Farang, When Right Or Wrong.

[Neeranam]

The female menstration cycle starting on a full moon.

Does that make a difference to pmt?

It would explain a lot of things going on in my household if so.

[Ajarn]

The female menstration cycle starting on a full moon.

Does that make a difference to pmt?

It would explain a lot of things going on in my household if so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It can throw off their sense of taste and smell, too, making their cooking not so consistent at times. Some suggest this is the reason why men tend to make the best cooks

Of course, at least wait a few days after such a thought occurs if you want to mention it to your wife

[aaaaaa]

just a small observation....

it seems like in thai language it is normal to refer to someone as if that person isn't present. I even noticed that many use third person for themselves - like my wife when talks to some younger person can say something like "phi wants to buy this and that" as if stressing her being senior I guess - instead of saying "I would like to buy this and that" ....

so may be such things being normal partially explain why they'd use word farang instead of "he" or one's name ?

Edited February 24, 2005 by aaaaaa

[Matts]

I guess you have to accept "rules" when you are in a foreign country,and stick with that,farang or falang or whatever who will give a da..ed.It works for me....

[Savage]

I guess you have to accept "rules" when you are in a foreign country,and stick with that,farang or falang or whatever who will give a da..ed.It works for me....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, no, no. I just don't agree with the above. Would the Pakistani community in London have to accept the rules if we wanted to call them "Pakis"?

I see the situation as that I was in the equivolent of having been called a Pomme by an Aussie. Nothing bad really and no escaping the fact that i'm a "pomme".

But if I was married to an Aussie and her family referred to me as "the pomme" or she referred to me in the 3rd party as "the pomme" then I would get very irritated very fast.

Quite frankly I find it amazing that people out there allow themselves to be referred to by family as the farang... Amazing.

The base line is that essentially it is a racist term. We are not going to get rid of it, I accept this and I also accept that I am a farang and always will be. I will never be Thai and quite frankly have never wished to be or would want to be Thai. But I will never allow myself to be referred to as the farang by family or people who know me. Just because the fans at Millwall FC use the word Nigger doesn't make it right when your in the stadium does it?

Anyway, the problem is solved now as it was only a one off.

[Boon Mee]

Actually, I don't give a flying-&lt;deleted&gt; what they call me so long as they don't call me late for my breakfast noodles!

[Jai Dee]

Thanks for the advise (for the best part). As it turns out I got home tonight and my wife has apologised and admitted she was wrong to say it and she does not know why she did. Anyway, on top of this her sister backed me which is encouraging.

To answer an earlier question. No my wife has never worked in the bar industry and is a succesful business woman, it was completely out of charector.

I believe it was due to a strange phenonemon that only happens (thank god) very irregularly.

The female menstration cycle starting on a full moon.

Just keep your mouth shut if this happens to you!!! 

There you go, even the Thai person involved has agreed it's wrong and rude, and all of you getting called farang in restaurants, sort your wives out! lol.

Alls well that ends well.

Happy endings are cool.

[Simbo]

My wife sometimes (playfully) points at my nose and says 'farang!' and I do the same and say 'Asian!' =- then we laugh. Probably good for you to do the same 

Theres no insult intended when she does it and i find it rather endearing as I know she loves me 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are missing the point by a mile

[csdncer]

just a small observation....

it seems like in thai language it is normal to refer to someone as if that person isn't present. I even noticed that many use third person for themselves - like my wife when talks to some younger person can say something like "phi wants to buy this and that" as if stressing her being senior I guess - instead of saying "I would like to buy this and that" ....

so may be such things being normal partially explain why they'd use word farang instead of "he" or one's name ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although I do not believe it is polite to use farang in referring to someone you know, I wanted to affirm that it is common for Thais and southeast asians to speak in third person while having a conversation. "I" most often will be placed by their name and "you" will be replaced by the name of whoever he/she is speaking about. Not always, but it occurs frequently enough.

e.g. "I love you" most often is said with "[your name] rak [his/her name]"

[luckyfarang]

Very disrespectful if she was using it in the third person. You should be upset.

My wife always uses khun before my name in public(and private), which I know is to make me feel good, but showing respect. Other family members call me pee or khun.

All my friends who are married to Thais are also referred to as khun. Any well brought up Thais do this, whether or not they are educated or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, being called farang by your wife in public is somewhat disrespectful, but I don't think that you should get upset. This would accomplish nothing.

Rather, you should try to look for the reason that they would call you farang.

THAIS ARE EXTREMELY LAZY IN MATTERS OF LANGUAGE

This is made obvious by their frequent use of abbreviations, their dropping of any unnecessary words in a sentence, especially proper names and pronouns, and their obsession with finding the shortest way to say something.

