Training Thai Staff From Foreign Engineer

[sunray69]

I am the managing director of two IT companies, one located in Athens (Greece) and one located here in Bangkok. The BKK company provides software development since 4 years for the needs of the Greek company.

Somehow the needs of the Greek company have changed as well as coding technologies and my Thai staff needs proper training.

I want one of my Greek engineer to come here to train my Thai staff for a period of 2 weeks.

So since my Greek engineer is exclusively employed by the Greek company (with address exclusively in Greece) and not by the Thai company what does he need to come here and can he provide the training without a proper work permit ??? I know you ll tell me that everybody "working" must have a work permit but is it possible my Greek company to invoice my Thai company for this service to be done here ???

Any help would be much appreciated...

[Explorer]

to my understanding, as long the person does not get paid in Thailand or paid by the Thai company then it is fine.

but i bet other experts here would give you a clearer picture.

Explorer

[thaiphoon]

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits" and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling. So yes, he should have a work permit to work legally.

Edited August 19, 2009 by thaiphoon

[sunray69]

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". So yes, he should have a work permit to work legally.

OK but to work for which company ?? This guy is not employed by any Thai company just by my greek company...

[thaiphoon]

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". So yes, he should have a work permit to work legally.

OK but to work for which company ?? This guy is not employed by any Thai company just by my greek company...

But the law is based on the individual. Who is the individual working for. Answer is he is working (providing services) to a thai company. So he needs a WP.

[ubonjoe]

I am the managing director of two IT companies, one located in Athens (Greece) and one located here in Bangkok. The BKK company provides software development since 4 years for the needs of the Greek company.

Somehow the needs of the Greek company have changed as well as coding technologies and my Thai staff needs proper training.

I want one of my Greek engineer to come here to train my Thai staff for a period of 2 weeks.

So since my Greek engineer is exclusively employed by the Greek company (with address exclusively in Greece) and not by the Thai company what does he need to come here and can he provide the training without a proper work permit ??? I know you ll tell me that everybody "working" must have a work permit but is it possible my Greek company to invoice my Thai company for this service to be done here ???

Any help would be much appreciated...

I suggest you at least get him a single entry B visa from the embassy in Greece. Just a letter on a letter on company letter head should be enough.

Many companies do this on a regular basis when they need somebody to come in for a short term job assignment.

Although by the definition of the law he does need a work permit. But it is not very practicle to get one for such a short period of time.

[thaiphoon]

I am the managing director of two IT companies, one located in Athens (Greece) and one located here in Bangkok. The BKK company provides software development since 4 years for the needs of the Greek company.

Somehow the needs of the Greek company have changed as well as coding technologies and my Thai staff needs proper training.

I want one of my Greek engineer to come here to train my Thai staff for a period of 2 weeks.

So since my Greek engineer is exclusively employed by the Greek company (with address exclusively in Greece) and not by the Thai company what does he need to come here and can he provide the training without a proper work permit ??? I know you ll tell me that everybody "working" must have a work permit but is it possible my Greek company to invoice my Thai company for this service to be done here ???

Any help would be much appreciated...

I suggest you at least get him a single entry B visa from the embassy in Greece. Just a letter on a letter on company letter head should be enough.

Many companies do this on a regular basis when they need somebody to come in for a short term job assignment.

Although by the definition of the law he does need a work permit. But it is not very practicle to get one for such a short period of time.

Is up to you what you do but, as already said, he needs a WP to work legally and that is not difficult to obtain. Just be aware that the penalties for getting caught working without a WP are very severe under Thai labour laws, including up to 5 years jail time.

[heretostay]

The Thai company functions as a supplier to the Greek company, right? The Greek company is the customer.

Customers regularly send their people (buyers, technical specialists - anyone at all) to visit suppliers (even in other countries) to meet and improve the relationship between the two companies, and to inspect the "production line" (in this case the software development team).

Your Greek engineer is spending two weeks liaising/coordinating with your supplier in Thailand. He will explain things to the Thai supplier's team about the Greek company's new requirements, review past glitches/problems, inform about new rules, regulations, and standards.

He should have with him an overview schedule of who he is meeting with each day and the topics to be discussed. It would be best that he NOT have any training materials in his bags, as that could be misinterpreted.

For such business visits, I don't think a visa is needed for European Union nationals. (In all my years as an international businessperson, the only visas I ever got were tourist visas, and those only for countries without a visa exempt program like the one in Thailand.)

Every multi-national company in the world does this sort of thing. Low profile. Don't carry materials that could be misinterpreted. Remember, this is a coordination trip only.

Good luck.

[NCFC]

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". So yes, he should have a work permit to work legally.

OK but to work for which company ?? This guy is not employed by any Thai company just by my greek company...

But the law is based on the individual. Who is the individual working for. Answer is he is working (providing services) to a thai company. So he needs a WP.

