Tourism plunges 22 per cent

[Datsun240Z]

Yet regular tourists/expats that cant get a Non O/B or retirement visa are now being turned away from Penang if asking for a tourist visa...OK they alraey have 3 but these people stay here and spend money on everything from food/entertainment and services.....beggars beliefe....why dont they just make it easy for people to stay here....lost count how many people I know have moved to Malaysia and Cambodia where it is more visa friendly.....wake up immigration, you want the revenue...be a bit more inviting..

Thailand is the country with the worst visa system in the region.........nobody talks about "perpetual tourists" or "border runners" or "real tourists" in Cambodia or the Philippines or Malaysia.

Why? Because those governments are smart enough not to care......it actually makes no difference at all in terms of security.

It makes a big difference in terms of whether you are seen as expat friendly or tourists friendly.

It makes a big difference if you want money from tourists and expats.

It is Thailand's social engineering program that is the problem.....with all of its nonsense about what a "real tourist" is.

I have mentioned this so many times now I feel like a talking parrot: One simple solution is to introduce a pay to stay visa system (for permanent residents/tourists simply require a security check).

Under this type of system (similar but not identical to both Cambodia and the Philippines), the tourists/expats are happy.........and the security function of the immigration department is met.

Good point, but since the Thai people know, this brings money in the drawyer, I don't think they will change it.

[brahmburgers]

It is Thailand's social engineering program that is the problem.....with all of its nonsense about what a "real tourist" is. I have mentioned this so many times now I feel like a talking parrot: One simple solution is to introduce a pay to stay visa system (for permanent residents/tourists simply require a security check).

I agree, JR. Thailand, particularly TAT, tries to 'social engineer' things so that just the biggest spending tourists come here. Like the Elite Card program, for every dollar they spend barking up the wrong tree, they probably garner fifty cents. Most of what's been mentioned in this ballooning thread is true. In essence, Thai manipulators (those that are involved with tourism) are shooting their Golden Goose full of buckshot.

Thailand's tourist industry will strengthen up in years, but not in months. There will always be the allure of cute bar girls - even though Thaksin and his buddies tried to snuff that out. Indeed, if you look at the numbers, it was about that time, that tourist numbers started to sag. Thaksin and his right hand man (can't recall his name. The one who ran off to New Zealand) succeeded in closing down easy sex places in most of the smaller cities and towns, but couldn't close it down in the biggest venues: Patong, Bkk, Pattaya, because the big shots there were too ingrained and powerful.

[sezze]

Tourism is probably pretty steady on the whole. Sure, arrivals are 22% down this year over last; but, one has to remember that the average arrival is getting much bigger. Obesity is rampant worldwide. There may be less numbers, but the total weight of tourists has not decreased one kilo, I'm sure. Go look at the size of them and tell me honestly that you see a reduction.

Yes , i saw it . I saw it 4 months ago when i was there and a saw it even more when i was over last month . I think the amount of tourist are about the same like 5 to 7 years before .

[Lite Beer]

Post with Royal reference deleted.

[vedantafx]

Every thread on here these days seems to be a bunch of moaners trying to explain why Thai tourism is down. What a load of rubbish. Just go to google news and type in tourism for any country and you will see that tourism is down everywhere. This is not unique to Thailand. The reasons being touted around are so blinkered IMHO...

Here is a selection from 2 minutes of googling google news...

Cruise Liners numbers down 50%!!! Why is the Med region linked to Thailand?

Rynaair 40% of fleet grounded Do they also fly to Thailand, is this why Ryanair flight numbers are down?

Revamp for struggling Canaries Again,

Usually during summer, the main beach at Playa de las Americas in Tenerife would be packed with holidaymakers. But today, there is no scramble for sun beds, no scrap for a patch of sand. Aside from a few families, the place is deserted.

"Things are very slow," admits Anthony Foxall, a British expat who runs a water sports business from a beachside kiosk.

"This time last year, these sun beds would have been full, and we would have had jet-ski customers on the water until evening.

"But like everyone, we're struggling."

Above the beach, the boardwalk is lined with pubs, bars and restaurants, many offering special deals. But the empty tables tell the story - here too, business is painfully slow.