Talking alot is considered a character flaw among Thais, as evidenced by the Thai insult "Pood mak".

Among rural and uneducated Thais, calling a westerner "farang" (when he is not present) is ubiquitous, and generally means no disrespect. For them, it is one less name to remember, eliminates the risk of mispronouncing the farang's name, and leaves no doubt to whom he is referring if there is only one farang in the vicinity.

I do this myself, as it is simple, sounds natural to the Thais, and is an easy habit to form.

Even if the farang is within earshot, as long as it is not said to his face, there is no intentional rudeness, and not even the assumption that the farang could understand what was being said.

For educated or urban Thais, calling a westerner "farang" could under some circumstances be construed as derogatory, racist or elitist.

Another habit that is easily formed is referring to both Asians or farang as "man" (it). I do this myself when speaking with close friends only. But I would never do this to someone's face or allow a stranger or other than a close friend to hear this. And I would never refer to a close family member, respected friend or elder, priest or royal family member as such.

Some here would say that referring to anyone as "man" is automatically extremely rude, since that is the way Thais refer to animals. I would disagree.

Often, "man" just indicates slight annoyance (on the speaker's part), not the intention to be derogatory. Again, laziness enters into its usage. The pronoun "kow" just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily as "man", and using it is an easy habit to form. I'm not saying that it is a high class form of speaking, just that it is widely used and not necessarily derogatory.

<<<Other family members call me pee or khun.>>>

If family members are calling you "pee" to your face, I would say that you have been well accepted into the family. If they referred to you in the third person as "pee", I think that would create a lot of confusion about to whom they were referring, which is part of the reason that they would refer to you as "farang" when you were not present, so that they would be easily understood.

If they are calling you "Khun John", this is obviously highly respectful to you, but would indicate to me that you have not been as fully accepted into the family.

Also, it would depend on how easy your proper name is for Thai people to pronounce. If it is difficult, they would avoid using it.

In my case, my first name is quite difficult for Thais to pronounce, but my surname is extremely easy for them to remember and pronounce. So close friends and family began using my surname, or an abbreviation of my surname. Acquaintances and less close friends call me by Khun (Surname).

Politeness in the Thai language is highly situational, dependent upon who is speaking, who is listening, whom is being referred to, whether or not they are present, and other factors.

[chanchao]

Brilliant post LuckyFarang!!! Totally sums it up!

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Shola]

Brilliant post LuckyFarang!!!  Totally sums it up!

Cheers,

Chanchao

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

[HarryHacker]

Without doubt it is annoying. I'm the only Farang out of 200 where I work and for sure it means they are talking about me, good or bad. Yes we have to bend as it’s 'their' country but at the end of the day, that is why Thailand is still developing rather than a developed country. It still has to grow up as a nation. As has been pointed out, the more educated and traveled, normally the Thai-Chinese will never use that expression.

In the UK 'negative' terms are of the past, nigs, &lt;deleted&gt;, pakis.....and so on, can not and must not be used. At some point in the future 'Farang' will not be used, maybe it will take another 10 years or so.

[chanchao]

> At some point in the future 'Farang' will not be used,

> maybe it will take another 10 years or so.

I would dread that day... firstly because political correctness will have become a required thing in Thailand, and secondly because by that time "Farang" will then obviously be perceived as a negative, thus necessitating avoidance of the word..

At that time, hopefully in the very distant future, one will travel upcountry to a small village up Isarn, and children will smile and point, shouting "Khon thaang chaat tawan tok, Khon thaan chaat tawan tok!!!"..

Or maybe, they will just remain quiet.....

Whatever will be the case, I'm NOT looking forward to that Thailand.

[HarryHacker]

>  At some point in the future 'Farang' will not be used,

> maybe it will take another 10 years or so.

I would dread that day... firstly because political correctness will have become a required thing in Thailand, and secondly because by that time "Farang" will then obviously be perceived as a negative, thus necessitating avoidance of the word.. 

At that time, hopefully in the very distant future, one will travel upcountry to a small village up Isarn, and children will smile and point, shouting "Khon thaang chaat tawan tok, Khon thaan chaat tawan tok!!!"..

Or maybe, they will just remain quiet..... 

Whatever will be the case, I'm NOT looking forward to that Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn’t that like saying 'keep them uneducated'?

Furthermore, don't confuse PC with racism.

Edited February 25, 2005 by HarryHacker

[chanchao]

> Isn’t that like saying 'keep them uneducated'?

No.

I wasn't too impressed by you implying that this is because Thais in general are still uneducated, compared to the smarter people in the West. So I didn't dwell on it but posted what I posted instead, hoping people would read between the lines.

