Laying Down The Law

[OldenAtwoody]

Amazing Thailand! Rather than Little China or China Lite I think the new advertising campaign should be tagged:

Thailand! Burma with Electricity

Before anyone goes off the rails, these new saber rattlings from today's flavor of the day government probably will go the way of the smoking law, prostitution laws and standards for English teachers. This government has done absolutely nothing positive over the past six months except handing out Bt2,000 checks to the poor. They got the idea from the last truly elected deposed prime minister. You got to love this place.

hahaha! This post gets my vote for "Tourism Suggestion of the Year".

[MUYTHAI]

The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?

You are probably misinformed: there are NO massage parlors with sexy girls, NO gogo bars in Thailand. Anyway, prostitution and pornography are illegal in this country.

BR><BR><BR>According to Chief of Police in Phuket, which was printed in the Phuket Gazette two years ago:

Massage Parlours where the girls are free to leave at any time and they have the ability to say NO to the customer who choses her are Legal. Kept women and the ones where the mamasan forces them to service a customer are Illegal. They are to preform a massage! Anything else is between two consulting adults.

Go Go Bars are no more than bars with dancers for your entertainment, however nakedness and lude acts are Illegal and the girls are fined and the bar can be closed down. Similar to topless bathing is illegal and warrents a 500 baht fine. However a bar fine is legal, you are paying to take away a girl from her place of work and depriving the business of a worker. The bar fine only entitles the customer to spend time with the girl, ie go for a meal, cinema, bowling etc. Anything else is just a business agreement between two consulting adults.

Prostitution is illegal, defined by: a postitute is a girl / boy who approaches potential customers offering services. ie the street walkers on walking street and beach road, they are legal as long as they dont approach us. We approach them and again it is a business transaction between two consulting adults. As long as they do not work for a street mamasan/pimp.

pornography is illegal and thai pornography warrents a jail sentence foreign porn in small quantities, for your own viewing will be destroyed if found in your possession. sales and distribution warrents a jail sentence.

Dont shoot the messenger!

Thanks for the info.

[bobright]

"The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?"

I believe it is only a matter of time.

Without saying whether I agree with it or not, I do not expect to see the sex scene as-we-know-it today to look anything like this in Thailand in five years from now. There is a groundswell of resentment to it among common Thai people, especially women, and a growing movement among the elite towards cleaning up Thailand's image. Like it or not, cracking down on perceived and actual immorality (certainly in public) is a vote winner.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I think the Thai populous in general is quite weary of their country's reputation as the world's whorehouse. The middle class is growing and has more opportunity for foreign travel and more access to international news and opinion. Ask most middle class Thais and I venture that you will find the vast majority are completely in favor of any measures that will reduce "visible" prostitution and the perception of immorality.

For those who think "TIT" and it will never happen here, well, just look at other Asian cities. Thirty years ago, Taipei, Hong Kong, Seoul, & Singapore all had a flourishing, "open" sex trade. As the general population in these places became more affluent and more aware of global consensus, the cheaper, visible sex-for-hire establishments (catering to both locals and foreigners) all disappeared. Of course, prostitution still exists and, in some cases, thrives in these cities, but not in the highly accessible, open, and inexpensive manner it previously had.

And, whether you realize it or not, the same thing is already happening in Thailand. Less than ten years ago most Thai cities (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Udon, Ubon, P'loke, etc., etc.) all had large, well-known cheap brothel districts. These areas have all been closed down or have been drastically reduced in size and forced to go "underground". Again, it doesn't mean that sex for sale has been eliminated, just that it's not as open and visible as it was in the past.

Like it or not, this trend will continue and will extend to foreign-patronized go-gos and massage parlors. If you think it won't happen becasue of the loss of revenue, then you've underestimated the cleverness and ingenuity of the Thais. They'll continue to make money off horny foreigners via escort services, rip-off "coyote" bars, and all the other schemes used to separate sex-starved old men from their money in other countries. And prostitution will always be available to those willing to pay a high enough price or who know where to look. But the days of user-friendly, out in the open, inexpensive sex establishments in Thailand are numbered.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right or wrong. Personally, I'm kind of ambivilent. I'd like to live in a moral society but would also like to have an endless supply of nubile sex partners available for nominal fee. It's just the way things go...

go to wanchai or mongkok in hongkong. go to khaosiong on the other side of taipei or downtown . go to downtown seoul on the slaezy side. go to downtown tokyo around ginza,shinjuku, etc.etc. tell me no cheap imported sex slaves can be found. even in clean and green singapore, geylang, joo chiat and ang teng and neighborhood residence areas are teeming with prostitutes if not sex slaves of all nationalities - be it chinese, indian, nepalese, indonesians, thais,vietnamese, russians, some europeans, blah, blah, blah, blah. please, please , please, ambivalent or not, your search for that endless supply of nubile sex partners for nominal fees need not stop in thailand and your days are not numbered as far this search of yours is concerned...so long as you are prepared to travel further and research more thoroughly. check the BANGKOK POST a couple of months ago when one reporter was in singapore covering a sexual slavery scandal and the cheap "imports" and locales where this cheap sex exist - before you put thailand at the bottom of your totem pole of cheap sex.

