Thai Gf Parents Want Money Cos We Are "engaged" - We Are Not

[thaihome]

For goodness sake, try to understand the culture here.

For goodness sake, try not to give in to a money grabbing scam.

Dump the girl.

Or tell the parents, and the girl, to wait till you are married, and then you will gladly pay some money every month for the parents, being a good son in law.

They are living together. I bet she refers to him to her friends and family as “husband”.

TH

[Bjorn]

Don't bother giving them ANY money, not even after you get married. I'm myself married here in Thailand, and gave absolutely nothing. I just informed them that my "farang custom" is that we do not give any money. Also informed them (not relly correct, I admit) that normally the parents of the wife should take all the "costs". After that, no problem whatsoever....

[donkieboy]

lie to the inlaws is no worse than them asking you for money

[james24]

In England wifes parents are supposed to pay for the wedding, lol would be great if that happened here.

Edited August 7, 2009 by james24

[KireB]

Sin sod= family + income security

Sin sod = tradition and culture

Sin sod = If you love me you pay, or swallow your pride

Farang = cannot own land

Farang = cannot vote

Farang = no part of Thai culture and society, not now, not ever

Farang = no sin sod, matter of principle

Its very easy, isnt!

If she loves you, she'll understand and if she does, and you get married, you can always help the family out.

Edited August 7, 2009 by KireB

[Garry9999]

"Please read this first" http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-Expl...ion-t85581.html

[bangla]

If she loves you, she'll understand and if she does, and you get married, you can always help the family out.

that's a very western point of view.

thai men also pay sinsot.

sinsot is being paid in other countries as well, not only in thailand.

not long ago it was a normal thing in western countries as well.

still many farang see sinsot as a scam to part them from their money.

is it an ego thing? i wonder..

[KireB]

If she loves you, she'll understand and if she does, and you get married, you can always help the family out.

that's a very western point of view.

thai men also pay sinsot.

sinsot is being paid in other countries as well, not only in thailand.

not long ago it was a normal thing in western countries as well.

still many farang see sinsot as a scam to part them from their money.

is it an ego thing? i wonder..

I dont see Sinsod as a scam, but as a Thai-Thai cultural value.

We are in mixed relationships, with mixed values and our own set of difficulties.

Thai men can buy a house and a rai of land and put that on their name. Nice for later!

Thai men dont have to worry about their visa status.

Thai men can vote, etc...

We cant.

You call it an ego thing, I call it principles.

Stick to them, if you dare.

It will benefit you on the long run.

Stick to your values, as much as your wife tries to stick to hers and find balance in what you both want.

Sinsod sounds to most of us, like buying a mailorder bride.

There are other ways of taking care of your new family.

Invest in health care, business, schooling of family members, family saving schemes, what ever and absolutely your responsibility.

You marry a family yes , but you dont marry a culture!

And if your new wife, or her family,does not understand that, than why did she choose to be part of a mixed relationship?

She had a choice as well you know!

On the other side of this coin: do you really think that if let's say a Thai factory worker, or farmer, or shop employee, from Nakhom Pathom marries with a foreign girl, that her family will receive a dowry?

I know a few farang ladies, who got married to a Thai and never received a sinsod.

What about cultural values now? I am petty sure that most Thai families would reason that in a mixed relationship, there are mixed cultural perspectives and that therefor a payment is not necessary.

Edited August 7, 2009 by KireB

[james24]

Totally agree

[robblok]

If she loves you, she'll understand and if she does, and you get married, you can always help the family out.

that's a very western point of view.

thai men also pay sinsot.

sinsot is being paid in other countries as well, not only in thailand.

not long ago it was a normal thing in western countries as well.

still many farang see sinsot as a scam to part them from their money.

is it an ego thing? i wonder..

Your kind of sin sod where it is only used for the wedding cost and you got the rest back is how it used to be. But now it is used as a money grabbing sceme where the farang sometimes pays millions and never sees a penny back.

I told you before its a big grey area.