I'll grant you the PC thing though. But when it comes to respecting peoples of different backgrounds I think it's many western countries that need to grow up.

[HarryHacker]

> Isn’t that like saying 'keep them uneducated'?

No. 

I wasn't too impressed by you implying that this is because Thais in general are still uneducated, compared to the smarter people in the West.  So I didn't dwell on it but posted what I posted instead, hoping people would read between the lines.

I'll grant you the PC thing though.   But when it comes to respecting peoples of different backgrounds I think it's many western countries that need to grow up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Impressed with me or not surely you can't argue this IS all about education, the education of life, experience and respect?

[Doctor John]

At some point in the future 'Farang' will not be used, maybe it will take another 10 years or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope not, I like being a farang, it's what I am, I call myself a Farang.

And as for educated Thai Chinese not using the word Farang, that's &lt;deleted&gt;.

[HarryHacker]

And as for educated Thai Chinese not using the word  Farang, that's &lt;deleted&gt;.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

&lt;deleted&gt;? That word is a privilege for over the 500s I guess......we can't use it down here!

Edited February 25, 2005 by HarryHacker

[gburns57au]

Touched on previously and then left alone due to the joking nature of the post.

If they use farang among rellies and friends I would say something....but when she is talking to a stranger who doesnt know your name, why would she use your name.....If she said "david wants dessert" the waiter may just ask "who is David"

Why confuse people....

Simple Thai logic....

The experts have failed...

[srisatch]

Very disrespectful if she was using it in the third person. You should be upset.

My wife always uses khun before my name in public(and private), which I know is to make me feel good, but showing respect. Other family members call me pee or khun.

All my friends who are married to Thais are also referred to as khun. Any well brought up Thais do this, whether or not they are educated or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, being called farang by your wife in public is somewhat disrespectful, but I don't think that you should get upset. This would accomplish nothing.

Rather, you should try to look for the reason that they would call you farang.

THAIS ARE EXTREMELY LAZY IN MATTERS OF LANGUAGE

This is made obvious by their frequent use of abbreviations, their dropping of any unnecessary words in a sentence, especially proper names and pronouns, and their obsession with finding the shortest way to say something.

Talking alot is considered a character flaw among Thais, as evidenced by the Thai insult "Pood mak".

Among rural and uneducated Thais, calling a westerner "farang" (when he is not present) is ubiquitous, and generally means no disrespect. For them, it is one less name to remember, eliminates the risk of mispronouncing the farang's name, and leaves no doubt to whom he is referring if there is only one farang in the vicinity.

I do this myself, as it is simple, sounds natural to the Thais, and is an easy habit to form.

Even if the farang is within earshot, as long as it is not said to his face, there is no intentional rudeness, and not even the assumption that the farang could understand what was being said.

For educated or urban Thais, calling a westerner "farang" could under some circumstances be construed as derogatory, racist or elitist.

Another habit that is easily formed is referring to both Asians or farang as "man" (it). I do this myself when speaking with close friends only. But I would never do this to someone's face or allow a stranger or other than a close friend to hear this. And I would never refer to a close family member, respected friend or elder, priest or royal family member as such.

Some here would say that referring to anyone as "man" is automatically extremely rude, since that is the way Thais refer to animals. I would disagree.

Often, "man" just indicates slight annoyance (on the speaker's part), not the intention to be derogatory. Again, laziness enters into its usage. The pronoun "kow" just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily as "man", and using it is an easy habit to form. I'm not saying that it is a high class form of speaking, just that it is widely used and not necessarily derogatory.

<<<Other family members call me pee or khun.>>>

If family members are calling you "pee" to your face, I would say that you have been well accepted into the family. If they referred to you in the third person as "pee", I think that would create a lot of confusion about to whom they were referring, which is part of the reason that they would refer to you as "farang" when you were not present, so that they would be easily understood.

If they are calling you "Khun John", this is obviously highly respectful to you, but would indicate to me that you have not been as fully accepted into the family.

Also, it would depend on how easy your proper name is for Thai people to pronounce. If it is difficult, they would avoid using it.

In my case, my first name is quite difficult for Thais to pronounce, but my surname is extremely easy for them to remember and pronounce. So close friends and family began using my surname, or an abbreviation of my surname. Acquaintances and less close friends call me by Khun (Surname).

Politeness in the Thai language is highly situational, dependent upon who is speaking, who is listening, whom is being referred to, whether or not they are present, and other factors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1.THAIS ARE EXTREMELY LAZY IN MATTERS OF LANGUAGE

What nonsense.

Thais are no more lazy than anyone else when it comes to speaking/language. All languages when they are spoken colloquially are used in abbreviated/short versions That is one of the explanations for the widespread use of English..that it is a language that can can accommodate all kinds of 'shorthand' ways of expression. It is also why Thais have such difficulty in speaking English as the very elliptical and compressed structure of Thai makes it difficult to understand the inflections mof English.

