Police Need Help?

[thailandlover]

After reading this story about the Spanish man who is starting a campaign to help fund the police, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Spanish-Busi...ds-t284652.html

I wondered, we all hear stories about how the police have to buy their own guns, uniforms and so on. That they are poorly paid. Is this really true? Does anyone know the real facts behind the police, their training and the investigative resources available to them?

I don't expect CSI but surely they must have some technology?

[neverdie]

Ive met a few on the side of the roadway that need some physiatric help.

Years ago I was speaking to an off duty Police Officer (young and worked on the street) who told me he only made 9,000 THB per month. He got housed at a Police type barracks, I'm not sure how much they deducted from his wage for that.

I also know another Policeman who is somewhat more senior and works off the street, in someones home and he is paid considerably more.

[Just1Voice]

I know of one who's not doing too badly. He recently bought a house in the development where I live. Nothing really special about that, except that he bought the 2nd biggest, and 2nd most expensive house in here. Price on the house: ฿4.5 million. He bought the lot next to it. ฿280,000. He has a brand new Toyota truck, the biggest you can get, and a 2 yr old BMW. Since moving in a few weeks ago he's also had over ฿200,000 of improvements done, for which, I'm told, he paid cash for. Would anyone other than me care to speculate that he didn't do all this on a cop's (legitimate) salary?

[waza]

The cop in our street lives in a 3 mill house, saw the police paddy wagon drop off a huge sound system the other day. He also has the latest Toyota pickup.

[Soutpeel]

The cop in our street lives in a 3 mill house, saw the police paddy wagon drop off a huge sound system the other day. He also has the latest Toyota pickup.

It would appear based on this post and previous posts that Thailands finest, may not be schooled very well in modern policing techniques, but very well schooled in "capitalism" and "business" methodology...

[verydumbubba]

Thaksin has a Texas MBA & BIB

Bubba

[zzaa09]

One would think that in a general police-state infrastructure, this body would be well underwritten....

[smokie36]

I know of one who's not doing too badly. He recently bought a house in the development where I live. Nothing really special about that, except that he bought the 2nd biggest, and 2nd most expensive house in here. Price on the house: ฿4.5 million. He bought the lot next to it. ฿280,000. He has a brand new Toyota truck, the biggest you can get, and a 2 yr old BMW. Since moving in a few weeks ago he's also had over ฿200,000 of improvements done, for which, I'm told, he paid cash for. Would anyone other than me care to speculate that he didn't do all this on a cop's (legitimate) salary?

Its great to hear the thai police are meeting all their crime targets and picking up well deserved bonuses.

Very reassuring.

[beerchang]

I know of one who's not doing too badly. He recently bought a house in the development where I live. Nothing really special about that, except that he bought the 2nd biggest, and 2nd most expensive house in here. Price on the house: ฿4.5 million. He bought the lot next to it. ฿280,000. He has a brand new Toyota truck, the biggest you can get, and a 2 yr old BMW. Since moving in a few weeks ago he's also had over ฿200,000 of improvements done, for which, I'm told, he paid cash for. Would anyone other than me care to speculate that he didn't do all this on a cop's (legitimate) salary?

Nope, I like it here, being alive an' stuff! Whats his full name and where's he stationed?

[mahtin]

Individual Corruption

Public confidence in the police force is generally low. This is confirmed by the Transparency International Global Corruption Barometer 2009 in which a significant amount of citizens report paying bribes to the police. This view of the police is confirmed by Freedom House 2008. Another sign of low public confidence is that the Ombudsman receives many complaints about the police and how police officers handle their duties.

The Thai police are known to be involved in trafficking of women and children and other illegal activities.

Business Corruption

According to the US Department of State Investment Climate Statement 2009, companies should be aware that the police are believed to be a major participant in illegal activities. For example, there is evidence that the police receive payments for ignoring the trafficking of women and children.

A sense of impunity is prevalent in the police force, as police officers are seldom prosecuted, let alone convicted of wrongdoings. Instead of facing criminal charges, they will simply be transferred to another district.

Political Corruption

Police corruption is perceived to be nearly impossible to curb in Thailand because the police are self-regulating and self-auditing. Furthermore, this paves the way toward impunity, and the police use their power to seek profits from illegal companies. The police reportedly receive substantial sums of money from illegal gambling operators and other illegal actors in return for police protection.

Frequency

Transparency International: Global Corruption Barometer 2009:

- 32% of households who had contact with the police in 2008 report to have paid a bribe.

[roskruge]

Coming up on the train from Hat-Jai part of the way I was sitting next to a Police Officer (1 pip on shoulder) (he needed to show me his gun to prove he was a Police Officer.). We started to talk about corruption. He told me his boss spends the equivalent of 1 month salary every night gambling. He told me "I am not corrupt"," but if someone offers me money I will accept it". His interpretation of corruption and mine differ somewhat.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Coming up on the train from Hat-Jai part of the way I was sitting next to a Police Officer (1 pip on shoulder) (he needed to show me his gun to prove he was a Police Officer.). We started to talk about corruption. He told me his boss spends the equivalent of 1 month salary every night gambling. He told me "I am not corrupt"," but if someone offers me money I will accept it". His interpretation of corruption and mine differ somewhat.