Lanzoarote Tourism down 18% So is this region must be indentical to Thailand, yes all the visa changes, the shootings, double pricing and governemt actions are killing tourism here, lol...

Turkey down 1.3pc on month 3.26 million on the year

Visitores to Scotland down by 1 million It must be all those complex visa rules to get into Scotland, thats what it will be...and now a can of Iron Bru is up by 5 pence, that has hurt tourist visiting Scotland this year..

I can list 1000's more from all over the world...

So Thailand is unique, but not unique in a tourist sense...Thailand is not shielded by a global credit contraction and rising unemployment. People have had their home equity lines of credit and credit lines evaporate. They cannot now stick the 3 week holiday on equity against their home...or magically create employment when just about every industry is contracting...INCLUDING TOURISM!!!!

In fact Thailand is doing quite well in this crisis. They have a more stable currency, lower personal debt, the Thai banks are amongst the most solid in the world now, as they didnt buy the CDO's MBS, CMBS etc etc from the likes of Lehman and Bear Stearns.

Thai stocks are much better value than the US or UK or European markets and fairly valued regards Asia.

Please just do a little bit of research before posting up crap tainted by your onw bias. ANother poster noted that most of you are trying to stay here on a tourist visa,permanent residency and tourist visa is a bit of an oxymoron...

[peecee]

One of the key's to tourism is the ex-pat, he is seen by his mates & family has having a great time in the sun & so generates a lot of interest in all left miserable back home. So off they go to see ex-pat who by now is pissed off with exchange rates, visa's, ATM charges, politic's & the price of a chang & a curry; they in turn go back home disillusioned by their experiance, never to return. They then pass on their experience to all their mates and soon everybody back home is avoiding the place like a plague.

Good governance is to realise what brings in the countries dough & in Thailand's case it is the tourist. The guy's running the economy should know this & make law's in favour of their visitor's not against. Same with ex-pat's, their money in the main comes from their own country & stimulates the Thai economy at no cost to Thailand. Indeed, many job's in the tourist industry rely on ex-pat's in the low season for sustinance; as do the shop's, hospital's, etc.

Thailand should not continue to bite the hand that feeds it!

[mca]

My retired parents usually visit me 3 times a year but they've knocked it back to twice a year. Nothing to do with red/yellow shirts or shoplifters being extorted etc.. With the pound/baht rate and their pensions etc losing value like a second hand Lada they simply can't afford it.

[ParadiseLost]

One category of tourist that is disappearing fast is the border runner - perhaps having a significant impact on these numbers?

Edited July 24, 2009 by ParadiseLost

[SNGLIFE]

One category of tourist that is disappearing fast is the border runner - perhaps having a significant impact on these numbers?

That's a good point. Once a thriving niche industry, I've seen many of them go under or get consolidated. Lots of jobs and repeat revenue lost there because of the stricter visa policies.

That said, most developed countries do not have a revolving door visa policy either, so it would be unfair to complain that Thailand is getting rid of theirs in their never-ending quest to magically change the perception to one of a "developed" country via legislation.

Someday, they will get a clue that "it's the economy, stupid".

[henryalleman]

Of course the main reason of the drop in tourism is the international economical recession.But also the upcoming of new tourist destinations that target the same tourist who is coming to Thailand for the beaches;

And there is one of the biggest handicaps for Thailand. Its very difficult to compete with those countries, Simply because they are cheaper and only 2 or 3 hours flights.

But IMHO there are also other reasons. The most fast growing market in Tourism are city holiday's, and there Thailand has nothing to offer.

Cities like Barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid( Spain) since recent years attract million of tourists because the architecture, they all transformed the complete inner city to made it attractive or tourism. And than I not yet mention the million of tourists who visit Rome, Venice, Florence, Paris and others. All the towns in eastern Europe made enormous investments to develop their town to made them attractive for city tourism

European towns do everything to make their towns attractive, in most towns the inner cities have traffic free zones and the historical centers are almost always traffic free.

And Thailand???? The completely neglect this kind of tourism and all their towns are a complete urban mess.

