Baan Nork

[RAZZELL]

I understand "baan nork" means something along the lines of "coming from country", "rural" or "out in the sticks"

But is it rude to call someone "baan nork"?

Does it mean something like "country bumkin" ?

RAZZ

[agent69]

Sort of rude.

And definitely rude if you directed to an individual.

Use "คนต่างจังหวัด" instead. Or just "ต่างจังหวัด" if you're referring to anywhere outside of Bangkok or large cities of provinces.

[agent69]

in the additional to that, if the country people said it themselves it is sort of acceptable.

It's like racist remarks. It's sort of okay when people of that race making the remark themselves.

[Groongthep]

Does it mean something like "country bumkin" ?

Yes, when referring to an individual that is exactly what it means. Its not a terrible insult but certainly not complimentary either. It would depend on the context and situation in which it is used as to whether or not someone would take offense to being called this.

[sk1max]

Does it mean something like "country bumkin" ?

Yes, when referring to an individual that is exactly what it means. Its not a terrible insult but certainly not complimentary either. It would depend on the context and situation in which it is used as to whether or not someone would take offense to being called this.

Young people use this term when someone is a bit out of date, for instance if you've never heard of 'Girl Generation' you may hear Baan Nork or if you cell phone doesn't have GPRS, they use it as a friendly tease.

[Tod Daniels]

I believe the true meaning is carried by the context of the statement the word is used in. In that regard it is much like all the 'questionably suspect' words in the thai language used every day by thais. The context carries far more meaning than the actual word itself which ranges from an observation of where a person comes from to the outright disparaging "hillbilly" meaning.

From the Thai-language website here are the applicable definitions;

บ้านนอก; (noun) - country; countryside; rural area; upcountry

บ้านนอก; (adjective) - [of the countryside] rural; bucolic; rural; rustic; agricultural; country; pastoral; sylvan; [vulgar, disparaging expression] uncivilized; uncouth; boorish; coarse; philistine; uncultivated; uneducated

As you see it can carry a far more negative meaning in the adjective form, but I stand by my initial statement, context is everything.

As other posters mentioned; I too have heard it when the meaning is more like “old fashioned", or "not up with the latest trend". However it is usually spoken by thais many, many years my junior, and being 50 years old, I'd never use it that way.

I look at บ้านนอก and it's more p/c counterpart คนต่างจังหวัด much the same as I do the word ฝรั่ง (a word I NEVER EVER use except of course with the fruit) and it's p/c counterpart ชาวต่างชาติ..

[aanon]

I believe the true meaning is carried by the context of the statement the word is used in. In that regard it is much like all the 'questionably suspect' words in the thai language used every day by thais. The context carries far more meaning than the actual word itself which ranges from an observation of where a person comes from to the outright disparaging "hillbilly" meaning.

From the Thai-language website here are the applicable definitions;

บ้านนอก; (noun) - country; countryside; rural area; upcountry

บ้านนอก; (adjective) - [of the countryside] rural; bucolic; rural; rustic; agricultural; country; pastoral; sylvan; [vulgar, disparaging expression] uncivilized; uncouth; boorish; coarse; philistine; uncultivated; uneducated

As you see it can carry a far more negative meaning in the adjective form, but I stand by my initial statement, context is everything.

As other posters mentioned; I too have heard it when the meaning is more like "old fashioned", or "not up with the latest trend". However it is usually spoken by thais many, many years my junior, and being 50 years old, I'd never use it that way.

I look at บ้านนอก and it's more p/c counterpart คนต่างจังหวัด much the same as I do the word ฝรั่ง (a word I NEVER EVER use except of course with the fruit) and it's p/c counterpart ชาวต่างชาติ..

Like most farangs I went through a stage of hating the word but that has long since passed and I happily use it when it fits what I'm trying to say. I'd only really avoid it now around those who are likely to be offended. ชาวต่างชาติ is a great word but doesn't convey the same meaning as ฝรั่ง. Sorry, off thread...

[withnail]

Being younger than Tod, my girlfriend and I often refer to things as being บ้านนอก in the sense of being out of date. My experience is that although it is certainly often meant to be derogatory it is frequently followed by laughter i.e. context dictates how strongly it is derogatory. I did use it once the other day actually to refer to something (can't remember what) in front of someone who arguably fitted the classification themselves. The conversation went like this:

Me: baan nork ley That's really out of date.

Her: mai chawp baan nawk lor You don't like (the country) no?

Notice that the source of amusement here is that we're using the two different uses. She smiled when she said this with a kind of fake anger like I was being derogatory towards the countryside in general.

Now some people of course probably would take offense here but I think that would be more likely if I was actually referring to her or say her home town, rather than something just out of date or if it were a complete stranger.