Also my point of view is that in a mixed relation there are two cultures and the Thai culture in this case does not always have to win.

[Geekfreaklover]

Some foreign guys choose to marry a Thai woman that has been married before. In doing so the sin sod rule is ruled out. Most foreigners that come to thailand have had a girlfriend or wife before, so it makes sense to meet someone who has had a sexual partner before.

If you are a man wanting a virgin bride (to me sounds a bit wrong) fair enough pay the dowry, which should be returned to the married couple.

Personally I find divorcees more mature, sexually aware and better company. Maybe thats just me.

[Arkady]

For goodness sake, try to understand the culture here.

Agree! This is pretty normal. The poster who said 'your living together in their eyes this is married' is right on.

Also realize that 'married' here can have many configurations:

- Thai traditional wedding ceremony without official registration at the lcoal government office.

- Thai traditional wedding ceremony with official registration at the lcoal government office.

- Official registration at the local government office, and perhaps no traditional ceremony or no party

- Just a party.

- Living together.

Also realize that they don't know the customs from your home country and regardless of this point they expect you to observe and respect local practices.

Also realize that the family may privately put your gf under some pretty heavy pressure. And don't think she might cut away from them for you, that's very very unlikely in this culture.

Good luck.

Wedding party actual marriage

It is a good point that the girl's parents don't know the customs in the OP's country which are irrelevant. They only know their own customs and they also know that they need money . In their eyes she is already married to you and you have avoided paying the bill. In villages the village headman can force a pair of teenagers to get married because they have been seen kissing or cuddling.

I think there is a logical way to work this out. First of all you have to accept that you have been served notice by the parents. They seem to have given you quite a lot of space but I would suspect that your g/f has been dealing with this pressure since she moved in with you. Of course she knew what they wanted to talk to you about. If you think you want to marry the girl eventually, you now know that you will have to pay sinsot, as nearly every one marrying a Thai has to. You can play for time and get your g/f to assure them that you will honour the obligation to pay sinsot when you get married but you are not ready yet and understand that sinsot is only paid on marriage. If you don't think you want to marry her, now you know that she is under horrible pressure from her parents to get cash for them and this will get worse and worse the longer you don't pay. In this case, start making plans to cut her loose to find some one that can live up to her parents' expectations. Bear in mind there is also a big face issue here as well the reality that the parents need cash. When friends and family know that the daughter is "married" to a farang, they will openly ask them how much they got in sinsot. It is very humiliating for them and their daughter, if they have no realistic prospect of receiving anything from you.

This is how things are in Thailand, however dischordant it seems to Western sensibilities. There is always the option to go back to Farangland and find a nice girl there who has never heard of sinsot and will proclaim she will pay her way in the marriage - that is until she divorces you and takes your house, your future income and just about everything else you've got. The choice is yours.

[thairay]

lots of conflicting advice here...if you met while drunk in a bar and she spoke good english i would worry about a scam..if you found love in the old way and will stay together forever pay and marry...i must say i have heard more bad stories than good although my wifes parents declared that if she was happy they did not want anything..they had never seen the outside of their distant farm so my culture was completely unknown to them...i now have a daughter here in thailand so can anyone tell me how much i should ask for when she marries someone..i do not know if she will be lovely or a right old cow ..at least here you pay on the way in i wonder how many of you paid on the way out of your last marriage...follow the local custom or not as you see fit....get what you get

[Paddleshifter]

Kasoi, accept all kind of answers when you post up in a free forum like this. People have very different opinions about whats ok or not in this matter.

First, find out if she has been married before or not. If married before dont feel bad about not paying a baht.

If not, 50.000 will be more than enough.

The problem now is as they have shot for 200.000 and gold, they will never be satiesfied with less. You re saying they have not been nice so far. They re kinda quick to show their greed for western money through bad behaviour. Thai families can live for years knowing their daughter has a bf without confronting you like this. This is bad and nasty. Your gf might make you happy, but the rest of this family never will!