Also a big difference with Europe are the small villages up country, just visit a small village or medium size town in Thailand and compare it with the villages as we know in Europe. Small village in Europe are clean, invest in making it attractive for visitors and almost all of them have traffic free zone where you stroll around drink and eat something in small clean restaurants or walk sides.

Who do not know the canals in Venice, Amsterdam, Brugge and there are hundreds of other towns in Europe who have them. They all take profit from them to organize boat tours. How Many of you ever made a tour on the klongs of Bangkok like its is possible like in the cities I mentioned above? Bangkok is doing nottingh to organize such tours on the klongs or Chapaya river. Its all in the hands of scammers.

In short Thailand has nothing to offer for such kind of cultural tourism, they can only show temples, but when you see one of two of them you seen them all. And shopping in Siam Paragon or other shopping malls is OK for 1 day, but you can't spend all your Holiday their.

Bangkok for instance has so many opportunities to develop cultural tourism, but the only thing they do is making the inner city almost unbearable to live in.

Thailand should clean up their town and village and make them attractive for the tourist who don't like to spend his Holiday on the beach. And usually this kind of tourist is of an higher income level than the beach freaks.

And it is possible, and there are some improvements. I you take the Mae Hong Song loop and go from Mae Hong Song to Mae Sariang and Mae Sot, there are several very nice and well equipped resting areas with clean Western toilets. So it is possible, but in general its completely ignored.

[dreamtime]

It sounds good. But you are assuming that "Thailand" will actually do some "thinking" that would make sense to the rest of the world. That is very doubtful.

S

[henryalleman]

And its not have to be expensive at all.

A small example;

A few years ago my hometown Antwerp find out that the most popular children book in Japan is "The Dog of Flanders" who is situated in Antwerp, its an immense popular story in Japan. Well my home town created an statue and an Dog of Flanders route. Since than about 200 000 Japanese tourists visit Antwerp yearly. And they do everything to make them feel welcome. In Paris, Rome, Madrid many departments stores have an Japanese desk who help Japanese tourists with the formalities when they buy duty free.

In short all over Europe they really pamper the Japanese tourist in every way possible. What is Thailand doing to attract the big money spending Japanese tourist?

The Japanese tourists replaced the rich American tourist from the 50's and 60's, and they do respect the culture much better.

What Thailand have to offer for this kind of tourists;

[astral]

They are fixing this issue as we speak by becoming more lenient on long stay visas

That would probably make the figures look worse...........

[DMasut]

Double pricing. Get real you make more and the double pricing is so easy to get around in most cases it is a non issue. Once agian bitching about a hundred baht here or there is ridiculous.

Since you don't seem to mind, Give us your name and we will put you on a list to be double charged in every country you visit...just because you are not from there... and you MUST share your money with every stranger you meet that you make money money than. When you run out of money, lets see how many people will share their money and allow you to gouge them for double.

Sure it is less than we pay for at home. But it is because of people like you that make it this way.

When Japanese tourist go to the UK or America or Australia we don't charge them double because their incomes and cost of living are might be higher. Do we?

Why should Thais have this right?

If you don't mind turning a Buddhist culture from a non-materialistic culture to one of not only thinking of money, but one that justifies charging double because of your race, maybe you are the one missing the point of what Thailand really is and leave, so as not to further pollute it with such thinking.

Overpaying not only sends the wrong message but creates a cultural snowball effect of more greed, corruption and crime.

[vedantafx]

Double pricing. Get real you make more and the double pricing is so easy to get around in most cases it is a non issue. Once agian bitching about a hundred baht here or there is ridiculous.

Since you don't seem to mind, Give us your name and we will put you on a list to be double charged in every country you visit...just because you are not from there... and you MUST share your money with every stranger you meet that you make money money than. When you run out of money, lets see how many people will share their money and allow you to gouge them for double.

Sure it is less than we pay for at home. But it is because of people like you that make it this way.

When Japanese tourist go to the UK or America or Australia we don't charge them double because their incomes and cost of living are might be higher. Do we?

Why should Thais have this right?