[chameleon1977]

This is all very depressing. It's one thing after another. I don't think I'm alone in loving Thailand because of its freedoms and certain lack of rules and regulations. Yet it seems every day there is a new law or rule being created to try and make Thailand in to a place less appealing. Not only that but the rules and regulations seem focused on the freedoms and crippling tourism and not on the real crimes or world image.

Banning working women from Karaoke bars…. I mean come on, are there not more important issues in Thailand!? After all, as many post have said, the bar owners get good money from this and some of the women will go on to have a far richer and different life by meeting someone in these bars. Who is this actually helping? What problems is this actually solving?

There is nothing like Western investment to bring a country like Thailand in to the lime light. Most Thais want to be rich and have a deep fascination with money as I guess do most of us in some way. I just wish the government would stop putting holes in all our pockets, mainly their own.

[Histavia]

A piece of incomprehensible, unenforceable and incompetant legislation - when will the people of thailand get fed up of these kind of ridiculous top-down papal bull style rulings?

[ctira]

Hopefully they won't forget to censor movie previews as well....

I stop taking my kids from going to the theater. Last time we went to see Doraemon and we had to sit through trailers with people getting their heads chopped off/naked women/horror scene. No more movie theaters for us.

Edited July 29, 2009 by ctira

[slipperx]

Jeez another well thought out idea. Why are kids under 15 allowed to play games in an internet cafe anyway - if they need it for education require internet cafes to provide computers with a copy of a decent encyclopaedia and have the computer set up to prevent installation of other games - that's easy. The disadvantages of allowing younger children into internet cafe's where all the older children are playing violent shoot them ups impact so much more negatively on a developing brain than the benefits of allowing them into such an environment for educational purposes in my opinion. If they need internet access for education then provide a service in the schools properly supervised by the teachers - obviously not through the night though. However since the Thais have little idea on how to provide children with a decent education I suppose that is a bit of a pipe dream. As for older children 15 and over - if the parents have no control then I think you are peeing in the wind trying to control them.

As for a law banning a girl from singing with a man - whoever thought that up is a retard - well I suppose that goes without saying - there are so many more important matters that require the commission of some thought to solve - but since running the country for the good of the people is about last on any politicians list and lining ones own pocket or manoevering oneself into a position to be able to line ones pocket a little thicker, is top of the list, I don;t see much changing except for the worse.

There used to be at least a semblance of honour and untruism in politics - looking across the world stage I see none - certainly not in the US nor the UKv- I fear we are all lost to control, restriction and removal of personal liberty on an exponential curve which is pretty frightening. Far too much regulation and far too little freedom. I really don;t want to be told who I can sing with, talk with or enjoy conjugal relations with and what that has to do with politicians and the law defeats me!!

[MUYTHAI]

The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?

They have to start somewhere. It is a good thing that they are taking a hold of this, rather then ignoring it all.

Are you kidding? Surely you must be. Ignoring what "ALL"? What is the '"ALL" you speak of Tonto? What is the "THIS" you speak of? You must be a female 19 year old, politically correct, far left liberal or far right conservative (both are so extreme that they are the same...insane fascists) from the USA? Obviously you do not know much about LOS. Save your self from your ignorance. Stay in Oklahoma and out of LOS and the rest of Asia.

Nee Me Poo / Nez Perce

[caf]

The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?

You are probably misinformed: there are NO massage parlors with sexy girls, NO gogo bars in Thailand. Anyway, prostitution and pornography are illegal in this country.

BR><BR><BR>According to Chief of Police in Phuket, which was printed in the Phuket Gazette two years ago:

Massage Parlours where the girls are free to leave at any time and they have the ability to say NO to the customer who choses her are Legal. Kept women and the ones where the mamasan forces them to service a customer are Illegal. They are to preform a massage! Anything else is between two consulting adults.

Go Go Bars are no more than bars with dancers for your entertainment, however nakedness and lude acts are Illegal and the girls are fined and the bar can be closed down. Similar to topless bathing is illegal and warrents a 500 baht fine. However a bar fine is legal, you are paying to take away a girl from her place of work and depriving the business of a worker. The bar fine only entitles the customer to spend time with the girl, ie go for a meal, cinema, bowling etc. Anything else is just a business agreement between two consulting adults.

Prostitution is illegal, defined by: a postitute is a girl / boy who approaches potential customers offering services. ie the street walkers on walking street and beach road, they are legal as long as they dont approach us. We approach them and again it is a business transaction between two consulting adults. As long as they do not work for a street mamasan/pimp.

pornography is illegal and thai pornography warrents a jail sentence foreign porn in small quantities, for your own viewing will be destroyed if found in your possession. sales and distribution warrents a jail sentence.

