Who's A Dirty Old Man?

[Chaimai]

As brasso was the one to make make reference to "Dirty Old Men" in a recent post, he may want to come on and provide his definition.

I believe it is intended as a derogatory term, usually used by females towards same age or older men. I cannot recall any ageing men called other ageing men "Dirty Old Men. "Typical circumstances are when the male is engaged in an activity/relationship that the female disapproves of.

Happened to me and a friend in Walking St. Both of us in our 50's, we had for some inexplicable reason chosen to bar fine 2 girls (who looked about 18) from a go-go bar. As we walked hand in hand (in pairs ), 2 women in at least their late 50's turned to their similarly-aged husbands and said "look at those 2 dirty old men with those young girls".

Pathetic, I know, but my friend and I could not resist a huge grin and a high five !

[Costas2008]

If a man is in his 60s plus and single, again, no one would expect him to give up sex But yes, the term "Dirty old man" probably would be used if he were going out with women (note i say women, not a woman) much younger than him. A man that age who gets a much younger woman as a new long term exclusive partner, will still raise eyebrows (in general) but a man who has multiple relationships with much younger women may get the "dirty old man" label. If he were dating a woman 10-20 years younger then again, not likely to raise an eyebrow so much.

If it is a crime or shame to enjoy your life, regardless your age, then, they can call me a dirty old man anytime.

[Mapguy]

Ian,

Great thread! Hope it goes on forever, but anyone under a certain age should probably just --- well --- click elsewhere!

Otherwise, Ian, it is time to come home and stop playing with yourself in your wadders!

Cheers!

[Rasseru]

... I couldn't have said it better, so I won't.

Let's see. One is unable to do a thing, and so one will not be doing it. Yep, I think the logic is pretty air-tight on that one!

[JUDAS]

From The Urban Dictionary:

Girl 1: Ew. That dirty old man is staring at me.

Girl 2: Oh, I think that guy owns all of MacDonalds.

Girl 1: You know what, he looks pretty cute holding himself

on that walker like that.

[Ulysses G.]

That's a GOOD one!

[Lopburi99]

To me the phrase means any middle age or above man who constantly has sex on his mind, making it obvious by finding sexual innuendo in almost anything, and failing to conceal this due to his lecherous grin or gestures. Both men and women are put off by this behavior, but understand it.

[sbk]

Actually, I have to agree with eek on one especial point. Posting pictures of the Temperance Union suffragettes in such a way with such asinine comments is not only rather patronizing but also displays an ignorance as to women's lack of rights in prior generations and shows a contempt for what these women fought for.

Poorly played sir. Very poorly played.

[Absingjul]

That's the great thing about college girls... as you age 40, 60, 80.. they are always 18-22

I'm looking forward to the day when I can be deemed a D.O.M.

[IanForbes]

Actually, I have to agree with eek on one especial point. Posting pictures of the Temperance Union suffragettes in such a way with such asinine comments is not only rather patronizing but also displays an ignorance as to women's lack of rights in prior generations and shows a contempt for what these women fought for.

Poorly played sir. Very poorly played.

So, sbk, what you are basically saying is you agree that the Temperance Union suffragettes were correct in having alcohol banned in the USA, and in so doing began the booze wars run by mobs in Chicago and New York. Temperance Union suffragettes fought for very narrow minded thinking that still runs through the USA today and causes all sorts of problems. Just because women's rights were also improved does not mean that the Temperance Union suffragettes were right. It reminds me very much of the PETA group that supposedly fight for the rights of animals, but in actuality is just a collection agency.

I only posted the picture for a laugh... because it IS funny. Anyone who can't see that doesn't have a sense of humour. If the picture was of a bunch of stunningly beautiful women holding the same sign the picture wouldn't have any humour at all.

[pewe]

I remember an eldery guy from sweden sitting next to me in a well known farang place recently. He looked at the beautiful thai lady sitting at my side, turned to me and said:

"I don't mind getting older for as long as my girlfriends are getting younger". The thai lady understands english fairly well and she picked up what he said, and she shoutet at him: "you are a very dirty old man"

:-)

[sbk]

I am well aware of the side effects of the prohibition. But I am also quite well aware of the lives of women in those days. Are you? I don't think their ban of alcohol was necessarily the right one, but times have also changed quite dramatically since those days and to "poke fun" at women who had no rights and were considered property of their husbands is immature.