If you don't mind turning a Buddhist culture from a non-materialistic culture to one of not only thinking of money, but one that justifies charging double because of your race, maybe you are the one missing the point of what Thailand really is and leave, so as not to further pollute it with such thinking.

Overpaying not only sends the wrong message but creates a cultural snowball effect of more greed, corruption and crime.

I don't think this is anything unique to Thailand. One only has to look at the ridiculous social welfarism and rampant socialism in the the US, UK and other developed nations...You state that we get doubled charged because of our race. Well, the same argument goes in welfarism. Why should I pay twice the taxes in the US, UK the Euro region etc etc to buy some 18 year old girl who got drunk and pregnant a house, a toaster, a DVD player etc etc...IS this not the cultural snowball effect in a much grander scale of being discriminated against for working, saving and being prudent to subsidise the imprudent, the credit card junkies and the irresponsible and lazy.

Many in the UK face double pricing in the form of taxes to fund a corrupt system.

Edited July 24, 2009 by vedantafx

[Datsun240Z]

Sure it is less than we pay for at home. But it is because of people like you that make it this way.

When Japanese tourist go to the UK or America or Australia we don't charge them double because their incomes and cost of living are might be higher. Do we?

Why should Thais have this right?

If you don't mind turning a Buddhist culture from a non-materialistic culture to one of not only thinking of money, but one that justifies charging double because of your race, maybe you are the one missing the point of what Thailand really is and leave, so as not to further pollute it with such thinking.

Overpaying not only sends the wrong message but creates a cultural snowball effect of more greed, corruption and crime.

[dreamtime]

Now that's interesting. Buddhism is supposed to teach or embrace non-attachment to things. Well, the Thai's are pretty well attached and only seem to think about nothing but money. How does that make any sense at all?

S

If you don't mind turning a Buddhist culture from a non-materialistic culture to one of not only thinking of money, but one that justifies charging double because of your race, maybe you are the one missing the point of what Thailand really is and leave, so as not to further pollute it with such thinking.

Overpaying not only sends the wrong message but creates a cultural snowball effect of more greed, corruption and crime.

[Datsun240Z]

Now that's interesting. Buddhism is supposed to teach or embrace non-attachment to things. Well, the Thai's are pretty well attached and only seem to think about nothing but money. How does that make any sense at all?

If this not changes, no democracy at all. It will get worse, civil war will come.... Burma II

[cdnvic]

is your information .. um .. colloquial?

That's got to be the most polite way I've seen anyone say "pulled out of your arse".

Well done.

[zzaa09]

I would like to know how they came up with the "49-year low" claim. Weird statistical twisting if true. Perhaps based on the %age year-on-year drop.

Surely, tourism wasn't considered a growth market some 49 years ago. Realistically to use more contemporary comparatives, yes? They could make anything up and.....

[jackr]

European towns do everything to make their towns attractive, in most towns the inner cities have traffic free zones and the historical centers are almost always traffic free.

And Thailand???? The completely neglect this kind of tourism and all their towns are a complete urban mess.

You're missing one biggie, though. Europe is a staid place with rigid rules and regs and has one huge disadvantage over Muang Thai... it is full of Europeans.

[hervelon]

I really don't think the tourism decrease can be attributed to the polical unrest and swine flu. Maybe to a small degree, but not to an all time low. I think this government needs to look at several items.

The exchange rate for the baht is horrible

The prices for lodging and services is becoming outrageous. $100 a night for hotels in Thailand. Please

Thai Air is probably one of the highest priced airlines going in th world right now.

ANd then there is the problem of gaining a visa, dual entry, just not conducive to the tourist.

As a farang married to a Thai lady, the fact that they are making it harder for us to buy property or transferring money just to support our wives and children has alot to do with why go to Thailand? They have made a very unappealing place to come to.

The Thai governement needs to wake up and smell the coffee, there are places such as Vietname to visit that are just as nice and far less expensive same with the Philippines. Thailand is pricing and governing themselves out of the tourism market.

I hope someone from the government is listening.

It is so true, i really wish someone from the authority was listening! I am in two mind whether i should establish my permanent camp in Thailand with all the on going complications i have here(visa/investing in propeties & business). If i am feeling that way i am sure i cant be the only one and reading this forum i am right.