Dont shoot the messenger!

Thanks for the info.

Consulting adults? You mean the girls are like management consultants.

[fred007]

Great to see the Thai officials tackling very important issues as usual

[Jimjim]

IMPOSSIBLE!. How can that work??? Every game shop has its own server! Does someone really think game shop owners are going to "kill" their own business and follow these rules... No! IMHO

TiT where they can't even provide proper internet connections...

Second person I've seen say this yet I've seen with my own eyes internet shop owners kicking kids out of the shop saying they've been there too long as I believe there are presently some regulations already in place. It's impossible for the police to regulate every single shop, but I think a lot of shop owners will follow this. So, yes, as I've seen this in multiple internet cafes I think many of them will follow this.

[bluedog]

Social order campaigns. Very popular with the people. Just copying another Thaksin populist policy.

By the way dont half those entertainment places have a licence for a noodle stall?

Yeah like the place in Thonglor that burnt down and did not have an entertainment license or proper fire controls. What a joke this place is. And who exactly is going to police all this? The BIB cannot even enforce simple driving laws never mind checking Karaoke bars and Internet cafes. Don't need to go to the movies here, just read the local press and Thaivisa for all the entertainment you need.

[MUYTHAI]

"The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?"

I believe it is only a matter of time.

Without saying whether I agree with it or not, I do not expect to see the sex scene as-we-know-it today to look anything like this in Thailand in five years from now. There is a groundswell of resentment to it among common Thai people, especially women, and a growing movement among the elite towards cleaning up Thailand's image. Like it or not, cracking down on perceived and actual immorality (certainly in public) is a vote winner.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I think the Thai populous in general is quite weary of their country's reputation as the world's whorehouse. The middle class is growing and has more opportunity for foreign travel and more access to international news and opinion. Ask most middle class Thais and I venture that you will find the vast majority are completely in favor of any measures that will reduce "visible" prostitution and the perception of immorality.

For those who think "TIT" and it will never happen here, well, just look at other Asian cities. Thirty years ago, Taipei, Hong Kong, Seoul, & Singapore all had a flourishing, "open" sex trade. As the general population in these places became more affluent and more aware of global consensus, the cheaper, visible sex-for-hire establishments (catering to both locals and foreigners) all disappeared. Of course, prostitution still exists and, in some cases, thrives in these cities, but not in the highly accessible, open, and inexpensive manner it previously had.

And, whether you realize it or not, the same thing is already happening in Thailand. Less than ten years ago most Thai cities (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Udon, Ubon, P'loke, etc., etc.) all had large, well-known cheap brothel districts. These areas have all been closed down or have been drastically reduced in size and forced to go "underground". Again, it doesn't mean that sex for sale has been eliminated, just that it's not as open and visible as it was in the past.

Like it or not, this trend will continue and will extend to foreign-patronized go-gos and massage parlors. If you think it won't happen becasue of the loss of revenue, then you've underestimated the cleverness and ingenuity of the Thais. They'll continue to make money off horny foreigners via escort services, rip-off "coyote" bars, and all the other schemes used to separate sex-starved old men from their money in other countries. And prostitution will always be available to those willing to pay a high enough price or who know where to look. But the days of user-friendly, out in the open, inexpensive sex establishments in Thailand are numbered.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right or wrong. Personally, I'm kind of ambivilent. I'd like to live in a moral society but would also like to have an endless supply of nubile sex partners available for nominal fee. It's just the way things go...

go to wanchai or mongkok in hongkong. go to khaosiong on the other side of taipei or downtown . go to downtown seoul on the slaezy side. go to downtown tokyo around ginza,shinjuku, etc.etc. tell me no cheap imported sex slaves can be found. even in clean and green singapore, geylang, joo chiat and ang teng and neighborhood residence areas are teeming with prostitutes if not sex slaves of all nationalities - be it chinese, indian, nepalese, indonesians, thais,vietnamese, russians, some europeans, blah, blah, blah, blah. please, please , please, ambivalent or not, your search for that endless supply of nubile sex partners for nominal fees need not stop in thailand and your days are not numbered as far this search of yours is concerned...so long as you are prepared to travel further and research more thoroughly. check the BANGKOK POST a couple of months ago when one reporter was in singapore covering a sexual slavery scandal and the cheap "imports" and locales where this cheap sex exist - before you put thailand at the bottom of your totem pole of cheap sex.

If these karaoke laws are implimented and enforced, it is possible that some of the karaoke women will go to these "modern" Asian counties/ areas you listed and become "kept" / sex slaves in these "moral" , wealthier, and more "modern" societies...LMFAO. The locals there will abuse some of these women . It is much better that the women stay and work in their own country (LOS) where they are in charge of their own lives and are close to their families.