But hey, we are both off topic here.

dirty old man is the enlightening subject of this thread remember? And the need, it appears, as well as to start yet another thread denigrating women.

[Lopburi99]

I am well aware of the side effects of the prohibition. But I am also quite well aware of the lives of women in those days. Are you? I don't think their ban of alcohol was necessarily the right one, but times have also changed quite dramatically since those days and to "poke fun" at women who had no rights and were considered property of their husbands is immature.

But hey, we are both off topic here.

dirty old man is the enlightening subject of this thread remember? And the need, it appears, as well as to start yet another thread denigrating women.

I am squarely behind Ian on this one Sbk. You've taken his light heartedness way too far. Lighten up.

[IanForbes]

I am well aware of the side effects of the prohibition. But I am also quite well aware of the lives of women in those days. Are you? I don't think their ban of alcohol was necessarily the right one, but times have also changed quite dramatically since those days and to "poke fun" at women who had no rights and were considered property of their husbands is immature.

But hey, we are both off topic here.

dirty old man is the enlightening subject of this thread remember? And the need, it appears, as well as to start yet another thread denigrating women.

Don't be so touchy, sbk. I DO know that women's rights needed to be addressed. I've fought for them since I was a youngster. This thread has nothing to do about denigrating women. Women today in western cultures are more than capable of handling themselves. In fact they have more legal rights than men do. What needs to be addressed is the lack of rights of women in third world countries... of which I include Thailand.

[Mapguy]

Sbk,

You've got a lot to deal with here (I gather from your point of view), but please don't get too much in a huff --- just yet, please!

What constitutes a "dirty old man" is an interesting question. It might not have to do with "dirty!" It might not have to do with gender. I really would like to see what people say.

Otherwise, if the suggestion makes any sense at all, why not start a thread on dirty old or young (I'm in love with pecs!) women? That would be interesting, too. From my limited experience it seems that very few women post on TV Chiang Mai.

And that is really too bad! But I don't blame them at all!

Oy!

Enough, already, with superannuated adolescents who can't seem to hang onto (or find) their own dicks but seek rapture from the next restaurant's menu! Their eternal search!! They seem incapable of sensible conversation beyond the quality of hamburgers or carpaccio.

And that is a very sad.

[Boo]

What needs to be addressed is the lack of rights of women in third world countries... of which I include Thailand.

from reading a few of the posts on this thread seems thai women rights are low down on the list or priorities, esp as long as there is a steady supply of poor young ones prepared to prostitute themselves to boost the ego of older men (notice I never said dirty)

In fact they have more legal rights than men do.

really? On what planet.

[sbk]

Sbk,

You've got a lot to deal with here (I gather from your point of view), but please don't get too much in a huff --- just yet, please!

What constitutes a "dirty old man" is an interesting question. It might not have to do with "dirty!" It might not have to do with gender. I really would like to see what people say.

Otherwise, if the suggestion makes any sense at all, why not start a thread on dirty old or young (I'm in love with pecs!) women? That would be interesting, too. From my limited experience it seems that very few women post on TV Chiang Mai.

And that is really too bad! But I don't blame them at all!

because women get flamed within an inch of their lives for posting anything that doesn't cater.

Oy!

Enough, already, with superannuated adolescents who can't seem to hang onto (or find) their own dicks but seek rapture from the next restaurant's menu! Their eternal search!! They seem incapable of sensible conversation beyond the quality of hamburgers or carpaccio.

And that is a very sad.

no comment.

[mikediver]

I happen to be married to an Asian lady that will be half my age on her next birthday. She was 25 when we married so there was no child molestation involved. Yet, I have had to deal with the dirty old man attitudes of many. I expected it, and can deal with it from the older women that are bitter and angry, and hate men anyway as they blame them for all the bad things that happened to them, or good things that did not happen to them. By the way, these are the same women that were totally uninterested in me when my wife died 12 years ago. They just are pissed off because they feel that part of their life is over so it should be over for me too. Women being in control of men's lives is what all this age appropriate crap is about.