[ElZorro]

The polite non-offensive alternative is ชนบท (chonnabot : rural areas)

คนชนบท is used in the news and in parliament to refer to the people who live in rural areas.

[RAZZELL]

Thanks for the replies

I guess like a lot of languages, and especially Thai, it's about the context a word is used

RAZZ

[bannork]

There's that funny morlam\ country song from a few months back by..... Lard Prao? making fun of upcountry, men' drinking Thai whisky' etc, the word bannork must appear about 200 times in that song. it's all lighthearted.

I remember Sunari Ratchasima's song from about 15 years ago, I forget the title but it had the line' you bannork khong rao deekwa;- better to live upcountry, (people more honest and caring).

She has a great voice and still looks stunning.

[DavidHouston]

Does the same duality exist with respect to the term "ชาวบ้าน"? In modern parlance it is most often used in a highly positive sense as "the common man" or "village neighbors". In some contexts, might it have the same derogatory meaning as "คนบ้านนอก" or "คนชนบท" or "ไร้เดียงสา"?

Thanks.

[kriswillems]

I think that ชาวบ้าน always has a positive or neutral meaning. As you say the meaning is different from คนบ้านนอก. It means fellow villagers or just villagers or fellow countrymen (as in ชาวบ้านไทยทุกคน).

คนชนบท is the neutral word for คนบ้านนอก. I don't think it has such a bad connotation.

ไร้เดียงสา just means (too) innocents or childish, but it could also be said about some city people or children.

[Tod Daniels]

I have also heard the term คนติดดิน used quite a lot as meaning the “common man”, (person stuck to the ground). Often times people use it about themselves or others with a sense of pride, as in not being hi-so, or pretentious.

[withnail]

I have also heard the term คนติดดิน used quite a lot as meaning the “common man”, (person stuck to the ground). Often times people use it about themselves or others with a sense of pride, as in not being hi-so, or pretentious.

I always thought "down to earth" was a good translation of this.

[kriswillems]

I have also heard the term คนติดดิน used quite a lot as meaning the “common man”, (person stuck to the ground). Often times people use it about themselves or others with a sense of pride, as in not being hi-so, or pretentious.

I think it means unpretentious (like you said Tod) or down to earth (like withnail said).

In my language (Dutch) the "common man" would be the "highest common denominator" or the average of all people. It's not so much about pretension.

I found the following words for "common man"

ปุถุชน

โลกียชน

ฺีฺBut I don't these words are talking language. I think most just use "คนทั่วไป" for "most people" or "the common man".

Edited July 16, 2009 by kriswillems

[Macx]

Only when you say it twice while pointing at the person

That never fails to earn me a punch in the stomach when I do it to the girlfriend.

[Groongthep]

I have also heard the term คนติดดิน used quite a lot as meaning the “common man”, (person stuck to the ground). Often times people use it about themselves or others with a sense of pride, as in not being hi-so, or pretentious.

I think it means unpretentious (like you said Tod) or down to earth (like withnail said).

In my language (Dutch) the "common man" would be the "highest common denominator" or the average of all people. It's not so much about pretension.

I found the following words for "common man"

ปุถุชน

โลกียชน

ฺีฺBut I don't these words are talking language. I think most just use "คนทั่วไป" for "most people" or "the common man".

I am not as proficient at the language as most of you guys but I have always felt that ---ทั่วไป translated better as "average" as in คนทั่วไป "the average person" or รถทั่วไป "the average (regular, common or run-of-the-mill) car".

Also, a term I have often heard that is similar to คนติดดิน is a คนที่เดินดินกินข้าวแกง. Literally a person who "walks the ground and eats khaow gang" which I have always taken to mean a down to earth regular working class guy.

[SoftWater]

I've always had trouble with ท่ัวไป - in context the meaning is usually clear, but I've never been too happy about how to translate it as a singular concept into English.

I'd be more inclined to use คนธรรมดา for 'the average person'

คนทั่วไป I would think of as something like 'people everywhere' or 'people all over (Thailand)'.

Edited July 17, 2009 by SoftWater

[kriswillems]

ทั่วไป :

From thai2english:

[ ADJ ] general ; common ; ordinary ; universal

[ ADV ] in general ; all over ; generally

I also struggled with this word, probably because it has so many meanings.

[DavidHouston]

Thank you all for that excellent discussion. Here are some examples of usage of the phrase "คนทั่วไป" in the contemporary press:

ปัญหาเกิดจากความเชื่อถือในใบปริญญาของคนทั่วไปว่า จะช่วยทำให้หางานทำได้ง่ายขึ้น (Matichon 12 November 2007)

The problem arises from the belief of those who hold (academic) degrees that having the degree will help them find a job more easily.