[cecco]

they (government) really know their priority overhere

I propose : stop prostitution , abuse of children, abuse of alcohol , stop selling sigarets

really I do

if Thailand want to get genuine tourists that spend money and not hookers, pimps and drug dealers

Firstly: For those of you who live in Krung Thep or Chonburi, you may have a different perspective than those of us living in other areas. But, except for the sin cities, we don't see bars with drunks. There are few low class people drinking themselves into oblivion on the streets of Pai. I almost never drink. About 3 or 4 times a year I will sit on the street and drink one beer, never two. One day I got a hate mail from a guy I never met in Soppong telling me that I was a liar and a fraud because I said I am not a drunk and he had it on good authority that I sat every night on the street and was a drunk. I don't smoke either, and since there is one table outside the restaurant where you can sit and smoke, I usually sit there, if it's available, so people don't hold their cigarettes in such a way to facilitate and enable the smoke to fill the restaurant. I like sitting on the street, but my primary objective is to occupy the table so that tobacco smoke is not blowing in my food or face while I eat "inside." Also, note that, that airborne bacteria is facilitated through everything, including Tobacco Smoke.

Secondly: We have karaoke bars here, and not a one of them has girls available for free, or volunteer, unless one of you knows something I don't know.

Thirdly: Ubon Ratchathani has a bar called "Country Club," and I love it more than anywhere I have been in Thailand. It's a totally beautiful bar, with excellent (and beautiful, and handsome, and witty) entertainment. The place is massive, and totally packed, and cheap, compared to the man farang bars and clubs.

Fourthly: Did anybody notice this happened shortly after the Clinton visit?

Fifthly: I have been into the mountains, as far back as 2 hours from a road, tourists and travelers (Thai's, Karen, man farang, etc) go there looking for girls to marry, and the girls know they are in demand (they just have to wait - and not wait long). In most of the tribal areas, if she is not chosen by a man before she is 20, she will be married by 20. The average cost of marrying a 20 year old is about 9,000 baht. There is no "free," the hill tribes believe that if you do not eat, you do not eat. The outfits that I am showing you cost, at the lowest price, 630 baht for the colorful shirt, and the black skirts that Thai Lisu women wear are 330 baht and up. So they are inexpensive at all, like the Thai who can be dressed for a 39 baht shirt and 59 baht pair of pants. Most of the people in the tribes now, are "Thai," with Thai - ID Cards and totally capable of having Thai Passports, free medical care, and all the benefits of being a Thai National. They have social networks throughout Asia to move girls from Burma, Cambodia, Vietnam. This is their culture. The tourism industry provided a cover for money laundering and trafficking, which is no longer cost effective, and actually becoming a loss-leader in their marketing strategies. They don't want the Chinese here, and for good reason, and are beginning to realize that they wish to attract a decent client base.

Sixthly: Previously the bars and what not were stocked by various ethnicities (female workers). My girlfriend doesn't want to be Thai, so she is Lisu. But she would be totally Thai if she wanted to be Thai, because she is Thai, she just doesn't like the Thai, so she is Lisu. Since I cannot speak Lisu, she is forced to speak Thai with me, in order to communicate, but if a Thai (she is Thai herself) talks to her, unless there is a very good reason to speak Thai, she acts like she can't understand them. She really hates the Thai. But this being said, Burma and China are filling with Christians in the previously "sex-industry-feeding" ethnicities. Thailand itself is becoming Christian all around the "Buddhist" sanctuaries of the Thai. The hills are full of Christians, and they know who the Christians are in (and from) the villages, even the Lisu who are still demon worshipping know who the Christians are from and amongst them. Many of the girls now in these "sex" and "peripheral sex" industries are not new and cycling in and out to "help my family." They are experienced and seasoned workers who are well trained in fleecing men, spreading and incubating disease. In the past Thai girls, then Hill tribe girls, then Cambodian Girls would fill the bars and work. But today, Many many many of them are born again Christian villages who once sent girls to work money. Also, the hill tribes don't need the money. They have heliports on the mountains in remote villages, roads of various designs to facilitate the downpours, multiple arrays of solar panels, and the most remote areas of the "mountains" are now equipped with electricity, although they prefer to cook with charcoal, and want a warm shower but believe it is best for their to wash it outside in cold water. They have royal projects up there, experimental gardens, resident police and army observers, and hub and spoke transportation from roads (such as Ban Wat Chan) so that you can drive on an excellent road to the hub and from there get a variety of transportation to any village you wish to travel any time you wish to go, for any price you wish to pay, including free. Many of us are planting our own food now, and are not dependant upon the markets for food, and this is commonplace amongst the rural Thais as well. What is being attacked is the Mafia, in a very polite Thai way. As the girls some of you think are coming from "poor families," is a scam. A total scam. Those mountains have elaborate banking systems, stores, even gas stations (2 hours from a road). They lack nothing! They have schools, hospitals, etcetera. I wonder if I should post photos showing you these things?