They re probably old school dumb fuc_s that doesnt know better and never will. The more remote, the more poor, the less education and you will never gain ,learn or profit from any of them.

What you ll get is trouble comin your way. Its always good to see that your wife or gf family respects you no matter what or where you are in the world. Tell them you re poor and see how wide their smiles are. If they are not happy with their daughter being happy. Fokk this family.

[Paddleshifter]

If she loves you, she'll understand and if she does, and you get married, you can always help the family out.

that's a very western point of view.

thai men also pay sinsot.

sinsot is being paid in other countries as well, not only in thailand.

not long ago it was a normal thing in western countries as well.

still many farang see sinsot as a scam to part them from their money.

is it an ego thing? i wonder..

I dont see Sinsod as a scam, but as a Thai-Thai cultural value.

We are in mixed relationships, with mixed values and our own set of difficulties.

Thai men can buy a house and a rai of land and put that on their name. Nice for later!

Thai men dont have to worry about their visa status.

Thai men can vote, etc...

We cant.

You call it an ego thing, I call it principles.

Stick to them, if you dare.

It will benefit you on the long run.

Stick to your values, as much as your wife tries to stick to hers and find balance in what you both want.

Sinsod sounds to most of us, like buying a mailorder bride.

There are other ways of taking care of your new family.

Invest in health care, business, schooling of family members, family saving schemes, what ever and absolutely your responsibility.

You marry a family yes , but you dont marry a culture!

And if your new wife, or her family,does not understand that, than why did she choose to be part of a mixed relationship?

She had a choice as well you know!

On the other side of this coin: do you really think that if let's say a Thai factory worker, or farmer, or shop employee, from Nakhom Pathom marries with a foreign girl, that her family will receive a dowry?

I know a few farang ladies, who got married to a Thai and never received a sinsod.

What about cultural values now? I am petty sure that most Thai families would reason that in a mixed relationship, there are mixed cultural perspectives and that therefor a payment is not necessary.

Could not been said better. I agree with you 100% as you re spot on!

I can hear the thai family of a thai man marrying a farang girl if they were questioned wether sinsod would be paid or not... The answer: not same not same..!

Edited August 9, 2009 by Paddleshifter

[bangla]

You marry a family yes , but you dont marry a culture!

And if your new wife, or her family,does not understand that, than why did she choose to be part of a mixed relationship?

She had a choice as well you know!

you're only seeing it from your point of view.

she isn't marrying a culture either and you also have a choice not to marry a thai woman.

On the other side of this coin: do you really think that if let's say a Thai factory worker, or farmer, or shop employee, from Nakhom Pathom marries with a foreign girl, that her family will receive a dowry?

I know a few farang ladies, who got married to a Thai and never received a sinsod.

What about cultural values now? I am petty sure that most Thai families would reason that in a mixed relationship, there are mixed cultural perspectives and that therefor a payment is not necessary.

how many farang parents will ask for sinsot?

the thai husband is therefore already adapting to the farang way of getting married.

i know of a thai man who was going to get married with a dutch girl but he kept putting it off.

she tried to find out what was wrong and after a long time the guy confessed it was because he was scared he didn't have enough money for the sinsot

of course the girls parents didn't ask for sinsot .

anyways..

my brother in law paid sinsot.

the husbands of my wife's 3 sisters paid sinsot.

my wife's father paid sinsot.

they're all thai btw.

[Petesear]

I think the whole idea of paying sin sod is rubbish, especially for marriages with mixed traditional values.

I would also worry that a 'poor' family would only waste a sudden windfall of 200k or more thinking that there could be more where that came from.

And, do you not think that 200k is a tad excessive? Would they be asking anywhere near that amount had the 'husband' been a Thai grease monkey?

It strikes me that 'selling' your daughter should no longer be a part of Thai tradition....

[bangla]

LOL

so now you're telling the thai what their traditions should be..

[Petesear]

LOL

so now you're telling the thai what their traditions should be..

No, I am expressing my opinion. I'm not telling the thai anything.