And this is the problem, they accept money from the Thai public (via taxes) to do a job, and then accept money from all and sundry for not doing it. They don't see this as being corrupt, even though everyone says it is. The cognitive dissonance must be immense.

I believe the key to this lies in the practice. 100 years or so ago, an appointee to government, judiciary or police were not paid a salary. They were expected to make their own money from their post.

They just do not recognise this as being corrupt, indeed, their everyday experience of people being willing to pay must be prima facae evidence that it is all OK, and in this I am sure many readers are (like me) not blameless. I have also paid the odd 200THB to avoid a speeding ticket (trumped up), or for changing lanes (trumped up).

IMHO, there only two ways to stamp out corruption among the police, which are these:

1. Everyone refuses to pay and blow the whistle. Which just isnt going to happen.

2. Make the corruption legal (as is apparently happening now) by giving the police a personal share of the tickets they write. Of course this is only going to affect the small money. The protection, gambling and smuggling rackets cannot be treated in this way and so they will just continue.

Eventually, the world out there will just shun Thailand, and when that happens, the Thais just won't be able to understand why the stupid mentally retarded foreigner doesn't understand Thailand. In my humble but professional opinion, many if not most of the 'pooyay' Thais are delusional, especially in the way they see themselves and believe the world should also see them. In this they are not unique but the extent of it can be truly remarkable. This is why the Thai pooyay is able to ignore widely held opinion and clear evidence when it doesn't conform to their own self-portrait.

I do think the OP post was wonderful though, A delicious piss-take made all the more delicious because the police (and many others) didn't realise what a huge piss-take it was.

Kev

[samran]

My take on it is this.

I don't disagree with the facts printed above that the entire police force is basically a shambles at all levels. But I also believe, based on experience, that there is a significant minority of basically decent policemen.

I also have a hypothesis, in that 90 odd percent of coppers here will never be rich in any way, and only stand a remote chance of hitting the big time in terms of wealth. And yes, most are underpaid, and have to buy much of their equipment themselves. This is true across the civil service.

If you read that book The Rouge Economist (I think it is called, by Stephen Levitt) he has a chapter in there called 'why do drug dealers still live at home'.

He goes on to explain, despite the perception that it is easy money, drug dealing is a low wage job, barely better than minimum wage and has a lot more danger given they pass the profits up the food chain. He also explains for most that they never make it to the top, and either drop out to get a better paying job, or end up going to jail or getting killed.

I think this is a similar thing with the Thai police force, except the going to jail part. In most cases, they will always be a junior or mid level officer, and in many cases they are not even within reach of the easy corruption pickings (like most civil servants).

[Bisto]

Coming up on the train from Hat-Jai part of the way I was sitting next to a Police Officer (1 pip on shoulder) (he needed to show me his gun to prove he was a Police Officer.). We started to talk about corruption. He told me his boss spends the equivalent of 1 month salary every night gambling. He told me "I am not corrupt"," but if someone offers me money I will accept it". His interpretation of corruption and mine differ somewhat.

And this is the problem, they accept money from the Thai public (via taxes) to do a job, and then accept money from all and sundry for not doing it. They don't see this as being corrupt, even though everyone says it is. The cognitive dissonance must be immense.

I believe the key to this lies in the practice. 100 years or so ago, an appointee to government, judiciary or police were not paid a salary. They were expected to make their own money from their post.

They just do not recognise this as being corrupt, indeed, their everyday experience of people being willing to pay must be prima facae evidence that it is all OK, and in this I am sure many readers are (like me) not blameless. I have also paid the odd 200THB to avoid a speeding ticket (trumped up), or for changing lanes (trumped up).

IMHO, there only two ways to stamp out corruption among the police, which are these:

1. Everyone refuses to pay and blow the whistle. Which just isnt going to happen.

2. Make the corruption legal (as is apparently happening now) by giving the police a personal share of the tickets they write. Of course this is only going to affect the small money. The protection, gambling and smuggling rackets cannot be treated in this way and so they will just continue.

Eventually, the world out there will just shun Thailand, and when that happens, the Thais just won't be able to understand why the stupid mentally retarded foreigner doesn't understand Thailand. In my humble but professional opinion, many if not most of the 'pooyay' Thais are delusional, especially in the way they see themselves and believe the world should also see them. In this they are not unique but the extent of it can be truly remarkable. This is why the Thai pooyay is able to ignore widely held opinion and clear evidence when it doesn't conform to their own self-portrait.

I do think the OP post was wonderful though, A delicious piss-take made all the more delicious because the police (and many others) didn't realise what a huge piss-take it was.