Surely not. The Greek guy is employed by the Greek company. His salary is paid by the Greek company. He does not require a work permit. Think of all the sales reps over for a couple of weeks of meetings, none of them require a work permit unless they are employed by the Thai company.

[Mario2008]

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". So yes, he should have a work permit to work legally.

OK but to work for which company ?? This guy is not employed by any Thai company just by my greek company...

But the law is based on the individual. Who is the individual working for. Answer is he is working (providing services) to a thai company. So he needs a WP.

Surely not. The Greek guy is employed by the Greek company. His salary is paid by the Greek company. He does not require a work permit. Think of all the sales reps over for a couple of weeks of meetings, none of them require a work permit unless they are employed by the Thai company.

He does require a work permit as under the definition of the Thai labour law is working. It is as simpel as that.

A salesrep. should strictly speaking also need a WP, but as they only conducs business in the forms of making contracts it is more or less allowed.

[david96]

See the MFA website for infomation on visas and work permits.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2492

Look at section 4.

One Stop Service Centre for Visas and Work Permits.

4.2 ( 9 ) Foreigner who is an expert on information technology.

[Soutpeel]

Surely not. The Greek guy is employed by the Greek company. His salary is paid by the Greek company. He does not require a work permit. Think of all the sales reps over for a couple of weeks of meetings, none of them require a work permit unless they are employed by the Thai company.

Yes he does under the definition of Thai law.

Dont see what the big deal is, if he is here to train people for a period of two weeks or less, get an Non-imm B and get an "emergency" work permit, you can have it within 24 hours.

We do this all the time for short term personnel coming to Thailand to work.

[ingvar]

Strictly from the law he must have a WP.

You cannot even wash your car in Thailand without a work permit. The logic being that a Thai could do the job so in a sense you are stealing a potential work opportunity from a Thai.

But I wouldnt worry about a 2 week "coordination" trip, that is grey area and difficult to define under Thai law as this would not steal any job opportunity from a Thai.

[Explorer]

sorry OP, don't mean to hijack the thread but i do have questions with regards to the same issue -

1) Since i am in the event management line, and i do have event management companies from abroad that comes to Thailand to manage either conventions, conferences or special events (normally with the help of the local event team). These event management companies are being contracted and fees are being paid back in their own countries by their country companies. So does this mean while they are here handling these events, all will require WP?

2) In exhibition, normally we will have foreign teams coming in to setup their client's booth as the materials are being produce in their own countries. Different country have different techniques and style when it comes to setting up special design booths. Teams are contracted / paid by companies from their home country, do they still require WP?

3) Exhibitors for travel trade shows in Thailand, these are normally hotel sales personnel from other countries promoting their hotel in the exhibition. Do they all require WP to conduct sales or promotions to exhibition visitors here in Thailand during the duration of the trade shows?

4) Also along the line, if a foreign speaker were invited to give a one day talk or a 3-day seminar in front of an audience in Thailand and getting paid by a company from another country. Do the person also require a WP?

I would be surprised if most of the answers would be "Yes" as i believe TAT, TCEB or TICA are not aware of this.

Explorer

[PoorSucker]

I remember that in the aftermaths of the Tsunami, Labour department officers was asking volunteers for WP

So yes, they can be really rabid.

[Soutpeel]

But I wouldnt worry about a 2 week "coordination" trip, that is grey area and difficult to define under Thai law as this would not steal any job opportunity from a Thai.

No its not a grey area and not difficult to define, if you are working in Thailand ,you need a WP...this is why you can get emergency work permits which are valid for two weeks...

[Soutpeel]

sorry OP, don't mean to hijack the thread but i do have questions with regards to the same issue -

1) Since i am in the event management line, and i do have event management companies from abroad that comes to Thailand to manage either conventions, conferences or special events (normally with the help of the local event team). These event management companies are being contracted and fees are being paid back in their own countries by their country companies. So does this mean while they are here handling these events, all will require WP?

2) In exhibition, normally we will have foreign teams coming in to setup their client's booth as the materials are being produce in their own countries. Different country have different techniques and style when it comes to setting up special design booths. Teams are contracted / paid by companies from their home country, do they still require WP?

3) Exhibitors for travel trade shows in Thailand, these are normally hotel sales personnel from other countries promoting their hotel in the exhibition. Do they all require WP to conduct sales or promotions to exhibition visitors here in Thailand during the duration of the trade shows?

4) Also along the line, if a foreign speaker were invited to give a one day talk or a 3-day seminar in front of an audience in Thailand and getting paid by a company from another country. Do the person also require a WP?

I would be surprised if most of the answers would be "Yes" as i believe TAT, TCEB or TICA are not aware of this.

Explorer

And the answer to all your questions..YES a WP is technically required....Seeing as the labour and immigration departments are not fully competant on their own regulations most of the time, I would expect that TAT et al wouldnt have a clue what is required either...

See above "emergency" work permits

[thaiphoon]

Soutpeel: I'm on the same page as you here.