However, when I was in Cancun for a little diving this past April I had to put up with it from a young guy. Like all groups of divers the main topic was places we had dived. A young guy (~25) from Denmark was in the group and had dived in Phuket the prior year. I had dived in Phuket the year before the tsunami, and asked how the diving and reefs had recovered. He said the diving was great, but that he could not stand all the old guys pawing the young girls. I felt like telling him that he will be that age some day.

It is an artifact of our modern female dominated western thinking that homosexuality is considered a lifestyle choice, but a 40 (+) year old man attracted to a 20 (+) woman is a pervert. In years gone by, not that many generations ago, most women died in child birth. A man, in the course of a normal life, was a widower a couple of times; if he lived through the plagues and died an old man of 50. It was totally common, and unexceptional, that he would marry a much younger woman; of child bearing age. Look at the Jane Austen books. In the nineteenth century and before it was common for guys to marry the daughters of friends and business acquaintances who were of their own age.

So, is a guy that happens to find young women more attractive than the available middle aged women a dirty old man. I think not. He is just living out the biological imperatives in our genes. (Note that I say available middle aged women. There are some very attractive middle aged women, even in the land of the obese (USA). However, those that keep their figures are usually married or in a long term relationship. They are so rare they either are held onto or get picked up pretty quickly once they are on the market.) I do agree that the old guy creeping out everyone with inappropriate behavior may be a dirty old man. But who's to judge what is inappropriate? Some seeing me with my much younger wife are creeped out. Luckily, I stopped giving a dam_n what other people thought a long time ago.

[Boo]

It is an artifact of our modern female dominated western thinking that homosexuality is considered a lifestyle choice, but a 40 (+) year old man attracted to a 20 (+) woman is a pervert.

lol that's a new one, so western women are responsible for the gay rights movement that has been in full swing for the past several generations? LMAO

Me thinks that someone still gives a whole lot of dam_n what other people think

[IanForbes]

What needs to be addressed is the lack of rights of women in third world countries... of which I include Thailand.

from reading a few of the posts on this thread seems thai women rights are low down on the list or priorities, esp as long as there is a steady supply of poor young ones prepared to prostitute themselves to boost the ego of older men (notice I never said dirty)

In fact they have more legal rights than men do.

really? On what planet.

In divorce settlements and child custody battles in North America the men always come off second best. Men are required to pay for a woman's children from another man. Marriage certificate is not even needed if the couple were living common-law for a period of six months or more. I can go on and on, but that's not the point.

Men having sex with younger women is not an ego issue. That is an old wives tale. It's simply a case of men with money choosing more physically attractive women that turns them on. Whether we like it or not, or whether it's even fair, men are luckier than women when it comes to aging, and having opportunities with younger partners of the opposite sex. Women gain by generally out living men by a year or two. Growing old ain't much fun in any case, and anybody who can't stretch it out for as long as possible, then I'm all for them having a good time.

Women everywhere have been using their bodies to further their own gains. It has been going on for centuries and happens in the highest of societies, and includes the very wealthy. You can go right back to Cleopatra in the Roman days. Visit the art gallery of English history in London and look at the paintings of the women who bounced from one leader to the next. They were beautiful women who used their looks and bodies to get what they wanted... more power. What about Hillary Clinton? She could have chosen to divorce Billy for his pecadillos, but chose not to for political and social status reasons.

Even as a highschool teenager I heard the hot little babes talking about what some guy had in the way of car or high society family. I understand that many women who work in hooker joints (like Nana plaza and soi 6 in Pattaya) are not there because they want to be. They are there for the money. However, there are many gals in Chiang Mai bars who really like the action and get paid well in comparison to other occupations. There ARE jobs for people who don't want to be in the sex trade, but I'm sure that the gals who were going to do "IT" anyway figured they might as well get a few dollars out of the game.

[IanForbes]

Oh, and I REALLY appreciate the gals here who have enough fortitude to stand up to all the jousting that goes on between sexes. We like you even though we see things from a different point of view.