7. The major thing here in Thailand is how Thailand wishes to be viewed. What is the preferred "Thai Greng Jai?" Thailand prefers a Greng Jai of a major world power, and major moral leader of Asia. And Thailand is changing. Those of you who think Krung Thep will never change, have no idea how dismal it is today compared to the late 1970's when I first came here. Man, Thailand was great then, mostly because Siam was still alive. Today, Siam is all but smothered by Thailand, and that is a great loss. Unfortunately the King of Chiang Mai had no Heir, which ushered in the demise of the Lanna Kingdom as well.

8. Thailand, in relationship to the rest of the world, has been strongly influenced by the west for it's entire history as "Thailand," beginning with Mongkhut, Chularnakorn, and following. Thailand now is mutating into either a Western Country or an Asian Country. This is the battle of Thailand, for Thailand, and in Thailand. Thailand is a proud nation, deciding now how to define "nation," and how to define "kingdom."

Watch and observe, we will all learn much from what is coming out of the past.

As an American Citizen, how can Thailand support a country (The USA) which even I cannot support in these days? So, will a nation with histories so intertwined with the Burmese (who were invited into Thailand by the King of Chiang Mai to fight the King of Siam, as well as Thailand paid tribute to Burma for a very long time), Cambodians (Thailand was ruled by the Khmer at one time and helped in the creation of Angkor Wat and the wars there), Laotians (Nong _Kai and Vientenne used to be one Kingdom), Chiang Rai (where Chiang Saen was the last Kingdom to be brought into Siam), Anna Levitwitz, and BNH in BKK which exists under foreign ownership by Rama V royal decree, and the like. Now, Thailand is becoming it's own nation, it's own people, and is no longer serving other nations. I wish America would serve Americans and stop serving Mexicans.

Edited July 29, 2009 by cecco

[chmike]

"The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?"

I believe it is only a matter of time.

Without saying whether I agree with it or not, I do not expect to see the sex scene as-we-know-it today to look anything like this in Thailand in five years from now. There is a groundswell of resentment to it among common Thai people, especially women, and a growing movement among the elite towards cleaning up Thailand's image. Like it or not, cracking down on perceived and actual immorality (certainly in public) is a vote winner.

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I think the Thai populous in general is quite weary of their country's reputation as the world's whorehouse. The middle class is growing and has more opportunity for foreign travel and more access to international news and opinion. Ask most middle class Thais and I venture that you will find the vast majority are completely in favor of any measures that will reduce "visible" prostitution and the perception of immorality.

For those who think "TIT" and it will never happen here, well, just look at other Asian cities. Thirty years ago, Taipei, Hong Kong, Seoul, & Singapore all had a flourishing, "open" sex trade. As the general population in these places became more affluent and more aware of global consensus, the cheaper, visible sex-for-hire establishments (catering to both locals and foreigners) all disappeared. Of course, prostitution still exists and, in some cases, thrives in these cities, but not in the highly accessible, open, and inexpensive manner it previously had.

And, whether you realize it or not, the same thing is already happening in Thailand. Less than ten years ago most Thai cities (Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Udon, Ubon, P'loke, etc., etc.) all had large, well-known cheap brothel districts. These areas have all been closed down or have been drastically reduced in size and forced to go "underground". Again, it doesn't mean that sex for sale has been eliminated, just that it's not as open and visible as it was in the past.

Like it or not, this trend will continue and will extend to foreign-patronized go-gos and massage parlors. If you think it won't happen becasue of the loss of revenue, then you've underestimated the cleverness and ingenuity of the Thais. They'll continue to make money off horny foreigners via escort services, rip-off "coyote" bars, and all the other schemes used to separate sex-starved old men from their money in other countries. And prostitution will always be available to those willing to pay a high enough price or who know where to look. But the days of user-friendly, out in the open, inexpensive sex establishments in Thailand are numbered.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right or wrong. Personally, I'm kind of ambivilent. I'd like to live in a moral society but would also like to have an endless supply of nubile sex partners available for nominal fee. It's just the way things go...

go to wanchai or mongkok in hongkong. go to khaosiong on the other side of taipei or downtown . go to downtown seoul on the slaezy side. go to downtown tokyo around ginza,shinjuku, etc.etc. tell me no cheap imported sex slaves can be found. even in clean and green singapore, geylang, joo chiat and ang teng and neighborhood residence areas are teeming with prostitutes if not sex slaves of all nationalities - be it chinese, indian, nepalese, indonesians, thais,vietnamese, russians, some europeans, blah, blah, blah, blah. please, please , please, ambivalent or not, your search for that endless supply of nubile sex partners for nominal fees need not stop in thailand and your days are not numbered as far this search of yours is concerned...so long as you are prepared to travel further and research more thoroughly. check the BANGKOK POST a couple of months ago when one reporter was in singapore covering a sexual slavery scandal and the cheap "imports" and locales where this cheap sex exist - before you put thailand at the bottom of your totem pole of cheap sex.