They are slowly making it illegal to even set foot in this country, let alone stay for longer - and then wonder why nobody comes..??

T. i. T.

Thanh

Again very true! when will someone start listening and realise that current policies on investment and visa are not working.

Making it hard to own property = YES

making it hard to transfer money = NO - NEver had any issues wiring decent amounts of cash into the country.

Correct, in no problem, try taking it out !,. like everyting else money related in thaiiand its on a one way ticket and in their favour,.

Of course they are happy to take your money and happy to ask you to leave even quicker... my 14 old son is visiting me from the US, he was on 30days visa. i went to apply in hua hin for an extension for an extra couple of weeks as he decided to stay with me longer.

I could only get a maximum of a week extension for 1900bahts, fine for the cost but after 7days you are not allowed to re apply...you must leave the country!! so i decided to let him overtay and i will pay the 500baht fine per day when i fly him back...you really feel welcome here!! what do they worry a boy of 14yrs will do with his father for an extra 2 weeks, the whole thing is just ridiculous... and i am here in thailand spending a great deal of money! i am now in 2 minds if Thailand is the right place to be... i am thinking of putting my properties on the market...So if i am feeling this way many more are ...and the government policies are slowly choking tourism....well done!!

[animatic]

You can still get a plate of noodles veggies and chicken and a beer on Samui for around 80-120 baht,

not 300 for just the plate. Still gone up a lot since '91 of course.

[brahmburgers]

Henry Alleman makes a good point about doing things to make cities and towns particularly attractive to tourists (and attractive to everyone else, as part of the package).

Thais in general tolerate a higher level of trash, noise, ugly infrastructure than what would be tolerated in the States or Europe. It's not just a matter of money. You don't have to be rich to put trash in a receptacle, or to have a few trash bins around for that. You don't have to be a rich country to try and hide endless cobwebs of black wires hanging everywhere or to hose/wipe down (with bleach) some of the mildewed walls which are ubiquitous throughout Thailand. You don't have to be a rich country to know trash thrown out of boats gets washed up to beach areas (or settles on coral reefs). Neither do you have to be rich to know not to throw paper/glass/plastic on the ground. It doesn't take farang-type organization to arrange for some people to pick up trash at beaches - or pick up trash along streets and sidewalks. I haven't gone to visit a Thai beach in many years for that reason.

A suggestion: Thailand set up one or more villages to reflect how things were 100 or 200 years ago.

They've done something like that in Indonesia, and there are 'showcase villages at Williamsburg (Virginia USA) and other places in the States and Europe. The idea is to have a village which shows how people lived in the past - like a living museum. No internal combustion engines, no electricity, no cell phones, no radio/TV/CD players, etc. Because no Thai person could exist without modern conveniences for more than a few hours, the 'villagers' would be paid a modest wage to populate the village in the daytime - as tourists stroll through. P.S. keep the #$*@&% dogs away, even if it's non-authentic to do that (Ok, keeping dogs away would be impossible, sorry).

As for people-only areas, that's a pipe dream in Thailand. Except for Royal places and perhaps some wats, it's not possible to keep motorbikes out of areas - even if those areas are designated that way.

In Thailand, the rule is: 'if a motorbike can physically get there, it will be there.' There are ways to set up stout metal pipes (close together or a high bar), but some motorbike riders will still find ways through - and then you have unsightly pipes sticking up all around the perimeter, and baby strollers and wheelchairs can't get through (though Thais don't use strollers or wheelchairs). They don't use child safety seats in vehicles either, but that's another topic.

All tourists need to learn very early on during their first trip to Thailand: vehicles won't stop to let pedestrians cross (same goes for allowing monks or elderly right of way). And if you find a rare area which disallows vehicles, such as a market or tourist attraction, you got to keep your wits about you, because there probably will be motorcycles darting around regardless, and they want to drive fast (it's either the manly way to drive, and/or each rider has important business to tend to, so anyone in their way is insignificant).

