Touching The Head - A Definite No No

[maikee]

I've been having a bit of a laugh with my family about this whole you can't touch a Thai persons' head. It is taboo!!! a definite no no in all the Thai culture books. That may be.... because I've never really seen anyone "touching" someones head, but slapping? Whole nutha story. Be it a slap in the forehead or a whimsical but stern slap to the back of the head. Granted, it seems to only be amongst good friends and family and it's all in good fun. They sure don't seem to take any offense.

I asked my wife about this. She shrugged it off as yeah, not polite.. but it's just in the family (and close friends), so no big deal.

I've also seen this same act played out in some of the few Thai movies I've watched. So I'm guessing this (the slapping someone upside the head) is as much of Thai culture as not "touching" someones head is.

Granted, you won't be seeing me taking part in this part of Thai culture

Edited February 28, 2005 by maikee

[PvtDick]

Head touching has lost a lot of its sting in the past 20-30 years, yet remains one of the things that Lonely Planet and its ilk crow about like it will immediately send you to Thai ######. Just turn on the TV or take a walk, and you will see that it is not a big deal anymore.

[PvtDick]

That was Thai "h-e-l-l".

[toastwars]

I killed a rat in front of my thai frends last night, not sure on their reactions, but they are always stomping roaches so I guess it's ok?

[Shola]

Well I made this mistake as a newbie in Thailand and let me tell you it wasn't a trivial thing. I was training Muay Thai (At what was then my hubbys gym) and a real newbie here, one of the Thai guys had his hair tied up in a small 'pinapple' on top of his head, while he was tutoring me, it was bobbing up and down and I laughed, not being able to speak Thai, I signalled with my hands and patted the top of his 'pineapple', he immedatly got really upset and stormed off.

I was a bit miffed untill the owner came over (My hubby but not then) and explained that I should 'wai' to him and apologise, which I did, and then of course he said 'Maibenrai'.

The only other big no no I comited here as a newbie was sitting next to a monk on a bus! Luckily a guy got up and offered to swap seats with me, and I did, finding out later what it was all about!

Guess I should have read 'lonely Planet!!'

[britmaveric]

I can't see any scenario I would touch a person's head anyways. (patting on the head seems smth I would do for a dog rather than a person)

[Pattaya_Fox]

I killed a rat in front of my thai frends last night, not sure on their reactions, but they are always stomping roaches so I guess it's ok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was the Rat of human form??.....not a tpv was it??

[Golf]

Touching my head? Fine, just let me do the nose-picking myself.

Golf

[350torana]

I also read that Planet book that head touching is taboo (take it with a grain of salt, me thinks) . How about if it your other half? Plently of times we touch each other on the head. Our toddler daughter really enjoys me stroking her mum's hair and saying" good dog" . I think all sanuck sanuck .

I noticed one thing my wife did get a bit upset about was when khun nong did a supermarket tantrum, .Lyining on the floor crying, i nudged her with my foot to get up. The missus was not happy.

I dunno which is worse, the head or the foot ?

[Darknight]

I can't see any scenario I would touch a person's head anyways. (patting on the head seems smth I would do for a dog rather than a person)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i sure like patting your avatar britt

Touching my head?  Fine, just let me do the nose-picking myself. 

Golf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hilarious golf

[booma]

I also read that Planet book that head touching is taboo (take it with a grain of salt, me thinks) . How about if it your other half? Plently of times we touch each other on the head. Our toddler daughter really enjoys me stroking her mum's hair and saying" good dog" . I think all sanuck sanuck .

  I noticed one thing my wife did get a bit upset about was when  khun nong did a supermarket tantrum, .Lyining  on the floor crying, i nudged her with my foot to get up.  The missus was not happy.

  I dunno which is worse, the head or the foot ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I once playfully kicked a female friend of mine whilst walking in a park, I should've known better, but she went ballistic, I thought she was never going to speak to me again, eventually she came round. This girl is 22 and fairly westernised in many ways.

I'd say feet are worse than heads.