Kev

Kev it is only government policy that will change police mentality and that will not change till policy makers change the laws.

taking into account what is happening in Iraq police corruption is still very prevalent no matter what laws are there oh and no matter what police are being paid .

it basically comes down to what people will except. That is unfortunately the bottom line corruption in Thailand is wildly excepted.

[bojo]

Coming up on the train from Hat-Jai part of the way I was sitting next to a Police Officer (1 pip on shoulder) (he needed to show me his gun to prove he was a Police Officer.). We started to talk about corruption. He told me his boss spends the equivalent of 1 month salary every night gambling. He told me "I am not corrupt"," but if someone offers me money I will accept it". His interpretation of corruption and mine differ somewhat.

Entrapment, you've got no chance in Thailand then!

Regards Bojo

[oldsparrow]

The police don't "have to" buy their own gun. As the law allows the police to use of private gun they prefer to buy their as in many cases the officer ones are too old, outdate or not of their favorite model.

For the kind of training that you guy expats may allow yourselves to recognise, there is local ILEA Bangkok and sometimes oversea specialised training ie. explosive training in New Mexico etc.

Underpaid - Yes

Uniform - The office provides too few so most bought more out of their pockets.

[glegolo]

Up here in Isaan - Chaiyaphum - it is a say between us falangs -"biggest houses here owned by policemen". But mind you, now we are talking about officiers, not every policemen walking the streets or drive their policecars or motorbikes.

These guys earn maybe their 10.000 baht per month.

Glegolo

[Beacher]

Coming up on the train from Hat-Jai part of the way I was sitting next to a Police Officer (1 pip on shoulder) (he needed to show me his gun to prove he was a Police Officer.). We started to talk about corruption. He told me his boss spends the equivalent of 1 month salary every night gambling. He told me "I am not corrupt"," but if someone offers me money I will accept it". His interpretation of corruption and mine differ somewhat.

This guy's boss must be the worst gambler in the world.

Perhaps if the senior officers were given some gambling lessons, there'd be less corruption because they might win occassionally and not need a wad to lose every night.

[MekhongKurt]

After reading this story about the Spanish man who is starting a campaign to help fund the police, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Spanish-Busi...ds-t284652.html

I wondered, we all hear stories about how the police have to buy their own guns, uniforms and so on. That they are poorly paid. Is this really true? Does anyone know the real facts behind the police, their training and the investigative resources available to them?

I don't expect CSI but surely they must have some technology?

I have two friends, one a police colonel who commands a station upcountry, the other an immigration police senior sergeant major. Both have told me in years past that the police are genuinely hamstrung in some instances by lack of financial resources, especially at either end of the technology scale: uniforms, guns, ammo, badges, etc. at the low end, and the CSI sort of stuff you mention at the high end.

That doesn't mean that there aren't some dedicated, very competent officers, including in various investigative units -- despite the negative public image of the police generally.

You may have noticed that often there are two officers astride a single police motorcycle. There are two good reasons for that: lack of money to buy them in the first place, and lack of money to fuel and maintain them in the second place even if they had the money to buy them.

The subject hasn't come up anytime recently, so maybe things have improved. And there sure was a lot of room for that.

There are some matters the Thai police take very, very seriously, and they'll move mountains to try to get to the bottom of them. Crimes against foreigners (Western ones, Japanese, etc. anyway) involving violence, for instance.

I'm not offering up a defense nor excuse for any incompetent and/or corrupt officer, just trying to acknowledge there are some good ones, good ones with limited police resources (unless the situation has changed for the better and I just don't know it).

[dr_Pat_Pong]

For everyones information the Royal Thai Police joined ThaiVisa yesterday.

[abdulrahman]

I wondered, we all hear stories about how the police have to buy their own guns, uniforms and so on. That they are poorly paid. Is this really true? Does anyone know the real facts behind the police, their training and the investigative resources available to them?

I don't expect CSI but surely they must have some technology?

I have two friends, one a police colonel who commands a station upcountry, the other an immigration police senior sergeant major. Both have told me in years past that the police are genuinely hamstrung in some instances by lack of financial resources, especially at either end of the technology scale: uniforms, guns, ammo, badges, etc. at the low end, and the CSI sort of stuff you mention at the high end.

That doesn't mean that there aren't some dedicated, very competent officers, including in various investigative units -- despite the negative public image of the police generally.

They don't HAVE to buy their own guns,they WANT a big,shiny gun,and they can buy it at half the normal price!

Training?Can someone translate the word to Thai?Mostly Hollywood movies!

Hamstrung by lack of financial resources?Happily they have a lot of personal resources. How much is your colonel friend paid?Don't even think to ask for what!

There are some dedicated,NOT very competent officers,that go with the flow,The public,Thais and farangs know this,and it reflects on the image!

[Thongkorn]

If you want to see how the other half lives IE Thai policemen. Go to the traffic lights on second road in Pattaya go through them then turn first right , you will find some grotty little rooms that the police live in on the right. but when a top Thai minister says that the policeman's job is not to protect citizens it is to put food on the policeman's table says it all , I think the pay now is about 16,000 baht a month.