[Boo]

In divorce settle .....snip

ok, sure. #

[473geo]

I think there are either a lot of men here with short memories.....or they found Thailand later in life

I was quite surprised at the flaming on a recent thread where a young man said the sight of old men and young girls made him sick...(not an exact quote)

When I first visited Thailand....Phuket...around 20 years ago I had those same (shall we say a little less strongly) reservations about what I was seeing.....yes probably my upbringing but initially those thoughts of 'dirty old men' were there......

As I have grown older I have become accustomed to the sight and a little more understanding has made my evaluations of the situation more rounded....

However I am honest enough with myself to accept that there will always be people who view these relationships as 'dirty old men' and young girls

So I tolerate their judgement and opinion.......because yes I once for a time shared that view.......

[Lopburi99]

Oh, and I REALLY appreciate the gals here who have enough fortitude to stand up to all the jousting that goes on between sexes. We like you even though we see things from a different point of view.

Ian, be prepared to get beaten up for this too. Somebody probably considers it condescending or pandering. Can't win.

[sbk]

Not in response to any particular post, but a general reminder to all concerned before this thread gets too far out of hand

Please do remember the forum rules

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[eek]

Wish I had had a chance to read this ongoing, as there are now so many points I want to address that its making my head spin, and its not even 7am!

Have to say some things that wont go down well but its not an attack, its just a viewpoint...

I think often some things that come up time and time again are pretty hypocritical tbh. Such as men feeling sad about womens rights in 3rd world countries, but then going on to exploit the benefits of that, and at the same time critising the rights woman have in the west.

Also get a bit tired about reading comments along some lines that the roles are reversed for western woman in Thailand as they no longer have power over western men. Because of course, all women in the west manipulate men with their bodies and sex. Must be very frustrating for a woman be young and sexy and not want you (a generic "you", that is. Not pointing at anyone here!). If a young attractive woman in the west rebuffs, shes a bitch, if she smiles, shes a tease. (Yes, ok, a bit extreme, but seems to me woman can never win. Whatever we do will usually affect a mans ego one way or another). Then when a woman gets past a certain age we are of course all jealous and cynical and fat and washed up and dont like sex and etc etc etc.

When western couples visit Thailand our men must be either in heaven or hel_l(as in they run off and have fun with younger girls or feel miserable as sin because they stick with the wife. But, of course, if he says he is happy with his wife and wouldnt play around, hes lying. Biologically he is designed to "####" every attractive available female in sight - For clarification, I am being sarcastic here.).

Anyway...honestly, how often do you get people making negative comments about you when you walk down the street? (Again, a more open generic "you", and not just addressing the possible "dirty old man" comment, but any possible negative comments). If its occasional, if you are doing no wrong, and if you are happy, then just get over it. Life is too short. If its often, then maybe stop and think about what it is that would make people in society say that (and im not saying its right or wrong, im just saying think about it. Either that or put up with it and let it go). (hel_l, in any case, most women get comments 24/7 about them. We put up with it. Some complimentary, some base, but quite often derogatory. Even the worlds most beautiful and/or intelligent women put up with derogatory crap on a daily basis. We are judged far more harshly on everything from our minds to our bodies than men ever are. But, sorry, i dont want to turn this into some kind of 'we are worse off than you' debate. Im just stating what i believe is true and i think its relevant. Men dont get the same rough end of the stick in society, no matter how far woman have progressed). I think the problem also lies within the individual. Some things are clearly going to cause reactions, of course, but some things are peoples own demons playing up. Projecting their own negative ways of thinking onto others. So they go on to think that every western woman that even glances at them if they are with a young woman are giving them "dirty looks" or are jealous or whatever. Some may get an ego boost from that, or some will just resent the women. To some men here, the western woman in Thailand are an embodiment of every woman that ever rebuffed or caused them pain in the west. Damned before we even open our mouths.

I will also admit that I have sometimes had my own negative way of thinking. Ie: when i have seen a young delicate beautiful girl here who is obviously a partner of a much older less attractive man, I have felt sorry that the girl may have had little options in her life, otherwise she wouldnt be with him. But, thats also me projecting my viewpoint onto someone else, and who am i to make those assumptions.