B

[Bryan in Isaan]

It seems like much of the trouble from the above posts comes from joking, playing, funning, etc. with the Thais. I might be a killjoy, but I have found it is easier to play it safe not to joke much with them. Humor doesn't translate.

Bryan

[pautai]

there is no room for phrenologists in LOS then ?

thai family laugh about this old canard tale.

maybe strangers but any stranger would get upset if you touched his head .

but family children no .

[SEAtramp]

The touching of head and pointing of feet is still a taboo among many social classes of thai society. And by this i mean it can be almost any Thai. Granted there are exceptions, relaxed maybe for the benefit of farangs. Yet mainstream Thai's, these values are very much adhered to. In fact it goes slightly further.

It is not polite to bring in contact with the head anything associated with your feet. This is also important in the home. Thai's wouldn’t wash lower garments like socks together with head scarves. The same goes for pillowcases which are used for your head. And would not hang them on the clothes line alongside your socks.

[sriracha john]

The touching of head and pointing of feet is still a taboo among many social classes of thai society.  And by this i mean it can be almost any Thai. Granted there are exceptions, relaxed maybe for the benefit of farangs. Yet mainstream Thai's, these values are very much adhered to. In fact it goes slightly further.

It is not polite to bring in contact with the head anything associated with your feet. This is also important in the home. Thai's wouldn’t wash lower garments like socks together with head scarves. The same goes for pillowcases which are used for your head. And would not hang them on the clothes line alongside your socks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can also add stowing shoes overhead as in a bus's overhead stowage rack. Wasn't thinking that one all the way through before being corrected abruptly.

[SEAtramp]

Can also add stowing shoes overhead as in a bus's overhead stowage rack. Wasn't thinking that one all the way through before being corrected abruptly.

Which brings up the most important of social Thai ettiquete. The non wearing of shoes in homes, schools,temples,etc etc etc----please feel free to add.

[maikee]

The touching of head and pointing of feet is still a taboo among many social classes of thai society.  And by this i mean it can be almost any Thai. Granted there are exceptions, relaxed maybe for the benefit of farangs. Yet mainstream Thai's, these values are very much adhered to. In fact it goes slightly further.

It is not polite to bring in contact with the head anything associated with your feet. This is also important in the home. Thai's wouldn’t wash lower garments like socks together with head scarves. The same goes for pillowcases which are used for your head. And would not hang them on the clothes line alongside your socks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, my initial post was supposed to be light-hearted... Just something I had noticed. I probably would not of even brought it up if I had not been seeing it in some of the Thai movies I have seen. Amongst family and friends though they can sure smack each other pretty hard

I can also see how things become a lot more rigid, socially, as you move up into more mainstream, as you put it, areas... further up the social ladder maybe?.. No different then in other cultures ( your not eating your salad with your dinner fork are you?)

I'm pretty cognizant of Thai customs. I care about how I sit making sure about where my feet are pointed. It's also not polite to sit on the floor with your knees bent while holding your knees with your arms. (Takes the stress off the lower back when sitting for a long time.. I need to do more situps ) When walking in front of people who are seated, I always lower my body as I walk past.. those sorts of things. You know when you lean back in your chair and put your hands behind your head (interlocking your fingers)? Not polite.

I wasn't aware of mixing sorts of clothes when washing. Although it makes sense. I asked my wife about it, since a bunch of clothes are done every day. She concurred. socks and underwear and pillowcases... will never meet inside a washing machine or a scrub bucket. However, according to her anyway, It is okay for a sock and a pillowcase to co-mingle on a drying line (they are already clean). But, she's probably going by the more relaxed non-mainstream rules I wonder what they do in Hotels?

Just remembered my latest faux pas. Not sure where dogs eating out of household dishes falls on the screw up scale.. In Western countries... at least from what I've seen (and what I used to do), it is common to give the family pooch scraps of food from one of the dinner plates. We've got one of those "homestead" dogs that lives here.. Good dog. Very protective and polite.. always waits quietly outside the door for food. Mom said to go give him the food that was left in one of the dishes... kicked into Western thinking mode and put the dish outside for him to enjoy some food...oops.. She laughed and understood, I felt embarassed.