By all means, go to Wanchai, Mongkok, Tsim Sha Tsui in HK; Itawan in Seoul; Khaosiang in Taipei; Ginza, Roppongi, and Shinjuku in Tokyo; and all the neighborhoods of "flats" in Singapore; they prove my point exactly. None of them have anything close to the "in your face" inexpensive establishments that still flourish in Bangkok. Please note that in my original post I said "Of course, prostitution still exists and, in some cases, thrives in these cities, but not in the highly accessible, open, and inexpensive manner it previously had."

None of those areas or cities are remotely like they were 20 or 30 years ago. None of those areas still have large "foreign-friendly" clusters of huge go-go bars advertising "bar fines" of about (US) $12, where the girls provide service for an average of $50. (don't tell me Wan Chai - rip off places modeled after US and European go-go bars), none of the places have massive massage parlors located on major roads with dozens of girls sitting behind glass, openly offered to anybody who walks in for an average of $40. But all of these cities USED to have exactly this type of scene, as Bangkok does now. Sure, there's all sorts of sex for sale in these places "underground", if you know where to look. Again, as I said in my original post "And prostitution will always be available to those willing to pay a high enough price or who know where to look".

My original point (and I think that of KhunOr, to which I was responding) and the point that you are overlooking, is that the trend in Thailand is likely to be far less "out in the open" sex establishments because Thais are tired of the international reputation they have. It doesn't matter that Singapore, Taipei, HK, & Tokyo still have plenty of prostitution; it's no longer out in the open like it is in Bangkok. As you said in your post "so long as you are prepared to travel further and research more thoroughly". In Bangkok, there's still no need to research or travel further; it's right there in the open. Ask any random Westerner not overly familiar with Asia as to which city is synonomous with prostitution. You know what the answer is...and that's what I think the middle and upper class Thais want to change. I'm not putting Bangkok on the bottom of any "totem pole", just stating a fact.

By the way, I have no personal "quest" or search; those days are long behind me. I simply added that line for a little levity. And, naturally, there are lots of places other than Thailand with abundant, cheap prostitution. But that doesn't alter the fact that Thailand IS changing...

[KhunOr]

chmike, I agree 100% with what you have added to my short assessment.

For you boys who think that open sex-for-sale bars and establishments are an example (possibly the main factor to your mind) of the "freedom" that attracts you to Thailand, you'd better get it while you can. It will be a thing of the past within five years and can be ended very swiftly with a government that feels it has a mandate from the people (Thai citizens that is) to make that change.

[RKASA]

Hi.

I for one agree to these changes. Have you ever been in the situation where you actually NEEDED an internet cafe, maybe because your computer just died or you were far away from home when your boss called to tell you that you urgently need to reply to a business e-mail? Then you got to an internet cafe and ALL the computers were occupied with kids playing senseless shoot-em-up games, with more kids waiting in line already? So you went looking for another internet cafe and it was the exact same situation there? Happened to me, not once but twice already.

And how about parents bringing their three-year-olds to the theater to watch horror movies which, in the western world, would be restricted to 18+ audiences? No wonder everyone in this country believes in ghosts when they start "learning" of their presence in empty houses from such a young age. On the other hand if the captain of the Titanic is shown on an oil painting during a documentary about the Titanic, his cigar is pixelated. As is any beer bottle. However a minute later Singha and Johnny Walker run their advertisements (carefully avoiding to show the product, as if not even kids knew what that product is!)

So if all television is censored to be watched by toddlers, i very much welcome a rating system for movies. Just make sure it is done right! I.e. do NOT censor all movies to be suitable for The Children™ but run uncensored versions that may even show a nipple or a cigarette at times and make sure the audience is 16 or 18 or whatever required (ID check is simple).

They have this sort of rating everywhere in the developed world and nobody complains, so why not here?

Best regards.....

Thanh

The R rating in the US is not for the horror in the film, its the 5 seconds of a nud_e girl they cut into the film so they can get the rating they wanted, because R rated sells more tickets. True fact. And it has proven to up the sale of video games as well.

Don't write about what you don't know.

The R rating is also for graphic violence and language, not JUST nudity.

Well I have not paid to go see a movie in more then 17 years and I would never pay to see a stupid horror film anyway, maybe the rating system has got worse over time.  

As for the adding in nudity I can clearly recall an interview I saw where the producers said they do that, but yes that was many years ago.  I would say that means he does not know what he was talking about.  

It started out just nudity and its working its way to what you can think and when you can think it.   I can recall when it first came out I v been around awhile.  They may have added these other things over time.  and what does it matter, it is still censorship by any other name no matter where its done.  Like seeing a movie on TV and because a person puts a foot in the air its blocked out.  I mean come on. I know what  it means in Thailand, but the foot is not used in that way why do this stupid stuff.  Its only a exercise of control, you get reminded they are there.

I look at it this way.   A TV has a switch, use it.   People have a choice, don't watch it.    I have a life of my own, stay out of it.

and R ratings do improve sales its been talked about for years, or maybe they don't know what they are talking about ether..

And to sum up:  The rating system is a complete fail anyway.  Its been around a long time in the US.  I don't see any big improvement in the way kids are.  In fact, it has only made parents think someone else is at fault for all their problems, not them.  Which is the main reason many of them support it.  