Well..dam_n..im prattling on and its early in the morning ...and i havent had morning coffee ...and ive veered off topic..and Im just not eloquent enough like Mr Orang in my writing ability...so apologies.

[neverdie]

Ian, you are as mad as a two bob watch.

I get called an old bastard alot and a bastard I am.

of course, some people around here I refer to as a pain in the backside.....but I won't mention anyones name ^^ theres a couple of examples nearby ^^

Edited July 23, 2009 by neverdie

[Rasseru]

Goodness gracious, eek, hurry up and pour yourself that cup of coffee!

[neverdie]

Goodness gracious, eek, hurry up and pour yourself that cup of coffee!

and give yourself your morning uppercut

[Ulysses G.]

Wish I had had a chance to read this ongoing, as there are now so many points I want to address that its making my head spin, and its not even 7am!

Have to say some things that wont go down well but its not an attack, its just a viewpoint...

I think often some things that come up time and time again are pretty hypocritical tbh. Such as men feeling sad about womens rights in 3rd world countries, but then going on to exploit the benefits of that, and at the same time critising the rights woman have in the west.

Also get a bit tired about reading comments along some lines that the roles are reversed for western woman in Thailand as they no longer have power over western men. Because of course, all women in the west manipulate men with their bodies and sex. Must be very frustrating for a woman be young and sexy and not want you (a generic "you", that is. Not pointing at anyone here!). If a young attractive woman in the west rebuffs, shes a bitch, if she smiles, shes a tease. (Yes, ok, a bit extreme, but seems to me woman can never win. Whatever we do will usually affect a mans ego one way or another). Then when a woman gets past a certain age we are of course all jealous and cynical and fat and washed up and dont like sex and etc etc etc.

When western couples visit Thailand our men must be either in heaven or hel_l(as in they run off and have fun with younger girls or feel miserable as sin because they stick with the wife. But, of course, if he says he is happy with his wife and wouldnt play around, hes lying. Biologically he is designed to "####" every attractive available female in sight - For clarification, I am being sarcastic here.).

Anyway...honestly, how often do you get people making negative comments about you when you walk down the street? (Again, a more open generic "you", and not just addressing the possible "dirty old man" comment, but any possible negative comments). If its occasional, if you are doing no wrong, and if you are happy, then just get over it. Life is too short. If its often, then maybe stop and think about what it is that would make people in society say that (and im not saying its right or wrong, im just saying think about it. Either that or put up with it and let it go). (hel_l, in any case, most women get comments 24/7 about them. We put up with it. Some complimentary, some base, but quite often derogatory. Even the worlds most beautiful and/or intelligent women put up with derogatory crap on a daily basis. We are judged far more harshly on everything from our minds to our bodies than men ever are. But, sorry, i dont want to turn this into some kind of 'we are worse off than you' debate. Im just stating what i believe is true and i think its relevant. Men dont get the same rough end of the stick in society, no matter how far woman have progressed). I think the problem also lies within the individual. Some things are clearly going to cause reactions, of course, but some things are peoples own demons playing up. Projecting their own negative ways of thinking onto others. So they go on to think that every western woman that even glances at them if they are with a young woman are giving them "dirty looks" or are jealous or whatever. Some may get an ego boost from that, or some will just resent the women. To some men here, the western woman in Thailand are an embodiment of every woman that ever rebuffed or caused them pain in the west. Damned before we even open our mouths.

I will also admit that I have sometimes had my own negative way of thinking. Ie: when i have seen a young delicate beautiful girl here who is obviously a partner of a much older less attractive man, I have felt sorry that the girl may have had little options in her life, otherwise she wouldnt be with him. But, thats also me projecting my viewpoint onto someone else, and who am i to make those assumptions.

Well..dam_n..im prattling on and its early in the morning ...and i havent had morning coffee ...and ive veered off topic..and Im just not eloquent enough like Mr Orang in my writing ability...so apologies.

I pretty much agree with everything that you have said here, but it kind of all works out to: Life is a bitch and then you die!