คนทั่วไปทั้งในสมัยกรีกโบราณและในปัจจุบันที่อยู่ภายใต้ระบบเศรษฐกิจที่มีการใช้เงินตราแลกเปลี่ยน ย่อมสงสัยว่า จะเป็นไปได้อย่างไรที่จะขายของไปแล้ว ไม่ได้สิ่งที่เป็นประโยชน์กลับมา (Matichon 26 November 2007)

Both in the times of the ancient Greeks and in today's world, most people who operate in the cash economy wonder why it is that when they sell something (of value) they do not receive something useful in return.

วงดนตรีนี้ไม่ห้อยอยู่บนบันไดชั้นบนเฉยๆ แต่พยายามปลูกฝังรสนิยมการฟังดนตรีแก่เยาวชนและคนทั่วไป (Matichon 21 June 2008)

This orchestra is not content to remain on the upper rungs of the (classical music) ladder, but continues to instill a taste for (quality) music amongst the youth and the common man.

Any corrections would be appreciated. Thanks.

[kriswillems]

ปัญหาเกิดจากความเชื่อถือในใบปริญญาของคนทั่วไปว่า จะช่วยทำให้หางานทำได้ง่ายขึ้น (Matichon 12 November 2007)

The problem arises from the belief of those who hold (academic) degrees that having the degree will help them find a job more easily.

David I think this translation might be not correct.

The problem arises from the "believe in a degree" of ordinary/most people, that it (the degree) can help them find a job more easily.

I hope you understand what I mean, I don't know how to say it in nice English.

Edited July 17, 2009 by kriswillems

[DavidHouston]

ปัญหาเกิดจากความเชื่อถือในใบปริญญาของคนทั่วไปว่า จะช่วยทำให้หางานทำได้ง่ายขึ้น (Matichon 12 November 2007)

The problem arises from the belief of those who hold (academic) degrees that having the degree will help them find a job more easily.

David I think this translation might be not correct.

The problem arises from the "believe in a degree" of ordinary/most people, that it (the degree) can help them find a job more easily.

I hope you understand what I mean, I don't know how to say it in nice English.

Thank you, Kris; I was puzzled too as who which noun the prepositional phrase "ของคนทั่วไป" modifies. If the noun modified is "ใบปริญญา", then the phrase means those who hold degrees. On the other hand, if the noun modified is "ความเชื่อถือ", the phrase means "those who hold the belief" or "those who believe". I assumed that the prepositional phrase modified the closer noun, but I am likely incorrect in that assumption.

"The problem arises from the commonly-held believe that a person who holds a university degree will have an easier time finding a job (than those who do not have a degree)."

Thanks for correcting my understanding.

[Baannok]

There's that funny morlam\ country song from a few months back by..... Lard Prao? making fun of upcountry, men' drinking Thai whisky' etc, the word bannork must appear about 200 times in that song. it's all lighthearted.

I remember Sunari Ratchasima's song from about 15 years ago, I forget the title but it had the line' you bannork khong rao deekwa;- better to live upcountry, (people more honest and caring).

She has a great voice and still looks stunning.

Hello fellow บ้านนอก. The song you're thinking of is สาวลาดพร้าว (Sao Lad Prao) by สาวมาด. Another song by สาวมาด with a similar theme is ดาวมหาลัย (Dow Mahalai). Check them both out on youtube, the videos are great.

[RickBradford]

The สาวลาดพร้าว song is not very complimentary about a great swathe of the country, is it?

อยู่ที่ภาคอีสานบ้านนอก บ้านนอก.

It's like Australians calling all Queenslanders country bumpkins. Er, actually.....

[bannork]

The สาวลาดพร้าว song is not very complimentary about a great swathe of the country, is it?

อยู่ที่ภาคอีสานบ้านนอก บ้านนอก.

It's like Australians calling all Queenslanders country bumpkins. Er, actually.....

In the song ดาวหมาลัย the composer's making fun of the city folks for being helpless, the daughter comes back from Bangkok, and falls off the ridge between the rice fields because she's wearing high heels, she cuts rice wearing a spaghetti top.

The song mocks the urban people for being pretentious.

[Neeranam]

There's that funny morlam\ country song from a few months back by..... Lard Prao? making fun of upcountry, men' drinking Thai whisky' etc, the word bannork must appear about 200 times in that song. it's all lighthearted.

I remember Sunari Ratchasima's song from about 15 years ago, I forget the title but it had the line' you bannork khong rao deekwa;- better to live upcountry, (people more honest and caring).

She has a great voice and still looks stunning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoDyBK9cFvg...feature=related

[Hardie]

I understand "baan nork" means something along the lines of "coming from country", "rural" or "out in the sticks"

But is it rude to call someone "baan nork"?

Does it mean something like "country bumkin" ?

RAZZ

You got it, 'outback' at best, though to refer to people it's 'chao bahn' ('peasant'- long mid flat on the first word or you're looking for a rental).