Traditions, even Thai ones, evolve or even disappear..

[ivowatson]

Never paid sinsod because i didn't like the idea and i wasn't sure i would have got the money back. The inlaws didn't really like it, especially the brothers, but never gave me a hard time. Always stayed friendly and polite but nothing more. As i remember now, my wife and i had more than a few arguments but never directly over this. She must have been under some pressure obviously. Now, the house is in the wife's name and occasionally we help out when needed so things are getting better. My wife's cousin married last year and the family paid 250.000 baht. Just normal people with a small rubber plantation so those figures are truelly paid. I remember a case 15 years ago when a (now) friend was asked 100 000 baht by the family of his fiancee and his parents not having that kind of money he went to work in Phuket. After 2 years, he had saved 40 000 and decided to buy a motorbike with the money...

[Canada]

I haven't read all of this thread;there is a lot of it.

My experience is similiar to the OP's. Grandma came over one day and told me I was getting married in one month and the price was 100,000 and 10 baht of gold. I said yeah ok grandma, but I am eating lunch,can we talk later?

Then I got a friend to drive me 40 kms to a bus and got on it.

My gf caught the play, got the drivers phone number, and bribed him to stop.( Funny story in itself) I went home with her, and we talked it out. They felt like they had lost face in the village as we were living in the village. They ended up saying get married when you want to.

I did my research, and found that if you hold a engagement party, show a lot of gold and money, that that would buy me as much time to "test drive" as I wanted. I talked to them about it and they agreed. It would save their face which was what they were concerned about. We did the party....cheap, the guy with the microphone told everyone that the final price was a million, the 100,000 at the party came back the next day, I gave her half the gold. (5 baht).

About 3 months later we ended up getting legally married in the village, it cost 60 baht or so. We moved out of the village, I went home for a couple of months, she pawned the gold, the money from it disappeared, I refused to get it out of pawn and it is now gone. Aside from her, nobody has asked me for a baht since then. We are still together. It's been pretty good since as there are no longer any money issues . I control it.....end of story.

This may be about face, not money. Like it or not, face is more important than money to a lot of Thais.

You are in the position of power as you have the money and Thailand has a lot of beautiful women. Use your negotiating skills. There is nothing written in stone here, aside from what you allow to be written. Be fair, just because we are here, doesn't mean our culuture doesn't count, but we are here so her's counts too.

Good luck

Edited August 9, 2009 by Canada

[Abrak]

As I havent read the whole thread I apologize if I am simply repeating someone elses post.

I dont generally agree with the concept of sinsot and find that most parents simply wish their daughter to be happy and well looked after. However if her parents are really poor and the relationship with the GF was serious I would feel a moral obligation to help them out.

The most effective way of doing this is to give the money - say Bt250,000 - to your GF and explain that it is to help her family for the next say 5 years. Then any requests rest on her shoulder. She can turn down a motorbike or a loan for a piece of land. She can even spend it on shoes. Whatever she does you can claim that you trust her enough to do what is in the best interests of her family.

BTW I have never tried this so I have no idea whether it would work.

[hhgz]

"face is more important than money to a lot of Thais."

From all of the postings I've read: to a lot of Thais, "money" and "face" are the same thing.

[Soutpeel]

The most effective way of doing this is to give the money - say Bt250,000 - to your GF and explain that it is to help her family for the next say 5 years.

BTW I have never tried this so I have no idea whether it would work.

Not....250k spent within a couple of weeks (not 5 years) and the hand will be out for more, and you have already set the precedent, if, Mr Farang can give us 250k, to spend as we wish, then it means he has plenty of money, so he will give it to us again...

The flaw in your cunning plan is.... Thai's generally have no concept of planning for the future, money in the pocket just has to be spent, not put away for a rainy day, so Mr Farangs 250k will be spent on gambling, booze, big screen TV,s etc...

[bangla]

"face is more important than money to a lot of Thais."

and money is more important than face to a lot of farang.

seems like we're not that different after all