Cannot without my will make my rebirth come true.

I know that God no hour without myself can live.

If I die, God himself his precious life must give.

Thanks Xangsamhua

The poem you quote fits into the Buddhist model of no God.

I suppose Jacob Boehme's poem illustrates several things to me.

a. Our inability to comprehend what God really is.

b. There may be many paths to enlightenment.

c. Expressing God as a being may be due to mans inability to comprehend the infinite.

d. God may be another way of expressing nirvana.

All these things are beyond comprehension without enlightenment.

Although Christianity maybe way off the mark I'll no longer be attached to such thoughts preferring to observe this faith along with many others with an open mind.

Especially the parts which encourage humility, generosity, charity & love.

Edited July 14, 2009 by rockyysdt

[phetaroi]

Rocky, could you site for me where Buddha ever said that there was no God?

[Datsun240Z]

Rocky, could you site for me where Buddha ever said that there was no God?

I believe wikipedia says it.

[mauGR1]

Rocky, could you site for me where Buddha ever said that there was no God?

I believe wikipedia says it.

From what i heard He never said that,just that is impossible to demonstrate whether God exists or not.

[camerata]

In the Buddha's time the Creator God was called Brahma. As sabaijai pointed out in another topic, the Buddha had this to say about him:

"Every living being dwells in one of thirty-one distinct "planes", of which our familiar human plane is but one. Some of these realms are home to beings (the devas) with unusual powers and extraordinarily subtle and refined physical bodies -- or even no body at all. Their god-like status is, however, short-lived; like all living beings, they are mortal and ultimately subject to death and rebirth in other planes according to the purity and skillfulness of their actions (kamma). One of these devas, the Great Brahma, is so clouded by his own delusion that he believes himself to be the all-powerful, all-seeing creator of the universe."

-- Digha Nikaya v11

[rgs2001uk]

Buddhism as a philosophy has many attributes which are complimentary and reflected in Christian ideals. However Buddhism as it is practiced by the masses in Thailand is entirely at odds with both Christian theology and with much of Buddhism as well. It is Animism dressed up to look like Buddhism.The relentless fascination with the supernatural (ghosts, demons, and luck) that makes it a belief system of its own.

The deal breaker between the two traditional systems is: in Christianity the believers come to realize that they cannot achieve their own salvation. In Buddhism, salvation is the responsibility of the individual.

There are many instances of meditation, silent retreat, & contemplation by several biblical characters including Moses, Jesus & Paul.

The early Christian church is steeped in contemplative practice.

Jacob Boehme a 17th century Christian who practiced retreats reported that he saw & knew the being of all things. He wrote this imaginary dialogue to capture his inspiration.

Scholar: How may I come to the super sensual life, that I may see God & hear him speak?

Master: When thou canst throw thyself but for a moment into that where no creature dwelleth, then thou hearest what God speaketh.

Scholar: Is that near at hand or far off?

Master: It is in thee, and if thou canst for awhile cease from all thy thinking & willing, thou shalt hear unspeakable words of God.

Scholar: How can I hear when I stand still from thinking & willing?

Master: When thou standest still from thinking & willing of self, the eternal hearing, seeing, & speaking will be revealed to thee, and so God heareth & seeth through thee. Thine own hearing, seeing, & willing, hindereth thee, that thou dost not see nor hear God.

Scholar: Wherewithal shall I see & hear God, being He is above nature & creature?

Master: When thou are quiet or silent, then thou art that which God was before nature & creature, and whereof He made thy nature & creature. Then thou hearest and seest with that therewith God saw and heard in thee before thy own willing, seeing, & hearing began.

I think experiencing God is also the responsibility of the individual.

Whether there is God or not doesn't really matter.

It's all down to interpretation & packaging & can only be answered through personal self experience.

Some quotes from another 17th century mystic - the Polish Bishop Angelus Silesius:

I am like God and God like me. I am as large as God. He is as small as I. He cannot above me nor I beneath him be.

(Speaking of the Soul) A spark without its fire, a drop without its sea,

Without reincarnation what more, pray, wouldst thou be?

God, who made all the world and may destroy it too,

Cannot without my will make my rebirth come true.

I know that God no hour without myself can live.

If I die, God himself his precious life must give.

Thanks Xangsamhua

The poem you quote fits into the Buddhist model of no God.

I suppose Jacob Boehme's poem illustrates several things to me.

a. Our inability to comprehend what God really is.

b. There may be many paths to enlightenment.

c. Expressing God as a being may be due to mans inability to comprehend the infinite.

d. God may be another way of expressing nirvana.

All these things are beyond comprehension without enlightenment.

Although Christianity maybe way off the mark I'll no longer be attached to such thoughts preferring to observe this faith along with many others with an open mind.

Especially the parts which encourage humility, generosity, charity & love.

Anyone who has studied the Gnostics will see exactly where the Bishop was coming from, I wouldnt call the Bishop a mystic, informed more like.

Know yea not that you are Gods.

[bonobo]

Most Japanese, for example, consider themselves Buddhists and marry in a Buddhist ceremony, yet somethng like 6% of the country classifies itself as truly religious.

I get the point but you've got things a bit mixed up with Japan. Most Japanese have a Shinto or Christian-style wedding, but a Buddhist funeral. They also pay huge sums of money for a "Buddhist name" after death.

 Yes, you are correct. Having lived in Japan for a number of years, I was reflecting the commonly held feeling that Shinto and Buddhism are basically one-in-the-same when they are really different with only some aspects of one being adopted by the other.

And having pointed out the difference between "catholic" and "Roman Catholic" earlier, I should have been more exacting in m post.

Thanks.