Stop using the TV for a babysitter and talk to your kids.   Down with the nanny states.

[britmaveric]

^when things are all said /done Thai(s) do not care about prostitution nor will it ever change. Anyone who thinks this way is very naive. The more things change the more things stay the same.

Like every other law that Thai(s) propose they are simply ignored. It's downright comical. I remember 10yrs ago - the same thing was said back then that things are changing and what we see now will disappear. Hmmmm that worked out well - if anything prostitution has increased.

Thailand will be same same as always - no worries for the lady/lad punters and course the biggest contributors to prostitution are the thai(s) themselves.

[chameleon1977]

chmike, I agree 100% with what you have added to my short assessment.

For you boys who think that open sex-for-sale bars and establishments are an example (possibly the main factor to your mind) of the "freedom" that attracts you to Thailand, you'd better get it while you can. It will be a thing of the past within five years and can be ended very swiftly with a government that feels it has a mandate from the people (Thai citizens that is) to make that change.

I believe I may have implied that open sex-for-sale bars and establishments are an example of the "freedom" in my previous post. I'd be a liar if I was to say that wasn't something that attracted me when I first came to Thailand. After all Thai girls are imho some of the most beautiful in the world. However, being happily married to a Thai lady for many years now and with 3 children this is no longer a factor for me.

What is a factor is the culture of Thailand, the people and the ability to stay in the country. The last thing I want Thailand to become is anything like the western world, otherwise I might as well stay there. Too many rules, too many regulations and all the cr#p hidden behind them all. Why is Thailand clamping down so much on immigration and the things that attract tourism when tourism and western cash flow seems such a vital part of its economy? Are we saying here that the Thai people are unhappy with their culture, because that's not what I've seen.

[chameleon1977]

^when things are all said /done Thai(s) do not care about prostitution nor will it ever change. Anyone who thinks this way is very naive. The more things change the more things stay the same.

Like every other law that Thai(s) propose they are simply ignored. It's downright comical. I remember 10yrs ago - the same thing was said back then that things are changing and what we see now will disappear. Hmmmm that worked out well - if anything prostitution has increased.

Thailand will be same same as always - no worries for the lady/lad punters and course the biggest contributors to prostitution are the thai(s) themselves.

I hope you right, cause I like it just the way it is.

[Arkady]

What do they mean by films restricted for under 20 year olds? Will people over 20 not be able to watch them?

The current censorship law dates back to absolute monarchy, 1931 I think. The people who drafted it would have probably had an average age in their 50s. So they formed their views on morality in the late 19th century. It is time for a change and a ratings system which has been planned for years and it has nothing to do with the gaming thing which is a recent phenomenon. No doubt the ratings willl be applied in a way that displeases film makers and filmgoer alike but it is better than the status quo.

[gragra]

Someone else in here said something like this, but I'm too lazy to work out and say who it was, and it doesn;t matter - this law about the Karaoke thing, is just to help pacify all the Jap and Korean worker's wives, who are nagging their husbands who are out all the time about being out at the karaoke joints with whores.

The Jap and Korean missus' wants to go home....

Well, fear not, Jap and Korean sheilas!!! We are here to help, and we're hapy to say that now, your husband will not be tempted by the evil whores, he just just enjoy a regular, good old fashioned sing-along with his mates from the office after work.

So shut up, and let him spend more money here in Thailand for longer - and best you don't worry, and get back to your shopping fetish's on Thonglor and Siam.

...and if you need some servicing while daddy salaryman is out singing songs with his work buddies - just give me a call - I'll be happy to slip you a comforter...

Hey!!! A lot of those Jap and Korean sheilas are freakin' hawtttt....!!!!!!

[gragra]

^when things are all said /done Thai(s) do not care about prostitution nor will it ever change. Anyone who thinks this way is very naive. The more things change the more things stay the same.

Like every other law that Thai(s) propose they are simply ignored. It's downright comical. I remember 10yrs ago - the same thing was said back then that things are changing and what we see now will disappear. Hmmmm that worked out well - if anything prostitution has increased.

Thailand will be same same as always - no worries for the lady/lad punters and course the biggest contributors to prostitution are the thai(s) themselves.

Not true. There's a lot less naked snatch being waved in your face nowadays.

[d0om4gloom]

The over use of Playing Computer games by children of school age is serious in Thailand and damages their education . As a teacher here , playing Computer Games always comes top of students leisure time activity.

Why ? What should they be doing ? Reading educational books for the 6 hours instead ? Would you rather they go out on the streets and get into mischief ? Just what exactly should they be doing with their leisure time ? This law may be ridiculous in its unenforceability never mind the debate about the states/parents role in society but it at least it recognises thats what kids do !!! Why dont you recognise the skills that online gaming do develop ? In a computer age whats so wrong with developing enhanced hand/eye coordination, fast reactions etc etc. Yes 6 hours a day is excessive for any child to be doing any one thing but do tell, just what would you have them do with their leisure time ? Oh - I know, you'd introduce your own set of ideal laws on them instead.