Edited March 1, 2005 by maikee

[pnustedt]

I sit making sure about where my feet are pointed.

I have this particular problem during ceremonies at the Wat. Everyone else can sit for hours with their legs tucked underneath them. I'm in pain after 15 minutes and have to put my feet forward (pointing at the monks). I apologise for my inadequacies with an ambarrassed smile and I seem to get away with it!

However, I can't get away with it at dinner - my feet have to be pointing away from the food - I bought them a dining table and chairs but the family persist on eating on the floor I just have to leave them with my plate and sit alone at the table.

[Joey Boy]

The only other big no no I comited here as a newbie was sitting next to a monk on a bus! Luckily a guy got up and offered to swap seats with me, and I did, finding out later what it was all about!

Guess I should have read 'lonely Planet!!'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is it all about?... I was on the skytrain once, in what I now know to be the monks "seat", a monk got on and gestured me to move, as the skytrain wasnt busy and the monk was a big guy I moved 2 down rather than only to the next one along. He started patting on the one next to him gesturing me to sit there?

Farangs arent supposed to sit next to monks??? Or is the lonely planet talkin a load of nackers for a change

[Thaiboxer]

Shola...what is the name of your husband's Muay Thai gym? Was he a professional fighter before?

[Jeff Jarvis]

My wife claims the neighbor is hanging the underwear up too high on the clothes line.

I didn't think it was a big deal untill the police got involved.

I'm not kidding.

[aletta]

From what i have seen over the years in Isaarn it appears ok to touch the head of those younger or of a lower social rank or immediate family.

[Steve2UK]

I sit making sure about where my feet are pointed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have this particular problem during ceremonies at the Wat. Everyone else can sit for hours with their legs tucked underneath them. I'm in pain after 15 minutes and have to put my feet forward (pointing at the monks). I apologise for my inadequacies with an ambarrassed smile and I seem to get away with it!

However, I can't get away with it at dinner - my feet have to be pointing away from the food - I bought them a dining table and chairs but the family persist on eating on the floor I just have to leave them with my plate and sit alone at the table.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In both Wats and other (domestic/formal) situations, I've seen Thai's sitting on the floor taking the main weight on their "bottom" and with their legs bent sideways, feet tucked in as close as possible. Better if you can rest your hand on them (a gesture to covering them - or maybe have something to put over them?) but not the end of the world if you can't. Just about anything is better than feet (soles) shown to the monk or Buddha.

You might also find it useful to get yourself one of those triangular-section cushions to help support you from one side when sitting in the same position for eating? In any case, just about all Thai appreciate the difficulties of farangs and equally appreciate any effort the farang makes to go even a little way to "conform". It's not following the exact rule that counts - it's the thought(fulness).

[seahorse]

The only other big no no I comited here as a newbie was sitting next to a monk on a bus! Luckily a guy got up and offered to swap seats with me, and I did, finding out later what it was all about!

Guess I should have read 'lonely Planet!!'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is it all about?... I was on the skytrain once, in what I now know to be the monks "seat", a monk got on and gestured me to move, as the skytrain wasnt busy and the monk was a big guy I moved 2 down rather than only to the next one along. He started patting on the one next to him gesturing me to sit there?

Farangs arent supposed to sit next to monks??? Or is the lonely planet talkin a load of nackers for a change

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOMEN aren't supposed to sit next to a monk because monks aren't supposed to touch women.

[Insight]

A friend of mine bumped into a pissed Thai guy around Nana around 2am. To make a bit of a joke about it, he lifted the cap the Thai guy was wearing up a bit and smiled. The Thai guy didn't think it was funny.

5 minutes later my friend turned around to this Thai guy running after him down the soi with another Thai guy. My friend got stabbed near the kidneys. Twice.

This is a true story, no BS. I'm very careful nowadays with this head lark.

[seahorse]

A friend of mine bumped into a pissed Thai guy around Nana around 2am. To make a bit of a joke about it, he lifted the cap the Thai guy was wearing up a bit and smiled. The Thai guy didn't think it was funny.