Edited July 25, 2009 by brahmburgers

[henryalleman]

As for people-only areas, that's a pipe dream in Thailand. Except for Royal places and perhaps some wats, it's not possible to keep motorbikes out of areas - even if those areas are designated that way.

In Thailand, the rule is: 'if a motorbike can physically get there, it will be there.' There are ways to set up stout metal pipes (close together or a high bar), but some motorbike riders will still find ways through - and then you have unsightly pipes sticking up all around the perimeter, and baby strollers and wheelchairs can't get through (though Thais don't use strollers or wheelchairs). They don't use child safety seats in vehicles either, but that's another topic.

Its not neccesary to put physical objects like pipes to block cars and motorcycles.Just put some signs, I think the boy's in brown will be very glad with the extra income

[lounger]

In 1960 no one ever contemplated holidaying in Thailand, all we knew about the country is that it was the setting for 'The King and I' when it was previously known as Siam. I have a friend who actually went to Pattaya in the 1960s but that was only because he worked for the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank and they sent him to Bangkok. Apart from GIs on R&R it was unknown as a holiday destination.

In 1960 the British holiday makers were considered fortunate to be able to afford 2 weeks on the Costa Brava let alone SE Asia. It was the same for the other Europeans, the Americans and probably the Australians. These claims in this article are nonsense.

I think you are actually answering your own disbelief. You say there were minimal tourists in 1960 and the global travel infrastructure was not there. So if the tourist visitors drop by 22% in 1960, then its not really so many people. Maybe a plane load. Easily achievable. But in the 21st century to lose 22% inspite of the massive difference in continental bias, that takes some doing. And the thais did it. Amazing Thailand.

Ps Everyone should post something today. If there were 11 million posts, one for each chap/ess who managed to get into/stay in Thailand then someone might start to listen...

[johnefallis]

Making it hard to own property = YES

making it hard to transfer money = NO - NEver had any issues wiring decent amounts of cash into the country.

Then you must be the only one that they didn't raise the fees for.

[johnefallis]

I really don't think there were more than 11 million tourists 48 years ago in Thailand. Or 47, or 37, or 27, or 17 or even 7 years ago. What a crock of sh#t piece of journalism.

For all of you that don't understand that a 22% drop in tourism from 1 year to the next and the loss of overall growth is what they are referring to, it is...

[johnefallis]

Double pricing. Get real you make more and the double pricing is so easy to get around in most cases it is a non issue. Once agian bitching about a hundred baht here or there is ridiculous.

Since you don't seem to mind, Give us your name and we will put you on a list to be double charged in every country you visit...just because you are not from there... and you MUST share your money with every stranger you meet that you make money money than. When you run out of money, lets see how many people will share their money and allow you to gouge them for double.

Sure it is less than we pay for at home. But it is because of people like you that make it this way.

When Japanese tourist go to the UK or America or Australia we don't charge them double because their incomes and cost of living are might be higher. Do we?

Why should Thais have this right?

If you don't mind turning a Buddhist culture from a non-materialistic culture to one of not only thinking of money, but one that justifies charging double because of your race, maybe you are the one missing the point of what Thailand really is and leave, so as not to further pollute it with such thinking.

Overpaying not only sends the wrong message but creates a cultural snowball effect of more greed, corruption and crime.

I don't think this is anything unique to Thailand. One only has to look at the ridiculous social welfarism and rampant socialism in the the US, UK and other developed nations...You state that we get doubled charged because of our race. Well, the same argument goes in welfarism. Why should I pay twice the taxes in the US, UK the Euro region etc etc to buy some 18 year old girl who got drunk and pregnant a house, a toaster, a DVD player etc etc...IS this not the cultural snowball effect in a much grander scale of being discriminated against for working, saving and being prudent to subsidise the imprudent, the credit card junkies and the irresponsible and lazy.

Many in the UK face double pricing in the form of taxes to fund a corrupt system.

Most intellegent thing I've read all day!

[sunholidaysun1]

Out of the possible 100 tourists coming here this year , 22% of them have changed their minds. The remaining 78 % will have a wonderful time.

That works out at 1.5 people coming here per week for the next year . And its High season soon , anyone for a spliff.