Our individual loss of freedom is the worlds greatest unfolding disaster of the 21st century.

[coalminer]

[quoteThis will probably put a few people out of work.

No ...

The Karaoke Girls will simply learn to be Coyote girls (= in now) and wait until some (NOT) clever official will propose another law........

[zzaa09]

Why not allow the society and cultural order decide what might be be best {and not} for themselves. As in the natural marketplace....the age old process of having a very few deciding what might pass as moral and ethical behaviour for the greater masses.

[swifty5x5]

Dooh

[Teddy3943]

Laying down the law

New regulations on karaoke, Internet gaming, film ratings set to take effect

BANGKOK: -- The Cabinet has approved new regulations that prohibit karaoke parlours from providing drinking or singing partners to customers, with their business licences being revoked if they do.

Deputy government spokes-man Phumin Leetheeraprasert said the Cabinet also assigned the Office of the Council of State to adjust some of the wording before the regulations are implemented.

The new rules, which also cover Internet cafes, allow children to play computer games for more than three hours and up to six hours a day, says Culture Minister Teera Salakpetch.

Those under 15 will be allowed to use the service from 2pm to 8pm from Monday to Friday and from 10am to 8pm during holidays and school breaks, while those aged 15 to 18 can play games until 10pm, Teera says.

The Cabinet also agreed that an IT system to keep kids under 18 from playing computer games for more than three hours a day should be ready before a ministerial regulation amendment is proposed later, he added.

Seven movie categories

Other regulations approved concern film ratings. The minister said there were seven categories: educational films people are encouraged to see; films suitable for the general audience; films suitable for those over 13; films suitable for those over 15; films suitable for those over 18; films restricted for persons under 20, and films banned from being screened in the Kingdom.

Teera also said that the ministry has finished making the six rating symbols and would submit them to the National Committee on Film and Video in mid-August before they are implemented.

The symbols are: "Sor" (from the Thai word song serm that means "promoted") for educational films people are encouraged to see; "Thor" (from thua pai meaning "general") for films suitable for the general audience; "Nor 13+" (Nor is from naenam meaning "advisory") for films suitable for those over 13; "Nor 15+"; "Nor 18+", and "Chor 20+" (Chor is from chapor that means "specific") for films restricted for persons under 20.

The two regulations should take effect in mid-August.

-- The Nation 2009 07 29

Did Mr. A get these ideas from his recent visit to Viet Nam? Perhaps he had a meeting with the Department of Social Evils here in Viet Nam. !!!! It won't work and will lead to more corruption of Government Officials - when will they learn that rules & laws need to be able to be policed efficiently and be something the community as a whole would support.

Hello, hello good people, let's be careful and concider the feelings of the beloved PM! If he reads all the entries of this thread there is a chance he will kill himself and then the next law will be the banning of the Thaivisa forum...

[gragra]

The over use of Playing Computer games by children of school age is serious in Thailand and damages their education . As a teacher here , playing Computer Games always comes top of students leisure time activity.

Why ? What should they be doing ? Reading educational books for the 6 hours instead ? Would you rather they go out on the streets and get into mischief ? Just what exactly should they be doing with their leisure time ? This law may be ridiculous in its unenforceability never mind the debate about the states/parents role in society but it at least it recognises thats what kids do !!! Why dont you recognise the skills that online gaming do develop ? In a computer age whats so wrong with developing enhanced hand/eye coordination, fast reactions etc etc. Yes 6 hours a day is excessive for any child to be doing any one thing but do tell, just what would you have them do with their leisure time ? Oh - I know, you'd introduce your own set of ideal laws on them instead.

Our individual loss of freedom is the worlds greatest unfolding disaster of the 21st century.

Completely agree - better to have them spending their time indoors, than outside trying to run me down while riding around illegally on their little shitbox motorcyken....

...remember the flat-backed head syndrome? kids with flat heads, cos their mums left them lying on their backs too long? I'm sure there'll be some syndrome that comes out of this...and a prize to the first person who creatively names it.

[Chunkton]

"The karaoke thing is a huge double standard, why crack down on that and turn a blind eye to massage parlours and go go bars?"

I believe it is only a matter of time.

Without saying whether I agree with it or not, I do not expect to see the sex scene as-we-know-it today to look anything like this in Thailand in five years from now. There is a groundswell of resentment to it among common Thai people, especially women, and a growing movement among the elite towards cleaning up Thailand's image. Like it or not, cracking down on perceived and actual immorality (certainly in public) is a vote winner.

Would agree to this being a precursor. However one interesting thing I note is that they are hitting Karaokes, where the average girl is paler skinned and not your usual Isaan native. Occurs to me that if they shut down Pattaya bars they wouldn't have a hope in hel_l of winning seats in the NE where the Dems are weak already.