Thai is in no way an 'inferior' language beacause there is a tendency to condense or not elaborate the articulation of thought. Same as Chinese.

2..Some here would say that referring to anyone as "man" is automatically extremely

rude, since that is the way Thais refer to animals. I would disagree.

I just think you are wrong. Everyone I know says that unless it is joking with kids or real slang among friends 'man' is rude

Somewhere else I asked the Q is my kid, a luk khreung, a farang.....The answer is it seems to me YES and the interpretation is that anyone not Thai is a farang...and however innocuous its use may be by unthinking people that is the same Lazy use of language as any other trite caregorisation

I agree 'Farang' is probably just a lazy shorthand for most people. I have tried using the 'Thai girl would like some SomTam' trick...Very cross Thai.

3 . 'Poot mahk' has nothing to do with the use of language. It is to do with speaking in situations where it would be better, in Thai opinion, to be silent.

Edited February 25, 2005 by srisatch

[Nam Kao]

If my wife called me that I'd take out back for a good ole Thai fashion shallacking

[konangrit]

Brilliant post LuckyFarang!!!  Totally sums it up!

Cheers,

Chanchao

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too, excellent post. You should post more often

[jackr]

Touched on previously and then left alone due to the joking nature of the post.

If they use farang among rellies and friends I would say something....but when she is talking to a stranger who doesnt know your name, why would she use your name.....If she said "david wants dessert" the waiter may just ask "who is David"

Why confuse people....

Simple Thai logic....

The experts have failed...  

Then she should be saying sami or faen. I bet when he's in his country in a restaurant with his missus he doesn't say 'the Thai would like some dessert!'

[Jai Dee]

A nice example of too many ##### mods spoiling the broth is Boos and Tuls intervention here on this thread!

Jai yen yen Prof... you're starting to sound like a stuck record.

*quote edited for taste (cv)*

Edited February 26, 2005 by cdnvic

[sakaew]

To go back to basics.....it seems to me that the wife verbally rejected her husband..and instead identified herself as a Thai..and HIM as a falang...by her choice of words.

She did not want to be identified as the wife of a falang.

Why she would want to consciously move away from him with a comment absolutely guaranteed to upset all but the most intellectually challenged...I don't know.

And it's not my place to comment on that.

But IF they were fighting.....we all know that many people can say anything in the heat of the moment....regardless of whether or not we really mean it.

Hurting and wounding seems to be de rigeur in many of these situations.

More's the pity.

And I wouldn't be the first person to suggest that we don't always make clear WHAT is upsetting us, before we let go with both barrels.

Women can be very difficult.

Men too.

Thank God for katoeys (???)

[aletta]

Been living here for fifteen years now and would be very,very upset to be called farang be a familly member.Strangers,no problem as they have no terms of reference for you,but family know your name.

If any children in the family call me farang the elders get very upset.

[gburns57au]

Touched on previously and then left alone due to the joking nature of the post.

If they use farang among rellies and friends I would say something....but when she is talking to a stranger who doesnt know your name, why would she use your name.....If she said "david wants dessert" the waiter may just ask "who is David"

Why confuse people....

Simple Thai logic....

The experts have failed...  

Then she should be saying sami or faen. I bet when he's in his country in a restaurant with his missus he doesn't say 'the Thai would like some dessert!'

no he probably says...She is from Thailand, she doesnt eat dessert...same same but different.

We dont always identify our partners status to strangers.....even in our civilised and politically correct western countries. InThailand we are a farang....get used to it or go back to your home countries

[jackr]

Touched on previously and then left alone due to the joking nature of the post.

If they use farang among rellies and friends I would say something....but when she is talking to a stranger who doesnt know your name, why would she use your name.....If she said "david wants dessert" the waiter may just ask "who is David"

Why confuse people....

Simple Thai logic....

The experts have failed...  

Then she should be saying sami or faen. I bet when he's in his country in a restaurant with his missus he doesn't say 'the Thai would like some dessert!'

no he probably says...She is from Thailand, she doesnt eat dessert...same same but different.

We dont always identify our partners status to strangers.....even in our civilised and politically correct western countries. InThailand we are a farang....get used to it or go back to your home countries

The old "if you don't like it..." drivel. Sickening

[maitembot]

no he probably says...She is from Thailand, she doesnt eat dessert...same same but different.

We dont always identify our partners status to strangers.....even in our civilised and politically correct western countries. InThailand we are a farang....get used to it or go back to your home countries

You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't always get the bar out of the girl, right gb?

You're right. Some guys will just have to continue accept it.