5 minutes later my friend turned around to this Thai guy running after him down the soi with another Thai guy. My friend got stabbed near the kidneys. Twice.

This is a true story, no BS. I'm very careful nowadays with this head lark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This reminded me of a time I saw a pissed farang patting a Thai guy on the head, like you would a dog. The Thai guy was NOT happy about it. I wouldn't have been too happy about it myself. But what the Thai guy did was he went and got a gun and threatened the farang with it. That farang has now left Thailand.

Edited March 1, 2005 by seahorse

[Shola]

Shola...what is the name of your husband's Muay Thai gym? Was he a professional fighter before?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No he never fought proffesionaly but he trained alot of foreigners, you probably know the name of the gym, although it's not open anymore,

Sor Thanikul Gym

It was opened in 1977 by his grandad, Krau Thanikul who was unfortunatly assasinated in the early nineties.

Nut reopened it for a few years and had some succesfull wins but it was all very hard due to him being the grandson of someone who was very influential, and some thought that he might be trying to follow in his grandads footsteps, which became dangerous for him.

So sadly he closed the gym but the name lives on in Muay Thai history.

[Shola]

The only other big no no I comited here as a newbie was sitting next to a monk on a bus! Luckily a guy got up and offered to swap seats with me, and I did, finding out later what it was all about!

Guess I should have read 'lonely Planet!!'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is it all about?... I was on the skytrain once, in what I now know to be the monks "seat", a monk got on and gestured me to move, as the skytrain wasnt busy and the monk was a big guy I moved 2 down rather than only to the next one along. He started patting on the one next to him gesturing me to sit there?

Farangs arent supposed to sit next to monks??? Or is the lonely planet talkin a load of nackers for a change

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's only females who can't sit next to monks, as if a monk is touched by, or accidently touches a female, he will have to go in to solitary for 3 days and nights, pray profusly and fast to be 'cleansed/forgiven'

It's also just polite to give up a seat for a monk, but only men can sit next to them.

Whenever I see a monk, I just give them a wide berth!

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Shola @ 2005-02-28 22:39:01)

The only other big no no I comited here as a newbie was sitting next to a monk on a bus! Luckily a guy got up and offered to swap seats with me, and I did, finding out later what it was all about!

Guess I should have read 'lonely Planet!!'

What is it all about?... I was on the skytrain once, in what I now know to be the monks "seat", a monk got on and gestured me to move, as the skytrain wasnt busy and the monk was a big guy I moved 2 down rather than only to the next one along. He started patting on the one next to him gesturing me to sit there?

Farangs arent supposed to sit next to monks??? Or is the lonely planet talkin a load of nackers for a change 

I never see many monks on the skytrain. Funny as Thai monks are different from monks in other countries I have lived. Buddhist monks in Tibet, Nepal and India would never dream of taking someones seat.

I used to think that all monks in Bangkok must be spiritually enlightened beings close to Buddhahood. Nothing could be farthere from the truth, IMO. MOst are monks for a short time to follow tradition and don't want to be there. I could tell you a few stories about drinking and stufff with monks, but won't.

I have sat next to hundreds of monks. It is only women who can't sit next to them. Similar to women not being able to give them something. Often a women on a bus will ask me to give a monk something if I am sitting next to him. Not sure about gay monks, this doesn't make much sense.

Yes the Lonely planet are talking crap. I have noticed that pissed Thai guys don't sit to monks. Dirty people too. maybe this is why LP say the backpacker sshouldn't sit next to a monk.

[qwertyuiop]

I often think that many of these so called 'taboos' are rolled out to make us farangs feel uncomfortable. ie they apply to farangs/outsiders 100% of the time and to thais only when they feel like it.

Personally I try never to touch the head of others. point my feet or use them to close doors, step over someone who is in the way etc but I regulalry see Thais do the above when they find it is more convenient.

Howver this situation is probably true of most if not all cultures/countries - non-adherence to customs/rules most noticeable when perpertrated by outsiders